With regard to the graph, it says 'perceived levels' and is dated 2017. If we include 'corruption' in a moral and electoral sense, I think I may be correct when I say that attitudes among the British electorate will have changed since then given how Brexit has played out and the attitudes to it by politicians.
The actual case may be different but I think many people now see the system as corrupt.
If we see corruption in the above terms then there is a case among many voters to see the British political system as corrupt.
From my own point of view, while observing the Brexit saga I have seen some similarities between the UK and my home country. I never thought I would say that and it pains me to do so but those (small) similarities should set alarm bells ringing for people who value democracy.
What are the signs? We do not recognise the referendum result. We wish to over turn it. We use the media to help. We engage in black propaganda. We use agitators to protest on the streets. Etc.
BTW this is still not my return to this conversation so expect no replies. I am just passing an opinion which is my own.
There are plenty of unjustices to be rectified, and that's a struggle that must never end. But I dislike it when people in some of the most democratic and least corrupt countries in the world try to make it sound like they're in a corrupt semi-democracy. That's just what demagogues like Farage and Trump like to hear. I worry that some of the people read things like that start to belive they are in a corrupt pretend demcracy and start thinking we should get a strong man like Putin who can sort things out. What is there to lose, there's no real democracy or freedom anyway?
I don't belive you have much time for Trump, Farage or Putin. I just fear weak souls will read posts like that and forget where we've lived for the last decades.
Fair enough, point taken, though my original comment was not meant to be taken as seriously as you took it.
Judging how seriously a post can be taken can be difficult, and since that post wasn't completely serious it sort of makes my point.
I should have discovered the corruption chart was about percieved corruption and it's a good thng Joshua saw that. Thankfully most people seem to have a realistic percesption of the corruption levels in their own country. This chart of actual corruption levels looks a lot like the first one I posted:
I can vouchsafe that UK adult social care is manifestly corrupt. The regulators such as the Care Quality Commission and Nurse and Midwifery Council are kept deliberately weak and care homes are in cahoots with the local authorities. You only begin to understand how and why it operates as it does when you grasp that dead bodies save the State a fortune, both at local and national level (no longer any need to pay out for pensions and prescriptions.) They really are all in it together.
The elderly in care homes get put on covert end-of-life care without the family being informed. The main method of disposal is 'murder' by dehydration - it's a variation on the notorious Liverpool Care Pathway, where those supposedly at the end of their life are denied food or drink. The reason I put 'murder' in inverted commas is because it's not murder when the State does it. In fact, now as was then, cash-strapped local NHS CCGs simply 'guestimate' or cut corners over how long someone has to live, and set about denying them fluid and subjecting them to wear and tear, so it becomes a self-fulfilled prophecy. If you've been watching the BBC drama series Years and Years, it's a bit like the Erstwhile centres depicted.
Families who suss what is going on - though they don't seem to grasp the implications or why it's happening - get subject to what is known as 'relative retribution' where the care home can bar family relatives from visiting, so they can carry out the task unimpeded. This will be backed up and overseen by Social Services, who are known to be corrupt anyway, and are wholly unaccountable.
A post-mortem won't prove much if dehydration played its part, and anyway they can be rigged too.
My only tip is to arrange Lasting Power of Attorney for Health and Welfare for your parent - you download a form and get the signatures and send it off - because without it the State assumes full control of them, and it can only be granted by your parent when they have mental capacity. One whiff of confusion or dementia and you may not get it, and then you're stuffed.
BTW this is still not my return to this conversation so expect no replies.
Looks very like it to me. You've said that you're finished posting in this thread, and yet you continue to do so but others aren't to reply?
Could you please clarify the following.
Am I free to change my mind?
Am I free to post here if I wish?
"BTW this is still not my return to this conversation so expect no replies. I am just passing an opinion which is my own." means what it says, that I expect that no one will bother replying to my post.
I can vouchsafe that UK adult social care is manifestly corrupt.
If I am allowed to comment on a subject now that it has moved on from the chasing of tails?
My wife works as a carer. She visits elderly and disabled people in their homes to help them live as normal lives as they are able. One important point it that many carers and care companies do not do what they are paid to do. By this I mean if they have a 30 minute time to help some body dress or wash or cook meals or even go to the toilet they go in and out in less than ten minutes. This means that the tax payer is paying for a service which is not being delivered and the person who requires help is not given the help that is needed.
If this was properly watched over then many millions would be saved each year and more importantly people who are vulnerable would get the proper care which the council authorities say they need.
Often my wife gets into trouble for staying the whole time she is meant to and gets paid to. This is not the case with just one company but all over this industry.
Many elderly and vulnerable people are treated like they mean nothing and this is completely wrong. My wife will not rush her duty, and she will spend time talking to the people because on many occasions the people will not speak to any one else all day. This she knows is as just as important as helping them to dress or eat by giving simple interaction.
At a time when money is not available, I would think that this would be tackled. As far as I am concerned if some one or some business is taking money for providing a service that they really do not (charging for two hours of care each day but actually doing only less than half of that) then this is corruption?
Number 24. Personally I would not agree with some of the statistics on the last map because I think they are wrong in not showing the true scale of corruption in certain countries that feature on it. But I suppose it is how the people who made it define corruption. Is it as I said in my other post or is it corruption in the way of taking bribes, rigging elections, political violence?
it's corruption in the economic sense, usually taking bribes.
If the chart that you show was actually true then Switzerland would be a great fat red colour - the FIFA headquarters are there and a more corrupt organisation would be very hard to find.
Charts are useless, I can find opposite results in seconds on the internet on any subject - the results of each chart are carefully manipulated according to who paid for the survey.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
it's corruption in the economic sense, usually taking bribes.
If the chart that you show was actually true then Switzerland would be a great fat red colour - the FIFA headquarters are there and a more corrupt organisation would be very hard to find.
Charts are useless, I can find opposite results in seconds on the internet on any subject - the results of each chart are carefully manipulated according to who paid for the survey.
Are you suggesting FIFA is a very large part of Switzerland's economy? Or that FIFA makes up much of the administration, state and private, in that country? If not that's not that's not very relevant or true statement you just made.
A good chart is based on verifiable fact and presented in a clear way. The book "Factfullnes" by Hans Rosling is an excelent example of good charts. It uses good and relevant charts to show how the world is and how it's developing - hightly recomeded!
"BTW this is still not my return to this conversation so expect no replies. I am just passing an opinion which is my own." means what it says, that I expect that no one will bother replying to my post.
Just to be clear, I have no intention of posting further on this thread so you have no need to 'worry'. I am not going to engage in personal messages or 'arguments' either.
So, I think clarity from you is more pressing than clarity from me. Yes, of course you are free to change your mind and post here but posting on this thread or any other is not on your own personal rules.
Please use PMs if you must continue down this track, to avoid further derailing the thread.
it's corruption in the economic sense, usually taking bribes.
If the chart that you show was actually true then Switzerland would be a great fat red colour - the FIFA headquarters are there and a more corrupt organisation would be very hard to find.
Charts are useless, I can find opposite results in seconds on the internet on any subject - the results of each chart are carefully manipulated according to who paid for the survey.
Are you suggesting FIFA is a very large part of Switzerland's economy? Or that FIFA makes up much of the administration, state and private, in that country? If not that's not that's not very relevant or true statement you just made.
A good chart is based on verifiable fact and presented in a clear way. The book "Factfullnes" by Hans Rosling is an excelent example of good charts. It uses good and relevant charts to show how the world is and how it's developing - hightly recomeded!
FIFA represents 211 countries and over half the global population (3.5 billion people) watched the 2018 World Cup. It had an income of $6 billion in 2018. The organisation has been riddled by corruption for years, over $100 million of bribes have been uncovered. David Zirin has been quoted as saying “ that corruption is endemic to the FIFA leadership and should be abolished.
So, yes, I am saying that FIFA is a large enough part of the Swiss economy especially as it directly effects billions of fans of football.
You can’t pick and choose which organisation is worthy of inclusion, it is either corrupt or not. Corruption is corruption, no matter what sums of money are involved, from the politician fiddling his expenses to billionaire businessmen shafting employees and suppliers by going into administration and washing their hands of responsibility.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Ok, I'll spell it out: The UK has a population of about 66m. Why should the PMs (and their entourages) be restricted to only those who have attended Eton/Oxford etc, ie about 0.1% of the population? (Cameron, Johnson, May)
John Major wasn't an oxbridge man, there are loads of tories who aren't. Just for balance Blair was Oxford educated.
I can vouchsafe that UK adult social care is manifestly corrupt.
If I am allowed to comment on a subject now that it has moved on from the chasing of tails?
My wife works as a carer. She visits elderly and disabled people in their homes to help them live as normal lives as they are able. One important point it that many carers and care companies do not do what they are paid to do. By this I mean if they have a 30 minute time to help some body dress or wash or cook meals or even go to the toilet they go in and out in less than ten minutes. This means that the tax payer is paying for a service which is not being delivered and the person who requires help is not given the help that is needed.
If this was properly watched over then many millions would be saved each year and more importantly people who are vulnerable would get the proper care which the council authorities say they need.
Often my wife gets into trouble for staying the whole time she is meant to and gets paid to. This is not the case with just one company but all over this industry.
Many elderly and vulnerable people are treated like they mean nothing and this is completely wrong. My wife will not rush her duty, and she will spend time talking to the people because on many occasions the people will not speak to any one else all day. This she knows is as just as important as helping them to dress or eat by giving simple interaction.
At a time when money is not available, I would think that this would be tackled. As far as I am concerned if some one or some business is taking money for providing a service that they really do not (charging for two hours of care each day but actually doing only less than half of that) then this is corruption?
Well, that's outsourcing. It's a complete rip-off, in all walks of life.
Local authorities watch as home care services go to the wall, because then they can find an excuse to get the person into a care home, where they can control the situation.
That also means using the sale of the home to pay/fund their dodgy care homes! Anyone who does that will find they are subsidising the poorer, Council-funded residents, as the Council will be paying several hundred pounds a week less than those who are self-funded.
But you'd be misguided to think that anyone self-funding gets better treatment. If anything the Council will hate and despise such uppity families, who maybe have the funds to sue the care home. What's more, if they do that they can shut the care home down, because the care home will be forking out for its own legal fees, whereas Council-funded residents will instead be suing the Council. You'd think, well, that's not good for the Council, is it? But in fact the Council can dine out on such legal action by relatives, paying the best lawyers to eke out the legal battle to the costly detriment of the family, with a view to bankrupting them and what's more, if the Council loses, it doesn't really lose, because it simply gets taxpayers to fork out for costs and damages!
With the elderly being made part of the care home system, basically they're not paying fees rather a tax, and it goes on for a couple of years or so, then it's curtains. Seems they get the dehydration treatment, which families won't be informed about. As it happens we twigged what was going on and went in to give our mother drink, but both care homes and the corrupt Surrey Social Services were passive aggressively determined that we were going to give up our lives to do that while all our appeals to the care homes on this issue fell on deaf ears. Makes you proud to be British, doesn't it.
So the next PM will be Jeremy Hunt or Boris Johnson. I understand Hunt is a remainer and Johnson is very much a Brexiter. While Hunt seems more "Prime Ministerial" and dignified a lot has to change for him to win.
As far as I understand, Hunt is far off from being a Remainer.
His position about the Brexit deadline is a bit softer, but he wants to leave the EU as well - with or without a deal.
The last runner who was supporting a more moderate (may I say realistic) and less radical position - was Rory Stewart
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Her campaigned for Remain in 2016, at least Wikipedia (the modern Oracle of Delphi) says so. But i I have to admit I'm not very well orientated about British politicians.
Comments
The actual case may be different but I think many people now see the system as corrupt.
Corrupt synonyms: dishonest, dishonourable, unscrupulous, unprincipled, amoral, untrustworthy, underhand, deceitful, double-dealing, disreputable, discreditable, shameful, scandalous.
If we see corruption in the above terms then there is a case among many voters to see the British political system as corrupt.
From my own point of view, while observing the Brexit saga I have seen some similarities between the UK and my home country. I never thought I would say that and it pains me to do so but those (small) similarities should set alarm bells ringing for people who value democracy.
What are the signs? We do not recognise the referendum result. We wish to over turn it. We use the media to help. We engage in black propaganda. We use agitators to protest on the streets. Etc.
BTW this is still not my return to this conversation so expect no replies. I am just passing an opinion which is my own.
Add Matteo Salvini to that list.. X-(
Looks very like it to me. You've said that you're finished posting in this thread, and yet you continue to do so but others aren't to reply?
Judging how seriously a post can be taken can be difficult, and since that post wasn't completely serious it sort of makes my point.
I should have discovered the corruption chart was about percieved corruption and it's a good thng Joshua saw that. Thankfully most people seem to have a realistic percesption of the corruption levels in their own country. This chart of actual corruption levels looks a lot like the first one I posted:
The elderly in care homes get put on covert end-of-life care without the family being informed. The main method of disposal is 'murder' by dehydration - it's a variation on the notorious Liverpool Care Pathway, where those supposedly at the end of their life are denied food or drink. The reason I put 'murder' in inverted commas is because it's not murder when the State does it. In fact, now as was then, cash-strapped local NHS CCGs simply 'guestimate' or cut corners over how long someone has to live, and set about denying them fluid and subjecting them to wear and tear, so it becomes a self-fulfilled prophecy. If you've been watching the BBC drama series Years and Years, it's a bit like the Erstwhile centres depicted.
Families who suss what is going on - though they don't seem to grasp the implications or why it's happening - get subject to what is known as 'relative retribution' where the care home can bar family relatives from visiting, so they can carry out the task unimpeded. This will be backed up and overseen by Social Services, who are known to be corrupt anyway, and are wholly unaccountable.
A post-mortem won't prove much if dehydration played its part, and anyway they can be rigged too.
My only tip is to arrange Lasting Power of Attorney for Health and Welfare for your parent - you download a form and get the signatures and send it off - because without it the State assumes full control of them, and it can only be granted by your parent when they have mental capacity. One whiff of confusion or dementia and you may not get it, and then you're stuffed.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Could you please clarify the following.
Am I free to change my mind?
Am I free to post here if I wish?
"BTW this is still not my return to this conversation so expect no replies. I am just passing an opinion which is my own." means what it says, that I expect that no one will bother replying to my post.
See the first sentence of post 1305.
If I am allowed to comment on a subject now that it has moved on from the chasing of tails?
My wife works as a carer. She visits elderly and disabled people in their homes to help them live as normal lives as they are able. One important point it that many carers and care companies do not do what they are paid to do. By this I mean if they have a 30 minute time to help some body dress or wash or cook meals or even go to the toilet they go in and out in less than ten minutes. This means that the tax payer is paying for a service which is not being delivered and the person who requires help is not given the help that is needed.
If this was properly watched over then many millions would be saved each year and more importantly people who are vulnerable would get the proper care which the council authorities say they need.
Often my wife gets into trouble for staying the whole time she is meant to and gets paid to. This is not the case with just one company but all over this industry.
Many elderly and vulnerable people are treated like they mean nothing and this is completely wrong. My wife will not rush her duty, and she will spend time talking to the people because on many occasions the people will not speak to any one else all day. This she knows is as just as important as helping them to dress or eat by giving simple interaction.
At a time when money is not available, I would think that this would be tackled. As far as I am concerned if some one or some business is taking money for providing a service that they really do not (charging for two hours of care each day but actually doing only less than half of that) then this is corruption?
If the chart that you show was actually true then Switzerland would be a great fat red colour - the FIFA headquarters are there and a more corrupt organisation would be very hard to find.
Charts are useless, I can find opposite results in seconds on the internet on any subject - the results of each chart are carefully manipulated according to who paid for the survey.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Are you suggesting FIFA is a very large part of Switzerland's economy? Or that FIFA makes up much of the administration, state and private, in that country? If not that's not that's not very relevant or true statement you just made.
A good chart is based on verifiable fact and presented in a clear way. The book "Factfullnes" by Hans Rosling is an excelent example of good charts. It uses good and relevant charts to show how the world is and how it's developing - hightly recomeded!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Factfulness-Reasons-Wrong-Things-Better/dp/1473637465
You can't have it both ways, Joshua:
So, I think clarity from you is more pressing than clarity from me. Yes, of course you are free to change your mind and post here but posting on this thread or any other is not on your own personal rules.
Please use PMs if you must continue down this track, to avoid further derailing the thread.
FIFA represents 211 countries and over half the global population (3.5 billion people) watched the 2018 World Cup. It had an income of $6 billion in 2018. The organisation has been riddled by corruption for years, over $100 million of bribes have been uncovered. David Zirin has been quoted as saying “ that corruption is endemic to the FIFA leadership and should be abolished.
So, yes, I am saying that FIFA is a large enough part of the Swiss economy especially as it directly effects billions of fans of football.
You can’t pick and choose which organisation is worthy of inclusion, it is either corrupt or not. Corruption is corruption, no matter what sums of money are involved, from the politician fiddling his expenses to billionaire businessmen shafting employees and suppliers by going into administration and washing their hands of responsibility.
Well, that's outsourcing. It's a complete rip-off, in all walks of life.
Local authorities watch as home care services go to the wall, because then they can find an excuse to get the person into a care home, where they can control the situation.
That also means using the sale of the home to pay/fund their dodgy care homes! Anyone who does that will find they are subsidising the poorer, Council-funded residents, as the Council will be paying several hundred pounds a week less than those who are self-funded.
But you'd be misguided to think that anyone self-funding gets better treatment. If anything the Council will hate and despise such uppity families, who maybe have the funds to sue the care home. What's more, if they do that they can shut the care home down, because the care home will be forking out for its own legal fees, whereas Council-funded residents will instead be suing the Council. You'd think, well, that's not good for the Council, is it? But in fact the Council can dine out on such legal action by relatives, paying the best lawyers to eke out the legal battle to the costly detriment of the family, with a view to bankrupting them and what's more, if the Council loses, it doesn't really lose, because it simply gets taxpayers to fork out for costs and damages!
With the elderly being made part of the care home system, basically they're not paying fees rather a tax, and it goes on for a couple of years or so, then it's curtains. Seems they get the dehydration treatment, which families won't be informed about. As it happens we twigged what was going on and went in to give our mother drink, but both care homes and the corrupt Surrey Social Services were passive aggressively determined that we were going to give up our lives to do that while all our appeals to the care homes on this issue fell on deaf ears. Makes you proud to be British, doesn't it.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
His position about the Brexit deadline is a bit softer, but he wants to leave the EU as well - with or without a deal.
The last runner who was supporting a more moderate (may I say realistic) and less radical position - was Rory Stewart
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
"I should like to know what happened that night... but somehow, I don't think you would tell me."
#BigLittleTories
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Red wine with sofas... That should have told us something.