Is You Only Live Twice non-canon?

MilleniumForce

Despite the very thin continuity between the films, the biggest error was the whole YOLT/OHMSS situation. Of course, Bond not recognising Blofeld and Blofeld not recognising Bond in OHMSS, the fact the safe cracker is much smaller in YOLT compared to the big hunk of machinery in OHMSS etc. So, this begs the question: Is YOLT non-canon?

Officially, as far as it was concerned pre - Craig, then I believe yes, YOLT was non - canon. There are several pieces of evidence to support this:

- OHMSS is clearly canon, as its one of the few films referenced later on - in DAF, TSWLM, FYEO, LTK and TWINE

- When Bond goes through the things from his past missions, he looks at items from DN, FRWL and TB. Bond doesn't look at anything from YOLT or GF, but GF is referenced with the janitor whistling. Obviously, the past films were referenced to make sure people understood it was the same character, so why was YOLT not referenced? I think because YOLT was supposed to be ignored.

Anyone else think YOLT is non - canon?

superado

Some scenes from YOLT were shown in the hourglass imagery of the OHMSS title sequence.

Matt S

Calling him Bind and Nond in the same post? With over 1,000 posts on this site one would think you'd know the character's name by now.

MilleniumForce

Matt S wrote:

Calling him Bind and Nond in the same post? With over 1,000 posts on this site one would think you'd know the character's name by now.

Hmmm, you were saying? I generally type very fast on an iPad keyboard, so I often spell stuff wrong. I wish it didn't spell another word though, because then it would automatically change the word for me!

MilleniumForce

superado wrote:

Some scenes from YOLT were shown in the hourglass imagery of the OHMSS title sequence.

That's the only thing that connects the two. I can't remember, but isn't the onky shot the one of the ninja walking towards the camera? I'm probably wrong though.

Gassy Man

Oddly enough, Diamonds are Forever opens in Japan, which doesn't make much sense after the events of the previous film. But it does makes sense if you're supposed to believe that On Her Majesty's Secret Service never happened.

In answer to the original question, there's no reason to believe it is not canon. Remember, Bond marginally was in disguise as Bray, silly as it sounds. The safecracker being smaller doesn't mean anything -- headphones today are notably more bulky than they were two decades ago and the safecracker was part of the larger photocopier.

superado

MilleniumForce wrote:

superado wrote:

Some scenes from YOLT were shown in the hourglass imagery of the OHMSS title sequence.

That's the only thing that connects the two. I can't remember, but isn't the onky shot the one of the ninja walking towards the camera? I'm probably wrong though.

It actually showed Aki, Kissy and the Ninja swordsman.

Thunderpussy

And what a threesome that was

Dutchfinger

MilleniumForce wrote:

- OHMSS is clearly canon, as its one of the few films referenced later on - in DAF, TSWLM, FYEO, LTK and TWINE

Nothing of OHMSS is mentioned in DAF! (No Tracy, No Irma Bunt) One of the reasons I don't really like that film. Could have been an epic follow up! It's starts out in Japan, so if you're sceptical it could be seen as a direct follow up to YOLT!

Matt S

MilleniumForce wrote:

Matt S wrote:

Calling him Bind and Nond in the same post? With over 1,000 posts on this site one would think you'd know the character's name by now.

Hmmm, you were saying? I generally type very fast on an iPad keyboard, so I often spell stuff wrong. I wish it didn't spell another word though, because then it would automatically change the word for me!

Why are you in such a rush? It's just a little strange that you consistently spell Bond's name wrong...

Barbel

So does TP, but we only pull his leg about it.

Thunderpussy

I too occasionally write Bind. With ! For L or K , I usually catch them before posting
but the odd one does get through.

superado

Thunderpussy wrote:

And what a threesome that was

They hated him, he was so ninja he was done and gone without them knowing )

superado

As for continuity issues and the biggest one, Blofeld not recognizing Bond... in the earliest drafts of the script there were variations of Bond's appearance being drastically changed to explain for the actor change, such as him getting plastic surgery after a car accident. Then there was a version of the script that had him dramatically changing his appearance as Hilary Bray that including dyeing his head hair, facial hair and CHEST hair red! Of course, all of that was eventually dropped, though a thinly disguised Bond meeting Blofeld was retained, resulting in the largest continuity error of the series. The question remains though why that was allowed to happen.

heartbroken_mr_drax

superado wrote:

As for continuity issues and the biggest one, Blofeld not recognizing Bond... in the earliest drafts of the script there were variations of Bond's appearance being drastically changed to explain for the actor change, such as him getting plastic surgery after a car accident. Then there was a version of the script that had him dramatically changing his appearance as Hilary Bray that including dyeing his head hair, facial hair and CHEST hair red! Of course, all of that was eventually dropped, though a thinly disguised Bond meeting Blofeld was retained, resulting in the largest continuity error of the series. The question remains though why that was allowed to happen.

United Artists? DAF just seems as if it's running from everything before it...

superado

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

superado wrote:

As for continuity issues and the biggest one, Blofeld not recognizing Bond... in the earliest drafts of the script there were variations of Bond's appearance being drastically changed to explain for the actor change, such as him getting plastic surgery after a car accident. Then there was a version of the script that had him dramatically changing his appearance as Hilary Bray that including dyeing his head hair, facial hair and CHEST hair red! Of course, all of that was eventually dropped, though a thinly disguised Bond meeting Blofeld was retained, resulting in the largest continuity error of the series. The question remains though why that was allowed to happen.

United Artists? DAF just seems as if it's running from everything before it...

Yes, in great part it was United Artists, but I think a decision agreed upon by all involved. DAF was mostly about money and bending everything backwards just to have the huge draw of a Connery return; a straight-out continuity from OHMSS would not have made it conducive for Connery's Bond at that point in time and for the matter, nothing was sacred for that end; if they came to the conclusion that M and Q in drag having an all out queen-cat fight with Blofeld in drag would have been good for the movie, we would have seen that too.

caractacus potts

more like OHMSS was non-canon, at least while they were making DaF
after that OHMSS seems to be the only film, out of all of them, that is canon
until the Craig era, how many specific references are there to previous films?

but maybe YOLT is non-canonical, otherwise Bond would have been experiencing major deja vu when Stromberg stole those two subs and tried to start WWIII

Barbel

caractacus potts wrote:

until the Craig era, how many specific references are there to previous films?

Quite a few- here's a partial list:

The first references to a previous Bond film occur, naturally enough, in FRWL: Kronsteen tells Blofeld that SPECTRE could gain revenge for the death of Dr No since the British will use James Bond. Not long afterwards, Sylvia mentions that Bond went off to Jamaica six months earlier.

While not specific, the stewardess on Goldfinger’s plane regrets the damage to Bond’s briefcase (as issued in FRWL) and Bond comments to Leiter about an experience in Jamaica (where they met in DN).

OHMSS has most noticeably the office scene where 007 empties his drawer, coming across Honey’s belt & knife, Grant’s watch, and the breather from TB.

In TMWTGG, JW Pepper spots Bond and a few notes from the LALD theme play as he tries to remember where he knows him from (later, it does occur to him).

In TSWLM, Anya refers to Bond’s wife being killed (he cuts her off quickly).

FYEO starts with Bond visiting Tracy’s grave, the year of her death being 1969 (OHMSS). He then meets a bald man wearing a neck brace, who is sitting in a wheelchair while stroking a white cat. This character's name isn't mentioned, of course... ( but I don't think it's Oberhauser).

Bond's marriage is alluded to in LTK, by Leiter to his bride.

In DAD Bond comes across various gadgets from older stories (Klebb's shoe, the TB jetpack, etc) in Q's workshop.

MilleniumForce

There's also the deleted scene in AVTAK with Grant's watch and the acid pen, which presumably is supposed to be the one from Octopussy.

Mr Snow

superado wrote:

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

superado wrote:

As for continuity issues and the biggest one, Blofeld not recognizing Bond... in the earliest drafts of the script there were variations of Bond's appearance being drastically changed to explain for the actor change, such as him getting plastic surgery after a car accident. Then there was a version of the script that had him dramatically changing his appearance as Hilary Bray that including dyeing his head hair, facial hair and CHEST hair red! Of course, all of that was eventually dropped, though a thinly disguised Bond meeting Blofeld was retained, resulting in the largest continuity error of the series. The question remains though why that was allowed to happen.

United Artists? DAF just seems as if it's running from everything before it...

Yes, in great part it was United Artists, but I think a decision agreed upon by all involved. DAF was mostly about money and bending everything backwards just to have the huge draw of a Connery return; a straight-out continuity from OHMSS would not have made it conducive for Connery's Bond at that point in time and for the matter, nothing was sacred for that end; if they came to the conclusion that M and Q in drag having an all out queen-cat fight with Blofeld in drag would have been good for the movie, we would have seen that too.

Eddie Izzard would have been in seventh heaven had that occurred

Continuity wise, I'm not surprised Bond and Blofeld didn't recognise each other as Bond was Japanese. Oh wait, by the time they did bump in to each other Bond was Bond and not Bondson 8-)

Agent Lee

The problem with conversations like this (which isn't to say that I haven't had them myself, nor is it to say that I don't enjoy them) is that we're imposing a more current idea of cinematic canon onto an era where continuity from film to film in any given series was much looser.

Barbel

Yup, perfectly true. Fun, though, isn't it? )

Thunderpussy

I'd like to complain about Casablanca, it's in B&W ( very bad these days) too much use of sets, In fact I
Think it may have been filmed in a studio. Some of the German characters are very much stereotypes.

It's fun to Judge older movies by today's standards ) no CGI in Casablanca either.

( This is a Joke, by the way )