To be honest, the idea that Bond fans shouldn't or wouldn't criticize or even dislike some aspects of the films smacks of "Love it or leave it" tribalism.
I'm not a fanboy and I don't do tribalism. I don't believe in patriotism and I have never rooted for a sports team. Nor do I make it a habit to suspend my critical faculties just because I have a fondness for something.
And for the record, I firmly believe in the value and necessity of critics. To quote A.O. Scott, chief film critic for The New York Times, "Criticism, far from sapping the vitality of art, is instead what supplies its lifeblood... not an enemy from which art must be defended, but rather another name — the proper name — for the defense of art itself.”
I'm a Bond fanboy proud and true, though being one or not has no bearing on having the faculty for proper criticism and I for one do not allow anyone else sway me with my insights about Bond unless they are reasonably compelling.
On the other hand, I am a sports fan particularly for the regional, tribal aspect of it because it provides the only dimension for me to bond with so many strangers in my greater metropolitan area with whom I would otherwise share no common ground. To dismiss that is mere conceit and elitism. What brings each one of us to this forum? Perhaps there are "Harry Potter Only" fans who come here to pick a fight with Bond fans, but for the most part the regulars here share a more than casual appreciation for Bond while enjoying a great diversity in every conceivable Bond minutiae that might exist.
To get back on track about the current pulse on the fandom, let me quote Thomas Edison: “Restlessness is discontent — and discontent is the first necessity of progress.”
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
For my own part, I am indeed a fanboy, I do believe in patriotism and happily root for my St. Louis Cardindals baseball team...and I have zero problem disregarding critics and criticizing their criticisms---particularly with regard to Bond, and particularly when the critics in question come to fill their blank page already disliking James Bond films, as that kind of baggage makes for boring reading Judge a film on its merits and deficiencies, but don't go to a Chinese restaurant and complain when the quisine is Asian, and not Italian
As for the relative increase of negativity: I agree it's happening...and regardless of whether or not it's because it's trendy, or because films just aren't as good as they used to be, IMO it's a worthy conversation {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The series is taken too seriously by many on here. Sure, there are a few things that grate with me, some characters I hate (Nik-Nak being one) and I absolutely loathe the editing in QOS but over all the series is brilliant fun but I lean towards the early ones as being my favourite. I have watched them all again over the last year and my opinions of the Roger Moore movies have mellowed a lot and I now enjoy them for what they are. I think everyone just needs to sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
The series is taken too seriously by many on here. Sure, there are a few things that grate with me, some characters I hate (Nik-Nak being one) and I absolutely loathe the editing in QOS but over all the series is brilliant fun but I lean towards the early ones as being my favourite. I have watched them all again over the last year and my opinions of the Roger Moore movies have mellowed a lot and I now enjoy them for what they are. I think everyone just needs to sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking.
But what's the point of this whole site if we don't examine the films closely and think about them? If the Bond series is merely just something fun for us to enjoy, we're the same as the average movie-goer who isn't going to spend time looking for other Bond fans to discuss the films. If we just need to "sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking", then let's ask the moderators to close this thread, and to close the site!
The biggest fans are usually also the biggest critics. Most people don't watch a movie 761 times (a year) so they do not notice every little bit that might bother someone who does. Let’s face it, we are a very small group. Most people watch a movie once or twice and remember On Her Majesty’s Secret Service because it is that movie with Timothy Lazenby where Ed Stratocaster Blowfield nukes Fort Knox.
I do think there is a big difference between saying that a certain movie isn't your favourite and what you don't like about it and having a reasonable discussion about it with other fans and being blatantly dismissive about someone else's opinion. That is why I never understand the sometimes fierce discussions on this forums about something that, when you look at it, boils down to nothing more than different opinions about something that, in the grand scheme of things, doesn’t matter at all.
There are movies that I like less than others, there are Bonds I like better than others but for each and every one of us there is something about this movie/book series that unites us as that 0.001% of people that take the time to discuss the series among each other.
Now, let’s all join hands, sing Goldfinger from the top of our lungs and agree that Roger Moore is the only real James Bond and that Goldfinger is overrated. )
I agree that GF is overrated )
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
The series is taken too seriously by many on here. Sure, there are a few things that grate with me, some characters I hate (Nik-Nak being one) and I absolutely loathe the editing in QOS but over all the series is brilliant fun but I lean towards the early ones as being my favourite. I have watched them all again over the last year and my opinions of the Roger Moore movies have mellowed a lot and I now enjoy them for what they are. I think everyone just needs to sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking.
But what's the point of this whole site if we don't examine the films closely and think about them? If the Bond series is merely just something fun for us to enjoy, we're the same as the average movie-goer who isn't going to spend time looking for other Bond fans to discuss the films. If we just need to "sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking", then let's ask the moderators to close this thread, and to close the site!
Loyalty is an odd phenomenon in this context. I'm confused when reasoned argument is seen as 'dissing ' I'm a fanboy but feel that many of the films are actually poor, both as Bond films and as films in general. I find it fascinating to really dig into what works for me and why. Personal slurs and rudness should not be tolerated in any reasonable discussion.. It's precisely because I'm a fan that it matters more than it should.i have never bought into 'it's only a Bond film'. If that's all you expect and are happy with it then good for you,but probably makes for dull discussion where we all agree with how fab things are.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Nothing wrong with a review, -{ perhaps it's more of a low after the high of a new release ?
Causing many to be more reflective , On what has gone before ?
Although I do think it's easy to spot a review filled with, kindness and respect of the series, to
One from someone who , doesn't care very much about the films. I suspect, I'm not the only one
who when reviewing a Bond, tries not to offend the many fans the film will have. As Zaphoid99
Pointed out , no slurs or rudeness is needed.
( Odd coming from him, the grumpy old git ) only Joking Zaps, couldn't resist. -{
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Nothing wrong with a review, -{ perhaps it's more of a low after the high of a new release ?
Causing many to be more reflective , On what has gone before ?
Although I do think it's easy to spot a review filled with, kindness and respect of the series, to
One from someone who , doesn't care very much about the films. I suspect, I'm not the only one
who when reviewing a Bond, tries not to offend the many fans the film will have. As Zaphoid99
Pointed out , no slurs or rudeness is needed.
( Odd coming from him, the grumpy old git ) only Joking Zaps, couldn't resist. -{
No offence taken at all dear chap. I always enjoy what you have to say.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
I think the key, root word is "reason" as in "reasoned" and "reasonable" so that any discussion involves thoughtful engagement and along with that, ideally, comes respect and decorum. The clear opposite of that is what we'd consider as trolling, or drive-by opinion posts that offer nothing reasonable to back them up. I do see that here from time to time but thankfully it's weeded out through fair and proper discourse or by means of astute moderating :007) That is why I love this site, compared to other Bond boards in which the powers that be nurture their sacred cows with an intolerance to opposing opinions no matter how reasoned you try to approach it.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
I think the key, root word is "reason" as in "reasoned" and "reasonable" so that any discussion involves thoughtful engagement and along with that, ideally, comes respect and decorum. The clear opposite of that is what we'd consider as trolling, or drive-by opinion posts that offer nothing reasonable to back them up. I do see that here from time to time but thankfully it's weeded out through fair and proper discourse or by means of astute moderating :007) That is why I love this site, compared to other Bond boards in which the powers that be nurture their sacred cows with an intolerance to opposing opinions no matter how reasoned you try to approach it.
I think Barbel may hold the record for the quickest extraction of a troll. I remember one guy
Only had ( I think ) two posts, and he was out the door. !
" I do so love Scottish, efficiency "
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
The series is taken too seriously by many on here. Sure, there are a few things that grate with me, some characters I hate (Nik-Nak being one) and I absolutely loathe the editing in QOS but over all the series is brilliant fun but I lean towards the early ones as being my favourite. I have watched them all again over the last year and my opinions of the Roger Moore movies have mellowed a lot and I now enjoy them for what they are. I think everyone just needs to sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking.
But what's the point of this whole site if we don't examine the films closely and think about them? If the Bond series is merely just something fun for us to enjoy, we're the same as the average movie-goer who isn't going to spend time looking for other Bond fans to discuss the films. If we just need to "sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking", then let's ask the moderators to close this thread, and to close the site!
Nothing wrong in discussing the movies as myself and hundreds of others do on here. I was highlighting the lengths that some posters dissect the movies when clearly they are just made to entertain. It's great fun to point out mistakes, plot errors and the like but some posters dig far too deep when the movies are for escapism. Just enjoy them for what they are - and I still hate Nik-Nak who is the worst character ever to adorn the hallowed canon
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Not so much in support of Nick-Nack , but he is an odd character and in my opinion
a very Fleming like character. Although I do agree useless as a Henchman, but I think
He's more in the vein of Scarpine or Elvis. A Personal assistant ( evil obviously ) but
Happier taking notes and overseeing, their bosses plan ?
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Comments
I'm a Bond fanboy proud and true, though being one or not has no bearing on having the faculty for proper criticism and I for one do not allow anyone else sway me with my insights about Bond unless they are reasonably compelling.
On the other hand, I am a sports fan particularly for the regional, tribal aspect of it because it provides the only dimension for me to bond with so many strangers in my greater metropolitan area with whom I would otherwise share no common ground. To dismiss that is mere conceit and elitism. What brings each one of us to this forum? Perhaps there are "Harry Potter Only" fans who come here to pick a fight with Bond fans, but for the most part the regulars here share a more than casual appreciation for Bond while enjoying a great diversity in every conceivable Bond minutiae that might exist.
To get back on track about the current pulse on the fandom, let me quote Thomas Edison:
“Restlessness is discontent — and discontent is the first necessity of progress.”
As for the relative increase of negativity: I agree it's happening...and regardless of whether or not it's because it's trendy, or because films just aren't as good as they used to be, IMO it's a worthy conversation {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
But what's the point of this whole site if we don't examine the films closely and think about them? If the Bond series is merely just something fun for us to enjoy, we're the same as the average movie-goer who isn't going to spend time looking for other Bond fans to discuss the films. If we just need to "sit back and chill out and watch them without all the nit-picking", then let's ask the moderators to close this thread, and to close the site!
I agree that GF is overrated
Loyalty is an odd phenomenon in this context. I'm confused when reasoned argument is seen as 'dissing ' I'm a fanboy but feel that many of the films are actually poor, both as Bond films and as films in general. I find it fascinating to really dig into what works for me and why. Personal slurs and rudness should not be tolerated in any reasonable discussion.. It's precisely because I'm a fan that it matters more than it should.i have never bought into 'it's only a Bond film'. If that's all you expect and are happy with it then good for you,but probably makes for dull discussion where we all agree with how fab things are.
Causing many to be more reflective , On what has gone before ?
Although I do think it's easy to spot a review filled with, kindness and respect of the series, to
One from someone who , doesn't care very much about the films. I suspect, I'm not the only one
who when reviewing a Bond, tries not to offend the many fans the film will have. As Zaphoid99
Pointed out , no slurs or rudeness is needed.
( Odd coming from him, the grumpy old git )
No offence taken at all dear chap. I always enjoy what you have to say.
Well said, superado, and thank you.
Only had ( I think ) two posts, and he was out the door. !
" I do so love Scottish, efficiency "
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I sincerely hope you mean to 'ban you'
Nothing wrong in discussing the movies as myself and hundreds of others do on here. I was highlighting the lengths that some posters dissect the movies when clearly they are just made to entertain. It's great fun to point out mistakes, plot errors and the like but some posters dig far too deep when the movies are for escapism. Just enjoy them for what they are - and I still hate Nik-Nak who is the worst character ever to adorn the hallowed canon
a very Fleming like character. Although I do agree useless as a Henchman, but I think
He's more in the vein of Scarpine or Elvis. A Personal assistant ( evil obviously ) but
Happier taking notes and overseeing, their bosses plan ?
And, of course, operating his very own haunted house.
"- That is something to be afraid of."