Bond,Depression, and why i love Skyfall
walther p99
NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
Just read a very interesting article in The Inquirer about Bond and depression and how a few psychologists are writing a book called "License to Live: James Bond's trade secrets to living well with depression". I used to suffer from a heavy depression a few years back that stemmed from college, work, and my personal life, all the usual suspects. I wasn't suicidal or anything but everything just turned gray, there was no color to life anymore, and I lost any vigor that I had. Then Skyfall happened. and I saw for the first time James Bond in a rut similar to my own (without scorpions or getting shot). Where he was physically and mentally broken, where he to seemed to have lost any vigor for life. And I never identified more the character. Watching Jame's Bond pull himself together after falling into a rut was pretty cathartic for me. It really is to me what makes Bond, or any hero for that matter, truly great. And beyond everything else I love about that film its Bond's personal journey after failure that makes it my favorite Bond film. For someone like myself who was depressed watching Skyfall was really comforting and also motivating to pull myself back together much like Bond did. Anyway, that article got my interested in your thoughts on Bond and Mental Illness?
Comments
Suffered from clinical depression but at times, I can feel really down. ( At the moment I feel, I have the
Weight of the world on my shoulders, but that's my cross to bear at the moment )
One of the most enduring ideas in Fleming's Books was how Bond was a man. With many Inner
Demons. Problems both psychological and physical at times, his use of drugs, from alcohol and
Cigarettes, to the many others he'd take go keep him awake or less tired.
So Bond is not a Superman but a flawed man with all the same weaknesses of the rest of us, but
As stated the joy of the novels is how against these odds. Bond can recover, finding the Inner resolve
To carry on.
In Skyfall, perhaps for the first time Bond's fragility is openly on show, he's been hurt, weakened, sick.
Yet, can still strive to overcome his many problems to win through.
I always remember in Goldfinger ( book) Bond reflect the on the suddenness of death, one moment
You are full of life, then a second later ....... Nothing. Even Fleming shows Bond's complete collapse
A couple of times, in YOLT after Tracy's death he shows Bond as a broken man, failing on missions,
So M sends him on a win or lose mission. Such would either kill or cure Bond. In TMWTGG after Bond
Has been brainwashed, once again the old sea dog, sends Bond out on a "kill or cure" mission, perhaps
Knowing that Bond's inner resolve and determination would pull him through in the end.
Having said that - without going into details etc - I have had my own run ins with stress, anxiety and depression. - All through the experiences of family, close friends as well as myself, directly. It's impossible to compare experiences with one another, we all deal with things in different ways and at different levels. More so though, it can be dangerous to use fictional characters as a source of support or guidance. (I realise and appreciate that is not what Walther is saying above. He took his own inspiration.) In Skyfall we learn Bond has been assessed, but its clear from what Silva says later he was not fit to do his job on either a physical, mental or psychological level. - We also don't know what he went through between M-Manf's passing, and the final scenes when he is back on the job seemingly at the top of his game again. Its one of the things that made me a bit uneasy when I first saw the film was going into this territory, without giving a sense of clarity on the outcome.
When I was 13, I found Star Trek (III - The Search For Spock specifically.) It gave me an escape from something I really had a tough time trying to deal with, and had been for almost a year at that point. It was only last year (I'm now 41) I came face to face with the fact that I still had not dealt with a lot of personal fallout from that matter all those years ago. Nothing more dangerous than the debris we carry around in our heads.
Taking inspiration from our fictional heros is a good thing. I know, I have had a few of them including Bond himself for almost 30 years! But in the end unlike Bond who tries to go it alone and isolate himself, reaching out to friends, family and the medical professionals who can really help is the key thing I cannot stress enough to anyone and everyone who reads this topic.
Sorry for the Public Health Awareness Speech, and telling everyone something they already know, but this is something I just had to say. Because when you are in that position, you need a friend to be there to reach out and tell you this.
Of course, just being there as the friend who can help can make all the difference too.
I have a similar story, but a few years earlier. In the late 90s I was having an awful time both personally (messy divorce) and professionally (thus began the process of leaving f/t employment and becoming a f/t self-employed musician). I don't believe I was clinically depressed* but I was certainly under a lot of pressure. I ran off to watch TND at the local cinema and have rarely enjoyed a film, Bond or otherwise, more. For those few hours I was blissfully wrapped up in 007land, and when I came back the world did seem just a little brighter.
* I worked in psychiatry for over 30 years (RMN) so I have some knowledge of that.
Depression is still (in my opinion) very misunderstood and most people will have their own interpretation of what it actually is. I was diagnosed as 'manic depressive' many years ago but there was nothing that stood out as to why; I had a good job, was in a good relationship, was fit and healthy, playing sport, nothing sinister to speak of but I knew something wasn't quite right (negative thoughts). So I saw a psychologist who didn't really seem interested (maybe I was just unlucky or caught him on a bad day). After his second yawn I asked if I was boring him (maybe I’m a bit paranoid too) to which he replied "oh, it's just the heater" and all the while I envisioned him counting the (mega) dollars as I tried to tell him I was feeling down but couldn't put my finger on anything specific. For some reason he kept mentioning my parents (almost as if he was trying to blame someone) but I had a terrific upbringing and they were always there for all of us and that’s what I told him but he wasn’t going to budge.
Anyway, long story short, I took some written tests (mostly word association or something) and on my second visit when I went back for the results he told me nothing I didn't know already, didn’t give me any advice except to see him again to see how I was progressing so I didn't bother with him again. Did I see another psychologist? No, once bitten. I did however go back to my local GP who was very helpful and I did my own little bit of research and tried to understand to a certain degree about serotonin (or lack thereof).
Has this helped? Up to a point and it gave me a bit of insight as to why even the most successful and talented people who have the world at their feet have their own demons. Sometimes there just isn’t a reason.
I think Thunderbird 2 may be right in the sense you should reach out to people but I also think you have to pick the right ones as you will still get the odd quote back “what have you got to be depressed about” which is just ignorance so is forgivable.
Back on topic - can James Bond help? Well, probably not. He may be able to save the world on the odd occasion from being blown up with nuclear missiles etc but even this mission (depression) may be beyond him, but he is Bond. In saying that, what does help me with James Bond is you can ‘escape’ even for a short period of time; whether that be through the novels, films, comic strips and even on ajb007 reading about various things, people’s opinions and comical quotes . Basically Bond and the whole franchise is a nice outlet for me for a myriad of reasons and something to look forward to and back on. Yes, it’s a definite pick me up if I’m feeling a bit down.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not ‘manic’ or at least I don’t think I am and I have more good days than bad (it’s just the devil is at the back door waiting to come in). I also realise and appreciate - there are a lot more people in the world far worse off than I am.
Apologies if this was a little profound.
Embrace it and keep it up. {[] it affects many of us, even Churchill had his " Black dog" at
times.
The Bond films have lifted my spirits several times. I had a few years when everything seemed to go wrong. It definitely can make you feel better when you pop in a film and the main character is going through something similar, or even a song you can identify with helps.
Cubby meant for the films to be escapism entertainment, to take you away from the real world for a couple hours and bring you some happiness and thrills. Also, they can clear the mind for awhile from whatever one is going through personally and maybe afterwards start with a fresh perspective.
I sort of get the theme of SF, but I would have preferred the pts to be set in India as originally intended as it taps into the rebirth theme of the film, it doesn't work so well in Turkey.
It's true Bond is depressed in the movie, not sure how he gets out of it, I suppose facing up to his demons and returning home is part of it. Eventually grieving over his parents' demise by grieving for M.
Psychologists bang on about one's parents for a number of reasons: possibly because actually always being there for one might give you a sense of entitlement which can lead to massive disappointment in the way life turns out. Often depression can follow on from a sense of entitlement which sounds like I'm accusing the OP of being a smug Little Lord Fauntleroy and I don't mean it like that, it's just when reality doesn't match expectations it can be a let-down and you get in a rut. You are mourning for a world that you expected and never happened. I am thinking of myself a bit as I write this.
They also mention parents because some parents of that generation could be narcissistic in the sense of it being all about them and never their fault. Often it will be one like that, while the other is an 'enabler' who supports this self-centred view of the world. Parents like that can breed narcs who also think it is all about them and get disappointed when it doesn't go their way. But others reckon this is 'victim-blaming'.
Often manic behaviour can be inherited. This doesn't always mean dark or mad stuff, but you get blokes who are a bit edgy and hyper, who talk a lot, can be prone to mood swings.
On the other hand, some might mention your parents as a sort of magic cure, ie 'show' the patient how they are wrong and the 'cause' of it, offer a 'cure' in the sense of apportioning 'blame' and therefore the patient won't act that way again, it's akin to the placebo effect or the Wizard of Oz offering a bogus degree to the scarecrow so he loses his complex about being thick.
Back to Bond, I prefer the happier more escapist movies.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I heard a quote I never forgot in my younger years. Not sure who's said it, though I could Google it I never have. Not even sure why. But the quote was....
"The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth."
I’m new here and trust that as a newbe on this site I’m not over stepping my bounds by adding a reply here. I’ve been reading through the various topics and not really sure that I would fit in any place, still I couldn’t help reacting to this particular topic of the Daniel Craig Bond series and his character being depressed. First I want to say that I enjoyed the reinvention of James Bond with this series: Bond gets his double 00 status, Bond the independent thinker taking chances that are outside of normal channels, and of course the new Bond as subtle humorist. While I enjoyed his seriousness as the agent pursuing the single of goal solving the mystery of “what the hell is this organization”, as M asks in QOS, I never saw him as a depressed character in any of the four films in the series. When I was young I was always told “…don’t get depressed, get angry…”, and as Craig’s character narrows the chase of who or what Specter is, it’s that unbending focus born out of anger that held my interest, and brought this particular incarnation of Fleming’s Bond to life.
Please have a look at our intro for new members http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/45180/introduction-how-to-use-the-forum/ and if you like introduce yourself to us at http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/34154/welcome-comings-goings/page/72/
Ultimately he gets to the end of SP even being able to walk away from his demons and go after a new and happier life. This is okay, but irks a bit, for if Bond took such an attitude we wouldn't have any Bond films, thought it is perhaps a bit inevitable when the films have placed such an emphasis on making it personal. It also may be what happens when you cast a guy in his 40s or thereabouts, for a guy in his 30s everything is still grist to the mill. Beyond that it all gets a bit fraught and undignified.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Good point. I see Bond as troubled, but not neccessarilly depressed. Iknow fro my work that Some of the standard tests for depression include feelings of worthlessness as key indicator. In Skyfall it's arguable that others may question his value (Q for example) but Bond himself understands his worth and purpose.
Great post , Walther P99 !
I have to say I enjoyed very much the scene in Skyfall where James Bond received his psychological evaluation it was a great scene and for me made the man more real. About 5 years ago I was diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and I must say it was a very tough time for me. Without warning a trigger set off a 3 year period of darkness. I made a full recovery ....but unfortunately two months ago the PTS started to worm its way back . I'm pleased to say I am receiving help which I am so grateful for and while I am not working at the moment, I keep positive by training swimming running adding to my James Bond collection and of course watching my 007 movies much to my wife and children's bemusement at me watching the same films again and again.
My colleague from our first response unit has also been diagnosed with PTS so we visit each other regularly also, its sad sometimes to watch us both struggle with things but we are determined to get through this .
I derive and get a lot of enjoyment from watching the films which also inspire me very much. I guess its nice to see bits of realism in the films.
I am also very lucky to have such a supportive and loving family also, this helps so very much .
Good luck to all on this site battling with depression and pts . My thoughts and best wishes are with you all.
Kind regards as always, -{ -{ -{ -{
James
First, compliments on your post. I trust you will find the strength to overcome your struggle. As for myself. One of the things I like about the James Bond character in the novels is his somewhat troubled state of mind from time to time. As with the role as DC performs.
Having said that, it is a good thing that JB contributes to your recovery.
All the best to you
As if we ever needed reminding of what a thoughtful group of people we have on here and how embracing this site is.
{[]
Yes indeed as with many of us who have had dealings long drawn out traumatic situations be it through Service or Personal issues. It does change us as people and I think coping with these changes can prove quite difficult and seeing that Bond is no different ........in the books and films gives him a real sense of a person. In Casino Royale when Bond says to Vesper I have to get out with what little I have left.... It is such a great line ! The writers have given thought to what Bond as a person must be feeling about the things he has to do and go through for his role in MI6.
Its also perfectly shot ..as the questions in your mind don't happen while your in the situation and its happening around you..its only after in the quite time when your mind thinks about what you as a person has gone through.......just like Bond on the beach or after recuperating from his injuries at the cinic .. A wonderfully clever shot and thought out part of the film. -{ -{
I'm doing we'll and every day getting better and better!
Thanks for all the good wishes everyone!
This really is an amazing group of people and I am grateful to be a part of it .
Call me paranoid and I'm not replying for the sake of an argument but I'm assuming I'm the 'OP' you mentioned as I was the only one that had mentioned parents. Personally I think you'd be better off just quoting the person's user name and be done with it.
Smug Little Lord Fauntleroy? I'm well aware it was a book written in the 19th century and later on a film was made but I fail to see the relevance. Maybe I'll have to research this a lot more.
I also don't consider myself entitled to anything just because I had a decent upbringing. Whose life does work out how one would have wanted it to be? Sure, we would all like to have been born with talent; whether it be a singer like Tom Jones, a footballer like Pele or a guitarist like Jimmy Page but 'c'est la vie'. That is not the reason for depression or am I looking for one. The reason for depression is having a lack of serotonin (look it up). Quite simply, it's a chemical imbalance.
Also clarify 'that generation'. Specifically which generation are you talking about or is that in reference to the book written in the 19th century? And does it matter?
Finally, the only reason I mentioned my parents was to point out that the psychologist's only backup plan was that he had nothing to go on. He had no answers/solutions so the easy way out was blame the parents. That was his plan B if you like which is why I never saw him again.
I'm not inclined to respond to the rest of your post.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
No problem - don't look it up or respond to the rest of my post.
But for anyone else interested, this (causes for depression) may be worth a look.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/basics/causes/con-20032977
Fleming's Bond certainly shows signs of the demons and doubts that many of us carry with us; it gives him a depth and makes the character all the more appealing in my opinion. I think we started to see more depth with Brosnan's Bond and this has continued with Craig's.
I've certainly experienced some very difficult times as well as more than the normal amount of close family bereavement. For me, Bond (the books, the films and the genre) is a means of enjoyment, escapism and entertainment. I am also inspired by the idea of always getting back up again, whatever the challenge, which I feel we've seen more of with Craig's iteration of the character.
Here's to us all -{
I can identify with what you are saying. Silvia is me in my darkest times. When all the scars and demons seem to just overwhelm me.
I think that Bond and Silvia are, in many ways, feeling the same emotions. However, what keeps Bond resilient is that sense of a purpose greater than himself.
I struggle with deep depression often and I only find my fulfillment when I get lost in something greater than myself.
Bond becomes my mask.