Older Bond
nobody
Posts: 110MI6 Agent
I recently watched "Mr. Holmes" on demand, and it made me think a film about an older James Bond (more serious in tone than the '67 version of Casino Royale) might be cool. Then last night, my daughter made me watch "Me Before You", and I couldn't stop thinking how excellent Charles Dance would be as an older 007, reflecting on his career, while simultaneously saving the world yet again.
Comments
That would be NSNA
I'm a big fan of Miller's DKR and love the genre of older iconic characters proving their mettle in a world being run by the younger generation. Charles Dance (ideally not as old as he is now) would've been a good opportunity for this, since IMO, he came closest to the literary Bond character albeit not being called Bond in Goldeneye.
Doing an older Bond requires the right balance. An older Bond that continues to mimic the hallmark Bond traits like in NSNA devolves into parody and should be avoided. Though I thought Mr. Holmes was a bit flat, I liked the old, dignified and elder statesman-like approach of Ian McKellen. I like how Brosnan has aged (I recently re-watched Mama Mia and watched A Long Way Down and No Escape) and dare I say he has more gravitas now and whose personality IMO is more engaging than when he was younger; he'd make a great older Bond if in such a story he's to be played with a respectability that comes with age while being allowed to be himself. And another thing, for someone who is technically classically handsome, you don't really pick up on any conceit or self awareness of that in his non-Bond movies.
Yes! Pierce could easily still be a great Bond now. Maybe if Craig decides not to return, Pierce could always pull a Connery and come back!
When news broke out that EON acquired the rights for CR and the Blofeld character, I suggested here on AJB on going that route, making CR a ready-for-retirement Bond's revisit of his mission to Royale-les-Eaux years ago (when he encountered and defeated Le Chiffre and had suffered his loss of Vesper) in an end-game involving his eternal enemy, Blofeld, though most of the novel's action would be incorporated into the current time, including the "Black Hare and Grey Hound" car chase with Bond using his DB5 (an antique car) instead of the novel's 4.5 Litre Bentley. My version had Bond in the end retire from the service to a quiet and secluded island.
That would work. What also would have helped would have been a good script (something Craig had and Brosnan tended not to have) and a director who made sense for Bond.
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Brilliant.
"Better make that two."
That would have been spectacular. But I thought that they didn't have the right to Blofeld until after Skyfall, hence not using Blofeld until Spectre?
You're probably correct. What I, and many others went on was when Sony got involved esp. with the pre-production of CR. To me at least considering the convoluted roles of all parties involved, I operated on the assumption that the rights to Blofeld/SPECTRE went in-house so to speak with Sony's involvement.
You and Matt S are missing the point and went off tangent; it is not a question of when the Blofeld/SPECTRE rights were actually acquired by EON. This was the kind of news I was talking about that was being discussed here on AJB during the period between DAD and CR, whether or not it was accurate... From the "Never Say Never Again (1983)" article on the MI6 site (https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/movies/nsna.php3)
"In 1997, MGM did acquire the rights to [NSNA] from Sony (who bought MGM with a group of investors in 2005)"
In November 2013 MGM and the McClory estate formally settled the issue with Danjaq, LLC—sister company of Eon Productions—with MGM acquiring the full copyright film rights to the concept of Spectre and all of the characters associated with it.[28] With the acquisition of the film rights and the organisation's re-introduction to the series' continuity, the SPECTRE acronym was discarded and the organisation reimagined as "Spectre"
Approx 7 years after CR release, EON finally acquired the rights to use SPECTRE / Blofeld.
All I was on about was that it was impossible for CR to include SPECTRE at the time. Sorry if I have misunderstood your post
Charles Dance would be an inspired choice for the older Bond, definitely a chance to do something VERY close to the literary character. I don't know enough about Dance to know if he'd be in good enough shape to do action scenes, but if he is then I'd be all for it. Heck, Harrison Ford is well into his 70s and still playing Han Solo AND Indiana Jones. If Dance's age makes him physically not quite up to snuff for the role, I'd maybe look at other older actors who can handle the physical demands of the role, who are also five to ten years younger, perhaps.
I see the original point about Pierce Brosnan and Timothy Dalton already being too associated with the cinematic 007 to play an older, more literary Bond, but I still think either would be a great choice. Dalton has already played a more literary version of the character, and I think it would be a great opportunity to see an older Brosnan portray the darker, more literary version of the character that he was always capable of playing.
If you did want a totally new actor to play the part, some other actors I would be interested to see would be:
Daniel Day-Lewis- perfect age, look, and acting chops for an older, more literary take on the character. In my view he'd be the dream actor for the part.
Iain Glen- I can't help but think of him as a candidate for James Bond, despite his age, when I watch him on Game of Thrones, so here would be the perfect opportunity.
Mel Gibson- Once a candidate for the role as a young man. I know there's a lot of baggage that comes with Gibson, but he's an older actor that's still doing action roles, and he's definitely got what it takes all around.
Robert Downey Jr.- Ok, I know everyone is going to hate this, but hear me out. He's proven he can play suave and sophisticated and do action scenes with Iron Man and Sherlock Holmes, and also proved that he can do a very believable British accent. And let's not forget that before he jumped into mainstream cinema he was an actor known for interesting roles and dramatic gravitas. Basically if you look at his resume' for its merits for the role and consider nothing else, he's a pretty great candidate, especially now that he's getting into middle age.
At the end of the day, I'd say go with Pierce. Or, if you want a new actor, Day-Lewis.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/wish-i-was-at-disneyland/id1202780413?mt=2
I don't see the fact that Brosnan and Dalton have both played the active Bond as a hindrance to either of them playing a retired 007. Quite the opposite, in fact.
And Charles Dance belongs in Bond's world alright, and would have made an excellent M (though the present incumbent is doing just fine IMHO).
The CR script is rubbish.
Indeed it is. I believe that in another decade that film will have much fewer fans and the people who still love it will only love it out of nostalgia. Like most people think now, I also once thought it was a great film.
On this topic, I'd love to see Brosnan come back as Bond and ignore all of Craig's world. But have him come back as more of a November Man-type Bond. Perhaps bring back some of the people from his films, and have Robinson promoted to Bond's boss. I know it would never happen (and with plenty of good reasons), so it's just a thought.
I do agree with this, CR has become a more and more tedious watch. However, keen to understand what both of you believe to be the film's flaws?
"Better make that two."
I've stated it quite a few times but in a nutshell:
1. Characterisation of Bond (Bond is written as a childish thug who jumps around like the energiser bunny. Not the gentleman spy that once was)
2. Rookie Bond angle (contrived and ridiculous; a naval commander would have strict discipline, especially one who's moved into secret intelligence, AND THEN PROMOTED to it's elite section. He would never break into his superior's house, especially in the given circumstances of the film).
3. Characterisation of Vesper.
4. Feminist overtones (i.e. the filmmakers saying there was no need for Moneypenny when she appeared in the novel, and her role is changed to a male secretary)
5. Colour Grading
6. Lack of atmosphere (the opening line of the novel is so moody and ambient, and none of it appears in the film)
7. Arnold's score (blandest score of the series, despite a few standout tracks. And I'm an Arnold fan!)
8. Falling House of Venice (great concept, tonally out of place in the film).
As a side note, I do like how they updated it basic premise of the film to fit modern times. Had the film rid of the rookie angle, the leftist politics, and kept it as a straight adaptation for the 21st century, then it would have been much better. Cosmetically, the music and colour grade may have stayed the same, but the root of the film is the most glaring problem for me.
Very interesting take on CR. To counter a little :
1. Not sure how much of a 'Gentleman' Bond is. For me it's a veneer, and acquired over time. Iron fist in a velvet glove and all that.its a balance and a negotiated tension. However I do see that the 'air fuel mixture' was running a little rich as it has tended to do in the Craig era.
2. I am sure that Bond is an Intelligence officer and not a Spy, on occassion a (reluctant) assassin.
3.The script has some real sparkle,for example the train dialogue and the torture scene are amongst the very best.
4. Agree about Vesper, cannot fathom why Bond falls so readily. Found her irritating TBH.
5. Repeated watching highlights that it's too long, both the building collapse and airport set pieces are although well done are uneccessary distractions.
That said it's top 5 for me, coming behind OHMSS,FRWL, LTD, & LTK. So not too shabby at all. Coming after the lamentable second half of DAD it felt good.
I'm not sure what you mean by your second point, but thanks for playing. -{
I agree with most of this, except for number 7. It's not Arnold's best by any means, but it sure beats Newman's meaningless rubbish. Though I was never a big fan of the main song. It's also far from the worst song of the series, but it's nothing special, particularly compared to the other songs Arnold has written for the series. And the title sequence that accompanies the song looks terribly outdated now.
I'll also add the airport sequence as bringing down the film. That is without a doubt most boring action sequence I've ever seen. I've written much more here about why I think CR is so awful, but I'll have to find that later.
zaphod99, about number 1, being a gentleman may be acquired over time, but if someone isn't a gentleman by age 38 it's never going to happen. Bond would have developed his gentlemanly veneer as a young man from his education at Eton and Fettes. He would have developed his tastes at a much younger age.
Disagree with a lot (naturally since in my top 3) however I do find the Miami airport scene a bit of a drag
Bond's Dossier, put forth by Eon at the time CR was released, describes in some detail how Craig's Bond (former SBS) often took individual initiative, exceeding orders and thinking outside the box to get things done (and, on more than one occasion, saving lives)...and that at least two of his former superior officers took exception to this perceived disregard of conventional protocol...whilst others praised his inspired and instinctive ability to get the job done.
(I do have a full copy of this dossier, which I transcribed verbatim in 2005 or 2006, and will gladly forward a PDF copy to anyone who hasn't read it and is interested in doing so; just PM me
I believe that CR maintains the spirit and intent of Fleming's novel, whilst necessarily tweaking his early-'00' career to facilitate the reboot, and of course inserting the extra action, etc for modern film audiences. Of course, opinions and mileage will vary from fan to fan...but I think Craig's Bond nods to Fleming in some of the most important aspects.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Craig ( only my opinion of course ) is the literary Bond. In attitude, resolve and
Chacterisation.