The Syrian Refugee Crisis

Silhouette Man

I thought that it was time that we had a thread on this major humanitarian crisis of our times. I find it very interesting, along with the fight against ISIS and the so-called Islamic State. I think the source of the problem in Syria needs to be dealt with as a matter of urgency by the international community.

I hope that this will be an interesting discussion and that it can be conducted with the bare minimum of moderator supervision.

welshboy78

I think there has been a lot discussed on this already but mixed in other threads (god knows where, what, when)

Silhouette Man

welshboy78 wrote:

I think there has been a lot discussed on this already but mixed in other threads (god knows where, what, when)

Yes, there probably has been. I thought it would be good to have a specific thread on it.

Number24

I agree the sitiuation in Syria has to be handled to get any sort of control of the refugee crisis. The rule of law must also be restored in Libya to stop the refugee boats to Italy.

Chriscoop

Yes it's become imperative to restore some order in these regions, not only for the refugee crisis but for all the people of those nations who are subject to daily atrocities. Assad needs removing quickly as if he's taken out of the equation there can be a starting point. I think in the short term internationally protected "safe zones" should be implemented which are demilitarised except for the international peace keeping force. It should be made clear to the Russians any aggressive bombing or action in these zones would be seen as an act of war. I think this could be achieved quickly when I say zones I mean entire cities not camps.

Higgins

First thing which will happen with "safe zones" in the area is that those will become the main targets for ISIS and Assad - and Turkey will instrumentailze these zones and people for their own agenda.

After the destruction of the UN by GWB, nations have failed for 4 years now to install those "safe zones" and the bigger question is, what we do NOW for the people there until such a zone is installed (which may take another couple of years). People can't wait, they are dying NOW!

Silhouette Man

Higgins wrote:

First thing which will happen with "safe zones" in the area is that those will become the main targets for ISIS and Assad - and Turkey will instrumentailze these zones and people for their own agenda.

After the destruction of the UN by GWB, nations have failed for 4 years now to install those "safe zones" and the bigger question is, what we do NOW for the people there until such a zone is installed (which may take another couple of years). People can't wait, they are dying NOW!

The "safe zones" were thought up by former British Prime Minister John Major who introduced during the Iraq War of 1991. They were a good initiative but obviously they can be targeted by those who do not follow the rules of war.

Higgins

Plus who is willing to send the troops on the ground who protect those zones?
You can't do that by drones and aircraft carriers

Silhouette Man

Higgins wrote:

Plus is willing to send the troops on the ground who protect those zones?
You can't do that by drones and aircraft carriers

"Boots on the ground" never plays too well with the general populace (Vietnam/Afghanistan/Iraq in the US, Iraq/Afghanistan/Iraq in the UK) but I agree that it is needed in this case.

Chriscoop

John Major created safe zones during a war we were involved in, I'm talking of military intervention initially on humanitarian grounds, the forces should be made up of international military contigents. Isis etc would see these areas as targets but I doubt theyd opt for a full scale attack unfortunately. All this could only work with a united decision by countries participating. And with realistic repercussions for attacking a designated safe zone. What we all have to understand is that a loss of life is inevitable and that collateral damages will happen.. It may end up as a full scale conflict but I don't think an invasion is right here and would be unpopular. Boots on the ground and military intervention is becoming inevitable unless we throw open our doors to all, evacuate civilians and leave large swathes of the middle east to terrorists and meglamaniacle despots.

Higgins

What about the people dying right now while we are debating "safe zones" ( since 4 years) and don't bring them to an end?

" hold tight, honey, stay where you are - don't come to us - we'll arrange some place for you - well eventually - well eventually in some years to come - well not sure about that and who will protect that and who will pay for it. And we are not well off - we must look after ourself now. For sure you understand...."

Chriscoop

Any form of action will require debate and negotiation. I'm not sure there is an immediate result to cure this situation tomorrow.

Higgins

We are debating for years now without any result and people are DYING THERE EVERY SINGLE DAY because we are just talking and refuse them their rights which we granted them by signing the Geneva refugee convention!

Silhouette Man

Well President Obama is now a lame-duck and has prevaricated on this crisis and several other matters for years. In short he's a ditherer and people are dying because he won't step up to the challenge.

Higgins

I'll leave it to Chris to reply on Obama

Silhouette Man

I like him, but he doesn't do too much and he didn't really live up to the hype at all for me.

Higgins

Well, first of,all,Obama is not alone. All allies and the Nato remained very passive, too.
Then the public opinion in the US is against further involvement in the Middle East and lastly the republican congressmen did everything to stop him from being more active.

It's certainly not as easy as you imply.

Thunderpussy

Most politicians seem to be happy using the " let's do nothing untill they all die, or the
Problem goes away " routine. ah! Politicians just when I think I can't lose any more
Regard for them..........

Silhouette Man

Higgins wrote:

Well, first of,all,Obama is not alone. All allies and the Nato remained very passive, too.
Then the public opinion in the US is against further involvement in the Middle East and lastly the republican congressmen did everything to stop him from being more active.

It's certainly not as easy as you imply.

Oh, I know it's not and I know he's not the only one prevaricating.

The US political system is failing these refugees. Nothing can get done if the other party has the majority in Congress.

Higgins

How many refugees did the UK ( including Ireland) take?

It's easy to point fingers...

Silhouette Man

Not enough would be the answer. 20,000 over 5 years.

Sir Miles

Higgins wrote:

We are debating for years now without any result and people are DYING THERE EVERY SINGLE DAY because we are just talking and refuse them their rights which we granted them by signing the Geneva refugee convention!

Does Syria have oil reserves ? No ? Then nobody is interested...cynical but true.

Chriscoop

Sending in troops on a humanitarian basis is never popular which is sad as collectively there is enough fire power to end this conflict quickly, but no one has the appetite for that or the balls to call it honestly, as in yes there will be casualties on all sides but the few die to save the many for no personal gain. Sad but true. The Russians involvement is also a massive complicating factor. Though at some point Putin needs calling out.

Higgins

So what do we do with the people that are escaping from that mess?

This thread is about refugees and not about the political mess that we are all stuck in

As for protecting and funding ' safe zones' this from 2013 may be interesting:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22045451

Silhouette Man

I wonder what is going on with all of this now?

Sadly it seems to have left the rather fickle attention of rolling TV news reports anyhow.

Chriscoop

Silhouette Man wrote:

I wonder what is going on with all of this now?

Sadly it seems to have left the rather fickle attention of rolling TV news reports anyhow.

As is so often the case with our as you say fickle media. which in turn creates a fickle populous. I worry for a world where more people watch big brother than know about the crises that currently afflict our world
The situation there has changed, Assad has all but secured a hollow victory and now presides once again over a destroyed country and "cleansing" and genocide are quickly taking over.

Number24

Because of the deal between Turkey and the EU and border fences in eastern Europe the flow of refugees by the eastern route has calmed down. The refugees using boats from Libya keep coming to Italy. Few other European countries are willing to share the burden with Italy, so Italy is struggling.

Joshua

All peoples who are civilians touched by war and to leave their homelands because of this and lose family is the tragedy.

I will not post only to say this. I always find it strange to see that in Europe and the west wars in Africa seems to be left out of news. I speak especially of one war. This war only ended I think about fifteen years ago. It cost the lives of more than five and one half millions people. Yes I write that correctly, and many more made homeless and suffering and to flee their homeland. I do not think this ever was in the media of the west? I was not here then but I have looked for this report and can find nothing.

I think perhaps that the lives of the Africans are sometimes not worthy to report in the western media? This is what it makes me feel like any way.

Barbel

This article may be of interest: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/15/west-lazy-reporting-africa It's several years old, but perhaps still holds true.

Joshua

Barbel wrote:

This article may be of interest: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/15/west-lazy-reporting-africa It's several years old, but perhaps still holds true.

Thank you for this. It is a very interesting report and I think true in many parts. If i understand it correctly then the situation of reporting by western media of African affairs is like me reporting on American affairs, I would not know what I am speaking about because I do not know about that continent.
I must say that much of what is said about corruption is true. Not in every African country perhaps but in many. The deterioration of the infra structure of my country is very real. roads have been turned to dust in many areas and not passable unless with the big four wheel drive car, electricity stays off many times and other things. I would certainly not fly with the national airline for the reason spoke about in the report. This is due to corruption and bad management and lack of interest. Better always for those in power to take monies for themselves than spend it on the country.

At this time I think there is many more fighting happening in parts of Africa than in the middle east and this will mean more civilians who die and are homeless to flee their homelands. A lot in north and east Africa at this time with the terrorist and I think only the time this is on the news is when the migrants try to cross the sea to Europe.

I am only making a statement of my opinion here. Please i wish no one to think that I believe the middle east is less of a war than Africa but just that I think that suffering is suffering and suffering in one region should not be forgotten.

Silhouette Man

Number24 wrote:

Because of the deal between Turkey and the EU and border fences in eastern Europe the flow of refugees by the eastern route has calmed down. The refugees using boats from Libya keep coming to Italy. Few other European countries are willing to share the burden with Italy, so Italy is struggling.

Ah, I see. I took my eyes off the ball for a while on this particular story. I agree that Italy is shamefully being left to do all of the heavy lifting in this crisis.