It's Time for a Female Villain

Agent Lee

There's a lot up in the air for Bond 25. Will Craig return? Will there be a new Bond? Will it be a continuation of the Craig timeline? Will it be a whole new reboot? A soft reboot? Anything could happen. But regardless of what Bond 25 ends up being, I think it's the right time to have the central villain of the film be female. To date, the only other central female villains of a Bond film have been Rosa Klebb in FRWL and Electra in TWINE, and even then, it's debatable whether or not either of them are the main villain of their respective films. I think it's about time we add another dynamic female villain to Bond's rouges gallery. Imagine, for instance, Jessica Lange playing an older, sexy villain, a high-up in Spectre or the leader of her own criminal organization. But that's just one idea. The possibilities are endless, and I think as far as villains go, a female villain is the most interesting place Bond 25 could possibly go.

Jovius

As long as she's done well, I'm game. Because unfortunately women tend to get unfairly judged. If she's not done well, everyone's going to be all, "Well, I guess women can't be good Bond villains after all." It sounds ridiculous, but that's the sort of logic I'm seeing all over the place.

Dracolis

Vogel (Brigitte Millar) should take over as head of SPECTRE whilst Blofeld is incarcerated.

Agent Lee

Jovius wrote:

As long as she's done well, I'm game. Because unfortunately women tend to get unfairly judged. If she's not done well, everyone's going to be all, "Well, I guess women can't be good Bond villains after all." It sounds ridiculous, but that's the sort of logic I'm seeing all over the place.

Yeah totally. Anytime a woman plays a traditionally male role and it isn't done right people think women can't do it. But still I'm game no matter what. It's worth a shot at this point.

MarcAngeDraco

I am wondering how we'd approach a female villain in terms of looks - and if it would be an issue at all? Anything remotely similar to the 'toad-like' Rosa Klebb, or the utterly gorgeous Elektra King would mean that whoever is behind the next female villain (no pun intended - filmmakers, the actress) would need to ensure they aren't likened to the aforementioned characters. She couldn't be a lesbian, she couldn't be considered a good-girl-turned-bad, she couldn't have familial issues, she couldn't be subservient to someone else (i.e. Blofeld), and perhaps not even European.

Oakvale

Gwendoline Christie would probably be a good female villain, great actually.

hehadlotsofguts

I'd like to see Blofeld's daughter used in a Bond film. I'm not too sure if they should go into how Nena became to be a villain because this was a major story arc in Spectre and it'd be repetittive to go into that again with her.

As mentioned by Dracolis, she could be used to manage his affairs whilst he is in jail. Or she'd help him escape.

zaphod99

Tilda Swinton.

Number24

I fully agree it's time for a female villan. Personally I think a woman like Tricia Helfer would be perfect: formidable, inteligent and hot!




I know I risk that no-one will read this, but I also would like to see a funny Bond girl. I don't think Bond should gecome a comedian who also shoots guns again, but after all the tragic women of the Craig movies I think a woman with lots of witt would be just the thing!

Chriscoop

I agree number 24 a witty woman would be good, I'd quite like to see the head female villain have a female henchperson maybe like a modern Rosa klebb? Have we had a female villain since dad and Rosamund pike? Who by the way was excellent in gone girl.

Thunderpussy

I'd love to see another Roses Klebb or Irma Bunt .... A real psycho!

Agent Kino

I'm all game for a female villain. I think it's time for a real sadistic Bond villain. Someone ruthless.

Chriscoop

And anyone who's ever had dealings with a female can attest to their ruthlesness and villainous nature in fact I'd like to nominate Mrs Coop for the part. Bond wouldn't stand a chance.

Agent Lee

Oakvale wrote:

Gwendoline Christie would probably be a good female villain, great actually.

+1!!! Gwendoline Christie would be perfect. She has a dominating presence, the right type of charisma to play a cool, sadistic villain, and she can be sexy without falling into the traditional male gaze category.

welshguy34

I would be all for a female villain as long as she is well written.

doubleOElvis

I vote Tilda Swinton.

Number24

Agent Lee wrote:

Oakvale wrote:

Gwendoline Christie would probably be a good female villain, great actually.

+1!!! Gwendoline Christie would be perfect. She has a dominating presence, the right type of charisma to play a cool, sadistic villain, and she can be sexy without falling into the traditional male gaze category.

What is wrong with the male gaze, mine in particular? X-(

Only joking, and Gwendoline Christie is a very good suggestion.

eric7064

Emily Blunt. Great I'm action roles. Could definitely pull it off

Matt S

welshguy34 wrote:

I would be all for a female villain as long as she is well written.

A poorly written female villain wouldn't be any worse than a poorly written male villain.

Agent Lee

Matt S wrote:

welshguy34 wrote:

I would be all for a female villain as long as she is well written.

A poorly written female villain wouldn't be any worse than a poorly written male villain.

My thoughts exactly. The only downside is that people will react misogynistically if she's written poorly, as Jovius pointed out earlier, and be opposed to future female villains. But the fact that people still pull crap like that is all the more reason for a female Bond villain.

Matt S

Agent Lee wrote:

Matt S wrote:

welshguy34 wrote:

I would be all for a female villain as long as she is well written.

A poorly written female villain wouldn't be any worse than a poorly written male villain.

My thoughts exactly. The only downside is that people will react misogynistically if she's written poorly, as Jovius pointed out earlier, and be opposed to future female villains. But the fact that people still pull crap like that is all the more reason for a female Bond villain.

It makes me actually consider TWINE to be a decently written film. Elektra King is actually a good character. And after Daniel Craig's films I don't have confidence that another villain could be on her level, female or male. Craig's films have been lacking in the villain department.

Chriscoop

They have indeed, le chiffre was a decent villain, I'm kind of hoping the writing on the next film will move up a notch or ten

Agent Lee

Matt S wrote:

Agent Lee wrote:

Matt S wrote:

A poorly written female villain wouldn't be any worse than a poorly written male villain.

My thoughts exactly. The only downside is that people will react misogynistically if she's written poorly, as Jovius pointed out earlier, and be opposed to future female villains. But the fact that people still pull crap like that is all the more reason for a female Bond villain.

It makes me actually consider TWINE to be a decently written film. Elektra King is actually a good character. And after Daniel Craig's films I don't have confidence that another villain could be on her level, female or male. Craig's films have been lacking in the villain department.

The Craig films have been 2 for 4 IMO. Both Le Chiffre and Silva were great villains, brilliantly portrayed by their respective actors. I agree, though, that Elektra King is a very well written character, and probably the best thing about TWINE.

MarcAngeDraco

Matt S wrote:

Agent Lee wrote:

Matt S wrote:

A poorly written female villain wouldn't be any worse than a poorly written male villain.

My thoughts exactly. The only downside is that people will react misogynistically if she's written poorly, as Jovius pointed out earlier, and be opposed to future female villains. But the fact that people still pull crap like that is all the more reason for a female Bond villain.

It makes me actually consider TWINE to be a decently written film. Elektra King is actually a good character. And after Daniel Craig's films I don't have confidence that another villain could be on her level, female or male. Craig's films have been lacking in the villain department.

Have you read one of Purvis and Wade's earlier drafts of TWINE (I think it may have been the one before Michael Apted's wife got her hands on it)? The writing of Elektra (and Bond!) is much better in the torture chair scene - and this is coming from a lover of the TWINE we got!

I quite like Silva, and find him to be a terrifying villain, but you're right in my eyes - Elektra King is a much better villain. I also quite liked Almaric's Greene. He's a different kind of Bond villain, yet feels rightly placed in the Bond-o-verse.

caractacus potts

I could go for no villain at all as long as its well written
Bond gets up, he goes to work, there: that's a story, he reads, he waits 2 hours for a table in a Chinese restaurant, that's a story
as long as its well written
we just had the biggest baddest villain of them all, played by the creepy Gestapo dude from the Tarantino films, and the movie stunk because it was poorly written
therefor good writing trumps who the villain is

someone said Miranda Frost was the last female baddie
in Casino Royale it's Le Chiffre's ladyfriend who spikes Bond's drink ... a minor accomplice, but I think she may have been the last female baddie
and I think she was still roaming free at the end of the film, so she could still be out there plotting evil schemes to rule the world

Vesper Lynn (i.e. West Berlin, i.e. divided loyalties) was a good/bad/good girl, if you think about it, the real villain of the piece, that was a good story, but she came from source material that was well-written, rather than a committee-driven rewrite of Austin Powers without the jokes

walther p99

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Matt S wrote:

Agent Lee wrote:

My thoughts exactly. The only downside is that people will react misogynistically if she's written poorly, as Jovius pointed out earlier, and be opposed to future female villains. But the fact that people still pull crap like that is all the more reason for a female Bond villain.

It makes me actually consider TWINE to be a decently written film. Elektra King is actually a good character. And after Daniel Craig's films I don't have confidence that another villain could be on her level, female or male. Craig's films have been lacking in the villain department.

Have you read one of Purvis and Wade's earlier drafts of TWINE (I think it may have been the one before Michael Apted's wife got her hands on it)? The writing of Elektra (and Bond!) is much better in the torture chair scene - and this is coming from a lover of the TWINE we got!

I quite like Silva, and find him to be a terrifying villain, but you're right in my eyes - Elektra King is a much better villain. I also quite liked Almaric's Greene. He's a different kind of Bond villain, yet feels rightly placed in the Bond-o-verse.

I think TWINE has one of the most influential and original stories in the series, just look how much SF stole from it.

Jag

TWINE is certainly a classic for me, and I enjoy watching it now a lot more than I did at the time.

I can only hope that Purvis and Wade don't read this forum. After discussing female villains and Austin Powers here we may end up with a female baddie in Bond 25 with machine guns in her bra...

ToTheRight

I should watch TWINE again soon.

MarcAngeDraco

Jag wrote:

TWINE is certainly a classic for me, and I enjoy watching it now a lot more than I did at the time.

I can only hope that Purvis and Wade don't read this forum. After discussing female villains and Austin Powers here we may end up with a female baddie in Bond 25 with machine guns in her bra...

Though I think that's just what we need at this point in time!

For all the ridicule Purvis and Wade get, I do think they are incredibly underrated. For those who believe TWINE isn't a good film, their premise of the film is interesting and topical, with a good understanding of Fleming's creation at its heart. For DAD, underneath Tamahori's daft rewrite are semblances of Purvis and Wade's compelling story: Bond uncovering the mole in MI6, who in turn, is in cahoots with the (rogue) North Koreans. For CR, Paul Haggis came in with his leftist inclinations and rewrote their 21st century script of Fleming's first novel. Nothing of what P&W wrote made it into the film, despite being credited with writing QOS, so that movie's shortcomings can't be attributed to them. Skyfall features the best Bond villain since TWINE, and his threat and motivation are both terrifying and compelling, not to mention injecting some of the most interesting character dynamics of the series. Of course this can be attributed to John Logan as well. However, given he was tasked with writing SPECTRE, and using Mendes' idea of Bond supposedly forcing a foster sibling out of his nest, it makes me doubt the true input of Logan's work in SF. Further, the fact that Purvis and Wade were asked back to make it feel more Bondian cements that their understanding of James Bond is nothing less than extensive.

Matt S

MarcAngeDraco wrote:

Jag wrote:

TWINE is certainly a classic for me, and I enjoy watching it now a lot more than I did at the time.

I can only hope that Purvis and Wade don't read this forum. After discussing female villains and Austin Powers here we may end up with a female baddie in Bond 25 with machine guns in her bra...

Though I think that's just what we need at this point in time!

For all the ridicule Purvis and Wade get, I do think they are incredibly underrated. For those who believe TWINE isn't a good film, their premise of the film is interesting and topical, with a good understanding of Fleming's creation at its heart. For DAD, underneath Tamahori's daft rewrite are semblances of Purvis and Wade's compelling story: Bond uncovering the mole in MI6, who in turn, is in cahoots with the (rogue) North Koreans. For CR, Paul Haggis came in with his leftist inclinations and rewrote their 21st century script of Fleming's first novel. Nothing of what P&W wrote made it into the film, despite being credited with writing QOS, so that movie's shortcomings can't be attributed to them. Skyfall features the best Bond villain since TWINE, and his threat and motivation are both terrifying and compelling, not to mention injecting some of the most interesting character dynamics of the series. Of course this can be attributed to John Logan as well. However, given he was tasked with writing SPECTRE, and using Mendes' idea of Bond supposedly forcing a foster sibling out of his nest, it makes me doubt the true input of Logan's work in SF. Further, the fact that Purvis and Wade were asked back to make it feel more Bondian cements that their understanding of James Bond is nothing less than extensive.

Interesting. I watched TWINE last year and it holds up so well it's hard to believe it was made 17 years ago. The story may not be the most exciting, but it's not bad. And the way you describe DAD makes it sound good at its core. The overall story is fine, whereas its the small things that are the problem. SP is the opposite, where the overall story as some big problems whilst it has all the small things that make it better.

perdogg

Jovius wrote:

As long as she's done well, I'm game. Because unfortunately women tend to get unfairly judged. If she's not done well, everyone's going to be all, "Well, I guess women can't be good Bond villains after all." It sounds ridiculous, but that's the sort of logic I'm seeing all over the place.

What is this obsession with genitalia? We had female villains and henchwomen in the past, plus Fatima Blush, but this was to show off Bond's hetero credentials, but since EON is no longer interested in Bond being hetero it is no longer interesting.