The Right Balance
CmdrAtticus
United StatesPosts: 1,102MI6 Agent
I apologize if this topic has been already posted in the past and I missed it, but I thought it would be interesting to know which films members believe strike the best balance when it comes to the cinematic Bond stories/character and Fleming's version and if that balance can sustain the series or does it need to be weighted more to one side or the other depending on how the tastes of audiences change over the years. They have done this in the past of course, but is there a particular balance that would best fit both literary fans and cinematic fans or will the series always have to forever bend to the whims of future tastes?
Comments
No worries. I'm sure we have had something along these lines but the exact wording was different. If anyone remembers, please let me know.
The earliest Bonds found the kernel of what made the Fleming stories work. They had a tough but romanticized character put into exotic locations and facing colorful adversaries. The later films might have taken inspiration but got the formula wrong. The films were either too comic or too hard edged. Fleming created escape, and the Connery era provided it while also basing the character in a world that still seemed relevant.
Bond might wear tailored suits, but he still looked like he combed his own hair. He might drive an expensive car, but he still obeyed laws. Bond might travel to places the average person did not, but the production took the time to make those locations a part of the story so that readers were transported there, too. The villains were given dimension, even as they were fantastic. While Bond handled the derring-do with capacity, he could still be scared, exhausted, uncertain, or exasperated, unlike later films that make him significantly more one-note except in scenes about a specific emotion (Bond is wounded, for instance).
Casino Royale tried to re-create some of this, and often succeeded, but it, too, gave into modern concessions (the long action set pieces in lieu of more developed dialogue scenes, for instance). And while Craig is more suited for the role than most of his predecessors, he, too, plays Bond as more limited in emotional range than, say, Connery or Lazenby.
The issue, therefore, is not so much whether the films develop Fleming qualities so much as which ones they focus on. The modern conceit -- at least the one since the Batman and Bourne films -- has been to focus on the darker elements.
DN
FRWL
GF
TB
OHMSS
TLD
GE
TWINE
SF
To me, these encapsulate everything I want in a Bond film, balancing the sensibilities of Fleming's character and world with the expectations of the ever-evolving film series as we push towards it's 60th year. It's vital to keep the balance as the films above did, because it's what distinguishes this library of films as a separate entity to other espionage thrillers. These aren't singularly action films. Or adventure films. They incorporate espionage with sex, action with humour, culture with bizarre, and if we're especially lucky, social commentary.
TSWLM, FYEO, AVTAK, TND could qualify as well, but I think the absolutely perfect balance are the films above (even if two/three of the four are in my top 10).
as opposed to the earlier Moores and the later Connerys, where they use a couple of names and maybe the setting from the book, but otherwise abandon the source material after the first scene for something much more generic
and I would love to see a period Bond film, the public would not be confused: that first Captain America film was one of the best written of the Marvel Films, and was no less successful at the box office than the others in the series, they should stop assuming the audiences are stoopid
That's my pick too.
As mentioned above by caractacus potts I too agree that FYEO, OP and AVTAK have some really good Fleming elements. In particular the Property of a Lady elements of OP.
"Better make that two."
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[*]Book, Appearance: Black hair, handsome, tanned, slim, tall in context to whatever is accepted as tall today, more than 6 feet flat. The scar would be a bonus[/*]
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[*]Film, Build: By today’s cinematic standards, fit, certainly superior to Robert Shaw as Grant, but not steroid-induced ripples, certainly not a Craig-like physique.[/*]
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[*]Book, Demeanor: Saturnine, sardonic, humorous in an ironic, dark way, but certainly more winsome than Dalton. Make him speak and behave like someone in Bond's social echelon and give him the bearing befitting a Royal Navy officer.[/*]
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[*]Book, Vices: Keep the alcohol intake but bring back the smoking and perhaps the occasional use of uppers (Benzedrine) in preparation for taxing operations.[/*]
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[*]Film, Lifestyle: Keep the nice wardrobe beyond the standard set by Fleming. Elegant but nothing flashy, just enough to convey the stereotype of the well-dressed Englishman (apologies to Barbel). Keep the lifestyle excesses of the movies like the fine food, Dom Perignon champagne, etc. Keep the nice, state-of-the-art British made supercars, or even a “sedate” Bentley.[/*]
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[*]Film, Females: Retain Movie Bond’s voracious appetite for sex and keep out the knight-errant altruism of Book Bond.[/*]
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[*]Book, Secret Service Staff: Keep Bond the shiftless let loyal and reverential agent to M. Make Tanner look like a former Royal Marine who is Bond’s age with hints of being as formidable, at least during his years in the service. Keep Bond’s attraction to Moneypenny and the secretarial pool a “guy thing” between Bond and his fellow agents, but respectable when he’s actually interacting with them. Maybe the only movie character whose trait should be preserved is Q.[/*]
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[*]Book & Film, Plot: The challenge is coming up with plots similar to those in the books that can be gripping in the narrative, yet engaging on film without going to gargantuan, doomsday level plots of the movies, so here it would be ideal to find a perfect balance.[/*]
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(And
No thanks. This is one thing that just doesn't work anymore.
"Better make that two."
Gets my vote. Particularly resonate with the bearing of a Naval officer. My main gripe with the Craig era is that in CR we were promised that by the end he would have 'become Bond' For me he never quite did, he lacked the Polish and the veneer of sophistication. Mrs Zaphod insists that he is a Sergeant Major, and not a fairly high ranking officer and a product of arguably the most elite of public schools (yes I know he was only there for a short time). leaving QoS aside for a moment he seemed to go from rookie to warhorse without pausing at prime.
Have to agree on this. Ignoring the political concerns that would take away his appeal for contemporary audiences, it's just not realistic. If Bond was a smoker again he wouldn't pass his physical and he'd be stuck to a desk job.
By that logic, the Literary Bond and Bond played by Sean Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Brosnan would have never passed their physical exams.
I can agree to Bond not smoking on a certain level, which would be the realm of reality and the known health effects of smoking. However, apart from artistic considerations for the practical such as the initial need to modify the literary character for film audiences, any revisionism to fit whatever newly realized social norm there is, is just plain artistic laziness.
This as we know has been called the PC'ing of Bond and if done any further, some quarters including the film-makers should just question the appeal of the character, if Bond is still relevant or if an entirely new version of the character (preferably not named Bond) is called for to cater to newer audience tastes. It's not that much of a stretch to group other concerns about the character's fundamentals to perhaps make imminent versions a different race, gender, religious affiliation or sexual orientation.
Keeping in mind the more impressionable movie goers, as an adult viewer I'm too jaded to be shocked by sex, alcohol and drug use and violence depicted on film. I do notice that there's been plenty of smoking in movies and shows I've watched recently. Also, it seems the license being taken is often through their setting and several are from the latter decades of the last century; so definitely there's an element of nostalgia that's being aimed towards mature audiences who are not affected as much.
So here you are speaking on practical and not PC terms. Since cigar smoking (which is not inhaled) is not as harmful as cigarette smoking, esp. at the levels of Fleming's Bond, cigar smoking should be okay with little effect on Bond's physicality, right?
If you're going for realism, wouldn't Bond's alcohol consumption affect his health and "realistically" prevent the physicality he performs on screen? We all know that the daily consumption of hard liquor results in clogged arteries that in turn affects cardio-vascular performance, a damaged liver and a heightened vulnerability to cancer to the mouth, throat, esophagus, stomach, liver, etc., as well as the killing of brain cells at an accelerated rate.
Bond is a fantasy, just as the ill effects of Literary Bond's lifestyle didn't extend beyond his poor shape in TB, which was considerably mild. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been able to swim for several miles underwater on several occasions, jog on the sands of the Lido in Venice, or undertake a night and day trek in the wilderness of Canada and Vermont.
Agree. It is no longer seen as cool to smoke.
That's probably why they had Moore stop after TMWTGG. But it certainly wasn't cool when Dalton was Bond, though he did it anyway.
I think that was part of a concerted effort to return more to the flavour of the literary James Bond and, by extension, the early Connery Bond films. I think it suited Dalton's Bond to smoke. I don't smoke myself incidentally.
Sure, it was. But I don't find Dalton's smoking to add any flavour to his Bond films. It doesn't take away anything either. It's a very subtle element of his character. The one time in Goldfinger when Connery smokes does a lot more than any time Dalton smokes in his two films.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/3651838/Shaking-off-the-bonds-of-007.html
" I don't find Dalton's smoking to add any flavour to his Bond films."
Maybe you don't find it so, but sure it did. Dalton's unabashed and comparatively frequent cigarette smoking was a stark change to the character after almost 18 years of no cigarettes for Bond, which was unanimously noticed by viewers and critics alike. That, along with other things he did differently, painted a non-establishment, non-apologetic and insufferable Bond that was a refreshing change and it significantly lent to his edgier image.
You are correct, however, that his smoking didn’t take away anything from his portrayal, due in large part to PC attitudes that were just in their infancy at that time. Paradoxically, the beginnings of social awareness in the 80s made Dalton’s smoking just a bit more taboo and counter-culture "cool" compared to when Connery and Lazenby smoked in an era when doing so with children present was a non-issue.
"Better make that two."
I never argued that it did, nor do I think it does. But for reasons of sophistication, isn't Bond's continuing drinking habit inconsistent with that line of thinking?
Gambling and womanising.
So do you think the Bond character really only appears in 7 films? I don't count cigars since Fleming's Bond didn't smoke them.
for years.
The question posed on this thread is about the right balance between the literary and cinematic versions of Bond, not which specific traits precisely define who is James Bond. The "right balance" has been largely subjective across the board. However, a fundamental generalization of the character is one who is a hedonist of pleasures and vices among other signature traits, which has been consistent for the past 24 EON Bond films, 3 non-EON productions, 14 Fleming Books, continuation novels, comics, pastiches, etc.
Also, Bond really isn't a spy in the films anymore. Starting with Brosnan, James Bond turned into a pure action hero. The action stopped following the story, and the story started following the action. To me, that isn't Bond. With all of the concessions the films make to today's world, is it possible to bring back more of Fleming's type of story to the films? I know it's no longer the cold war, but it's not like today's world has become the world of shoot outs. Well, unfortunately it has in America. But that's not what I'd like to think of the world.