Common misconceptions about Bond

I thought it would be fun to have a topic dedicated to common misconceptions about James Bond. I have noticed quite a few circulating among the despicable group known as the general public, but I am sure there are more and it probably varies among regions and age groups?

So, I'll start and look forward to what you can come up with.

1. Bond is English

Well, literary Bond was most likely originally intended as an Englishmen, but according to the "official" biography he was the son of a Scot and a Swiss woman, and born in Wattenscheid, Germany (of all places). Fleming allegedly added the Scottish heritage later when he changed his originally unfavorable opinion of Sean Connery.

2. He must therefore always be played by English actors

Very commonly uttered in discussions about the next Bond, this is plainly wrong.
Bond actors have included a Scotsman (Connery), Australian (Lazenby), Welshman (Dalton), and Irishman (Brosnan).

3. Bond is a sexist, misogynist dinosaur

I have always disagreed with this one, as much as I like the dialogue between Dench and Brosnan in that scene. To be fair I have not yet read all of the novels (shame, I know), and there may be some evidence to it there.
But movie-wise, I think although we see Connery-Bond smacking bottoms, choking women with their bikinis and excluding them from "man talk", and Craig-Bond calling Vesper a "bloody idiot" and "bitch", I think Bond has nothing whatsoever against women. The sexism of the 1960s was probably not limited to James Bond movies, and considering how many men he has killed over the years, some of them in cold blood, Bond should, by that flawed logic, be called a misandrist if anything.

Speaking of killing

4. Bond is an assassin

This claim actually has some merit, but is at least debatable. More on that here: http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/46885/is-james-bond-an-assassin/

5. The movies feed on out-dated clichés, because the villains are always "the Russians"

I don't know about you, but I hear this a lot here in Germany, possibly stemming from the fact that people think they remember Russian villains from Goldeneye, which came out after the fall of the Soviet Union. People who actually watch the movies however know that while a lot of them are indirectly linked to the Cold War, most feature "rogue" or lone operator villains, which was sometimes (as in FRWL) changed deliberately to avoid real-life political tensions.

6. Bond always drinks Martini

Vodka Martini. Small but important difference (and don't get me started about the confusion caused by Baccardi branding their Vermouth as "Martini"...)

7. Bond thinks of women as disposable pleasures, rather than meaningful pursuits

Can you blame a guy when in the two cases where he fell in love and was ready to commit and leave his job for them (or, indeed, married already) had the girl either murdered or her commiting suicide?

8. Maybe James Bond is just a code-name

No. It is not.

9.....

to be continued :)
"I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
"- That is something to be afraid of."

Comments

  • Agent LeeAgent Lee Posts: 254MI6 Agent
    I don't think Bond has anything "against" women, but he is a misogynist. Being a misogynist doesn't necessarily mean you have a problem with women or you have something against them. In Bond's case I think it means he has misconceptions and gender-based stereotypes that drive his interactions with them. I don't think it's a negative thing though. In fact, it's one of the most interesting things about the character. Bond's misogyny is very much his own, and it sets him apart from other male characters of the same type.
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  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    Agent Lee wrote:
    I don't think Bond has anything "against" women, but he is a misogynist. Being a misogynist doesn't necessarily mean you have a problem with women or you have something against them. In Bond's case I think it means he has misconceptions and gender-based stereotypes that drive his interactions with them. I don't think it's a negative thing though. In fact, it's one of the most interesting things about the character. Bond's misogyny is very much his own, and it sets him apart from other male characters of the same type.

    Actually, a misogynist is someone who has a problem with women. It is defined as a "hatred or dislike of, or prejudice against women." I never saw Bond as a misogynist, he just has some outdated attitudes towards women that have slowly gone away. But Craig sees Bond as a misogynist.
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  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,856Chief of Staff

    1. Bond is English

    Well, literary Bond was most likely originally intended as an Englishmen, but according to the "official" biography he was the son of a Scot and a Swiss woman, and born in Wattenscheid, Germany (of all places). Fleming allegedly added the Scottish heritage later when he changed his originally unfavorable opinion of Sean Connery.

    2. He must therefore always be played by English actors

    Very commonly uttered in discussions about the next Bond, this is plainly wrong.
    Bond actors have included a Scotsman (Connery), Australian (Lazenby), Welshman (Dalton), and Irishman (Brosnan).

    Thank you.
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Agent Lee wrote:
    I don't think Bond has anything "against" women, but he is a misogynist. Being a misogynist doesn't necessarily mean you have a problem with women or you have something against them. In Bond's case I think it means he has misconceptions and gender-based stereotypes that drive his interactions with them. I don't think it's a negative thing though. In fact, it's one of the most interesting things about the character. Bond's misogyny is very much his own, and it sets him apart from other male characters of the same type.

    Actually, a misogynist is someone who has a problem with women. It is defined as a "hatred or dislike of, or prejudice against women." I never saw Bond as a misogynist, he just has some outdated attitudes towards women that have slowly gone away. But Craig sees Bond as a misogynist.

    The movie Bond’s attitude toward women is a direct adaptation of the book Bond and we know though not 100%, Bond inherited much of his worldview from his creator. From Page 161 of “Ian Fleming” by Andrew Lycett:

    [After Ian Fleming enlisted his friend, Alan Schneider to help him get rid of a drunk, female US Army captain and avoided talking about it ever again...] “Schneider attributed this eccentric behavior to Ian’s ruthlessness towards women. Whether they were well-born Englishwomen or US Army officers, “he treated them all the same way. He got bored with them fast and could be brutal about it. He had absolutely no jealousy. He explained to me that women were not worth that much emotion. But with it all, he had an abiding and continual interest in sex with out any sense of shame or guilt.” Ian told Schneider crudely that “women were like pets, like dogs, men were the only real human beings, the only ones he could be friends with”.”

    Of course, Fleming knew better than to be this blatant when writing for the world and he portrayed Bond to be caring toward women through his thoughts and attitudes. But action speaks a lot louder than words, even in narrative. IMO, this attitude even made its way to the movies when Bond seemed nearly unaffected by the deaths of Tania Mallet in GF or Aki in YOLT.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    These comments are about the films:

    1. Bond is a lady-killer. If you read the books and watch the earliest films, Bond gets involved primarily with social climbers and "damaged" women. It's not so much that Bond is attractive to all women as he is to certain ones, and usually those who are trying to use him for something. Even in the Moore years, which arguably are the worst at presenting Bond's prowess, he still tends to get involved with only certain types of women.

    2.) Connery's Bond was indestructible. Actually, Connery's Bond takes a beating in quite a few of the films. And Connery's Bond looks beaten, worried, angry, frightened, and so forth. What the filmmakers did was work to make his efforts to conceal it obvious but under the outward appearance of humor and stoicism, which increased over the course of the films, but Connery still shows Bond to be affected by his travails.

    3.) Bond is a misogynist. Misogyny involves the hatred of women. Bond did not hate women. One could argue that he is sexist, but then one could argue all men are by definition sexist in a patriarchal society. Bond clearly did not like certain kinds of women -- generally the ones trying to kill him -- and he clearly read types of women well -- the ones who wanted him sexually but played hard to get. These are concepts lost in the modern thinking about sexism, where the definitions are far less nuanced. Thus, a viewer in 1964 would be unlikely to see the Goldfinger barn seen as rape, but a viewer in 2016 would be very likely to see it as so, regardless of the intent of the filmmakers. If we are to assume Bond is misogynist because of how he treats some women, we must assume he is racist because of how he treats some members of races.

    4.) Bond is consumed by his childhood depression. In the books, Bond goes through myriad emotions, and he does in the earlier films as well. He is not defined by a single moment of his life any more than the rest of us typically are. The later films treat him as a Bruce Wayne-like psychological mess, but while Bond has his bouts of depression, he is by an large more than just a functioning basket-case.

    5.) Bond must always rebel. In many of the films, Bond is seen as being petulant and occasionally disobeying orders. This has essentially become part of the formula by now, but the reality is that Bond follows procedure the vast majority of time. If nothing else, he relies on them to get him through. What Bond does often do is exercise the critical thinking an agent in the field must have to operate when out of contact with his or her home base.

    6.) Bond is a free-thinking progressive. Movie heroes often are presented as rather liberal in their ideology, but Bond really is quite conservative, defending the realm against attack. While he has a strong moral streak, he seems far more likely to keep things as they are than to move them forward.

    7.) Bond always thinks he's right. Movie Bond, especially early on, takes time to figure out the mystery, and he more than once makes a bad decision. He recovers but sometimes at great expense. While Bond in the later films seems much more confident and accurate, he can make mistakes.
  • hehadlotsofgutshehadlotsofguts Durham England Posts: 2,112MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    These comments are about the films:

    1. Bond is a lady-killer. If you read the books and watch the earliest films, Bond gets involved primarily with social climbers and "damaged" women. It's not so much that Bond is attractive to all women as he is to certain ones, and usually those who are trying to use him for something. Even in the Moore years, which arguably are the worst at presenting Bond's prowess, he still tends to get involved with only certain types of women.

    2.) Connery's Bond was indestructible. Actually, Connery's Bond takes a beating in quite a few of the films. And Connery's Bond looks beaten, worried, angry, frightened, and so forth. What the filmmakers did was work to make his efforts to conceal it obvious but under the outward appearance of humor and stoicism, which increased over the course of the films, but Connery still shows Bond to be affected by his travails.

    3.) Bond is a misogynist. Misogyny involves the hatred of women. Bond did not hate women. One could argue that he is sexist, but then one could argue all men are by definition sexist in a patriarchal society. Bond clearly did not like certain kinds of women -- generally the ones trying to kill him -- and he clearly read types of women well -- the ones who wanted him sexually but played hard to get. These are concepts lost in the modern thinking about sexism, where the definitions are far less nuanced. Thus, a viewer in 1964 would be unlikely to see the Goldfinger barn seen as rape, but a viewer in 2016 would be very likely to see it as so, regardless of the intent of the filmmakers. If we are to assume Bond is misogynist because of how he treats some women, we must assume he is racist because of how he treats some members of races.

    4.) Bond is consumed by his childhood depression. In the books, Bond goes through myriad emotions, and he does in the earlier films as well. He is not defined by a single moment of his life any more than the rest of us typically are. The later films treat him as a Bruce Wayne-like psychological mess, but while Bond has his bouts of depression, he is by an large more than just a functioning basket-case.

    5.) Bond must always rebel. In many of the films, Bond is seen as being petulant and occasionally disobeying orders. This has essentially become part of the formula by now, but the reality is that Bond follows procedure the vast majority of time. If nothing else, he relies on them to get him through. What Bond does often do is exercise the critical thinking an agent in the field must have to operate when out of contact with his or her home base.

    6.) Bond is a free-thinking progressive. Movie heroes often are presented as rather liberal in their ideology, but Bond really is quite conservative, defending the realm against attack. While he has a strong moral streak, he seems far more likely to keep things as they are than to move them forward.

    7.) Bond always thinks he's right. Movie Bond, especially early on, takes time to figure out the mystery, and he more than once makes a bad decision. He recovers but sometimes at great expense. While Bond in the later films seems much more confident and accurate, he can make mistakes.

    Bond is a know- it all

    This happened a lot during the Roger Moore era. Bond would recall a villain's dossier from memory at the drop of a hat, but he would have a vague idea about certain other subjects. An example would be in Dr No where he gives M a definition of what toppling is, but the tone of his voice indicates he's unsure.
    Have you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclamation?"

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  • Agent LeeAgent Lee Posts: 254MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Agent Lee wrote:
    I don't think Bond has anything "against" women, but he is a misogynist. Being a misogynist doesn't necessarily mean you have a problem with women or you have something against them. In Bond's case I think it means he has misconceptions and gender-based stereotypes that drive his interactions with them. I don't think it's a negative thing though. In fact, it's one of the most interesting things about the character. Bond's misogyny is very much his own, and it sets him apart from other male characters of the same type.

    Actually, a misogynist is someone who has a problem with women. It is defined as a "hatred or dislike of, or prejudice against women." I never saw Bond as a misogynist, he just has some outdated attitudes towards women that have slowly gone away. But Craig sees Bond as a misogynist.

    Fair enough. I guess I should have said then that he's a sexist in his own way, but maybe not a misogynist.
    Wish I Was at Disneyland, podcast about Disneyland, Disney news, Disney movies, Star Wars, and life in Southern California.
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  • Gassy ManGassy Man USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
    Gassy Man wrote:
    These comments are about the films:

    1. Bond is a lady-killer. If you read the books and watch the earliest films, Bond gets involved primarily with social climbers and "damaged" women. It's not so much that Bond is attractive to all women as he is to certain ones, and usually those who are trying to use him for something. Even in the Moore years, which arguably are the worst at presenting Bond's prowess, he still tends to get involved with only certain types of women.

    2.) Connery's Bond was indestructible. Actually, Connery's Bond takes a beating in quite a few of the films. And Connery's Bond looks beaten, worried, angry, frightened, and so forth. What the filmmakers did was work to make his efforts to conceal it obvious but under the outward appearance of humor and stoicism, which increased over the course of the films, but Connery still shows Bond to be affected by his travails.

    3.) Bond is a misogynist. Misogyny involves the hatred of women. Bond did not hate women. One could argue that he is sexist, but then one could argue all men are by definition sexist in a patriarchal society. Bond clearly did not like certain kinds of women -- generally the ones trying to kill him -- and he clearly read types of women well -- the ones who wanted him sexually but played hard to get. These are concepts lost in the modern thinking about sexism, where the definitions are far less nuanced. Thus, a viewer in 1964 would be unlikely to see the Goldfinger barn seen as rape, but a viewer in 2016 would be very likely to see it as so, regardless of the intent of the filmmakers. If we are to assume Bond is misogynist because of how he treats some women, we must assume he is racist because of how he treats some members of races.

    4.) Bond is consumed by his childhood depression. In the books, Bond goes through myriad emotions, and he does in the earlier films as well. He is not defined by a single moment of his life any more than the rest of us typically are. The later films treat him as a Bruce Wayne-like psychological mess, but while Bond has his bouts of depression, he is by an large more than just a functioning basket-case.

    5.) Bond must always rebel. In many of the films, Bond is seen as being petulant and occasionally disobeying orders. This has essentially become part of the formula by now, but the reality is that Bond follows procedure the vast majority of time. If nothing else, he relies on them to get him through. What Bond does often do is exercise the critical thinking an agent in the field must have to operate when out of contact with his or her home base.

    6.) Bond is a free-thinking progressive. Movie heroes often are presented as rather liberal in their ideology, but Bond really is quite conservative, defending the realm against attack. While he has a strong moral streak, he seems far more likely to keep things as they are than to move them forward.

    7.) Bond always thinks he's right. Movie Bond, especially early on, takes time to figure out the mystery, and he more than once makes a bad decision. He recovers but sometimes at great expense. While Bond in the later films seems much more confident and accurate, he can make mistakes.

    Bond is a know- it all

    This happened a lot during the Roger Moore era. Bond would recall a villain's dossier from memory at the drop of a hat, but he would have a vague idea about certain other subjects. An example would be in Dr No where he gives M a definition of what toppling is, but the tone of his voice indicates he's unsure.
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  • MarcAngeDracoMarcAngeDraco Piz GloriaPosts: 564MI6 Agent
    You just reminded me of yet another inconsistency with CR06.

    Bond "thinks of women as disposable pleasures, rather than meaningful pursuits". Isn't Bond's womanising a product of losing Vesper to his dangerous world?
    Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:

    1. Bond is English

    Well, literary Bond was most likely originally intended as an Englishmen, but according to the "official" biography he was the son of a Scot and a Swiss woman, and born in Wattenscheid, Germany (of all places). Fleming allegedly added the Scottish heritage later when he changed his originally unfavorable opinion of Sean Connery.

    2. He must therefore always be played by English actors

    Very commonly uttered in discussions about the next Bond, this is plainly wrong.
    Bond actors have included a Scotsman (Connery), Australian (Lazenby), Welshman (Dalton), and Irishman (Brosnan).
    Thank you.

    Bond is British, not English. A distinction that is likely to become more defined in the next few years. Many international audiences may not be fully aware of or care about the distinction and Bond is often synonymous with Englishness. For me it's important and contributes to Bond's 'outsider status'. He works for the establishment, but doesn't quite fit within it.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,856Chief of Staff
    zaphod99 wrote:
    Barbel wrote:

    1. Bond is English

    Well, literary Bond was most likely originally intended as an Englishmen, but according to the "official" biography he was the son of a Scot and a Swiss woman, and born in Wattenscheid, Germany (of all places). Fleming allegedly added the Scottish heritage later when he changed his originally unfavorable opinion of Sean Connery.

    2. He must therefore always be played by English actors

    Very commonly uttered in discussions about the next Bond, this is plainly wrong.
    Bond actors have included a Scotsman (Connery), Australian (Lazenby), Welshman (Dalton), and Irishman (Brosnan).
    Thank you.

    Bond is British, not English. A distinction that is likely to become more defined in the next few years. Many international audiences may not be fully aware of or care about the distinction and Bond is often synonymous with Englishness. For me it's important and contributes to Bond's 'outsider status'. He works for the establishment, but doesn't quite fit within it.

    And thank you, too.
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    You just reminded me of yet another inconsistency with CR06.

    Bond "thinks of women as disposable pleasures, rather than meaningful pursuits". Isn't Bond's womanising a product of losing Vesper to his dangerous world?
    Well he pretty much treats solange as a disposable pleasure, as well as a means of information I suppose, but that line is Vesper sumising about bond, and she's pretty inaccurate, ex sas....erm no, Rolex? Erm nope keeping my eyes off your perfectly formed arse? Erm only until he's had his goody bag severely whacked!
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • MarcAngeDracoMarcAngeDraco Piz GloriaPosts: 564MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    You just reminded me of yet another inconsistency with CR06.

    Bond "thinks of women as disposable pleasures, rather than meaningful pursuits". Isn't Bond's womanising a product of losing Vesper to his dangerous world?
    Well he pretty much treats solange as a disposable pleasure

    My point exactly...

    And how would Vesper know that about Bond having just me him, let alone have the audacity to pull him up on it. Fleming would have hated what they did to his book.
    Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    edited September 2016
    I always took that wordplay as Vesper being overly prickly towards bond to kind of stave off any advances from him. Like I said she surmises these things but she's wrong of course, and I think she starts that dialogue along the "it wouldn't be hard to imagine you treat women...." casino Royale is my favourite novel and I don't mind cr06 at all. I've never liked bond being labelled as a misogynist.
    Generally though and pointing no fingers at any film or actor ( I love them all) I think any characterisation of Bond should hold Fleming's original key character aspects dear, I'm not sure why certain aspects of the novels are dropeed in the films, I love the beginning of CR and thought it could look wonderfully on film.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • OrnithologistOrnithologist BerlinPosts: 585MI6 Agent
    Well I think we can count Matt Damon among the mis-concepted :))
    Chriscoop wrote:
    I think any characterisation of Bond should hold Fleming's original key character aspects dear

    That's why I sincerely hope we'll get a new actor who is behind that. Like Dalton who is said to have read all the books and referenced them even while shooting the films.
    "I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
    "- That is something to be afraid of."
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