I'm still convinced we could get a solid, well acted bond film with good locations and decent action for less than sp cost. The fact is despite sp's huge budget it was still mauled by critics and a lot of fans! (though why any bond fan would maul any bond film escapes me) sure it took decent money and did good business but I don't think this is relevant to the budget. It's more to do with following on from skyfalls huge success.
We did get a well acted Bond film with good locations and decent action for less money than SPECTRE (and QOS) - and it was Skyfall.
I may be one to maul certain Bond films, including SPECTRE, but there is still lots I enjoy in them - for SP, namely the PTS, Lucia, Hinx, Q, Bond's lift to the lair, the cinematography, etc.
Film: Tomorrow Never Dies | Girl: Teresa di Vicenzo | Villain: Max Zorin | Car: Aston Martin Volante | Novel: You Only Live Twice | Bond: Sir Sean Connery
There are certain aspects of a lot of bonds I don't love but as I enjoy a lot of other aspects I go short of mauling them, I don't think you maul them Marc, just debate your disappointments as I do. Still point is big budget doesn't mean great film.
There are certain aspects of a lot of bonds I don't love but as I enjoy a lot of other aspects I go short of mauling them, I don't think you maul them Marc, just debate your disappointments as I do. Still point is big budget doesn't mean great film.
I'm of the opinion that a smaller budget would curtail some of the excesses as it has done previously. I recall looking at my watch during the PTS and car chase on opening night.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
There are certain aspects of a lot of bonds I don't love but as I enjoy a lot of other aspects I go short of mauling them, I don't think you maul them Marc, just debate your disappointments as I do. Still point is big budget doesn't mean great film.
I'm of the opinion that a smaller budget would curtail some of the excesses as it has done previously. I recall looking at my watch during the PTS and car chase on opening night.
I enjoyed the pts, but agree the Rome car chase seemed a bit convoluted, and not particularly exciting, as I've said before Ronin has a very long car chase through Paris but it's very exciting and tense. I also think Rome could have been shown better for bonds first visit there. And the cost of that chase!! Way too expensive for a in car chat to moneypenny.
I enjoyed the pts, but agree the Rome car chase seemed a bit convoluted, and not particularly exciting, as I've said before Ronin has a very long car chase through Paris but it's very exciting and tense. I also think Rome could have been shown better for bonds first visit there. And the cost of that chase!! Way too expensive for a in car chat to moneypenny.
I always get a better feeling that Simon Templar went to Rome, when it was only shot at Elstree.
Since this thread is about budget and cinematography, LTK was visually lush and atmospheric, among the best to use the Bahamas or wherever the ocean scenes were shot so that you felt you were there. Since there's been discussion about the desert scenes in SP, in LTK, you also felt you were there.
There are certain aspects of a lot of bonds I don't love but as I enjoy a lot of other aspects I go short of mauling them, I don't think you maul them Marc, just debate your disappointments as I do. Still point is big budget doesn't mean great film.
I'm of the opinion that a smaller budget would curtail some of the excesses as it has done previously. I recall looking at my watch during the PTS and car chase on opening night.
I enjoyed the pts, but agree the Rome car chase seemed a bit convoluted, and not particularly exciting, as I've said before Ronin has a very long car chase through Paris but it's very exciting and tense. I also think Rome could have been shown better for bonds first visit there. And the cost of that chase!! Way too expensive for a in car chat to moneypenny.
Indeed. Ronin is the 'gold standard ' for car chases. I appreciate that (Spectre) was an attempt to do different and subvert/invert the standard approach but it cost a lot for very little benefit in my view.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I'm of the opinion that a smaller budget would curtail some of the excesses as it has done previously. I recall looking at my watch during the PTS and car chase on opening night.
I enjoyed the pts, but agree the Rome car chase seemed a bit convoluted, and not particularly exciting, as I've said before Ronin has a very long car chase through Paris but it's very exciting and tense. I also think Rome could have been shown better for bonds first visit there. And the cost of that chase!! Way too expensive for a in car chat to moneypenny.
Indeed. Ronin is the 'gold standard ' for car chases. I appreciate that (Spectre) was an attempt to do different and subvert/invert the standard approach but it cost a lot for very little benefit in my view.
I enjoyed the pts, but agree the Rome car chase seemed a bit convoluted, and not particularly exciting, as I've said before Ronin has a very long car chase through Paris but it's very exciting and tense. I also think Rome could have been shown better for bonds first visit there. And the cost of that chase!! Way too expensive for a in car chat to moneypenny.
I always get a better feeling that Simon Templar went to Rome, when it was only shot at Elstree.
Yes a man with a cap in a fiat listening to opera does not Rome make, the sweeping initial shot of the city is similar to the old way of doing things or indeed sf when we get a shot of the city scape, then the rest of shanghai filled in the studio or the London hotel.
To be honest guys, I don't think they were going for an all out action car chase, but more
A fun, Bond v Tilly in Goldfinger ( not an identical chase) but more for amusement. Which
In my opinion worked, in all the screenings I went to, everyone laughed in all the right places.
I still have a giggle at the old bloke and the airbag, and Bond's concern if Moneypenny's new
Boyfriend is good enough for her. I'm guessing to lighten the mood after the horrible death
Of Señor Guerra. ( Always worth keeping an eye out for )
For some B*lls to the wall car action, the pts chase of QOS holds up very well, to other car Chase
Movies. -{
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I'm still convinced we could get a solid, well acted bond film with good locations and decent action for less than sp cost. The fact is despite sp's huge budget it was still mauled by critics and a lot of fans! (though why any bond fan would maul any bond film escapes me) sure it took decent money and did good business but I don't think this is relevant to the budget. It's more to do with following on from skyfalls huge success.
I am, too, but it's not going to happen so long as the current thinking is to spend much & show little. Skyfall shouldn't have cost as much either, as it suffers from a lot of "minimalism" and a dumb script, too.
I enjoyed the pts, but agree the Rome car chase seemed a bit convoluted, and not particularly exciting, as I've said before Ronin has a very long car chase through Paris but it's very exciting and tense. I also think Rome could have been shown better for bonds first visit there. And the cost of that chase!! Way too expensive for a in car chat to moneypenny.
I always get a better feeling that Simon Templar went to Rome, when it was only shot at Elstree.
Yes a man with a cap in a fiat listening to opera does not Rome make, the sweeping initial shot of the city is similar to the old way of doing things or indeed sf when we get a shot of the city scape, then the rest of shanghai filled in the studio or the London hotel.
That's a TV move from budgetary considerations, but it's more or less, too, the modern take for filmmaking -- it's the old guy in the car in Spectre, the fight at the lair, the helicopter chase at the end, Bond and Silva alone in more than one scene in Skyfall, Bond and M driving through Scotland, and on and on. And it shouldn't cost a few hundred million.
To be honest guys, I don't think they were going for an all out action car chase, but more
A fun, Bond v Tilly in Goldfinger ( not an identical chase) but more for amusement. Which
In my opinion worked, in all the screenings I went to, everyone laughed in all the right places.
I still have a giggle at the old bloke and the airbag, and Bond's concern if Moneypenny's new
Boyfriend is good enough for her. I'm guessing to lighten the mood after the horrible death
Of Señor Guerra. ( Always worth keeping an eye out for )
For some B*lls to the wall car action, the pts chase of QOS holds up very well, to other car Chase
Movies. -{
I enjoy the sp car chase for what it is ( I also hold the qos car chase in high regard) but it could have been shot anywhere, the very costly Rome filming permits and the huge Rome clean up operation could have been used for a better Rome sequence, I mean they even moved blenhiem palace to Rome which is probably why it cost 250 million to film that car chase.
I enjoyed the pts, but agree the Rome car chase seemed a bit convoluted, and not particularly exciting, as I've said before Ronin has a very long car chase through Paris but it's very exciting and tense. I also think Rome could have been shown better for bonds first visit there. And the cost of that chase!! Way too expensive for a in car chat to moneypenny.
I always get a better feeling that Simon Templar went to Rome, when it was only shot at Elstree.
Yes a man with a cap in a fiat listening to opera does not Rome make, the sweeping initial shot of the city is similar to the old way of doing things or indeed sf when we get a shot of the city scape, then the rest of shanghai filled in the studio or the London hotel.
To be fair, SP does make Rome look prettier than its reality by the way its roads were marvelously free from bumper-to-bumper traffic and the throngs of tourists; maybe that's where the error lay, the absence of these elements that could have been augmented via CGI. I liked the locations they used, particularly in the funeral scene and if I'm not mistaken that place, Sciarra's villa and the Spectre meeting place are in the neoclassical style of Mussolini's modernisation project.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
I think it's wrong to blame SP's issues on budget alone. I think it has more to do with Mendes, the writers and Craig. I get the feeling that both Mendes and Craig at that point were "one more and done".
I also don't think there's anything wrong with how any of these films look and feel, it's more that SP suffers from a Roger Moore film, a Brosnan film and a Marvel comic book film all added to a blender with a SF garnish. It's a mess! Even that at $100m less would still be the same.
I think it's wrong to blame SP's issues on budget alone. I think it has more to do with Mendes, the writers and Craig. I get the feeling that both Mendes and Craig at that point were "one more and done".
I agree. The budget and look of the film hardly bother me as much as the story problems. The brothers problem, the connecting everything problem and the problem of there being too much going on for Bond to handle everything. Though as much as I dislike Craig as Bond, he's the last person I will blame. The worst thing he's responsible for is wanting to wear suits that he can't fit into.
Though as much as I dislike Craig as Bond, he's the last person I will blame.
Craig is billed as a co-producer. Whether or not that means anything... {:)
Well, I assumed he isn't responsible for the Austin Powers-esque elements of SP since he talked about how Austin Powers ruined things for James Bond. But that could have just been his sarcasm.
I think it's wrong to blame SP's issues on budget alone. I think it has more to do with Mendes, the writers and Craig. I get the feeling that both Mendes and Craig at that point were "one more and done".
I agree. The budget and look of the film hardly bother me as much as the story problems. The brothers problem, the connecting everything problem and the problem of there being too much going on for Bond to handle everything. Though as much as I dislike Craig as Bond, he's the last person I will blame. The worst thing he's responsible for is wanting to wear suits that he can't fit into.
I also agree, but this is a chat about the budget of the James bond films, it's fine having a huge budget, but obviously if the film is not received well that's bad business and jeopardises future bonds.
I think it's wrong to blame SP's issues on budget alone. I think it has more to do with Mendes, the writers and Craig. I get the feeling that both Mendes and Craig at that point were "one more and done".
I agree. The budget and look of the film hardly bother me as much as the story problems. The brothers problem, the connecting everything problem and the problem of there being too much going on for Bond to handle everything. Though as much as I dislike Craig as Bond, he's the last person I will blame. The worst thing he's responsible for is wanting to wear suits that he can't fit into.
I also agree, but this is a chat about the budget of the James bond films, it's fine having a huge budget, but obviously if the film is not received well that's bad business and jeopardises future bonds.
The topic of this asks "Is the budget a problem"? I don't think it really is a problem. A lower budget wouldn't necessarily mean that the producers put any more focus on writing. With a lower budget Spectre may have had both a bad story and looked bad too. A lower budget alone will not fix any problems. Purvis and Wade can still be hired with a considerable lower budget.
Agreed, but would a lower budget cut the reliance on big budget spectacle and sharpen up, story, character development and script? I just think trimming the fat makes the films more profitable.
Agreed, but would a lower budget cut the reliance on big budget spectacle and sharpen up, story, character development and script? I just think trimming the fat makes the films more profitable.
Trimming the fat often does make a film more profitable, but today it can also just mean more CGI rather than putting the effort into the script. You could just end up with something like the 2010 film Titanic II, where the only thing worse than the script are the cheap special effects.
The budget to me is interesting as some of my favourite scenes from the DC era were the ones at M's home in CR and Skyfall and with Vespers boyfriend in QoS. I would guess they were all filmed at Pinewood and didn't cost that much in comparison to some of the action scenes.
Agreed, but would a lower budget cut the reliance on big budget spectacle and sharpen up, story, character development and script? I just think trimming the fat makes the films more profitable.
Trimming the fat often does make a film more profitable, but today it can also just mean more CGI rather than putting the effort into the script. You could just end up with something like the 2010 film Titanic II, where the only thing worse than the script are the cheap special effects.
This is also true, but the Blofield lair explosion was again very expensive to do for real, yet was not that we'll used, a cgi explosion here would not have been detrimental.
I think it's wrong to blame SP's issues on budget alone. I think it has more to do with Mendes, the writers and Craig. I get the feeling that both Mendes and Craig at that point were "one more and done".
I agree. The budget and look of the film hardly bother me as much as the story problems. The brothers problem, the connecting everything problem and the problem of there being too much going on for Bond to handle everything. Though as much as I dislike Craig as Bond, he's the last person I will blame. The worst thing he's responsible for is wanting to wear suits that he can't fit into.
I don't even think we can blame Daniel for the I'll fitting suits as in his private life he is much better dressed and not particularly prone to the same style. I like a lot of what he wears in Spectre apart from the suits which almost make him look comical, particularly for those of us in the UK old enough to remember Norman Wisdom (Google him if interested)
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I don't even think we can blame Daniel for the I'll fitting suits as in his private life he is much better dressed and not particularly prone to the same style. I like a lot of what he wears in Spectre apart from the suits which almost make him look comical, particularly for those of us in the UK old enough to remember Norman Wisdom (Google him if interested)
Though he wears different styles as Bond, Craig is not so well dressed in his private life either. When he first became Bond he wore much more flattering suits in his private life than he does now. Brunello Cucinelli is not at all right for his body type.
Comments
I may be one to maul certain Bond films, including SPECTRE, but there is still lots I enjoy in them - for SP, namely the PTS, Lucia, Hinx, Q, Bond's lift to the lair, the cinematography, etc.
I'm of the opinion that a smaller budget would curtail some of the excesses as it has done previously. I recall looking at my watch during the PTS and car chase on opening night.
I always get a better feeling that Simon Templar went to Rome, when it was only shot at Elstree.
Agree. -{
Indeed. Ronin is the 'gold standard ' for car chases. I appreciate that (Spectre) was an attempt to do different and subvert/invert the standard approach but it cost a lot for very little benefit in my view.
A fun, Bond v Tilly in Goldfinger ( not an identical chase) but more for amusement. Which
In my opinion worked, in all the screenings I went to, everyone laughed in all the right places.
I still have a giggle at the old bloke and the airbag, and Bond's concern if Moneypenny's new
Boyfriend is good enough for her.
Of Señor Guerra. ( Always worth keeping an eye out for )
For some B*lls to the wall car action, the pts chase of QOS holds up very well, to other car Chase
Movies. -{
To be fair, SP does make Rome look prettier than its reality by the way its roads were marvelously free from bumper-to-bumper traffic and the throngs of tourists; maybe that's where the error lay, the absence of these elements that could have been augmented via CGI. I liked the locations they used, particularly in the funeral scene and if I'm not mistaken that place, Sciarra's villa and the Spectre meeting place are in the neoclassical style of Mussolini's modernisation project.
I also don't think there's anything wrong with how any of these films look and feel, it's more that SP suffers from a Roger Moore film, a Brosnan film and a Marvel comic book film all added to a blender with a SF garnish. It's a mess! Even that at $100m less would still be the same.
"Better make that two."
I agree. The budget and look of the film hardly bother me as much as the story problems. The brothers problem, the connecting everything problem and the problem of there being too much going on for Bond to handle everything. Though as much as I dislike Craig as Bond, he's the last person I will blame. The worst thing he's responsible for is wanting to wear suits that he can't fit into.
After Austin Powers did a huge Joke about it .
Craig is billed as a co-producer. Whether or not that means anything... {:)
"Better make that two."
Well, I assumed he isn't responsible for the Austin Powers-esque elements of SP since he talked about how Austin Powers ruined things for James Bond. But that could have just been his sarcasm.
The topic of this asks "Is the budget a problem"? I don't think it really is a problem. A lower budget wouldn't necessarily mean that the producers put any more focus on writing. With a lower budget Spectre may have had both a bad story and looked bad too. A lower budget alone will not fix any problems. Purvis and Wade can still be hired with a considerable lower budget.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Trimming the fat often does make a film more profitable, but today it can also just mean more CGI rather than putting the effort into the script. You could just end up with something like the 2010 film Titanic II, where the only thing worse than the script are the cheap special effects.
I don't even think we can blame Daniel for the I'll fitting suits as in his private life he is much better dressed and not particularly prone to the same style. I like a lot of what he wears in Spectre apart from the suits which almost make him look comical, particularly for those of us in the UK old enough to remember Norman Wisdom (Google him if interested)
Though he wears different styles as Bond, Craig is not so well dressed in his private life either. When he first became Bond he wore much more flattering suits in his private life than he does now. Brunello Cucinelli is not at all right for his body type.