I will begrudgingly admit that I’m more interested in this book now than I was before, although I’m not sure my interest is positive. I stayed away from Trigger Mortis because, after Solo, I vowed I wouldn’t read another Bond continuation novel set in the 50s/60s.
I will begrudgingly admit that I’m more interested in this book now than I was before, although I’m not sure my interest is positive. I stayed away from Trigger Mortis because, after Solo, I vowed I wouldn’t read another Bond continuation novel set in the 50s/60s.
Oh you're missing out. Trigger Mortis was like reading an undiscovered Fleming.
I am delighted that the release date has been moved up to May for people this side of the pond!
Did anyone else think of the "Sweets for my Sweet" song by the Searchers.
"...And my love not only lasts forever but forever and a day". -{
Loved Trigger Mortis. Excited for this one
“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
I hope it goes a bit into his years in Naval Intelligence - I've always wanted to hear some stories about CMDR Bond's time in WW2.
did you read John Pearson's James Bond: The Authorized Biography of 007? it contains many short untold adventures throughout Bond's career, lotsa stuff from the early years.
I wouldn't say Trigger Mortis was exactly like undiscovered Fleming, at least aside from the 300 words or so Fleming did write. But it was good overall, and did a clever trick of integrating genuine Fleming content and placing the new story into the logical point in Fleming's continuity. I liked it much better than the other recent one-shots, or the Gardner's I've read, so I will definitely be reading this one too.
I was hoping in vain that they would go back to the modern day setting, but I'm excited that Horowitz is back. Curious if there is going to be a Bond Girl/love interest as this is a prequel. Not that Bond can't have flings, but his encounter with Vesper definitely changed his perspective.
I was hoping in vain that they would go back to the modern day setting, but I'm excited that Horowitz is back. Curious if there is going to be a Bond Girl/love interest as this is a prequel. Not that Bond can't have flings, but his encounter with Vesper definitely changed his perspective.
I think Vesper changing Bond’s perspective is a construct of the films. I see no evidence for it in Fleming’s books. Bond allows himself to fall for Vesper in Casino Royale. But after he reads her suicide note, he reverts immediately to the cold bastard that he was for much of the novel.
I agree with you that they should go back to the modern setting (and maybe after this they will), but a lot of people here seem to be excited about another Horowitz novel, so perhaps I will give it a chance.
It's funny, because I much prefer the literary Bond to be set in the 50's and 60's.
In fact one of my dreams is a Netflix James Bond series, where they adapt the books in the period they are set. 2 books a season, and maybe the short stories as web extras:-) It could be the new Mad Men!
In fact I would be up for a return to the Cold War Bond in the films after Craig's run...but that will never happen:)
Curious if there is going to be a Bond Girl/love interest as this is a prequel. Not that Bond can't have flings, but his encounter with Vesper definitely changed his perspective.
I think Vesper changing Bond’s perspective is a construct of the films. I see no evidence for it in Fleming’s books. Bond allows himself to fall for Vesper in Casino Royale. But after he reads her suicide note, he reverts immediately to the cold bastard that he was for much of the novel.
I think his affair with Vesper does indeed change his perspective in the books. He's got a lousy attitude to women at the start of the story, and sees Vespers only use as recreation, a reward for himself once the job is done. After the torture scene he does, as you note, fall for her hard. And when he learns the truth reacts in the coldest way possible ("bitch" reprising his very first thoughts about her at the start of the story). I think that is a kneejerk, defensive reaction, but not how he thinks of her in the long term. Some people respond to grief in an inappropriate way, and I would expect a professional government assassin especially to do so. In his line of work he's not supposed to fall for a girl, he's supposed to be cold about these things.
But in OHMSS we learn he's been returning to Royale-le-Eaux once a year to leave flowers on her grave.
His ability to relate healthily to women is part of the long story arc of the series. There's a lot of discussion as to whether a spy can afford a normal relationship in Moonraker. Choosing to do so is considered a security risk, and of course he knows he could be dead tomorrow, condemning any lifepartner to widowhood.
But that's just confirming he did fall hard for Vesper and she changed him. She was definitely not the first woman he'd been involved in (he's a man of the world, squire), and there will no doubt be a BondGirl of some sort in any prequel. I guess the challenge is can Horowitz write a relationship that is appropriate pre-Vesper? It'd have to be pretty shallow compared to what came after, and his attitude suitably prejudiced. Any sort of female-superspy-as-equal would violate continuity, as would I think any deeper romantic feelings beyond "recreation".
in the A View to a Kill short story Bond reminisces about losing his virginity. I think that's the only mention of women before Vesper in Fleming. but I recommend again Pearson's Bond Biography. There's lots of adventures with various ladyfriends prior to the events of Casino... . Pearson asserts Bond was only comfortable with other men's wives, often juggling two or three at the same time. I think Craig claims something similar in the film, which may make this the only element from Pearson's book to get adapted!
Curious if there is going to be a Bond Girl/love interest as this is a prequel. Not that Bond can't have flings, but his encounter with Vesper definitely changed his perspective.
I think Vesper changing Bond’s perspective is a construct of the films. I see no evidence for it in Fleming’s books. Bond allows himself to fall for Vesper in Casino Royale. But after he reads her suicide note, he reverts immediately to the cold bastard that he was for much of the novel.
I think his affair with Vesper does indeed change his perspective in the books. He's got a lousy attitude to women at the start of the story, and sees Vespers only use as recreation, a reward for himself once the job is done. After the torture scene he does, as you note, fall for her hard. And when he learns the truth reacts in the coldest way possible ("bitch" reprising his very first thoughts about her at the start of the story). I think that is a kneejerk, defensive reaction, but not how he thinks of her in the long term. Some people respond to grief in an inappropriate way, and I would expect a professional government assassin especially to do so. In his line of work he's not supposed to fall for a girl, he's supposed to be cold about these things.
But in OHMSS we learn he's been returning to Royale-le-Eaux once a year to leave flowers on her grave.
His ability to relate healthily to women is part of the long story arc of the series. There's a lot of discussion as to whether a spy can afford a normal relationship in Moonraker. Choosing to do so is considered a security risk, and of course he knows he could be dead tomorrow, condemning any lifepartner to widowhood.
But that's just confirming he did fall hard for Vesper and she changed him. She was definitely not the first woman he'd been involved in (he's a man of the world, squire), and there will no doubt be a BondGirl of some sort in any prequel. I guess the challenge is can Horowitz write a relationship that is appropriate pre-Vesper? It'd have to be pretty shallow compared to what came after, and his attitude suitably prejudiced. Any sort of female-superspy-as-equal would violate continuity, as would I think any deeper romantic feelings beyond "recreation".
in the A View to a Kill short story Bond reminisces about losing his virginity. I think that's the only mention of women before Vesper in Fleming. but I recommend again Pearson's Bond Biography. There's lots of adventures with various ladyfriends prior to the events of Casino... . Pearson asserts Bond was only comfortable with other men's wives, often juggling two or three at the same time. I think Craig claims something similar in the film, which may make this the only element from Pearson's book to get adapted!
Nice post. You make some very good points of which I hadn’t thought. -{
Regarding the married women, Deaver also made a similar claim that his Bond was juggling several married women in his rotation.
Curious if there is going to be a Bond Girl/love interest as this is a prequel. Not that Bond can't have flings, but his encounter with Vesper definitely changed his perspective.
I think Vesper changing Bond’s perspective is a construct of the films. I see no evidence for it in Fleming’s books. Bond allows himself to fall for Vesper in Casino Royale. But after he reads her suicide note, he reverts immediately to the cold bastard that he was for much of the novel.
I think his affair with Vesper does indeed change his perspective in the books. He's got a lousy attitude to women at the start of the story, and sees Vespers only use as recreation, a reward for himself once the job is done. After the torture scene he does, as you note, fall for her hard. And when he learns the truth reacts in the coldest way possible ("bitch" reprising his very first thoughts about her at the start of the story). I think that is a kneejerk, defensive reaction, but not how he thinks of her in the long term. Some people respond to grief in an inappropriate way, and I would expect a professional government assassin especially to do so. In his line of work he's not supposed to fall for a girl, he's supposed to be cold about these things.
But in OHMSS we learn he's been returning to Royale-le-Eaux once a year to leave flowers on her grave.
His ability to relate healthily to women is part of the long story arc of the series. There's a lot of discussion as to whether a spy can afford a normal relationship in Moonraker. Choosing to do so is considered a security risk, and of course he knows he could be dead tomorrow, condemning any lifepartner to widowhood.
But that's just confirming he did fall hard for Vesper and she changed him. She was definitely not the first woman he'd been involved in (he's a man of the world, squire), and there will no doubt be a BondGirl of some sort in any prequel. I guess the challenge is can Horowitz write a relationship that is appropriate pre-Vesper? It'd have to be pretty shallow compared to what came after, and his attitude suitably prejudiced. Any sort of female-superspy-as-equal would violate continuity, as would I think any deeper romantic feelings beyond "recreation".
in the A View to a Kill short story Bond reminisces about losing his virginity. I think that's the only mention of women before Vesper in Fleming. but I recommend again Pearson's Bond Biography. There's lots of adventures with various ladyfriends prior to the events of Casino... . Pearson asserts Bond was only comfortable with other men's wives, often juggling two or three at the same time. I think Craig claims something similar in the film, which may make this the only element from Pearson's book to get adapted!
Nice post. You make some very good points of which I hadn’t thought. -{
Regarding the married women, Deaver also made a similar claim that his Bond was juggling several married women in his rotation.
I believe there was a mention of Bond seeing several married women in Moonraker as well.
I hope it goes a bit into his years in Naval Intelligence - I've always wanted to hear some stories about CMDR Bond's time in WW2.
did you read John Pearson's James Bond: The Authorized Biography of 007? it contains many short untold adventures throughout Bond's career, lotsa stuff from the early years.
I haven't read that but i'll definitely give it a go! Thanks for the suggestion -{
Cant wait for the new novel
Trigger Mortis was a great read
the unpublished Fleming bits just add a bit more to it
Hello,
I am new here and have a question regarding the unpublished Fleming material in Trigger Mortis.
Can anyone tell me which part of the story is from Fleming?
Or is this impossible to determine?
Hello,
I am new here and have a question regarding the unpublished Fleming material in Trigger Mortis.
Can anyone tell me which part of the story is from Fleming?
Or is this impossible to determine?
I think the chapter with the car race uses the
Fleming material.
he discusses it a bit in the Acknowledgements section.
He says there is a chunk in Chapter Two of dialog and description, where Bond meets with M and Tanner, that is Flemings actual writing, "about 400 or 500 words". (400 words is not much at all. This post is maybe 300 words.)
The title of Chapter Seven ("Murder on Wheels") is the same as the proposed title for the tv episode, and I would guess this chapter covers the climax of Fleming's plot outline. He also says Fleming's outline had Bond being trained for the race by real life driver Stirling Moss, and Horowitz decided to replace the real life historical person with a new fictional character. (Actually this bit of the Acknowledgements consists largely of a genuine Fleming quote from his synopsis, giving a taste of Fleming's writing style in these plot outlines ... it is not prose)
So I guess the training scenes, as well as the race itself, were fleshed out from Fleming's barebones outline. None of the stuff with Pussy Galore, and presumably nothing that happens after the race.
But yeh, it is not clear which words are Fleming's, and since my paperback has Fleming's name in letters almost as big as Horowitz's, I think it would be more honest to specify exactly what Fleming's contribution is. Maybe include the original plot outline as a bonus feature so we can compare?
Personally I would love a book just of Fleming's various unfinished Bond related fragments, no need to complete them.
On the positive side I just noticed Horowitz says there were five remaining plot outlines from the abandoned tv series aside from the three stories that were used in FYEO. So where'd he get the material for a prequel from then? Was there to be an origin episode for the tv series, or has he got hold of completely different unfinished Fleming material?
I believe there is a special edition that does just that.
well then I have the wrong edition! Barbel do you have this special edition?
I was thinking: if it was to be a 1/2 hr series, like the first season of Danger Man, those scenes we do know about would add up to about a half hour of plot.
Act 1: Bond meets with M and Tanner
Act 2: training scenes with real life celebrity race car driver
Act 3: the big race
the only thing missing is, I woulda thought Fleming'd have written a part for a Bond Girl.
Here in Spain we are still waiting even for TM, so imagine that special edition...
Could anyone make some photographs of that "Fleming material" and send me via personal message? Of course, they would be just for investigation and research, I won't publish them anywhere. Thanks. -{
awesome! now I know what cover to look for
looks a bit like Gravity's Rainbow, except its black instead of blue and the rocket is oriented horizontally
(if you buy Gravity's Rainbow by mistake it is the better book, but not otherwise Bondlike.)
...though I note the wording is still vague about this "exclusive content from Ian Fleming". And the only comment that claims to have seen the book complains there is nothing extra. Has anybody else actually got a copy of this and can confirm that it does indeed include Fleming's original unused plot outline as an extra?
Here in Spain we are still waiting even for TM, so imagine that special edition...
Could anyone make some photographs of that "Fleming material" and send me via personal message? Of course, they would be just for investigation and research.
Look in your mailbox...
And if anyone else is curious, feel free to PM me.
Comments
Oh you're missing out. Trigger Mortis was like reading an undiscovered Fleming.
I am delighted that the release date has been moved up to May for people this side of the pond!
Great title and love the premise.
I have it preordered on iBooks already!
Twitter: @mybudgetbond1
"...And my love not only lasts forever but forever and a day". -{
Loved Trigger Mortis. Excited for this one
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
Yes really great news-but it is published on 31st May. (which is a Thursday).
I hope Horowitz is allowed to produce a dozen books! they are the next best thing to Fleming.
cheers, Bleuville.
I wouldn't say Trigger Mortis was exactly like undiscovered Fleming, at least aside from the 300 words or so Fleming did write. But it was good overall, and did a clever trick of integrating genuine Fleming content and placing the new story into the logical point in Fleming's continuity. I liked it much better than the other recent one-shots, or the Gardner's I've read, so I will definitely be reading this one too.
I think Vesper changing Bond’s perspective is a construct of the films. I see no evidence for it in Fleming’s books. Bond allows himself to fall for Vesper in Casino Royale. But after he reads her suicide note, he reverts immediately to the cold bastard that he was for much of the novel.
I agree with you that they should go back to the modern setting (and maybe after this they will), but a lot of people here seem to be excited about another Horowitz novel, so perhaps I will give it a chance.
Welcome to AJB! -{
In fact one of my dreams is a Netflix James Bond series, where they adapt the books in the period they are set. 2 books a season, and maybe the short stories as web extras:-) It could be the new Mad Men!
In fact I would be up for a return to the Cold War Bond in the films after Craig's run...but that will never happen:)
Twitter: @mybudgetbond1
But in OHMSS we learn he's been returning to Royale-le-Eaux once a year to leave flowers on her grave.
His ability to relate healthily to women is part of the long story arc of the series. There's a lot of discussion as to whether a spy can afford a normal relationship in Moonraker. Choosing to do so is considered a security risk, and of course he knows he could be dead tomorrow, condemning any lifepartner to widowhood.
But that's just confirming he did fall hard for Vesper and she changed him. She was definitely not the first woman he'd been involved in (he's a man of the world, squire), and there will no doubt be a BondGirl of some sort in any prequel. I guess the challenge is can Horowitz write a relationship that is appropriate pre-Vesper? It'd have to be pretty shallow compared to what came after, and his attitude suitably prejudiced. Any sort of female-superspy-as-equal would violate continuity, as would I think any deeper romantic feelings beyond "recreation".
in the A View to a Kill short story Bond reminisces about losing his virginity. I think that's the only mention of women before Vesper in Fleming. but I recommend again Pearson's Bond Biography. There's lots of adventures with various ladyfriends prior to the events of Casino... . Pearson asserts Bond was only comfortable with other men's wives, often juggling two or three at the same time. I think Craig claims something similar in the film, which may make this the only element from Pearson's book to get adapted!
Say no more...
Nice post. You make some very good points of which I hadn’t thought. -{
Regarding the married women, Deaver also made a similar claim that his Bond was juggling several married women in his rotation.
I believe there was a mention of Bond seeing several married women in Moonraker as well.
Trigger Mortis was a great read
the unpublished Fleming bits just add a bit more to it
I haven't read that but i'll definitely give it a go! Thanks for the suggestion -{
Hello,
I am new here and have a question regarding the unpublished Fleming material in Trigger Mortis.
Can anyone tell me which part of the story is from Fleming?
Or is this impossible to determine?
Fleming material.
Or did Anthony Horowitz mentioned it somewhere?
He says there is a chunk in Chapter Two of dialog and description, where Bond meets with M and Tanner, that is Flemings actual writing, "about 400 or 500 words". (400 words is not much at all. This post is maybe 300 words.)
The title of Chapter Seven ("Murder on Wheels") is the same as the proposed title for the tv episode, and I would guess this chapter covers the climax of Fleming's plot outline. He also says Fleming's outline had Bond being trained for the race by real life driver Stirling Moss, and Horowitz decided to replace the real life historical person with a new fictional character. (Actually this bit of the Acknowledgements consists largely of a genuine Fleming quote from his synopsis, giving a taste of Fleming's writing style in these plot outlines ... it is not prose)
So I guess the training scenes, as well as the race itself, were fleshed out from Fleming's barebones outline. None of the stuff with Pussy Galore, and presumably nothing that happens after the race.
But yeh, it is not clear which words are Fleming's, and since my paperback has Fleming's name in letters almost as big as Horowitz's, I think it would be more honest to specify exactly what Fleming's contribution is. Maybe include the original plot outline as a bonus feature so we can compare?
Personally I would love a book just of Fleming's various unfinished Bond related fragments, no need to complete them.
On the positive side I just noticed Horowitz says there were five remaining plot outlines from the abandoned tv series aside from the three stories that were used in FYEO. So where'd he get the material for a prequel from then? Was there to be an origin episode for the tv series, or has he got hold of completely different unfinished Fleming material?
I believe there is a special edition that does just that.
I was thinking: if it was to be a 1/2 hr series, like the first season of Danger Man, those scenes we do know about would add up to about a half hour of plot.
Act 1: Bond meets with M and Tanner
Act 2: training scenes with real life celebrity race car driver
Act 3: the big race
the only thing missing is, I woulda thought Fleming'd have written a part for a Bond Girl.
Could anyone make some photographs of that "Fleming material" and send me via personal message? Of course, they would be just for investigation and research, I won't publish them anywhere. Thanks. -{
looks a bit like Gravity's Rainbow, except its black instead of blue and the rocket is oriented horizontally
(if you buy Gravity's Rainbow by mistake it is the better book, but not otherwise Bondlike.)
...though I note the wording is still vague about this "exclusive content from Ian Fleming". And the only comment that claims to have seen the book complains there is nothing extra. Has anybody else actually got a copy of this and can confirm that it does indeed include Fleming's original unused plot outline as an extra?
Here is one on eBay for £6.40 right now: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F162851025033
Twitter: @mybudgetbond1
Look in your mailbox...
And if anyone else is curious, feel free to PM me.