FaaD is officially the worst selling of the post-2008 continuation novels. It sold just over 17,000 copies in the first 4 weeks whereas “Solo” sold 25,000...
Maybe if it was actually available for sale in North America some more of us could buy a copy.
Here is the page listing the book from Indigo, Canada's biggest bookstore monopoly, even in Toronto there aren't really any independent competitors left.
Not available til November 6, 2018.
I believe that's the same date for the States (somebody gave the same date upthread, I'm sure).
Given this, either wait until after November to compare sales, or just compare against UK sales for previous books.
Given this, either wait until after November to compare sales, or just compare against UK sales for previous books.
The numbers I posted ARE comparing UK sales for previous books. To be clear and specific, they are comparing the hardcover sales of the various releases, during their first 4 weeks of release, in the UK and Ireland, as reported by Nielsen BookScan UK.
Jellyfish, does this Waterstones edition you've picked up include the original Fleming material as bonus content at the end, or do they simply mean Horowitz has incorporated Fleming's ideas into his story?
if you look back to pg3 of this thread, post 57, the same store was selling a special edition of Trigger Mortis that included Fleming's original synopsis for Murder on Wheels as a bonus feature, whereas most editions regularly available, do not.
I have very sheepishly flicked towards the back of the book (I'm only on page 66), and some of the pages at the end have typewritten pages which have either been photographed or scanned and then printed in the book, so separate from the main story itself. This is the same as my copy of Trigger Mortis, which is also from Waterstones, and has the black cover rather than the standard silver.
And according to the contents page, the bonus Ian Fleming material is called
Russian Roulette
did anybody ever accidentally scan or transcribe the Fleming synopsis from the new book?
I will be buying Forever and a Day when it finally shows up in Canadian bookstores (to be precise, it is on my Christmas wish list) … but Canadian editions of Trigger Mortis did not have the Fleming bonus content and I expect this new one will not either.
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
I just finished the last chapters of FaaD this morning parked overlooking the rugged California coast. I made a special detour to do this and the ambiance just made the experience of this book all the more evocative and gratifying, especially for the setting of the final scenes and the poignancy of the rainbow as it for me conceptually relates to the title.
...just as this does too:
There's a inscription inside the case somewhere, lol
My brief take; loved the ending chapters, particularly the dark humor and the cool ruthlessness of the characters. Bond's one-liners actually reminded me of Daniel Craig's, so I don't know if that's good or bad, lol. Overall, liked this book more than Trigger Mortis, which I really liked, though for me it all boils down to how I enjoy a journey on which a book will take me.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
The Felix Lieter archetypal precursor Reed Griffin. If anything, Bond would feel skeptical at least about working for the CIA again.
I thought the very same thing, and as soon as I had finished reading Forever and a Day I jumped straight into re-reading Casino Royale, looking for some hint that Bond was sceptical about trusting Leiter. I thought maybe that there was something in CR that Horowitz had picked up on, but didn't find any such thing.
FaaD is officially the worst selling of the post-2008 continuation novels. It sold just over 17,000 copies in the first 4 weeks whereas “Solo” sold 25,000...
The one thing I would say is that a lot more people by books on Kindles, iPads and various other devices nowadays conpared to a few years ago. I haven’t bought a newly releases physical book in years. I bought FAAD on iBooks.
I loved your photo. How long did it take you to build that "smoking set?" It is awesome.
Thank you! The centerpiece items are the Morland cigarettes (not real) with box, produced by AJB member SFPROPS. The other items, the large black metal cigarette case and the Ronson lighter came from eBay.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
I read it this week and enjoyed it. The last 15% was very good and brought the rest if the book together.
I'm not sure Fleming would've approved, though. He was one of those Brits who as a real Americanophile (like my father!). The Americans were always good guys
did anybody ever accidentally scan or transcribe the actual Fleming bonus content from the Waterstones edition?
Fleming's original synopsis for the teevee episode, which Horowitz expanded for chapter 7 Russian Roulette?
I believe that Waterstones edition is the only edition that has the Fleming bonus content, definitely not any edition that has ever shown up in bookstores round here
Well, I never got round to doing my review so I'll have a belated bash now.
I enjoyed it. The opening kills didn't quite work for me because I recalled the way they were depicted in John Pearson's fine 'bio' of Bond from the 1960s, which covered his early life, the conceit being that as a journalist he stumbled upon a scoop that Fleming actually based his books on a real person. Now of course as that book went on the premise became less plausible but the early stuff had a raw, authentic feel to it, understated too, and these continuation novels never quite match that.
Moneypenny features and it doesn't quite work, she was never in the Fleming books as much as the films and it seems an unnecessary concession, the idea she'd flirt with Bond straight from the off.
Otherwise I'd suggest that while I very much enjoyed the novel and devoured it in a few days... something nagged. The main thing is that in this book, what Bond gets up to isn't actually terribly exotic. I mean, most of us very well might have done it. It would have been a big treat in dour 1950s Britain but Horrovitz doesn't really cover that much here. A nice French baguette with cheese and red wine... driving in an open top car around the South of France. It's not that amazing. Why, Bond has sex in this and I'd wager even some of us have done that once at least... ) So you read all this and think, okay, what has Bond got that we don't? All he gets is nearly zapped with acid, there's no upside.
Even the sex is a bit pedestrian. It's not the sex of Tatiana Romanova in FRWL appearing in his room with a choker... I mean, that's very risqué in a way even now, but there's nothing saucy or kinky in the continuation novels, probably because you have the Fleming estate breathing down the author's neck. I do think that Bond authors should be in their 40s like Fleming was, any older and it gets a bit Dad dancing... I'm not sure older authors can do the sex scenes, they're probably thinking of their daughters being taken advantage of or something, it's a different perspective.
Most of the modern plots are a bit busy, a bit try hard. You can see why, and they do give value for money, but you don't get the sense that the lingering feel of depression hangs over our hero the way it did in the Fleming novels. The plot has to drive it, but that leads to an odd loss of authenticity and that wonderful observation and description takes a back seat.
I do recall this book being very sunny, quite bleached out almost so reading it gave me a headache. Couldn't remember the title at all, so I thought it was called Carte Blanche and renamed Forever And A Day for the American market.
Horowitz said: "I am very excited to have started my third Bond novel with the continuing support of the Ian Fleming estate. Forever and a Day looked at Bond’s first assignment. Trigger Mortis was mid-career. The new book begins with the death of Scaramanga and Bond’s return from Jamaica to confront an old enemy."
This is excellent news. I've enjoyed Horowitz's first two Bond novels and I admire his work in general, including his TV writing so I am delighted that he gets another crack at Bond. If the new novel turns out to be a good one, then this trilogy of his could turn out to be the strongest run of three novels in the continuation series.
They didn't mention any old Fleming material being used for this one, so I wonder if it will be a 100% Horowitz original this time?
Which old enemies survived? I'd have to have another skim of Fleming to see. Could include henchmen and other subsidiary villains I suppose. Or a character from the first two Horowitz novels.
I'd rather see the new adventure retconned into Fleming's timeline, setting it after the events of ...Golden Gun seems too simple. The continuity geekery was my favourite aspect of his first two.
In Colonel Sun, Amis mentioned two Unseen Missions in the year since ...Golden Gun, though I think only what Fleming wrote is canonical in the Horowitz-verse
"What have I done this year? One trip to the States, on what turns out to be a sort of discourtesy visit, and then that miserable flop out East back in June.'
Bond had been sent to Hong Kong to supervise the conveying to the Red mainland of a certain Chinese and a number of unusual stores. The man had gone missing about the time of Bond's arrival and had been found two days later in an alley off the waterfront with his head almost severed from his body. After another three days, memorable chiefly for a violent and prolonged typhoon, the plan had been cancelled and Bond recalled.
I’d love for Brosnan to read it. Imagine this, he’s reading the book and he is doing it like he did the Goldeneye watch along, ‘Oh I hope this is working because I don’t want to have to do this again’ type of thing. :)
"History isn't kind to men who play God." - DC "I gave him the limp." - PB "Better make that two." - TD
"Keeping British end up, sir." - RM "This never happened to the other fellow." - JL "I must be dreaming." SC
Oh that's a good point, I'd forgotten he mentions not doing much since Jamaica- I remember particularly enjoying that phrase 'discourtesy visit' 😁
Maybe this visit to America will be part of the new book.
In terms of old enemies, of course it could be a previously unseen one, but I was trying to think who survived too. Irma Bunt is only believed to have died I think, and Rosa Klebb's death is just reported in the next book- I guess she could be brought back potentially.
another possibility: Fleming gave a few specific character names when hinting at Unseen Missions. for example in Thunderball, Bond reminisces
"...he reflected that the ''bad fall'' had probably been when he had had to jump from the Arlberg Express after Heinkel and his friends had caught up with him around the time of the Hungarian uprising in 1956."
so Heinkel is a genuine Fleming villain we never actually saw in Fleming. Bringing Heinkel back would be an excuse for a new adventure and a "previously unseen" flashback to the middle of Fleming's timeline.
Though Pearson already told us a version of that story in the Bond Biography, just as he revealed Irma Bunt had survived.
Oh that's a good point, I'd forgotten he mentions not doing much since Jamaica- I remember particularly enjoying that phrase 'discourtesy visit' 😁
Maybe this visit to America will be part of the new book.
thats such a unique yet completely vague phrase, it could mean anything as long as it was an adventure in the States. It would be a mighty slick way of tying Colonel Sun more tightly into continuity if Horowitz's new book at least partially took place in the States and somehow involved "discourtesy", a pretty simple requirement which could allow almost anything Horowitz could imagine.
That's an interesting idea, @caractacus potts. It reminds me of those authors who wrote up the cases that Conan Doyle had Sherlock Holmes mention in passing but that he never had Dr Watson write up in full. In the same way there are a good few references to other missions Bond was sent on that also aren't written up fully by Fleming. Those missions could make an interesting creative springboard for Horowitz or another Bond continuation author in the future.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I was rather hoping for literary Bond to return to the present day, but this is the next best thing. Horowitz has proven that he’s better at Fleming pastiche than everyone else who has tried it, likely due in part to having some actual Fleming material to build around for both of his novels.
I also think it makes sense to do this one at the end of Fleming’s books. it gives Horowitz a nice trio of beginning-middle-end. That said, Faulks and Boyd both struggled with their “late career” characterizations of Bond. I felt both versions were lazy and overtly judgmental. I don’t see Horowitz going this route, but time will tell.
@Miles Messervy agreed on that point about Faulks and Boyd, although they failed for different reasons. The only one who offered any success following on from Fleming was Markham / Amis. I am very luke-warm on Horowitz, who like all recent Bond authors has struggled to separate the literary dynamic from the cinematic one. I believe its almost an impossible job now. One of the reasons I like Deaver's reboot was because it enabled him to be more modern, up-to-date, more cinematic, without disturbing Bond's background as tough, military intelligence agent.
Christopher Wood did the perfect pastiche of Flemings style, while telling the least FlemingLike of stories!
personally I think Charlie Higson wrote the best books of all recent continuation novels, better than Horowitz's, but he wasn't really trying to capture Fleming's style.
Comments
Here is the page listing the book from Indigo, Canada's biggest bookstore monopoly, even in Toronto there aren't really any independent competitors left.
Not available til November 6, 2018.
I believe that's the same date for the States (somebody gave the same date upthread, I'm sure).
Given this, either wait until after November to compare sales, or just compare against UK sales for previous books.
The numbers I posted ARE comparing UK sales for previous books. To be clear and specific, they are comparing the hardcover sales of the various releases, during their first 4 weeks of release, in the UK and Ireland, as reported by Nielsen BookScan UK.
I will be buying Forever and a Day when it finally shows up in Canadian bookstores (to be precise, it is on my Christmas wish list) … but Canadian editions of Trigger Mortis did not have the Fleming bonus content and I expect this new one will not either.
...just as this does too:
There's a inscription inside the case somewhere, lol
My brief take; loved the ending chapters, particularly the dark humor and the cool ruthlessness of the characters. Bond's one-liners actually reminded me of Daniel Craig's, so I don't know if that's good or bad, lol. Overall, liked this book more than Trigger Mortis, which I really liked, though for me it all boils down to how I enjoy a journey on which a book will take me.
I thought the very same thing, and as soon as I had finished reading Forever and a Day I jumped straight into re-reading Casino Royale, looking for some hint that Bond was sceptical about trusting Leiter. I thought maybe that there was something in CR that Horowitz had picked up on, but didn't find any such thing.
M: "Jealous husbands, outraged chefs, humiliated tailors . . . the list is endless."
The one thing I would say is that a lot more people by books on Kindles, iPads and various other devices nowadays conpared to a few years ago. I haven’t bought a newly releases physical book in years. I bought FAAD on iBooks.
Twitter: @mybudgetbond1
Thank you! The centerpiece items are the Morland cigarettes (not real) with box, produced by AJB member SFPROPS. The other items, the large black metal cigarette case and the Ronson lighter came from eBay.
I'm not sure Fleming would've approved, though. He was one of those Brits who as a real Americanophile (like my father!). The Americans were always good guys
Fleming's original synopsis for the teevee episode, which Horowitz expanded for chapter 7 Russian Roulette?
I believe that Waterstones edition is the only edition that has the Fleming bonus content, definitely not any edition that has ever shown up in bookstores round here
I enjoyed it. The opening kills didn't quite work for me because I recalled the way they were depicted in John Pearson's fine 'bio' of Bond from the 1960s, which covered his early life, the conceit being that as a journalist he stumbled upon a scoop that Fleming actually based his books on a real person. Now of course as that book went on the premise became less plausible but the early stuff had a raw, authentic feel to it, understated too, and these continuation novels never quite match that.
Moneypenny features and it doesn't quite work, she was never in the Fleming books as much as the films and it seems an unnecessary concession, the idea she'd flirt with Bond straight from the off.
Otherwise I'd suggest that while I very much enjoyed the novel and devoured it in a few days... something nagged. The main thing is that in this book, what Bond gets up to isn't actually terribly exotic. I mean, most of us very well might have done it. It would have been a big treat in dour 1950s Britain but Horrovitz doesn't really cover that much here. A nice French baguette with cheese and red wine... driving in an open top car around the South of France. It's not that amazing. Why, Bond has sex in this and I'd wager even some of us have done that once at least...
Even the sex is a bit pedestrian. It's not the sex of Tatiana Romanova in FRWL appearing in his room with a choker... I mean, that's very risqué in a way even now, but there's nothing saucy or kinky in the continuation novels, probably because you have the Fleming estate breathing down the author's neck. I do think that Bond authors should be in their 40s like Fleming was, any older and it gets a bit Dad dancing... I'm not sure older authors can do the sex scenes, they're probably thinking of their daughters being taken advantage of or something, it's a different perspective.
Most of the modern plots are a bit busy, a bit try hard. You can see why, and they do give value for money, but you don't get the sense that the lingering feel of depression hangs over our hero the way it did in the Fleming novels. The plot has to drive it, but that leads to an odd loss of authenticity and that wonderful observation and description takes a back seat.
I do recall this book being very sunny, quite bleached out almost so reading it gave me a headache. Couldn't remember the title at all, so I thought it was called Carte Blanche and renamed Forever And A Day for the American market.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Hello,
Do you know where I might be able to get hold of a copy of the David Rintoul audiobooks?
Thanks.
Looks like we might be getting an announcement tomorrow morning...
https://twitter.com/TheIanFleming/status/1397933196407418892?s=20
Let me guess- Amazon has bought IFP as well?
😂😂😂 😳
Here it is, coming May 2022 and set towards the end of Fleming's Bond's run after TMWTGG:
Horowitz said: "I am very excited to have started my third Bond novel with the continuing support of the Ian Fleming estate. Forever and a Day looked at Bond’s first assignment. Trigger Mortis was mid-career. The new book begins with the death of Scaramanga and Bond’s return from Jamaica to confront an old enemy."
This is excellent news. I've enjoyed Horowitz's first two Bond novels and I admire his work in general, including his TV writing so I am delighted that he gets another crack at Bond. If the new novel turns out to be a good one, then this trilogy of his could turn out to be the strongest run of three novels in the continuation series.
They didn't mention any old Fleming material being used for this one, so I wonder if it will be a 100% Horowitz original this time?
I'd prefer Fleming material being used, but am looking forward to more Horowitz Bond either way.
"An old enemy", eh? Hmmm....
Which old enemies survived? I'd have to have another skim of Fleming to see. Could include henchmen and other subsidiary villains I suppose. Or a character from the first two Horowitz novels.
I'd rather see the new adventure retconned into Fleming's timeline, setting it after the events of ...Golden Gun seems too simple. The continuity geekery was my favourite aspect of his first two.
In Colonel Sun, Amis mentioned two Unseen Missions in the year since ...Golden Gun, though I think only what Fleming wrote is canonical in the Horowitz-verse
"What have I done this year? One trip to the States, on what turns out to be a sort of discourtesy visit, and then that miserable flop out East back in June.'
Bond had been sent to Hong Kong to supervise the conveying to the Red mainland of a certain Chinese and a number of unusual stores. The man had gone missing about the time of Bond's arrival and had been found two days later in an alley off the waterfront with his head almost severed from his body. After another three days, memorable chiefly for a violent and prolonged typhoon, the plan had been cancelled and Bond recalled.
I’d love for Brosnan to read it. Imagine this, he’s reading the book and he is doing it like he did the Goldeneye watch along, ‘Oh I hope this is working because I don’t want to have to do this again’ type of thing. :)
"Keeping British end up, sir." - RM "This never happened to the other fellow." - JL "I must be dreaming." SC
Oh that's a good point, I'd forgotten he mentions not doing much since Jamaica- I remember particularly enjoying that phrase 'discourtesy visit' 😁
Maybe this visit to America will be part of the new book.
In terms of old enemies, of course it could be a previously unseen one, but I was trying to think who survived too. Irma Bunt is only believed to have died I think, and Rosa Klebb's death is just reported in the next book- I guess she could be brought back potentially.
Bunt was the first name that came to mind, but since she's already been used by other continuation authors I'd hope she's less likely.
another possibility: Fleming gave a few specific character names when hinting at Unseen Missions. for example in Thunderball, Bond reminisces
"...he reflected that the ''bad fall'' had probably been when he had had to jump from the Arlberg Express after Heinkel and his friends had caught up with him around the time of the Hungarian uprising in 1956."
so Heinkel is a genuine Fleming villain we never actually saw in Fleming. Bringing Heinkel back would be an excuse for a new adventure and a "previously unseen" flashback to the middle of Fleming's timeline.
Though Pearson already told us a version of that story in the Bond Biography, just as he revealed Irma Bunt had survived.
emtiem said:
Oh that's a good point, I'd forgotten he mentions not doing much since Jamaica- I remember particularly enjoying that phrase 'discourtesy visit' 😁
Maybe this visit to America will be part of the new book.
thats such a unique yet completely vague phrase, it could mean anything as long as it was an adventure in the States. It would be a mighty slick way of tying Colonel Sun more tightly into continuity if Horowitz's new book at least partially took place in the States and somehow involved "discourtesy", a pretty simple requirement which could allow almost anything Horowitz could imagine.
Lovely idea 👍️
That's an interesting idea, @caractacus potts. It reminds me of those authors who wrote up the cases that Conan Doyle had Sherlock Holmes mention in passing but that he never had Dr Watson write up in full. In the same way there are a good few references to other missions Bond was sent on that also aren't written up fully by Fleming. Those missions could make an interesting creative springboard for Horowitz or another Bond continuation author in the future.
I was rather hoping for literary Bond to return to the present day, but this is the next best thing. Horowitz has proven that he’s better at Fleming pastiche than everyone else who has tried it, likely due in part to having some actual Fleming material to build around for both of his novels.
I also think it makes sense to do this one at the end of Fleming’s books. it gives Horowitz a nice trio of beginning-middle-end. That said, Faulks and Boyd both struggled with their “late career” characterizations of Bond. I felt both versions were lazy and overtly judgmental. I don’t see Horowitz going this route, but time will tell.
@Miles Messervy agreed on that point about Faulks and Boyd, although they failed for different reasons. The only one who offered any success following on from Fleming was Markham / Amis. I am very luke-warm on Horowitz, who like all recent Bond authors has struggled to separate the literary dynamic from the cinematic one. I believe its almost an impossible job now. One of the reasons I like Deaver's reboot was because it enabled him to be more modern, up-to-date, more cinematic, without disturbing Bond's background as tough, military intelligence agent.
Christopher Wood did the perfect pastiche of Flemings style, while telling the least FlemingLike of stories!
personally I think Charlie Higson wrote the best books of all recent continuation novels, better than Horowitz's, but he wasn't really trying to capture Fleming's style.
He wasn't trying to get his prose style but I thought he captured Fleming's sense of the twisted and macabre the best, yes indeed.