Mister Goldfinger, not Herr Goldfinger?

Napoleon Plural

This is something that's only just occurred to me.

Auric Goldfinger is meant to be German, right? He's played by a German, though his voice is (excellently) dubbed by Michael Collins. Are Germans called 'Mr'? It's not their title, is it?

In the film they get away with it, because Connery's delivery makes it sound like he's being slightly facetious.

Hugo Drax has a French accent, though he was meant to be German in the Fleming novel. But he is 'Mr Drax' according to most in the film. Is he ever referred to as Monsieur Drax?

Dr No doesn't matter, with a title.

Is this done to make the whole thing appear less xenophobic? Allies get the Monsieur treatment don't they, I am thinking of Monsieur Aubergine in AVTAK.

Thunderpussy

I think Goldfinger was Lithuanian or Latvian? In the novel, although became British, so Mr would
have been correct, I guess ?
Didn't Drax in the novel adopt a history of being a Liverpool dock worker, before being injured
In the war ? So could do a good British accent as he needed to for his war work. I always thought
In the film he was meant to be an American ? So no knighthood.

Chriscoop

In miami, Felix describes him as British.
"auric goldfinger, sounds like a French nail varnish"
"he's British, though he doesn't sound like it"
Obviously I'm aware he is not British but maybe he's referred to as Mr to flatter him.

Silhouette Man

Thunderpussy wrote:

I think Goldfinger was Lithuanian or Latvian? In the novel, although became British, so Mr would
have been correct, I guess ?
Didn't Drax in the novel adopt a history of being a Liverpool dock worker, before being injured
In the war ? So could do a good British accent as he needed to for his war work. I always thought
In the film he was meant to be an American ? So no knighthood.

Though he tried to bring the Eiffel Tower from Paris, France and his chateau is built in the French style of architecture. [Obviously, this is because it was filmed in France and not California!] I think he's meant to be French or French-American in the MR film. In the accompanying novelisation, Christopher Wood has Bond debating what side he was on in the war and has him thinking it may have been the German side given his hatred of the Russians. In the MR source novel Drax was a German Nazi impersonating a Liverpudlian war veteran. It's a muddled identity in the film version though to be fair.

Ornithologist

Thunderpussy wrote:

I think Goldfinger was Lithuanian or Latvian? In the novel, although became British, so Mr would
have been correct, I guess ?

You are correct, in the novel he was born in Riga (Latvia) in 1917, but Bond speculates early on that he might be a "Balt", which would include Estonia and Lithuania as well. Based on his name though, I wonder if he was intended to have been ethnic German in spite of being from Riga. I believe there must have been a German-speaking minority there since the whole region was controlled by the Teutonic Order for a very long time.

Movie-Goldfinger certainly is believed by the majority of my countrymen to have been German, because Gert Fröbe dubbed himself with his very iconic Saxon accent.

In the original English though, I think it makes sense for Bond to call him Mr.

Barbel

I don't think too much should be placed on the nationality of the actor playing the part. Blofeld has been played by several different nationalities, for example, as has Bond himself. It was good casting to have Frobe (sorry, no umlauts on my keyboard) as Goldfinger, just as it was good casting to have Lotte Lenya as Rosa Klebb in the previous film- and nobody thinks Klebb is supposed to be German.

Goldfinger is a naturalised Brit in the novel, and by implication (Leiter's line, quoted above) in the film too so "Mr" is appropriate. Besides, if he was using "Herr" then the lyrics in the title song wouldn't scan!

Matt S

Ornithologist wrote:

Movie-Goldfinger certainly is believed by the majority of my countrymen to have been German, because Gert Fröbe dubbed himself with his very iconic Saxon accent.

The voice is actually English actor Michael Collins doing a German accent.

Barbel

Yes, but Ornithologist is referring to the German dub.

Ornithologist

Barbel wrote:

Yes, but Ornithologist is referring to the German dub.

Correct. But it is a confusing case altogether

Barbel

Slightly off-topic, but Curt Jurgens also did his own dub for "Der Spion, der mich liebte".

Ornithologist

You could add Klaus Maria Brandauer and Christoph Waltz to that list, but yes, it's off-topic.

Thunderpussy

Still Interesting, in my collection I have several cinema brochures on various Bond films,
All in German so I just look at the pictures.

Barbel

Thunderpussy wrote:

Still Interesting, in my collection I have several cinema brochures on various Bond films,
All in German so I just look at the pictures.

They'll bild up nicely. ;%

Thunderpussy

)
I do have some other German magazines, ...... But their about a different subject.

Barbel

I could make a joke about sausages, but that would be wurst.

Thunderpussy

) Out of interest do you ever try this banter on stage ?

Barbel

Ornithologist wrote:

You could add Klaus Maria Brandauer and Christoph Waltz to that list, but yes, it's off-topic.

Ahem, back on-topic (well, sort of). I haven't seen SPECTRE in Deutsch yet, so didn't know that Waltz did his own dub though of course it makes sense. My wife is German, and I'm not bad at the language (though Higgins has great fun with my attempts), and have often enjoyed the Bond films while there.

Barbel

And no TP, I just sing and play bass- which is just as well, I'd never make a living as a comedian!

Napoleon Plural

They call him Mr Stromberg in the film though, don't they?

Thing is, start calling her Mrs Klebb and she just doesn't sound menacing! In fact, if Bond were to start doing such a thing, he would come across as sexist. Then again, you have Fraulein Bunt, that is a definite example of using the foreign title.

At the risk of sounding a bit retro/xenophobic, a sexy German femme fetale would be an interesting match for Bond. On the same theme, Fleming really didn't care for the Germans after the war, and to date the cinematic Bond has never had a German ally, I believe.

Silhouette Man

Well it would be Colonel Rosa Klebb of course and not 'Mrs Klebb'.

I think that she is Fraulein Irma Bunt in the original OHMSS source novel too.

Ornithologist

Napoleon Plural wrote:

At the risk of sounding a bit retro/xenophobic, a sexy German femme fetale would be an interesting match for Bond. On the same theme, Fleming really didn't care for the Germans after the war, and to date the cinematic Bond has never had a German ally, I believe.

Octopussy would've been the perfect chance, with TND a close second. I don't think we'll see Bond return to Germany any time soon. But I'll keep hoping.

Napoleon Plural

Hang on, wasn't Karin Dor German? Of course, he wouldn't have to go to Germany to meet such a character.

Colonel Klebb, of course. I feel suddenly upbraided.

"You forget to whom you are speaking!" [Crash of whip.]

Ornithologist

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Hang on, wasn't Karin Dor German? Of course, he wouldn't have to go to Germany to meet such a character.

Indeed but Helga Brandt falls more into the henchwomen category.

Silhouette Man

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Hang on, wasn't Karin Dor German? Of course, he wouldn't have to go to Germany to meet such a character.

Colonel Klebb, of course. I feel suddenly upbraided.

"You forget to whom you are speaking!" [Crash of whip.]

Not to worry, Nap,. We all make mistakes. -{