I watched it again last night and can say I enjoyed it just as much as the first time, which is to say, better than Skyfall and Quantum of Solace but less than Casino Royale. It holds up well as a genuine Bond film, which also proves that Craig has the presence to carry an even better entry in this regard should they ever figure out how to make one.
The biggest weakness remains -- an underwhelming third act that begins once they're at the lair, which itself underwhelms. Mendes as a director likes to do that. He somehow thinks smaller when the film should be bigger make it more intimate without properly contextualizing why that doesn't work in a Bond film. What's interesting is how what so many critics think are weaknesses here were praised in Skyfall, which also has an underwhelming climax. But Spectre doesn't suffer from the derivative nature of Skyfall (The Dark Knight meets Straw Dogs) nor its narrative illogic.
Where Spectre suffers is in the reluctance to fully commit to being a big budget Bond entry. What's remarkable is that it cost twice as much as Casino Royale but often looks and feels even smaller than that film. This is entirely on Mendes, as his films are trademarked with exactly this approach.
Skyfall, for all the praised character development, could easily have been a generic action film -- wounded warrior faces his tortured past to right a current wrong. Spectre, on the other hand, traffics more in what the Bond films were known for -- facing a current enemy with grand schemes that could destroy the world. The attempt to shoehorn the brother element into the story was a gigantic and unfortunately misstep, too, and completely unnecessary for the plot, but it only seems clumsier here than the whole Bond-Silva brothers with M the mother in Skyfall because Spectre does not fog things with sentimentality.
Spectre remains the superior effort to me over Skyfall and Quantum of Solace, though it still falls short of Casino Royale. Rather than insert trivia about the characters, the stories needs to be better constructed to show rather than tell. Otherwise, they need to step up the scale of the films. Spectre may have spent a ridiculous among of money in production, but it didn't show up as much on the screen. That's its biggest failing. All in or don't play. And Spectre held back too much on what to show.
This also might be a controversial opinion but I also enjoyed Spectre more than Quantum Of Solace and Skyfall. I am at a very big line of tugger war when deciding if Casino was better, or this film. I love them both because they're full of action and we see Bond in his best scenes. QOS was just an all round bad Bond movie, and SF, while it is great has a lot of plotholes that don't make sense and the first half is very slow for me - up until we meet Silva. From there on it's excellence, but overall I think I enjoyed SP most in the Craig era - next to CR.
SPECTRE would have benefited from a Joss Whedon touch. Having recently seen Justice League, and realizing how bloated it would have been without some fat-trimming and some human moments added, I have to say I see many similarities here. As much as I love SPECTRE (and I really do), some severe hacking would have made for a better & more intense experience.
Just saw it yesterday , I liked it....but the generic scores needs to go , even Conti is better than this , at least he tried to add some atmosphere to his music , dated or not.
Oh, and get back the hand painted movie posters , don't be cheap.
I thought we would see more of Rome , come to think of it some kung fu films did better with the Roman locations (example Way of Dragon , Kidnap in Rome , Godfather Squad , Ninja strikes back etc)
I talked to guy at a sci-fi convention (who played a MI6 administrator in Skyfall, a First Order stormtrooper on TFA and a London Met policeman in SPECTRE) and he said that behind the scenes SPECTRE suffered from severe budget cuts midway through production. So that explains the choppy and listless tone of this film in parts, even if the parts with enough money behind it (the Mexico City opening and train leading to the SPECTRE complex in Morocco, even the Swiss segment) were fantastic (but then it was running out of steam at C's headquarters in London).
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
Interesting that an extra is so involved in the
Budget decisions on so many big movies
I've a mate who works as an extra "GOT" for
Example and honestly he knows F@ck all about
The budget of the series. )
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Could SPECTRE have been better? Certainly, and I could have made it so with one final re-wright.
Do I dislike it because of that? Nah, what they did get right was oh so right. I actually do love it from beginning to end.
Could SPECTRE have been better? Certainly, and I could have made it so with one final re-wright.
Do I dislike it because of that? Nah, what they did get right was oh so right. I actually do love it from beginning to end.
I loved this movie when it was first released and even called it the best Daniel Craig bond movie. Now, four years later I definitely do not hold the same opinion. It just seems to get worse on every rewatch, where I point out more and more flaws than ever before.
My issues:
* Poor Bond girl
* The entire love plot between them just seems to go nowhere and they have no chemistry
* The entire character of C (I hated him the first time I saw SP)
* Its just all action but very little plot in a film that feels flat and depressing
* It should have been split into two parts with the route they went
* No real climax
* The train fight - I didn’t actually like it that much. It feels poorly made
* Bond having hardly any gadgets in that Aston Martin
* Hinx - no character development or interacting on screen with a Blofeld and did he die or not?
It’s not a bad movie, but it feels like so much was crammed in.
I loved this movie when it was first released and even called it the best Daniel Craig bond movie. Now, four years later I definitely do not hold the same opinion. It just seems to get worse on every rewatch, where I point out more and more flaws than ever before.
My issues:
* Poor Bond girl
* The entire love plot between them just seems to go nowhere and they have no chemistry
* The entire character of C (I hated him the first time I saw SP)
* Its just all action but very little plot in a film that feels flat and depressing
* It should have been split into two parts with the route they went
* No real climax
* The train fight - I didn’t actually like it that much. It feels poorly made
* Bond having hardly any gadgets in that Aston Martin
* Hinx - no character development or interacting on screen with a Blofeld and did he die or not?
It’s not a bad movie, but it feels like so much was crammed in.
I am mostly agree with your opinion ...
But the first time I saw Spectre, I was so disapointed ... 8-)
Now I get used to it ... -{
I feel like Spectre is almost a litmus test for what individuals want from a Bond movie. If you want a series of recycled allusions to earlier Bond movies, particularly the less realistic latter ones of the Moore era, then I’d say you probably enjoyed the film very much. Personally, I find it to be a monumental wasted opportunity. We get the Day of the Dead sequence, which is Mendes version of the of working in some of the voodoo-esque imagery from LALD (he is on record as being a big fan of that film), Hinx is just a modernized Jaws, the most benign car chase in Bond history (they’re literally side by side in their cars looking at each other and not doing anything), we get the FRWL train fight, and last but not least Blofeld for the sake of Blofeld. It’s just so obvious that Mendes was throwing the Bond kitchen sink into this film, plot be damned. I could almost chalk all of that up to creative license and a filmmaker wanting to make something more lighthearted if not for the egregious decision to retcon the previous three films into a ludicrous it’s-all-connected mishmash. It’s totally disrespectful to the artistic visions of Campbell and Forster, but beyond that it’s just plain lazy storytelling. Skyfall, IMHO, worked because the dip into Bond’s background felt like an interesting one-off exploration. But Spectre, again IMHO, is definitely a case of going to the well too many times. It felt so forced that it sucked all of the enjoyment out the film for me. I would’ve given anything for a straightforward Bond-on-a-case film in the vein of Goldfinger. All that being said, I remain optimistic for what I’ve seen from NTTD. The fact that Cary Fukunaga is a younger (and immensely talented) filmmaker without the generational baggage of having to serve some arbitrary notion that Bond should be ‘fun’ just because that’s what we remember from growing up gives me hope.
When the official reveal of the films title SPECTRE was made i was already peeing my pants with excitement, my imagination was running wild with ideas about where the film could potentially go and when it was revealed that Christoph waltz was to play Blofeld my anticipation was off the scale. The reality was (IMO) a mediocre film with very few memorable moments and i include in that analysis the opening sequence, the train fight and the car chase which all failed to deliver, Bonds helicopter antics were much more exciting in the FYEO opening sequence and why load the DB10 with gadgets and not use them? Obvious comparisons can be drawn between the train scrap (meh) and the one with Red grant in FRWL (wow). I just feel that with so much competition in the action film genre that Bond should be delivering on EVERY level EVERY time and i will try not to pee my pants as we approach the release of NTTD.
Oh yeah, the thread title is Spectre-one year later, i know we're a little further on than that but for me it makes my teeth itch more with every viewing X-(
ive smelt that aftershave before and both times ive smelt a rat
I watched SPECTRE again last night. Five years later, and in the context of Craig coming back to do NTTD, its fairly clear in retrospect that SPECTRE was indeed intended to be Craig's last film. A generally spent, visibly older 007 gets closure regarding Blofeld, before turning his back on the spy game "Out of bullets..." and driving off into the sunset with Madeleine. With the definite sense of finality which SPECTRE brings, it'll be interesting to see what sort of ending NTTD decides to give Craig's Bond instead...
Spectre is not a bad movie ...
Ok ... The first time I saw it in theatre, I was way beyond disappointed 8-) ...
But after 2 or 3 rewatch on BR, I saw differents elements I liked a lot ...
Some details after Skyfall I didn't noticed before.
So, It is not my favorite Bond or Craig movie as James Bond, But it is fair ...
I second the opinion it was intented to be the last Bond movie for D.C. ...
Let's see what NTTD has to show now. -{
Do you ever find that the initial opinion you have of a film changes considerably as you reconsider it idly over the following days? Sometimes it gets better and sometimes worse. There is a lot about SPECTRE that I liked, but as time moves on there's more about it that bothers me and my general opinion has definitely dipped since my first viewing. It was definitely way too long. It should have been so much tighter. I didn't particularly like Madelaine Swan the first time, and I really dislike the character even more now (which is the main reason I'm not overly excited by NTTD). I like Lea Seydoux a lot, but I find the character very weak. The good bits are very good, but it gets dragged down by the overall length.
"I didn't particularly like Madelaine Swan the first time, and I really dislike the character even more now (which is the main reason I'm not overly excited by NTTD). I like Lea Seydoux a lot, but I find the character very weak."
I find the concept of Madeleine, the only person who can understand Bond because she's an assassin's daughter, intriguing, but its not particularly well executed. I hope the dynamic between Bond and Swann improves in NTTD.
Something I appreciated was the flashes of increased overt humour throughout the film, like Bond telling the henchman in the clinic to "Stay!" and Bond being served the enzyme drink. Its witty without descending into outright self-parody, as some of the knowing silliness in the Roger Moore films tends to do.
Spectre does indeed have its issues, with my main ones being Swan, the character C who was just unlikable, Blofeld not being in the film enough and the climax and how he just gets caught. Overall though it was an entertaining two hours and although I might get hate, I liked it over Skyfall. I am just not a big fan of Skyfall, like how the villain is just thrown in and introduced randomly, the boring training sequences, the China part being pointless and dull and even the final act dragging. I have actually wondered if Skyfall is my least favourite Craig film, or Quantum Of Solace. I need to see them again.
I do know one thing, and that is Casino Royale is Craig’s best film by far.
Comments
This also might be a controversial opinion but I also enjoyed Spectre more than Quantum Of Solace and Skyfall. I am at a very big line of tugger war when deciding if Casino was better, or this film. I love them both because they're full of action and we see Bond in his best scenes. QOS was just an all round bad Bond movie, and SF, while it is great has a lot of plotholes that don't make sense and the first half is very slow for me - up until we meet Silva. From there on it's excellence, but overall I think I enjoyed SP most in the Craig era - next to CR.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Oh, and get back the hand painted movie posters , don't be cheap.
I thought we would see more of Rome , come to think of it some kung fu films did better with the Roman locations (example Way of Dragon , Kidnap in Rome , Godfather Squad , Ninja strikes back etc)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Budget decisions on so many big movies
I've a mate who works as an extra "GOT" for
Example and honestly he knows F@ck all about
The budget of the series.
{[]
My issues:
* Poor Bond girl
* The entire love plot between them just seems to go nowhere and they have no chemistry
* The entire character of C (I hated him the first time I saw SP)
* Its just all action but very little plot in a film that feels flat and depressing
* It should have been split into two parts with the route they went
* No real climax
* The train fight - I didn’t actually like it that much. It feels poorly made
* Bond having hardly any gadgets in that Aston Martin
* Hinx - no character development or interacting on screen with a Blofeld and did he die or not?
It’s not a bad movie, but it feels like so much was crammed in.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
I am mostly agree with your opinion ...
But the first time I saw Spectre, I was so disapointed ... 8-)
Now I get used to it ... -{
Oh yeah, the thread title is Spectre-one year later, i know we're a little further on than that but for me it makes my teeth itch more with every viewing X-(
"The spectre of defeat..."
I still don't like it. EON spent 4 years to produce this dull, plodding, nonsensical waste of over two hours?
Ok ... The first time I saw it in theatre, I was way beyond disappointed 8-) ...
But after 2 or 3 rewatch on BR, I saw differents elements I liked a lot ...
Some details after Skyfall I didn't noticed before.
So, It is not my favorite Bond or Craig movie as James Bond, But it is fair ...
I second the opinion it was intented to be the last Bond movie for D.C. ...
Let's see what NTTD has to show now. -{
I find the concept of Madeleine, the only person who can understand Bond because she's an assassin's daughter, intriguing, but its not particularly well executed. I hope the dynamic between Bond and Swann improves in NTTD.
Something I appreciated was the flashes of increased overt humour throughout the film, like Bond telling the henchman in the clinic to "Stay!" and Bond being served the enzyme drink. Its witty without descending into outright self-parody, as some of the knowing silliness in the Roger Moore films tends to do.
"The spectre of defeat..."
I do know one thing, and that is Casino Royale is Craig’s best film by far.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan