Neo-Nazis/Neo-Fascists in Fiction?

Silhouette Man

So as an offshoot of my thread about John Gardner's Icebreaker (and SeaFire too) I thought it would be an idea to start a thread on Neo-Nazis in fiction more generally. This can be in novels, films, TV, comic strips, computer games etc.

Obviously there is the connected notion of the Fourth Reich which Neo-Nazis wish to bring about in the newly reunified Germany. THere are also Neo-Nazis and Neo-Fascists in many other countries as well as just Germany we have to remember.
So what are some of the most memorable fictional depictions of Neo-Nazis?

What inspired villains such as John Gardner's creations Count Konrad von Gloda in Icebreaker (1983) and Sir Max Tarn in SeaFire (1994)?

Are Neo-Nazis and the Fourth Reich plot/attacks on Communists and Jews played out in fiction nowadays or does the concept still have potential in the 21st Century?

Your thoughts please.

Barbel

Adam Hall's "The Berlin Memorandum" (filmed as "The Quiller Memorandum") centres on exactly that theme.
Donald Hamilton's Matt Helm met a few neo-Nazis, too, IIRC in "The Ambushers" and "The Shadowers".
Tom Clancy's "The Sum Of All Fears" has neo-Nazis as the villains in the film version, though not the book.
Again, IIRC (have to read it again), Len Deighton's "Horse Under Water" has his unnamed agent (usually referred to as Harry Palmer) dealing with neo-Nazis in Portugal.

Silhouette Man

Thank you that list, Barbel. Some ones I'd forgotten about in there. Much appreciated!

Higgins

Sorry, but I don't like this thread at all.

Neo-Nazis - fictional or real should not be discussed - particularly not with the question "What are your favourite Neo Nazis".

Additionally, and again - unfortunately Neo Nazis are not limited to Germany - there are a lot of them all over Europe, the USA and many countries of the former Soviet Block.

Barbel

You're absolutely correct, Higgins, in that they're not limited to Germany.
We're talking about fictional portrayals here, and not real people, and it's a valid subject for discussion.

Thunderpussy

Nazi's are simply terrific shorthand for evil. I love "The Rocketeer" with everyone's favourite Bond
The great Timothy Dalton -{ his portrayal of the fascist actor is fantastic. So anything with neo - nazis
I always find fun. From tv shows like the new avengers to movies. ....... obviously I have no love or respect
for any real Nazis but they are terrific villains for books and movies.

Silhouette Man

Higgins wrote:

Sorry, but I don't like this thread at all.

Neo-Nazis - fictional or real should not be discussed - particularly not with the question "What are your favourite Neo Nazis".

Additionally, and again - unfortunately Neo Nazis are not limited to Germany - there are a lot of them all over Europe, the USA and many countries of the former Soviet Block.

OK, I've tidied the OP up a bit to make it better worded.

I'm very sorry if I offended you but that was not my intention with this thread. I know as a German national the horrors of the Nazi past is always with you and I would never seek to trivilalise that with this thread. The fact is that Germany has moved on and vowed never to again embrace fascism. It is now a fully democratic and free country and the current generations are in no way responsible for what happened in the past. It is the biggest economy of Europe and that is not set to change. And you are absolutely right that many other countries have Neo-Nazis and Neo-Fascists (including my own I freely admit) and in fact I would prefer to see Hungarian Neo-Arrow Cross men in fiction as Neo-Nazis and the Fourth Reich have become a bit overdone in fiction and writers need to move on.

This thread does have a relevancy to James Bond - we have ex-Nazis and Neo-Nazis in Ian Fleming's Moonraker and John Gardner's Icebreaker and SeaFire after all and I would say it is OK to discuss this on such a forum as AJB.

If there is anything more I can do to amend the thread please do let me know, Higgins. -{

Higgins

Thanks for making this clear.

A lot from what you are saying above is true, maybe I am over-sensitive but the sheer mentioning of the word "Nazi" makes me cringe.

I'll further ignore this thread - thanks for offering your help, Brian.

Silhouette Man

Higgins wrote:

Thanks for making this clear.

A lot from what you are saying above is true, maybe I am over-sensitive but the sheer mentioning of the word "Nazi" makes me cringe.

I'll further ignore this thread - thanks for offering your help, Brian.

No, I don't actually think you are over-sensitive at all. You are German, so you feel it when Nazis are mentioned but you should know that no one blames you or those alive today for anything that happened then. Indeed, how could anyone in their right mind do so? It would be like blaming me for the evils of British imperialism or even IRA or Loyalist terrorism just because I live in Northern Ireland!

There really is nothing to be ashamed of as none of us can do anything about the pasts of our respective countries, be they good, bad or indifferent.

Number24

After the war Germany the reactions and educations to nazism was severe. This happened to a much lesser degree in Japan. Japanese schoolbooks about WWII are shocking, the country is essentialy presented as a victim and not an agressor.
Last I heard a girlband used SS uniforms as stage outfits!

Chriscoop

Higgins wrote:

Thanks for making this clear.

A lot from what you are saying above is true, maybe I am over-sensitive but the sheer mentioning of the word "Nazi" makes me cringe.

I'll further ignore this thread - thanks for offering your help, Brian.

It's understandable Higgins, but I'd like to think we are educated enough to know that the Nazis were a political movement first becoming a dictatorship and many Germans also suffered at their hands. Personally I don't think any German person should feel negatively unless of course they support Nazi idealism, there are many more in different countries who do and that kind of mentality in a modern enlightened world have no place along with ku klux klan etc......

Matt S

Silhouette Man wrote:

Higgins wrote:

Thanks for making this clear.

A lot from what you are saying above is true, maybe I am over-sensitive but the sheer mentioning of the word "Nazi" makes me cringe.

I'll further ignore this thread - thanks for offering your help, Brian.

No, I don't actually think you are over-sensitive at all. You are German, so you feel it when Nazis are mentioned but you should know that no one blames you or those alive today for anything that happened then. Indeed, how could anyone in their right mind do so? It would be like blaming me for the evils of British imperialism or even IRA or Loyalist terrorism just because I live in Northern Ireland!

There really is nothing to be ashamed of as none of us can do anything about the pasts of our respective countries, be they good, bad or indifferent.

Most people know that today's Germany isn't responsible for what happened over 70 years ago, but sadly there are still people—people who were alive during WWII and some of the next generation—who still hate or distrust Germans today because of what the Nazis did. These people have no idea about Germany in the 70 years since. My grandparents still hated all Germans for the rest of their lives. My grandfather got rid of his Cadillac after he learned it was a rebadged Opel made in Germany. I think it's stupid to hold today's German's accountable for what happened a few generations ago. Just like some Americans still hate England for our colonisation, which makes no sense at all.

Silhouette Man

I hear that the new Dynamite James Bond comic Kill Chain has neo-Nazis as the villains.

Has anyone read that one? How do they feature?

https://www.dynamite.com/htmlfiles/viewProduct.html?PRO=C72513026017802011

Number24

It's a mystery why there are so many neo nazis in Russia. According to Nazi ideology Slavs are second-rate humans - not evil like Jews, just incapable of creating something by themselves. Nazism believe Slavs should be slaves for "Aryans" or dead. I doubt Eastern European neo nazis really know the ideology they claim to follow.

Loeffelholz

My current novel (in-progress) has Nazis as villains...but it's set in 1942. Indiana Jones mined the same territory, as have many others, to one degree or another.

Outside of fiction, there is no place for such a philosophy in the modern world, IMO. But we should never pretend it never happened in real life.

Thunderpussy

They do make great villians, as they can cover so many bases. The occult, technology
and the genetics angle.

Number24

The ultimate villans are zombie nazis, as shown in the "Dead Snow"-movies
You should absolutely write about zombie nazis, Loeffelholz!

Joshua

Loeffelholz wrote:

Outside of fiction, there is no place for such a philosophy in the modern world, IMO. But we should never pretend it ever happened in real life.

In South Africa today there is the nazi political group called the awb. It has flags and other things that are very close to nazi germany. For my friend Higgins I will not put the picture of these peoples as they are dressed at most times in nazi type uniforms and it may cause him upset. But I think not to speak about such things is not correct as not speaking about nazis does not make them go away it helps them to grow. To keep the light shining on them all times is what they do not like as it does them much harm.

Thunderpussy

Mel Brooks always took the P*ss out of the Nazis, he said it was just one way
to fight their sick beliefs.

Loeffelholz

Joshua wrote:

Loeffelholz wrote:

Outside of fiction, there is no place for such a philosophy in the modern world, IMO. But we should never pretend it never happened in real life.

In South Africa today there is the nazi political group called the awb. It has flags and other things that are very close to nazi germany. For my friend Higgins I will not put the picture of these peoples as they are dressed at most times in nazi type uniforms and it may cause him upset. But I think not to speak about such things is not correct as not speaking about nazis does not make them go away it helps them to grow. To keep the light shining on them all times is what they do not like as it does them much harm.

Very true...and be assured: in my book, they get what’s coming to them

Number24

But will you incorporate my zombie nazis idea?

Loeffelholz

Number24 wrote:

But will you incorporate my zombie nazis idea?

) Not in this particular piece.

Thunderpussy

Sounds more like an idea for a feel good musical
Some song ideas, Staying Alive. ...... I've got you under my skin ......

Silhouette Man

I suppose it's all topical again with the recent events in Charlottesville.

Thunderpussy

Nazis never go away, they just hide under a rock for a few years X-(

Silhouette Man

Barbel wrote:

Adam Hall's "The Berlin Memorandum" (filmed as "The Quiller Memorandum") centres on exactly that theme.
Donald Hamilton's Matt Helm met a few neo-Nazis, too, IIRC in "The Ambushers" and "The Shadowers".
Tom Clancy's "The Sum Of All Fears" has neo-Nazis as the villains in the film version, though not the book.
Again, IIRC (have to read it again), Len Deighton's "Horse Under Water" has his unnamed agent (usually referred to as Harry Palmer) dealing with neo-Nazis in Portugal.

John Le Carré's A Small Town in Germany (1968) has neo-Nazis too.

Chriscoop

The good thing about nazis is that we can put all the intolerant, inbred numbskulls all in one neat place. Now if only they would have an international festival we could wipe them out.

Silhouette Man

Chriscoop wrote:

The good thing about nazis is that we can put all the intolerant, inbred numbskulls all in one neat place. Now if only they would have an international festival we could wipe them out.

Just like the TND PTS?

Chriscoop

Exactly SM exactly.

Thunderpussy

Sadly Gentlemen you'd be violating their human rights and could find yourselves in court

Chriscoop

Oh boohockey to that! By their very nature nazis are beyond that. Live by the sword die by the sword I say. They live and breath through intolerance so let's not tolerate them!