J. W. Pepper in The Spy Who Loved Me

IcePak

As most probably know, DAF, LALD, and TMWTGG scribe did an uncredited rewrite of The Spy Who Loved Me. Given this, what do people think about the possibility of Mankeiwicz's infamous character, J. W. Pepper, reappearing in TSWLM?

Matt S

Since you're asking this, do you like that idea? His appearance in TMWTGG was terrible enough.

GoldenEye85

Live and Let Die, too. As much as I love both movies, Pepper is by far the most annoying character in any 007 movie.

heartbroken_mr_drax

JW Pepper suits LALD because of the location and the tone of the movie. Just because he was popular he has 8-) to reappear in TMWTGG. Similar to Jaws.

If he did reappear in TSWLM, perhaps he'd suit being in Sardenga? Completely out of place?

Matt S

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

JW Pepper suits LALD because of the location and the tone of the movie. Just because he was popular he has 8-) to reappear in TMWTGG. Similar to Jaws.

If he did reappear in TSWLM, perhaps he'd suit being in Sardenga? Completely out of place?

JW Pepper indeed fits the location in LALD (though he's unrealistic, and in a positive way), but his return was absurd. A cameo might have been okay, but not integrating him into the story. I could picture him on holiday in Sardinia, but that would have been completely unnecessary, as it was in TMWTGG. Jaws coming back makes some sense. He's better than Chang.

Higgins

I could imagine him vacationing in Egypt.

I very much like the character and would have welcomed him returning in TSWLM.

On a side note, between TMWTGG and TSWLM is by far the largest change in tone from any 2 consecutive Bond movies imo.

They seem to be 2 totally different genres.

Barbel

Higgins wrote:

On a side note, between TMWTGG and TSWLM is by far the largest change in tone from any 2 consecutive Bond movies imo.

They seem to be 2 totally different genres.

I agree that it's a major shift, but surely the change in tone between DAD and CR beats that?

Mr Snow

Higgins wrote:

I could imagine him vacationing in Egypt.

I very much like the character and would have welcomed him returning in TSWLM.

On a side note, between TMWTGG and TSWLM is by far the largest change in tone from any 2 consecutive Bond movies imo.

They seem to be 2 totally different genres.

I very much hate the character; worst accomplice in a James Bond film ever in my opinion. And that lopsided jaw and the constant spitting was just annoying. What would have worked for me in LALD is if Joe Frazier had made a cameo apperance as one of Dr. Kananga's henchmen and given him one of his famous left hooks and straightened his jaw out (and shut him up). Now that I would have got a laugh out of.

TSWLM wasn't that good anyway and if you had added Pepper the film would have been even worse.

Higgins

Barbel wrote:

I agree that it's a major shift, but surely the change in tone between DAD and CR beats that?

Big shift, agreed, but not as large as the others.

IMO Bond moved from a spy to a superhero in TSWLM. It was spectacular and on a totally different level!

From DAD to CR, the quality improved on all fronts but I feel that it's the same genre. And CR basically was a step back to Fleming while TSWLM was a step forwards to Sifi.
Hope that I've made myself understandable with my limited choice of words

CoolHandBond

I liked JW. He was quite brilliant in LALD and his return in TMWTGG was a highlight of the movie. But another appearance would have been too much.

Barbel

Higgins wrote:

Barbel wrote:

I agree that it's a major shift, but surely the change in tone between DAD and CR beats that?

Big shift, agreed, but not as large as the others.

IMO Bond moved from a spy to a superhero in TSWLM. It was spectacular and on a totally different level!

From DAD to CR, the quality improved on all fronts but I feel that it's the same genre. And CR basically was a step back to Fleming while TSWLM was a step forwards to Sifi.
Hope that I've made myself understandable with my limited choice of words

I'd love to go into this more, but it's off-topic: do you think there's enough to debate to start another thread?

Higgins

As long as you don't start a thread "rank the largest shift in tone between 2 consecutive".... I'll be all for that

IcePak

Matt S wrote:

Since you're asking this, do you like that idea? His appearance in TMWTGG was terrible enough.

I wouldn't say I like him. His first appearance in TMWTGG is okay, but his second seems unnecessary. I do find him funny and often notice myself quoting his outrageous lines, especially from TMWTGG.

Do I think he should be in TSWLM? Err, no.

The Wicker Man

I actually like him in LALD. But I have quite a lot of problems with TMWTGG and he is one of them. He didn't belong in that film and he definitely doesn't belong in TSWLM.

GoldenEye85

I agree he fits in Live and Let Die, but that doesn't make him less annoying. I already have a less than ideal place in my heart for The Spy Who Loved Me, so if he appeared for a third straight film then that would make me rank it even lower than I already do.

Broccoli

MilleniumForce

Pepper in TMWTGG is completely pointless. His role in TMWTGG - turning up where Bond was - probably would have been repeated for the next few movies, but in a way this role was taken by Man with bottle.

Matt S

MilleniumForce wrote:

Pepper in TMWTGG is completely pointless. His role in TMWTGG - turning up where Bond was - probably would have been repeated for the next few movies, but in a way this role was taken by Man with bottle.

Man with bottle/glass (Victor Tourjansky) is more along the lines of John Glen's pigeons.

welshguy34

No. I did not mind Pepper in LALD, but he was annoying in TMWTGG. The Spy Who Loved Me is Rogers best Bond film and is fine as it is.

Grindelwald

Fans wrote and wanted Kiel back for MR....I've never read that they requested Pepper back though , myth ?

Chriscoop

Pepper adds nothing to tmwtgg, the car chase would lose nothing without him. He fitted into lald well but IMHO outstayed his welcome.

Silhouette Man

No, no, no. Twice was enough for the Sheriff to appear

Higgins

Chriscoop wrote:

Pepper adds nothing to tmwtgg, the car chase would lose nothing without him. He fitted into lald well but IMHO outstayed his welcome.

I disagree.
The TMWTGG car chase would be very boring if Pepper was not in that car

CoolHandBond

Clifton James' performance deserves a lot of praise, he makes J W Pepper a lovable buffoon instead of a racist bore. He played similar characters in a few movies after Bond and Jackie Gleason's cop in Smokey And The Bandit was clearly J W in disguise.

Chriscoop

Higgins wrote:

Chriscoop wrote:

Pepper adds nothing to tmwtgg, the car chase would lose nothing without him. He fitted into lald well but IMHO outstayed his welcome.

I disagree.
The TMWTGG car chase would be very boring if Pepper was not in that car

At last, after months of agreement we find something Boring? Honestly? With that soundtrack, hectic driving, and spectacular river jump and you have j w pepper falling around on the back seat as the car chase high point.

Chriscoop

CoolHandBond wrote:

Clifton James' performance deserves a lot of praise, he makes J W Pepper a lovable buffoon instead of a racist bore. He played similar characters in a few movies after Bond and Jackie Gleason's cop in Smokey And The Bandit was clearly J W in disguise.

His performance in lald is perfect for that film and location and works well, but on holiday in tmwtgg is just a tad excessive to me.

Higgins

well, I've enjoyed the banter between Pepper and Bond a lot

Chriscoop

That's fair enough, for me though just like bond I find him a bit annoying, and his wife also unfortunately.

Thunderpussy

I enjoyed him in LALD, but feel he shouldn't
Have been in TMWTGG.

Silhouette Man

To be honest, he probably shouldn't have been in any of the Bond films but there we are.

Barbel

I've said this before. but Pepper is present in LALD to add a degree of balance to the film. Without him, all the major white characters (Bond, Solitaire, Leiter) are shown as heroic while most of the major black characters (Mr Big/Kananga, Tee Hee, Rosie Carver) are presented as villains. There are heroic black characters too, of course (Quarrel and Strutter) but no villainous whites. Most of these characters are present in Fleming's novel.
Pepper isn't a villain but he is a fool and exists to be poked fun at by, well, everyone he meets so that not all of the major white characters are portrayed as fairly flawless.