Sorry number 24 , im sure if ASP 9mm was awake he would be the first to translate ,
RMP =Royal Military Police .
And SIB =Special investigation Branch , basically they are the British Army version of civilian police
Detectives (CID) most squadies (troops) would call them red caps after their famous scarlet berets ,
I have heard them referred to as Swan vestas . as your meant to strike their heads against the wall ,
But that's squadies talk
Personally I have seen an evolution and probably for the better.
When I was a young scroat it was the Army of the 80’s and physical management was prevalent. As a recruit I got ‘launched’ several times for discipline issues but it made me a more ‘robust soldier’. But it also in some cases went too far. Actually as a JNCO and SNCO I used various ‘motivational’ and ‘disciplinary’ options on soldiers who may have cocked up in some way and chosen that option vs recorded action that goes on your record and impacts your career.
However when the UK military lost crown immunity we lost all top cover in war and peace time and so legal punishment was a real possibility. But the raw soldier had evolved to be softer and less robust (the play station generation rather than the more rough and tumble of previous decades). So we had to evolve out of necessity and because a select few had crossed the line into bullying and real physical abuse (many civvies also consider robust training as bullying when actually it is proving to an individual they can do so much more with the right motivation). But there were some who went through such things as a junior soldier and saw it as a passage of right for those who followed.
Now military commanders have much more ‘administrative’ powers that are both legal and punishing to the individual but hold not risk to the commander issuing it. I know there are place where robust management exists but 12 years on constant ops made a much more professional armed force and there is a lesser requirement,
I have the greatest respect for those who join today there starting position is less robust that when I was their age. But with time they can reach and excel my standard from back in the day.
I don’t think you-will every fully eradicate physical punishment as there will always be the bad apples in any armed force but there are now better means of reporting, monitoring and dealing with it than before.
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
) ) that's the problem when you break ranks , when I did my PSU training
Our shields locked together and we all went forward as one line , so no one got dropped or left behind , we all went as one (like the Romans) but part of our PSU training was to be petrol bombed by the instructors , just so you knew what to expect , but then when it was my turn to go rioter , the cry of MILL---WALL went up , now down at Lydd in the pitch black this was very realistic
All NCOs would hit the recruit for doing something wrong in training or in discipline. I always thought it is better to be hit than to be charged or put in front of the officer for orders. It was not beating but to punch one or two times or to kick, or some times to hit with the open hand at the face. I do not think I ever known in my time of anyone who would not take this as punishment instead of extra duty or to lose pay or confine to barracks. Every one who joined the army knew of this as punishment anyway. I think perhaps we were different to people today in Europe. I was told that in DB there were many punishments. The soldier would be in fighting order (but no bayonet!) and have to take rocks from one place to another always at the double into a pile then take them all back to the first place again. DB was not a good place where beating was used to the soldier. Being hit and not going perhaps to be sent to DB was always better.
The Hill starring a very young Connery is a great British Military prison film ,very cruel very degrading and backwardly racist , this is a must film to watch if you are interested in Army punishment ,you won't regret watching it
Sorry number 24 , im sure if ASP 9mm was awake he would be the first to translate ,
RMP =Royal Military Police .
And SIB =Special investigation Branch , basically they are the British Army version of civilian police
Detectives (CID) most squadies (troops) would call them red caps after their famous scarlet berets ,
I have heard them referred to as Swan vestas . as your meant to strike their heads against the wall ,
But that's squadies talk
Thanks. There is "tribal language" inmost communities.
About corporal punishment in the military:
I read an autobiography of an SAS man some years ago. For a while he trainers Paras, I think it was to get experience as an instructor. The Para NCOs and officers hit the recruits, but the SAS soldier found it was counter-productive. The recruits just gave the response they thought the NCOs wanted to hear, not what they needed to hear. Much like torture.
It's a a change that's not necessarily for the better.
In Finland the change has been so that the military has less and less punitive power over it's personnel and recruits than it had back in the day.
When I did my national service, even a reserve officer cadet could order an preliminary investigation on an infraction that could lead up to 12 days of incarceration. These investigations were usually conducted by the unit co / xo and punishment was put in effect immediately. I launched several investigations my self, usually for something like someone being awol, insubordination or failure to follow a direct order.
Nowadays; all investigations that would lead to an incarceration of the guilty party will be handled by the civilian authorities with the help of the GHQ CID.
I remember (fondly) the time when I broke up a fight between artillery RNCOs returning from a garrison leave and MP's returning from guard duty that night. Apparently the drunken NCOs had shot off their mouths to the "dogs" at the gate, and the MPs decided to get some unofficial pay back. I was the acting duty officer at our barrack that night and was alerted to the situation when I heard the commotion from the designated smoking station. So; I grabbed a night stick from the Duty Officers station and charged the fight, hitting left and right!!! Everybody got their share and the culprits pretty quickly lost their taste for the battle and dispersed, cursing and all, to their respective barracks.
There was an investigation, of course, I received a commendation for my actions and an extra leave as a reward, the MPs received extra duty for misdemeanor dereliction of guard duty, and the artillery RNCOs got extra duty for conduct unbecoming... Privately my CO said that he was happy that I had obviously given the arty guys more than their "fair" share of the stick... You know what they say; you are allowed to make mistakes and be stupid, but not to be an artillery man! ) ) )
Anyways; this HUUUUGE!!! Gang-fight would draw HUMONGOUS!!!! headlines, if it were to happen today. Back then it barely registered on the daily life of the garrison. 8-)
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
I was a cadet in the mid 70's and then an adult instructor in the i990's. Are CSM use to hit you with his pace stick, mostly in the balls, bust also elsewhere, back in the 70's in my town, you didnt joint the Army Cadets, most of the lads had a choice,Army Cadets or Jail time/borstal, But myself and two others joined and stuck at it, one of my friends having a shirt button sewn to the back of his hand as punishment from a L/CPL for getting his squad in to trouble the not having the botton on the shirt, I also seen him get a hair cut from the same L/CPL. But I thrived on the discipline.
By the time 1990's were here things were not as strict as females were aloud to join
Yeah i was a gobby **** from a broken home with no discipline. I join the cadets because I got caught borrowing a car without permission. I thought it was the easy option until I met my Pl Comd and Sgt Maj both ex regular forces and hard bar stewards. Strangely our first meeting did not go well for me I ended with be doubled up on the floor clutching my crutch having been whacked in the balls with a pace stick for answering back. I learned very quickly to toe the line and then started to enjoy it.
Some might see it at bullying but back in the day it was attitude realignment - the fear of pain can be a great motivator!
I have a lot to thank those days for because I would not be where I am today and would probably be in prison were it not for that option being given to me all those years ago.
Its not going soft but times have changed and its call evolution and some did enjoy dishing it out a bit too much (sometimes killing people which is unacceptable).
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
I had a Military upbringing, my Father was in the USAF. AMMO a few pic memories for you, as my Dad was at some of the bases that you were but probably at different years..
in the 60's my Dad was in the Army 101st Airborne, came out after his tour of duty couldn't handle civilian life and joined the USAF. Im well proud of him :x
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,746Chief of Staff
The Hill starring a very young Connery is a great British Military prison film ,very cruel very degrading and backwardly racist , this is a must film to watch if you are interested in Army punishment ,you won't regret watching it
Connery was 35 in The Hill...not quite “very young”...but its all relative I suppose )
Here is a short military quiz. Feel free to contribute with questions and answers:)
1) About half of the aircraft carriers in the world are in the US Navy. Only one other country has more than one commisioned aircraft carrier. Guess the country.
2) How many cannons (artillery pieces) did the Swedish Army have from 2010-13? The person who guesses correctly within the nearest ten is the winner! (hint: it's the same number as the number of Danish submarines)
3) Guess the decade of the last bayonette charge in the British Army.
Here is a short military quiz. Feel free to contribute with questions and answers:)
1) About half of the aircraft carriers in the world are in the US Navy. Only one other country has more than one commisioned aircraft carrier. Guess the country. A: India
2) How many cannons (artillery pieces) did the Swedish Army have from 2010-13? The person who guesses correctly within the nearest ten is the winner! (hint: it's the same number as the number of Danish submarines) A: 25
3) Guess the decade of the last bayonette charge in the British Army. A:2014
4) What country has the most mountain troops? A: Pakistan
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
1) Both India and the UK has their second aircraft carrier waiting to be commisioned, but Italy (!) has two in service.
2) Sweden had zero artillery pieces in 2010-14. In a few years they will have 48 Archer-type cannons. Today's Swedish armed forces is only 6% of what they had in the cold war.
3) The last British bayonette charge I know of was in Afghanistan in 2009, but it's possible there was one in 2014 for all I know.
4) My answer would be India with 11 mountain divisions. But the whole of Pakistan's army has to train in the mountains a couple of months each year so it's a question of how you definer mountain troops, really.
I think the last British army bayonet charge against a regular army ( not a load of scruff bags waving AK47s ) was in the Falklands war .A lot of brave young men charged against Argentine troops in the pitch black ,and many paid the ultimate price . This does not in no way detract the guys out in Afghanistine who are just as brave (but I may be wrong I normally am )
The Falklands war, was also the only time the
Vulcan Bomber was used in action .
Yes I think your right there TP and I'm sure the thing almost ran out of fuel on the way back , which would have been very embarrassing for dear old Maggie if it had to ditch (and before any one jumps in and say Mrs Thatcher saved the Falklands , well the Argies shouldn't have bloody well been there in the first place under her watch X-(
Yes it was V Force was due for retirement at the time. However after such a long flight someone thought it a good idea to fly across the runway not up it, so only one bomb hit the tarmac! Not the RAF’s finest bombing raid but daring one none the less and great PR stunt even if it only closed the airfield for a day or two. The number of in flight refuels was horrendous (refuel the refuellers as much as the Vulcan itself) - would not want to be the one calculating those!
A piece of history in the making none the less and a good show of force at the time
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
I just read that the said Vulcan had to make a emergency landing in Brazil because it ran out of fuel .And Mrs T got very angry when the Brazilians refused to give it back . And she threatened them with war , whilst safely sitting in her bomb proof Cobra bunker
I just read that the said Vulcan had to make a emergency landing in Brazil because it ran out of fuel .And Mrs T got very angry when the Brazilians refused to give it back . And she threatened them with war , whilst safely sitting in her bomb proof Cobra bunker
I thought that was the ‘if all else fails’ plan but the original did get there and back though it was a bit tight. I do believe there was a certain helicopter that had to ditch in a certain country and that involved some intense negotiations and people with lots of black tape over their eyes
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
Apart from being an ex cadet (thanks to the Falklands Campaign), the poster said join the Army see the world and meet new people - forgot to mention some don’t like you and shoot at you, occupational hazard I guess.
Came from a broken home needed some discipline in my life and focus, joined loved every minute the rest is history (mine).
I guess many who leave miss the routine of military life (boredom interspersed with Adrenalin rushs), the comradeship and humour (civvies just don’t get it sometime not a criticism, but it’s a type of dark humour usually born through adversity). But time is a great healer and once you appreciate your personal left and right of arc is different to the general population (not a bad or better thing just different through experiences) you learn to adjust. Some don’t and fall by the way side or rejoin each to his own, but there are organisations there to help. Others find their second calling in life and fit in just fine.
The ticking time bomb in society is post traumatic stress there are hidden suffers everywhere and unless they admit it will never get the help they need. Through training we are told never to show weakness but you are only human and sometimes a bad experience scrambles the wiring a little (can happen equally to civilians as well), but if you acknowledge it and ask for help you can get it and learn to accept what life threw at you.
Small insight, I hope this helps
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
My lad who was a West end based police officer said .a lot of the rough sleepers on the streets of London are ex service personnel , which does seem very sad indeed ,as they can't seem to be o step back into civviy street
Thanks Bond44 for your story. Yes, there are many homeless ex-military on our streets. I wonder why that is seeing as a military background would be a good qualification for most employers. The TV adverts for the army, navy and air force, used to stress how joining them would enable you to learn a trade that later could be used in civilian life. I hear that most ex-military, though, tend to go into jobs that involve bodyguarding or other civilian security roles—some might even become mercenaries.
Comments
RMP = ?
SIB = ?
RMP =Royal Military Police .
And SIB =Special investigation Branch , basically they are the British Army version of civilian police
Detectives (CID) most squadies (troops) would call them red caps after their famous scarlet berets ,
I have heard them referred to as Swan vestas . as your meant to strike their heads against the wall ,
But that's squadies talk
When I was a young scroat it was the Army of the 80’s and physical management was prevalent. As a recruit I got ‘launched’ several times for discipline issues but it made me a more ‘robust soldier’. But it also in some cases went too far. Actually as a JNCO and SNCO I used various ‘motivational’ and ‘disciplinary’ options on soldiers who may have cocked up in some way and chosen that option vs recorded action that goes on your record and impacts your career.
However when the UK military lost crown immunity we lost all top cover in war and peace time and so legal punishment was a real possibility. But the raw soldier had evolved to be softer and less robust (the play station generation rather than the more rough and tumble of previous decades). So we had to evolve out of necessity and because a select few had crossed the line into bullying and real physical abuse (many civvies also consider robust training as bullying when actually it is proving to an individual they can do so much more with the right motivation). But there were some who went through such things as a junior soldier and saw it as a passage of right for those who followed.
Now military commanders have much more ‘administrative’ powers that are both legal and punishing to the individual but hold not risk to the commander issuing it. I know there are place where robust management exists but 12 years on constant ops made a much more professional armed force and there is a lesser requirement,
I have the greatest respect for those who join today there starting position is less robust that when I was their age. But with time they can reach and excel my standard from back in the day.
I don’t think you-will every fully eradicate physical punishment as there will always be the bad apples in any armed force but there are now better means of reporting, monitoring and dealing with it than before.
Cheers :007)
From a recent exercise sloppy drills or robust teaching methods - you decide
https://twitter.com/i/status/1006541066168885249
Cheers :007)
Our shields locked together and we all went forward as one line , so no one got dropped or left behind , we all went as one (like the Romans) but part of our PSU training was to be petrol bombed by the instructors , just so you knew what to expect , but then when it was my turn to go rioter , the cry of MILL---WALL went up , now down at Lydd in the pitch black this was very realistic
Thanks. There is "tribal language" inmost communities.
About corporal punishment in the military:
I read an autobiography of an SAS man some years ago. For a while he trainers Paras, I think it was to get experience as an instructor. The Para NCOs and officers hit the recruits, but the SAS soldier found it was counter-productive. The recruits just gave the response they thought the NCOs wanted to hear, not what they needed to hear. Much like torture.
In Finland the change has been so that the military has less and less punitive power over it's personnel and recruits than it had back in the day.
When I did my national service, even a reserve officer cadet could order an preliminary investigation on an infraction that could lead up to 12 days of incarceration. These investigations were usually conducted by the unit co / xo and punishment was put in effect immediately. I launched several investigations my self, usually for something like someone being awol, insubordination or failure to follow a direct order.
Nowadays; all investigations that would lead to an incarceration of the guilty party will be handled by the civilian authorities with the help of the GHQ CID.
I remember (fondly) the time when I broke up a fight between artillery RNCOs returning from a garrison leave and MP's returning from guard duty that night. Apparently the drunken NCOs had shot off their mouths to the "dogs" at the gate, and the MPs decided to get some unofficial pay back. I was the acting duty officer at our barrack that night and was alerted to the situation when I heard the commotion from the designated smoking station. So; I grabbed a night stick from the Duty Officers station and charged the fight, hitting left and right!!! Everybody got their share and the culprits pretty quickly lost their taste for the battle and dispersed, cursing and all, to their respective barracks.
There was an investigation, of course, I received a commendation for my actions and an extra leave as a reward, the MPs received extra duty for misdemeanor dereliction of guard duty, and the artillery RNCOs got extra duty for conduct unbecoming... Privately my CO said that he was happy that I had obviously given the arty guys more than their "fair" share of the stick... You know what they say; you are allowed to make mistakes and be stupid, but not to be an artillery man!
Anyways; this HUUUUGE!!! Gang-fight would draw HUMONGOUS!!!! headlines, if it were to happen today. Back then it barely registered on the daily life of the garrison. 8-)
-Mr Arlington Beech
By the time 1990's were here things were not as strict as females were aloud to join
Some might see it at bullying but back in the day it was attitude realignment - the fear of pain can be a great motivator!
I have a lot to thank those days for because I would not be where I am today and would probably be in prison were it not for that option being given to me all those years ago.
Its not going soft but times have changed and its call evolution and some did enjoy dishing it out a bit too much (sometimes killing people which is unacceptable).
Cheers :007)
in the 60's my Dad was in the Army 101st Airborne, came out after his tour of duty couldn't handle civilian life and joined the USAF. Im well proud of him :x
Connery was 35 in The Hill...not quite “very young”...but its all relative I suppose
1) About half of the aircraft carriers in the world are in the US Navy. Only one other country has more than one commisioned aircraft carrier. Guess the country.
2) How many cannons (artillery pieces) did the Swedish Army have from 2010-13? The person who guesses correctly within the nearest ten is the winner! (hint: it's the same number as the number of Danish submarines)
3) Guess the decade of the last bayonette charge in the British Army.
4) What country has the most mountain troops?
1) About half of the aircraft carriers in the world are in the US Navy. Only one other country has more than one commisioned aircraft carrier. Guess the country. A: India
2) How many cannons (artillery pieces) did the Swedish Army have from 2010-13? The person who guesses correctly within the nearest ten is the winner! (hint: it's the same number as the number of Danish submarines) A: 25
3) Guess the decade of the last bayonette charge in the British Army. A:2014
4) What country has the most mountain troops? A: Pakistan
-Mr Arlington Beech
2) Sweden had zero artillery pieces in 2010-14. In a few years they will have 48 Archer-type cannons. Today's Swedish armed forces is only 6% of what they had in the cold war.
3) The last British bayonette charge I know of was in Afghanistan in 2009, but it's possible there was one in 2014 for all I know.
4) My answer would be India with 11 mountain divisions. But the whole of Pakistan's army has to train in the mountains a couple of months each year so it's a question of how you definer mountain troops, really.
Vulcan Bomber was used in action .
A piece of history in the making none the less and a good show of force at the time
Cheers :007)
Cheers :007)
Cheers :007)
Can any of you say why you chose to join the military in the first place and if, after you left, adjusting to civilian life was difficult?
Apart from being an ex cadet (thanks to the Falklands Campaign), the poster said join the Army see the world and meet new people - forgot to mention some don’t like you and shoot at you, occupational hazard I guess.
Came from a broken home needed some discipline in my life and focus, joined loved every minute the rest is history (mine).
I guess many who leave miss the routine of military life (boredom interspersed with Adrenalin rushs), the comradeship and humour (civvies just don’t get it sometime not a criticism, but it’s a type of dark humour usually born through adversity). But time is a great healer and once you appreciate your personal left and right of arc is different to the general population (not a bad or better thing just different through experiences) you learn to adjust. Some don’t and fall by the way side or rejoin each to his own, but there are organisations there to help. Others find their second calling in life and fit in just fine.
The ticking time bomb in society is post traumatic stress there are hidden suffers everywhere and unless they admit it will never get the help they need. Through training we are told never to show weakness but you are only human and sometimes a bad experience scrambles the wiring a little (can happen equally to civilians as well), but if you acknowledge it and ask for help you can get it and learn to accept what life threw at you.
Small insight, I hope this helps
Cheers :007)