Why is the Bondala scene so hated?

MilleniumForce

It's one of the most hated - or at least regarded as silliest - scenes in the entire series, but why? Firstly, the scene is from Moonraker. The entire film is essentially a self parody of Bond, so if there's any film where a scene like this works, it would be here. Secondly, yes, Bond is supposed to be a spy and the Bondola is hardly inconspicuous, but how is it any different from driving a Lotus out of the sea onto a crowded beach? Plus, Bond was some sort of secretly celebrity in the 70's films, being known by many and having a reputation. Finally, it's not even that impractical of a gadget for Bond. It's on the same level as the Lotus in terms of being realistic, and considering Moonraker re hashes a lot of moments from TSWLM, the Bondala is, essentially, supposed to be the Lotus submarine of Moonraker.

heartbroken_mr_drax

MilleniumForce wrote:

The entire film is essentially a self parody of Bond, so if there's any film where a scene like this works, it would be here.

Following GF, almost all Bond films turned into a parody of itself - so I don't think MR is necessarily suddenly an odd one out here because of its more grandiose style...

As much as I love MR the Bondola scene is annoying to me because it's really unnecessary and it's a step too far in order to just make a joke. The Lotus in TSWLM is a joke too - but it has a useful (and epic) purpose, hiding from the chopper, shooting it with a missile and then inspecting the underwater elements.

IMO the Bondola is fine all the way up until it inflates and ends up on the square, he could've just inflated it (faster) and got up the steps at least and then jump out - that would be better...

Napoleon Plural

I enjoy the Bondola scene - but MF's defense of it is beyond the pale.

I mean, c'mon. It's one thing for Q branch to devise an underwater car - which admittedly only comes into a use in and adventure where there is a lot sea about - but another to devise a gadget strewn bondola vehicle when they can't even equip it with a bullet-proof Lady Penelope car-style transparent wind shield.

But defending it is like saying, 'Well, for the D-day landings preparation, the forces covertly developed all kinds of landing gear for the beaches, one in particular utilising hovercraft technology, so it's not that implausible...'

Chriscoop

It's just a throwaway comedic / action scene, the pigeon does it no favours, but in the context of Moore and Moonraker I like it just fine. In reality the bondola could only have gone in circles round St Marks square, it's too big to get out of there anywhere else other than the way it came in, which is where the bad guys are!

heartbroken_mr_drax

MR suffers from a few action scenes which aren't that well thought out, which is a shame because the movie would be tighter without them:

- Bondola
- Cable Car
- Ambulance ride with product placement
- Snake

The other action sequences are enjoyable and suspenseful, these ones are just annoying.

Unloved Season

I love Moonraker (in its own silly/fun way) but you have to admit that scene is pretty goofy. That's why it's great in my opinion. I don't think it's that the technology doesn't seem feasible (especially in a movie with a laser fight in space), or even the idea of it, it's just that in actual execution it looks goofy as hell. It's really a cool boat chase until Bond goes onto land, then everything turns corny. The combination of seeing Moore in the gondola, the music, the corny jokes. It's so bad it's good. But it is bad, not invisible car bad though.

Revolver66

No offence to those who like it or at least, don't mind it, but for me the Bondala scene is a terrible moment and one of the worst in the series. It's an utter piss take. The reason the Lotus coming out of the ocean in Spy works is because it's proceeded by a magnificent sequence and the moment has been appropriately set up. Plus we know already that it's a car and having it emerge out of the water is just returning it to its normal function.

The Bondala square sequence is proceeded by a very average and unexciting boat chase which is already campy and ridiculous and is only made worse once the transformation happens and it ends up in the square. And that double take pigeon? Spare me! The Lotus is obviously over the top as well but it works in context, which is why it is funny. Imagine being at the beach and seeing a car come out of the water? There's humour there. Imagine being in a restaurant square and some muppet floats past in a hovercraft Gondala. Oh the hilarity. 8-) Rubbish -{

heartbroken_mr_drax

Revolver66 wrote:

No offence to those who like it or at least, don't mind it, but for me the Bondala scene is a terrible moment and one of the worst in the series. It's an utter piss take. The reason the Lotus coming out of the ocean in Spy works is because it's proceeded by a magnificent sequence and the moment has been appropriately set up. Plus we know already that it's a car and having it emerge out of the water is just returning it to its normal function.

The Bondala square sequence is proceeded by a very average and unexciting boat chase which is already campy and ridiculous and is only made worse once the transformation happens and it ends up in the square. And that double take pigeon? Spare me! The Lotus is obviously over the top as well but it works in context, which is why it is funny. Imagine being at the beach and seeing a car come out of the water? There's humour there. Imagine being in a restaurant square and some muppet floats past in a hovercraft Gondala. Oh the hilarity. 8-) Rubbish -{

100% agree. TSWLM gets this so right, MR pushes it too far - and the ironic thing is, MR is already pushing things very far and would probably get away with more without this!

Firemass

Never had any ill-feelings towards the Bondola scene. It's threads like this where it has to be explained to me why others don't like it. Boat chase is one of my favorites in the series and the Bondola is icing on the cake.

Everything about the chase sequence is funny to me. The knife thrower who dies back in his coffin, the coffin getting clipped by the bridge, smoker who gets rid of his cig upon seeing the coffin. The young couple who continues making out after their gondola is split in half. Then the frustration of the henchman once the Bondola goes up on land. The reoccurring guy who checks his bottle. A director cameo and a great spectacle of Venice.
For me it's overall a better and more clever boat chase than LALD and TMWTGG.

My only complaint is Moonraker has two boat chases and no car chase.

heartbroken_mr_drax

Firemass wrote:

Everything about the chase sequence is funny to me. The knife thrower who dies back in his coffin, the coffin getting clipped by the bridge, smoker who gets rid of his cig upon seeing the coffin. The young couple who continues making out after their gondola is split in half. 

I like the cake, just not the "icing".

Chriscoop

Firemass wrote:

Never had any ill-feelings towards the Bondola scene. It's threads like this where it has to be explained to me why others don't like it. Boat chase is one of my favorites in the series and the Bondola is icing on the cake.

Everything about the chase sequence is funny to me. The knife thrower who dies back in his coffin, the coffin getting clipped by the bridge, smoker who gets rid of his cig upon seeing the coffin. The young couple who continues making out after their gondola is split in half. Then the frustration of the henchman once the Bondola goes up on land. The reoccurring guy who checks his bottle. A director cameo and a great spectacle of Venice.
For me it's overall a better and more clever boat chase than LALD and TMWTGG.

My only complaint is Moonraker has two boat chases and no car chase.

After reading your post, I think I owe MR a watch. Also I never thought this scene was so hated??

Firemass

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

Firemass wrote:

Everything about the chase sequence is funny to me. The knife thrower who dies back in his coffin, the coffin getting clipped by the bridge, smoker who gets rid of his cig upon seeing the coffin. The young couple who continues making out after their gondola is split in half. 

I like the cake, just not the "icing".

Haha, just curious how would you have decided to end the boat chase?
In all fairness, I admit there was no real need for the Bondola since it didn't lead to anything. Unlike the Lotus turning into a submarine which led to some great underwater action.

zaphod99

It's hated because it's cheap looking buffoonery. A low point in every way.

heartbroken_mr_drax

Firemass wrote:

Haha, just curious how would you have decided to end the boat chase?

Good question - the ending of it really has a lot to do with topping all the gags before it (which I agree are funny). There are a few options:

- The baddie could've crashed in a bombastic way, Bond could just slip away.
- Bond could've pulled up closely to the square and just jumped out based on how busy it was and blend in (like OP in the market).
- Bond could've gone down a really narrow canal?

Not sure, but Bondola is just too silly ) what's funny is that it threw Roger out a few times before they got a take that worked...

Napoleon Plural

The Moonraker novel by Christopher Wood dispenses with such silliness, but I can't recall how it ends.

Sir Hillary Bray

The Bondola scene is absurd and poor. I really enjoy MR as a whole, but so much of its structure is lifted straight from TSWLM, and as others have noted, the analogy here is the Lotus. An amphibious vehicle emerging from the water, a double-taking animal, Victor Tourjansky staring at his booze bottle, etc., etc. But the differences are important -- most notably that the Lotus had already been established as amphibious by the time it came onto dry land, whereas the Bondola is a surprise. Throw in the stunned waiter pouring the drink on his customer (pigeon, Tourjansky, waiter -- we needed three comic reaction shots??) and the Strauss polka (Viennese music -- they couldn't find something Italian??) and you have a low point in the series.

But, come on people, is it really worse than the "California Girls" scene? Talk about the bottom of the barrel...

Matt S

Sir Hillary Bray wrote:

But, come on people, is it really worse than the "California Girls" scene? Talk about the bottom of the barrel...

The Bondola scene is more entertaining. The California Girls scene bothers me more because the music ruins what could have been a decent moment. The Bondola isn't a ruined sequence because the whole thing is absurd.

caractacus potts

this scene is followed by a really great action sequence, played straight: the glass factory fight
there didn't need to be two major action sequences during the Venice scenes, but I suppose the canal chase allowed them to show off the scenery, whereas the glass factory was probably filmed in a studio
so its good to let us see those canals, but I think the plot would work exactly the same if that whole gondola sequence could be snipped out

much like the pointless fire engine chase in A View to a Kill, which immediately follows the thrilling and essential elevator escape

comparing to the Lotus sequence in Spy, that scene also allows Bond and Anya to get a closer look at the villains headquarters from below, advancing the plot, and the dialog builds the rivalry between the two spies, so it serves a couple purposes beyond looking cool
Spy might not make so much sense if you edited out the underwater Lotus scene

heartbroken_mr_drax

caractacus potts wrote:

there didn't need to be two major action sequences during the Venice scenes

As I noted above, one of the issues I have with MR is that there are too many action sequences one after the other in the middle of the film.

Barbel

Napoleon Plural wrote:

The Moonraker novel by Christopher Wood dispenses with such silliness, but I can't recall how it ends.

Bond ends up in a dead end as the villain's speedboat bears down on him. He shoots the one steering, then leaps up to grab a railing and swing to the pavement. The villain's boat crashes into the gondola and "boom".

heartbroken_mr_drax

Barbel wrote:

Napoleon Plural wrote:

The Moonraker novel by Christopher Wood dispenses with such silliness, but I can't recall how it ends.

Bond ends up in a dead end as the villain's speedboat bears down on him. He shoots the one steering, then leaps up to grab a railing and swing to the pavement. The villain's boat crashes into the gondola and "boom".

These types of rip s*it and bust action sequences are only really able to be completed in the CGI heavy Craig era!!

Matt S

Barbel wrote:

Napoleon Plural wrote:

The Moonraker novel by Christopher Wood dispenses with such silliness, but I can't recall how it ends.

Bond ends up in a dead end as the villain's speedboat bears down on him. He shoots the one steering, then leaps up to grab a railing and swing to the pavement. The villain's boat crashes into the gondola and "boom".

I kind of like how Bond doesn't kill his pursuers in the film. Not everyone has to die.

Barbel

Perhaps it's because the book didn't have to receive an 'A' certificate? Martin Campbell once commented that he had to show Russian soldiers escaping unharmed from their car after Bond's tank rolled right over it for that very reason.

Jovius

It seems odd to pick on this one scene in particular when the entire movie is pretty bad. Even Moore fans can't kid themselves here, let's be real!

Barbel: Personally, I dislike that I was forced to shoot Russian soldiers in the "Goldeneye: Reloaded" video game. Would have much preferred to outwit them non-lethally as in the movie. Yes, admittedly, it's a "gritty" Daniel Craig era retelling, but I spent the entire previous level carefully karate chopping everyone. Then in the next one they throw every single soldier within a square mile at me and there's no other choice. They're just doing their job, man!

heartbroken_mr_drax

Jovius wrote:

It seems odd to pick on this one scene in particular when the entire movie is pretty bad. Even Moore fans can't kid themselves here, let's be real!

Respectfully disagree. While this scene is terrible - Moonraker overall is brilliant in its technical achievement, key performances, soundtrack, production values and the tightness of the plot. It's entertaining and at the same time quite dark - one of the most awful of schemes. There certainly are weaknesses to the film (chemistry, overdone jokes, overindulgence) but these are common issues in many of the Bond films - including the ones considered greater than this!

"Let's be real", Bond was going to head into space at some point (he nearly did in YOLT as someone has already pointed out) and Moonraker was opportune at the time. Others have already pointed out in this thread that MR doesn't take itself too seriously - if it did, I don't think the space elements would work as well as they do...

Matt S

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

Jovius wrote:

It seems odd to pick on this one scene in particular when the entire movie is pretty bad. Even Moore fans can't kid themselves here, let's be real!

Respectfully disagree. While this scene is terrible - Moonraker overall is brilliant in its technical achievement, key performances, soundtrack, production values and the tightness of the plot. It's entertaining and at the same time quite dark - one of the most awful of schemes. There certainly are weaknesses to the film (chemistry, overdone jokes, overindulgence) but these are common issues in many of the Bond films - including the ones considered greater than this!

"Let's be real", Bond was going to head into space at some point (he nearly did in YOLT as someone has already pointed out) and Moonraker was opportune at the time. Others have already pointed out in this thread that MR doesn't take itself too seriously - if it did, I don't think the space elements would work as well as they do...

I have to agree here. I think Moonraker makes the many unbelievable aspects work because it doesn't take itself seriously at all. I think it is one of the most enjoyable Bond films to watch.

Firemass

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

caractacus potts wrote:

there didn't need to be two major action sequences during the Venice scenes

As I noted above, one of the issues I have with MR is that there are too many action sequences one after the other in the middle of the film.

One of the things I like about Moonraker is the number of action sequences in the middle of the film are worthy of being a pre-title sequence. This higher standard is why the chase needed a big finale like the Bondola. (Or Bond hang-gliding off a waterfall etc)
Moonraker pushes itself to the limit and delivers the most entertainment out of any Bond film.

Also, for those saying the Bondola is the inverse of the Lotus: Don't compare it to the Lotus driving up on the beach, but rather diving off the dock which was indeed a surprise.

Mr Snow

The fact so many people referred to the scene as 'Bondola' speaks volumes.

Pathetic scene in a pathetic film. It was that contrived it was embarrassing.

Seriously, the Moore Bond films were when they were at their lowest point. I like Moore - don't get me wrong, it's not his fault but Moonraker should consider itself lucky the 'Golden Raspberry Awards' weren't around then or it would have won more 'awards' than Ben-Hur, Titanic and The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King all put together.

Higgins

MR a pathetic movie??
Pathetic statement I say!

You clearly have no idea how a 1980 blockbuster movie looked like!

MR was by a mile an extremely successful movie and shed loads of cash to EON - highest grossing movie of the year worldwide!!!!
Those movies have been made for the time and for the big screens.

They have not been done for Nerds, who politically correct dissect every detail by pause-playing those masterpieces at home and compare them with movies that have been done 35 years later - after tastes and situations have changed dramatically several times!!

Compare the Bondola to some stunts that were in the cinema around 1980 and you'll take your statements back.

heartbroken_mr_drax

OGG007 wrote:

The fact so many people referred to the scene as 'Bondola' speaks volumes.

Pathetic scene in a pathetic film. It was that contrived it was embarrassing.

Seriously, the Moore Bond films were when they were at their lowest point. I like Moore - don't get me wrong, it's not his fault but Moonraker should consider itself lucky the 'Golden Raspberry Awards' weren't around then or it would have won more 'awards' than Ben-Hur, Titanic and The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King all put together.

Yeah heard it all before mate, nothing beats the 60s, nothing beats Sean. Give me a break.

Mr Snow

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

OGG007 wrote:

The fact so many people referred to the scene as 'Bondola' speaks volumes.

Pathetic scene in a pathetic film. It was that contrived it was embarrassing.

Seriously, the Moore Bond films were when they were at their lowest point. I like Moore - don't get me wrong, it's not his fault but Moonraker should consider itself lucky the 'Golden Raspberry Awards' weren't around then or it would have won more 'awards' than Ben-Hur, Titanic and The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King all put together.

Yeah heard it all before mate, nothing beats the 60s, nothing beats Sean. Give me a break.

Give you a break about what? What would you prefer, somebody to be a yes man and just agree with everything you and Higgins say? How many times have people voiced their opinion more than once on a film, Bond etc that may not be to your liking? Or am I the only one?