Yes the UK consumer is, but to an extent the high value pound is makes UK companies less competitive, as it becomes cheaper to buy from abroad ( the government giving huge train deals to Siemens is one example) also no one including the Eu has managed to stop the Chinese flooding world markets with their cheap products.
Uk companies are uncompetitive because of many things - only one factor is the high currency and if you are competitive - a high currency doesn't keep you off from being successful.
Your industrial sector needs modernisation - who is gonna pay for this and who is willing to invest in such a small player?
Just take the british car companies. They would be dead for 2 decades if the germans wouldn't have invested. Do you think, that anyone will do that when the UK are out of the EU?
As for the chinese flooding the markets with their products - I partly agree but UK consumers heavily benefit from these cheap products. Would be eye-popping to see the prices of these products to UK prices
And wait for some years, then the chinese are flooding he markets with not so cheap but extremel good products and ask, if your outdated and incompetitive industrial sector can then compete?
The times, where chinese products where only cheap and not good are soon gone.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Back to Britain: Who thinks Theresa May will still be PM and Tory leader by Christmas.
I'm undecided, on one hand I think it depends what stats the election results throw up! Also is the Brexit negotiations and economy which need some settled times to deal with. At the moment over here the mood that I've seen is one of " election was a waste of time, it's business as usual" most people are seeing the fact the tories got nearly a million more votes than Labour and have 60 odd more seats than Labour as a Tory win, which it was. But on the other hand she ran a negative campaign, looked indecisive and people didn't connect with her due to her absence, people will watch a TV debate but not take time out of their lives to go and see her on one of her visits. She's old school and also appeared to abandon the centre ground. I think she will stay for now but will not fight another election.
Uk companies are uncompetitive because of many things - only one factor is the high currency and if you are competitive - a high currency doesn't keep you off from being successful.
Your industrial sector needs modernisation - who is gonna pay for this and who is willing to invest in such a small player?
Just take the british car companies. They would be dead for 2 decades if the germans wouldn't have invested. Do you think, that anyone will do that when the UK are out of the EU?
As for the chinese flooding the markets with their products - I partly agree but UK consumers heavily benefit from these cheap products. Would be eye-popping to see the prices of these products to UK prices
And wait for some years, then the chinese are flooding he markets with not so cheap but extremel good products and ask, if your outdated and incompetitive industrial sector can then compete?
The times, where chinese products where only cheap and not good are soon gone.
So what you are saying is that as a member of the Eu we have not been protected from cheap Chinese imports, unlike the rest of Europe who don't benefit from cheap Chinese products??
No, my content from above is that global trade and industry is not that easy ' hey, lets dumb down our currency and we are then competitive'
Or 'we would be highly successfully but our currency is too high'
Winning a price competition 'I am the cheapest' is a dangerous path and you need more pros than just a cheap currency/price in most cases.
Just as an example: Many other markets have their own laws, regulations/requirements than the EU and including all these rules into industrial products (compliance) is a tremendous task!
Of course, we all in the EU are benefitting from cheap chinese products.
The question often is, if you are willing to pay a 10 times higher price, if simple products ( such as household items, clothing etc) are made in the EU.
And another question is, if you have companies willing and being able to produce these simple items in country and just for the local market with expensive labour and high taxes.
Protection is then needed when dumping is an issue and there the EU can be more efficient than a single country.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No, my content from above is that global trade and industry is not that easy ' hey, lets dumb down our currency and we are then competitive'
Or 'we would be highly successfully but our currency is too high'
Winning a price competition 'I am the cheapest' is a dangerous path and you need more pros than just a cheap currency/price in most cases.
Just as an example: Many other markets have their own laws, regulations/requirements than the EU and including all these rules into industrial products (compliance) is a tremendous task!
Of course, we all in the EU are benefitting from cheap chinese products.
The question often is, if you are willing to pay a 10 times higher price, if simple products ( such as household items, clothing etc) are made in the EU.
And another question is, if you have companies willing and being able to produce these simple items in country and just for the local market with expensive labour and high taxes.
Protection is then needed when dumping is an issue and there the EU can be more efficient than a single country.
My small point is merely that a devalued pound has helped export bias companies, one that I know of in Sheffield has orders fulfilled (payed for) up 30% and an order book filled for 2 years. But as always there are winners and losers, the weakened pound has also boosted the ftse which in turn helps pensions and investments. It's not ideal but it's there.
In the UK the two biggest agricultural machinery suppliers are John Deere and MASSEY FERGUSON, one is a US company the other is a US / Canadian company, The biggest Eu based company is CLAAS which is more expensive, but not regarded as better.
It was either that.....or the priesthood
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,818MI6 Agent
Back to Britain: Who thinks Theresa May will still be PM and Tory leader by Christmas.
Christmas?! - She'll be out the door before the September Equinox!
If not by her own incompetence, then by a leadership challenge, or collapse of a minority government.
All assuming a deal with the DUP gets off the ground in the first place.
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
I don't think Anyone in the Tory party wants the job.
So will leave her in place to try and mend this
Omnishambles, then when she is expendable .....
... The spectre meeting will be convened .....
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,818MI6 Agent
I don't think Anyone in the Tory party wants the job.
So will leave her in place to try and mend this
Omnishambles, then when she is expendable .....
... The spectre meeting will be convened .....
(Trying to sound like Michael Lonsdale) This administration does not tolerate mind-numbingly, incalculable, painfuly blatent, obvious incompitent failure!
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
Just an example of a small and local player not being able to compete alone in a global environment.
Claas is regarded as highly innovative and successful as far as I am hearing.
2012 they had an export rate of 77% , not bad for a company that regarded as too expensive ;%
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Just an example of a small and local player not being able to compete alone in a global environment.
Claas is regarded as highly innovative and successful as far as I am hearing.
2012 they had an export rate of 77% , not bad for a company that regarded as too expensive ;%
But you blindly or purposely miss my point, which was that in this instance cheaper and comparable quality items are being bought more from a source outside of the Eu than from one in which in this example negates some but not all of your arguments. You would see this if you weren't always seeing stars....... 27 of them on a blue background
I also said they were a us company
My point was, that the UK industry is outdated and not competitive and a lower GBP won't help much in that matter.
I gave you several examples about the reasons and the consequences and that the UK absolutely are depending on imports.
Whether they come from the EU (and these are getting more expensive after Brexit for the UK consumers) or from outside is irrelevent. It does not bring your local industry back.
And it proves my point:
Let's say, Claas Machine X costs EUR 100.000,-- now
John Deere Machine X costs EUR 110.000 now - which means Claas is cheaper because of the EU
If John Deere was 95.000,-- you would buy John Deere anyhow....
After Brexit Claas machine x raises to 125.000 because of a duty, the better choice is John Deere then at 110.000,--
But at the end of the day, it's still more expensive then 100.000, so everything gets more expensive for the UK consumer in the end.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
My point was, that the UK industry is outdated and not competitive and a lower GBP won't help much in that matter.
I gave you several examples about the reasons and the consequences and that the UK absolutely are depending on imports.
Whether they come from the EU (and these are getting more expensive after Brexit for the UK consumers) or from outside is irrelevent. It does not bring your local industry back.
And it proves my point:
Let's say, Claas Machine X costs EUR 100.000,-- now
John Deere Machine X costs EUR 110.000 now - which means Claas is cheaper because of the EU
If John Deere was 95.000,-- you would buy John Deere anyhow....
After Brexit Claas machine x raises to 125.000 because of a duty, the better choice is John Deere then at 110.000,--
But at the end of the day, it's still more expensive than 100.000, so everything gets more expensive for the UK consumer in the end.
At the moment the UK is still in the EU, and here as well as on the continent a US company is supplying cheaper and comparable quality items than products supplied from the Eu. it's not a particularely passionate subject of mine but one example of one misconception.
At the moment the UK is still in the EU, and here as well as on the continent a US company is supplying cheaper and comparable quality items than products supplied from the Eu. it's not a particularely passionate subject of mine but one example of one misconception.
Well yes, I did not dispute that we all import some goods from the US.
As far as I recall, our discussion was about the benefit of Brexit and a cheaper currency for the UK industrial sector and the UK consumer and I fail to see any from your example.
From what I am hearing here, many buy Claas and not out of sheer patriotism.
So the higher price may come with another benefit - german farmers ain't stupid or overly rich.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
At the moment the UK is still in the EU, and here as well as on the continent a US company is supplying cheaper and comparable quality items than products supplied from the Eu. it's not a particularely passionate subject of mine but one example of one misconception.
Well yes, I did not dispute that we all import some goods from the US.
As far as I recall, our discussion was about the benefit of Brexit and a cheaper currency for the UK industrial sector and the UK consumer and I fail to see any from your example.
From what I am hearing here, many buy Claas and not out of sheer patriotism.
So the higher price may come with another benefit - german farmers ain't stupid or overly rich.
No neither are British farmers, and many do buy Claas products, they are after all very good.
The Torys have made an agreement with DUP - that was quick. On the news here they are just called "The Northern Irish unionist party, and I've learnt that's inaccurate. The DUP seems...... not very easy to like.
Homophobic, climate change-denying, some say racist.
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,818MI6 Agent
According to BBC news, the Conservatives have now said that statement was an error.
Discussions are still ongoing. According to the DUP, "Talks so far have been positive."
The Liberal Democrats want public disclosure on any propoded deal. - Good luck with that. May hasn't been public about anything.
Labour argues that the Government has no credibility. (The PM certainly doesn't anymore.)
Boris Johnson has denied plots of a leadership bid. Which almost certainly means he is prepping his idea of a cabinet and media schedule.
Most worryingly though Sinn Féin's leader in Northern Ireland Michelle O'Neill said the DUP had "betrayed the interests of the people" and the new arrangement would "end in tears".
May's legacy could well be two waves of terrorisim across a UK frozen out of European and American influence.
That Woman should go, now.
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
From what I remember from just before May became PM, Boris is probably doing something sneaky to topple May. It's incredible that the PM's office manages to create more confusion now.
Pretty much none of the parties has covered* themselves in glory. May was naive in for calling for an election, Labour's sums don't add up. There are racist and homophobic elements in every party, from the Labour MPs who evidently voted against gay marriage, accusations of anti-semitism, to UKIP's clear xenophobia. As for Boris, he's proved himself untrustworthy enough already.
Calling for an election at the time she did it was a good strategy. It was following up with an arrogant and I incompetent campaign wasn't. Parroting "strong and stable leadership" every time she saw a journalist, not showing up for debates and launching unpopular suggestions - I would like to know the name of the PR consultant who suggested that!
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,818MI6 Agent
It was political suicide! Especially so soon before Brit-Exit starts.
To answer your question, Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill. Both have been sacked.
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
Pretty much none of the parties has covered* themselves in glory. May was naive in for calling for an election, Labour's sums don't add up. There are racist and homophobic elements in every party, from the Labour MPs who evidently voted against gay marriage, accusations of anti-semitism, to UKIP's clear xenophobia. As for Boris, he's proved himself untrustworthy enough already.
(* or 'covfefe' if you prefer )
When was Boris sneaky? Ive missed that, from what I've seen he ran for the leadership backed by gove when Cameron deserted the post. If Gove hadn't have stabbed him in the back we would have him as prime minister, the tories would have a majority, this election would never have happened and we would be in a more stable position. Gove is responsible for putting his own ambition before the country and Cameron is responsible for giving a referendum the result of which he was not prepared to deal with.
With regards this new shambles with the DUP! I suspect there has been some self serving back tracking on their behalf to hammer home their importance to the government. Either way the tories have a majority of seats and if their back benchers behave they still have an OK chance of winning votes. Let's also not forget that the Labour party despite their gains are still a split party who have enough in fighting themselves.
Comments
Back to Britain: Who thinks Theresa May will still be PM and Tory leader by Christmas.
Your industrial sector needs modernisation - who is gonna pay for this and who is willing to invest in such a small player?
Just take the british car companies. They would be dead for 2 decades if the germans wouldn't have invested. Do you think, that anyone will do that when the UK are out of the EU?
As for the chinese flooding the markets with their products - I partly agree but UK consumers heavily benefit from these cheap products. Would be eye-popping to see the prices of these products to UK prices
And wait for some years, then the chinese are flooding he markets with not so cheap but extremel good products and ask, if your outdated and incompetitive industrial sector can then compete?
The times, where chinese products where only cheap and not good are soon gone.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I'm undecided, on one hand I think it depends what stats the election results throw up! Also is the Brexit negotiations and economy which need some settled times to deal with. At the moment over here the mood that I've seen is one of " election was a waste of time, it's business as usual" most people are seeing the fact the tories got nearly a million more votes than Labour and have 60 odd more seats than Labour as a Tory win, which it was. But on the other hand she ran a negative campaign, looked indecisive and people didn't connect with her due to her absence, people will watch a TV debate but not take time out of their lives to go and see her on one of her visits. She's old school and also appeared to abandon the centre ground. I think she will stay for now but will not fight another election.
So what you are saying is that as a member of the Eu we have not been protected from cheap Chinese imports, unlike the rest of Europe who don't benefit from cheap Chinese products??
Or 'we would be highly successfully but our currency is too high'
Winning a price competition 'I am the cheapest' is a dangerous path and you need more pros than just a cheap currency/price in most cases.
Just as an example: Many other markets have their own laws, regulations/requirements than the EU and including all these rules into industrial products (compliance) is a tremendous task!
Of course, we all in the EU are benefitting from cheap chinese products.
The question often is, if you are willing to pay a 10 times higher price, if simple products ( such as household items, clothing etc) are made in the EU.
And another question is, if you have companies willing and being able to produce these simple items in country and just for the local market with expensive labour and high taxes.
Protection is then needed when dumping is an issue and there the EU can be more efficient than a single country.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
My small point is merely that a devalued pound has helped export bias companies, one that I know of in Sheffield has orders fulfilled (payed for) up 30% and an order book filled for 2 years. But as always there are winners and losers, the weakened pound has also boosted the ftse which in turn helps pensions and investments. It's not ideal but it's there.
In the UK the two biggest agricultural machinery suppliers are John Deere and MASSEY FERGUSON, one is a US company the other is a US / Canadian company, The biggest Eu based company is CLAAS which is more expensive, but not regarded as better.
Christmas?! - She'll be out the door before the September Equinox!
If not by her own incompetence, then by a leadership challenge, or collapse of a minority government.
All assuming a deal with the DUP gets off the ground in the first place.
Can anyone explain that 6 month deadline?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
So will leave her in place to try and mend this
Omnishambles, then when she is expendable .....
... The spectre meeting will be convened .....
(Trying to sound like Michael Lonsdale) This administration does not tolerate mind-numbingly, incalculable, painfuly blatent, obvious incompitent failure!
http://www.masseyferguson.co.uk/manufacturing.aspx
Just an example of a small and local player not being able to compete alone in a global environment.
Claas is regarded as highly innovative and successful as far as I am hearing.
2012 they had an export rate of 77% , not bad for a company that regarded as too expensive ;%
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
But you blindly or purposely miss my point, which was that in this instance cheaper and comparable quality items are being bought more from a source outside of the Eu than from one in which in this example negates some but not all of your arguments. You would see this if you weren't always seeing stars....... 27 of them on a blue background
I also said they were a us company
My point was, that the UK industry is outdated and not competitive and a lower GBP won't help much in that matter.
I gave you several examples about the reasons and the consequences and that the UK absolutely are depending on imports.
Whether they come from the EU (and these are getting more expensive after Brexit for the UK consumers) or from outside is irrelevent. It does not bring your local industry back.
And it proves my point:
Let's say, Claas Machine X costs EUR 100.000,-- now
John Deere Machine X costs EUR 110.000 now - which means Claas is cheaper because of the EU
If John Deere was 95.000,-- you would buy John Deere anyhow....
After Brexit Claas machine x raises to 125.000 because of a duty, the better choice is John Deere then at 110.000,--
But at the end of the day, it's still more expensive then 100.000, so everything gets more expensive for the UK consumer in the end.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
At the moment the UK is still in the EU, and here as well as on the continent a US company is supplying cheaper and comparable quality items than products supplied from the Eu. it's not a particularely passionate subject of mine but one example of one misconception.
Well yes, I did not dispute that we all import some goods from the US.
As far as I recall, our discussion was about the benefit of Brexit and a cheaper currency for the UK industrial sector and the UK consumer and I fail to see any from your example.
From what I am hearing here, many buy Claas and not out of sheer patriotism.
So the higher price may come with another benefit - german farmers ain't stupid or overly rich.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
No neither are British farmers, and many do buy Claas products, they are after all very good.
Homophobic, climate change-denying, some say racist.
Discussions are still ongoing. According to the DUP, "Talks so far have been positive."
The Liberal Democrats want public disclosure on any propoded deal. - Good luck with that. May hasn't been public about anything.
Labour argues that the Government has no credibility. (The PM certainly doesn't anymore.)
Boris Johnson has denied plots of a leadership bid. Which almost certainly means he is prepping his idea of a cabinet and media schedule.
Most worryingly though Sinn Féin's leader in Northern Ireland Michelle O'Neill said the DUP had "betrayed the interests of the people" and the new arrangement would "end in tears".
May's legacy could well be two waves of terrorisim across a UK frozen out of European and American influence.
That Woman should go, now.
one minute it's a done deal, ...... the next they're still in talks !
(* or 'covfefe' if you prefer
I found it sneaky under the cover-up that she needs an official mandate.
Imo that's partly right but the main reason was to increase her majority and to destroy Corbyn
Well that worked out brilliant
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
To answer your question, Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill. Both have been sacked.
When was Boris sneaky? Ive missed that, from what I've seen he ran for the leadership backed by gove when Cameron deserted the post. If Gove hadn't have stabbed him in the back we would have him as prime minister, the tories would have a majority, this election would never have happened and we would be in a more stable position. Gove is responsible for putting his own ambition before the country and Cameron is responsible for giving a referendum the result of which he was not prepared to deal with.
With regards this new shambles with the DUP! I suspect there has been some self serving back tracking on their behalf to hammer home their importance to the government. Either way the tories have a majority of seats and if their back benchers behave they still have an OK chance of winning votes. Let's also not forget that the Labour party despite their gains are still a split party who have enough in fighting themselves.