One interesting aspect of this election is the dominance of the old, traditional parties. While the old parties that traditionally has held power took a serious beating in the French election and none of them made it to the second round, the oposite happened in Britain. The Tories and Labour combined hasn't held this much support combined since the 70's. The LibDems had a nice election, but the same can't be said about UKIP and the SNP.
That was a surprising result in my opinion as I had backed the Conservatives to win 350+ seats. it shows that you can't take the public for granted. Corbyn stuck to his guns and empowered the young vote through the media and assorted "celebs" coming to his aid. May was ineffectual throughout and undermining the very core vote that was supporting her.
I can see May being ousted for Johnson within weeks and another election in the Autumn. I can't imagine another hung parliament after another election it would either be a landslide either way and too tough to call at the moment.
The Conservative's need to pick themselves up, dust themselves down and come up with a manifesto that does not alienate their natural voters. Easier said than done but at least they know what they have to do now.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Yes he was pro Eu, but admits to changing tact due to what he witnessed in Brussels.
He was correspondent in Brussels 1989 - 1994 and certainly had deep insight.
If it was true what you and he says - he'd been Anti-EU for much longer than from 2015.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
One interesting aspect of this election is the dominance of the old, traditional parties. While the old parties that traditionally has held power took a serious beating in the French election and none of them made it to the second round, the oposite happened in Britain. The Tories and Labour combined hasn't held this much support combined since the 70's. The LibDems had a nice election, but the same can't be said about UKIP and the SNP.
That's part of the "The winner takes it all" voting system in the UK.
You'll have to win a voting district - the share of total votes does not count. Like in the US, this system breeds a 2-party system where the others are and remain almost irrelevent.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
As they say in politics never have an election or vote unless you are sure you are going to win (this was May's to loose and she did in my eyes) and of course eventually all political careers end in failure as they all do.
I think it is now as clear as it has ever been (with the margins so slim in this election and BREXIT) that the UK is split down the middle. This campaign was built on one side on a personality (May) who has not shown Strong and Stable Leadership that she spoke about (saying it in no way makes it true - if that is what you say then you take every opportunity to demonstrate it publicly through joining debates, arguing and fighting your corner and your manifesto - that is strong leadership). To demonstrate it you have to live by your actions as they speak louder than words. Whoever was advising her on her campaign needs to go draw the Mess Webley and dispatch themselves to their maker forthwith.
On the other side was a perceived weaker candidate there for the slaughter, but who had party policies that resonated with a couple of key sections of society to increase their vote. The fact that the figures never stood up to scrutiny means little they sold the right story. In fact go back 10+ years and that same party had bankrupted the UK PLC with a huge financial deficit on departure (think parting letter ' I am afraid there is no money') - oh how the electorate has such short memories!
They are all as bad as each other fecking useless.
My concern is what we look like on the world stage - simple a country divided no wonder we lost an empire we cannot agree on anything anymore. Small light is maybe this will lead to more discussion or consensus on the key topics of BREXIT in the UK, which the government can then enact time will tell.
Until the leaders of our political parties wake up and realise Leadership is a a privilege not a right, to Lead the country you have to invest effort and work bl00dy hard at it not sit back - no one party will ever obtain a clear majority and win - Simple.
Thinking of starting my own party called simple ' The Common Sense Party'!!
Of course then there is always the alternative, May did not want BREXIT, but got the Leadership because frankly there was no one else. By holding an election and losing she no longer has to worry about a Hard BREXIT stance (not that I ever really believed her wacking a few BREXITiers in your government does not make it so). This is because the electorate has taken that away from her (you could say we created the perfect storm). Meaning obtaining the 'Best fit for both sides' option is much easier to achieve than a Hard BREXIT for UK only would ever have been in reality. Meaning we may just leave the EU in name only (and bring Farage back into politics to inject some humour once again) .
Time will tell, interesting times ahead.
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
The system has been there for a very long time,so it doesn't explain the whole thing. Instead of giving up the traditinal parties like people have done in many European counries lately, the British chose to flock behind the,. Interesting.
I understand May has decided not to step down and instead lead a minority government - what a perfect way to enter the most important negotitions since the 70's!
Bond44's posts are usually thoughtful and interesting, including this one. But while Britain is divided down the middle, it's not nearly as divided as the cousin accross the pond. I don't see the hate and almost war-like retoric in Britain. Count your blessings!
cheers, b44 and may I add, that it'd all begin with politicians standing to their beliefs!
I've heard praises for May being pro-Eu but serving her country and the voter's will.
That's one way to take it - opportunist politic approach of an order-receiver I say.
It's the parties and the politicians duty to outline a manifesto (has anyone heard about what May wanted to achieve in the Brexit negotiations?) and the voters chose what they prefer.
Adjusting your politics just to fill a gap that is let by the other party or 180 turns in order to run after certain voter decisions does not help with the confidence of the people in their politic elite.....
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Well, she certainly knows that the Queen has met quite a number of PMs in her career.
Some where outstanding and some of them where really bad. I guess that May knows exactly what the Queen thinks about her
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Bond44's posts are usually thoughtful and interesting, including this one. But while Britain is divided down the middle, it's not nearly as divided as the cousin accross the pond. I don't see the hate and almost war-like retoric in Britain. Count your blessings!
Totally agree and in some ways while I am disappointed in May and her poor campaign and leadership (far from strong and stable but then I guess I have witness that for real on operations where true leaders are born), I have been pleasantly surprised by Corbyn and his campaign. This election came down to two things the Leaders character and their party manifesto and how that was delivered, one party got it the other was off the mark - the result mediocrity.
I am of course thankful things have not reached the point as they have across the pond. But and I do not think this applies just to the UK, I believe there is a ground swell of opinion in most countries that is turning against current governments and the political elite in some quarters. In some way as in the US the UK found itself choosing between the least worst candidate - how mad is that?
As for the PM meeting the Queen to form a new minority government I am sure she had one word - ****! (I bet there are moves for first past the line results for future elections though - that would have given May a majority win she sought).
Cheers :007)
My name is Bond, Basildon Bond - I have letters after my name!
Bond44's posts are usually thoughtful and interesting, including this one. But while Britain is divided down the middle, it's not nearly as divided as the cousin accross the pond. I don't see the hate and almost war-like retoric in Britain. Count your blessings!
Totally agree and in some ways while I am disappointed in May and her poor campaign and leadership (far from strong and stable but then I guess I have witness that for real on operations where true leaders are born), I have been pleasantly surprised by Corbyn and his campaign. This election came down to two things the Leaders character and their party manifesto and how that was delivered, one party got it the other was off the mark - the result mediocrity.
I am of course thankful things have not reached the point as they have across the pond. But and I do not think this applies just to the UK, I believe there is a ground swell of opinion in most countries that is turning against current governments and the political elite in some quarters. In some way as in the US the UK found itself choosing between the least worst candidate - how mad is that?
As for the PM meeting the Queen to form a new minority government I am sure she had one word - ****! (I bet there are moves for first past the line results for future elections though - that would have given May a majority win she sought).
I didn't even know there were two of them. Can you explain the difference in small, easy words, please?
Well, the Ulster Unionist Party (UUP) is much older, with its origins from the Irish Unionist Party. It was formed out of the Ulster Unionist Council in 1905, opposed Home Rule and ruled Northern Ireland for over 50 years as the majority party between 1921 (when Northern Ireland was founded as a separate state after the partition of Ireland) and 1972, when the Stormont parliament was prorogued by the Edward Heath Conservative Government.
They again were the majority party at Stormont when devolution was returned to Northern Ireland under First Minister and UUP Leader David Trimble 1999-2002, and Seamus Mallon of the moderate nationalist SDLP after the Belfast or Good Friday Agreement of 1998.
Since then, its fortunes have dwindled, being the more moderate party within NI unionism. The Rev Dr Ian Paisley created the Protestant Unionist Party in 1970 to fight the 1970 General Election. He took North Antrim from the UUP and held it until he stood down in 2010. His son Ian Paisley Jnr then took over and still holds the seat today. The DUP was formed in 1971 out of the PUP that preceded it. From 2003 the DUP was in the ascendancy and when devolution was restored in March 2007 the DUP and Sinn Fein were the largest parties, the two hardline parties in NI. This power sharing Executive collapsed in early 2017 after Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness resigned as a result of the DUP's handling of the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scandal massive overspend. There was a Stormont Assembly election in March 2017 where Sinn Fein did very well and the DUP just about managed to stay the biggest party in the assembly. There is still no government in NI at devolution level, but direct rule has not as yet been imposed from Westminster. The parties have until the end of June 2017 to reach agreement on this and there might be another Assembly election in the autumn again.
There are also some smaller unionist parties like the more hardline Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) (formed in 2007) and the more socialist-minded Progressive Unionist Party (PUP) (formed in 1979) but they have little representation in Stormont. The TUV has a sole MLA, Jim Allister, Party Leader, in North Antrim.
Hope that goes some way towards explaining the complexities of Ulster politics!
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Well it's official, Theresa May is staying on as pm, the DUP has given her their support. may also says Brexit will not be derailed, Tusk and Eu's brexit negotiator both say "Let's now just concentrate on a good deal for all"
It was either that.....or the priesthood
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
Well it's official, Theresa May is staying on as pm, the DUP has given her their support. may also says Brexit will not be derailed, Tusk and Eu's brexit negotiator both say "Let's now just concentrate on a good deal for all"
Yes, and at the very least, it has been achieved quickly and securely without the five days of negotiations it took after the last hung parliament the UK had after the 2010 General Election that resulted in the Conservative-Lib Dem Coalition Government of 2010-2015 headed by David Cameron and Nick Clegg. Admittedly though, that was a more complex electoral situation than that which we face today.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I didn't even know there were two of them. Can you explain the difference in small, easy words, please?
Well, the Ulster Unionist Party (UUP) is much older, with its origins from the Irish Unionist Party. It was formed out of the Ulster Unionist Council in 1905, opposed Home Rule and ruled Northern Ireland for over 50 years as the majority party between 1921 (when Northern Ireland was founded as a separate state after the partition of Ireland) and 1972, when the Stormont parliament was prorogued by the Edward Heath Conservative Government.
They again were the majority party at Stormont when devolution was returned to Northern Ireland under First Minister and UUP Leader David Trimble 1999-2002, and Seamus Mallon of the moderate nationalist SDLP after the Belfast or Good Friday Agreement of 1998.
Since then, its fortunes have dwindled, being the more moderate party within NI unionism. The Rev Dr Ian Paisley created the Protestant Unionist Party in 1970 to fight the 1970 General Election. He took North Antrim from the UUP and held it until he stood down in 2010. His son Ian Paisley Jnr then took over and still holds the seat today. The DUP was formed in 1971 out of the PUP that preceded it. From 2003 the DUP was in the ascendancy and when devolution was restored in March 2007 the DUP and Sinn Fein were the largest parties, the two hardline parties in NI. This power sharing Executive collapsed in early 2017 after Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness resigned as a result of the DUP's handling of the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scandal massive overspend. There was a Stormont Assembly election in March 2017 where Sinn Fein did very well and the DUP just about managed to stay the biggest party in the assembly. There is still no government in NI at devolution level, but direct rule has not as yet been imposed from Westminster. The parties have until the end of June 2017 to reach agreement on this and there might be another Assembly election in the autumn again.
There are also some smaller unionist parties like the more hardline Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) (formed in 2007) and the more socialist-minded Progressive Unionist Party (PUP) (formed in 1979) but they have little representation in Stormont. The TUV has a sole MLA, Jim Allister, Party Leader, in North Antrim.
Hope that goes some way towards explaining the complexities of Ulster politics!
I was surprised to find that the Tories won at least eight districts in Scotland. I thought they were wiped out of Scotland around the independence referendum? And Labour won only a couple of small districts there. Can Barbel or some other Scotsman explain?
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
I didn't even know there were two of them. Can you explain the difference in small, easy words, please?
Well, the Ulster Unionist Party (UUP) is much older, with its origins from the Irish Unionist Party. It was formed out of the Ulster Unionist Council in 1905, opposed Home Rule and ruled Northern Ireland for over 50 years as the majority party between 1921 (when Northern Ireland was founded as a separate state after the partition of Ireland) and 1972, when the Stormont parliament was prorogued by the Edward Heath Conservative Government.
They again were the majority party at Stormont when devolution was returned to Northern Ireland under First Minister and UUP Leader David Trimble 1999-2002, and Seamus Mallon of the moderate nationalist SDLP after the Belfast or Good Friday Agreement of 1998.
Since then, its fortunes have dwindled, being the more moderate party within NI unionism. The Rev Dr Ian Paisley created the Protestant Unionist Party in 1970 to fight the 1970 General Election. He took North Antrim from the UUP and held it until he stood down in 2010. His son Ian Paisley Jnr then took over and still holds the seat today. The DUP was formed in 1971 out of the PUP that preceded it. From 2003 the DUP was in the ascendancy and when devolution was restored in March 2007 the DUP and Sinn Fein were the largest parties, the two hardline parties in NI. This power sharing Executive collapsed in early 2017 after Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness resigned as a result of the DUP's handling of the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scandal massive overspend. There was a Stormont Assembly election in March 2017 where Sinn Fein did very well and the DUP just about managed to stay the biggest party in the assembly. There is still no government in NI at devolution level, but direct rule has not as yet been imposed from Westminster. The parties have until the end of June 2017 to reach agreement on this and there might be another Assembly election in the autumn again.
There are also some smaller unionist parties like the more hardline Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) (formed in 2007) and the more socialist-minded Progressive Unionist Party (PUP) (formed in 1979) but they have little representation in Stormont. The TUV has a sole MLA, Jim Allister, Party Leader, in North Antrim.
Hope that goes some way towards explaining the complexities of Ulster politics!
Thanks
If you need to know anything else, just ask and I'll try my best to answer for you.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
Thanks again. I'm relocating another drawing from the jokes thread because it's so good and it shows how I feel about the effect this election will have on the EU negotioations:
I think it's just that Labour mobilised the youth vote. That's it really.
Otherwise those who turned out for May might have got her her landslide victory. The numbers were there, they were just there for the other side too.
Also, many saw this as a golden chance to address the surprise victory for Cameron and co last time round, where voters deserted the Lib Dems in a huff only to gift the Tories a majority - and the Brexit referendum. It turned out to be a 'let's try this again shall we?' election.
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
Comments
I can see May being ousted for Johnson within weeks and another election in the Autumn. I can't imagine another hung parliament after another election it would either be a landslide either way and too tough to call at the moment.
The Conservative's need to pick themselves up, dust themselves down and come up with a manifesto that does not alienate their natural voters. Easier said than done but at least they know what they have to do now.
He was correspondent in Brussels 1989 - 1994 and certainly had deep insight.
If it was true what you and he says - he'd been Anti-EU for much longer than from 2015.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
but by far not enough.
You still don't like the system of solidarity - the rich pay for the poor ?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
That's part of the "The winner takes it all" voting system in the UK.
You'll have to win a voting district - the share of total votes does not count. Like in the US, this system breeds a 2-party system where the others are and remain almost irrelevent.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
I think it is now as clear as it has ever been (with the margins so slim in this election and BREXIT) that the UK is split down the middle. This campaign was built on one side on a personality (May) who has not shown Strong and Stable Leadership that she spoke about (saying it in no way makes it true - if that is what you say then you take every opportunity to demonstrate it publicly through joining debates, arguing and fighting your corner and your manifesto - that is strong leadership). To demonstrate it you have to live by your actions as they speak louder than words. Whoever was advising her on her campaign needs to go draw the Mess Webley and dispatch themselves to their maker forthwith.
On the other side was a perceived weaker candidate there for the slaughter, but who had party policies that resonated with a couple of key sections of society to increase their vote. The fact that the figures never stood up to scrutiny means little they sold the right story. In fact go back 10+ years and that same party had bankrupted the UK PLC with a huge financial deficit on departure (think parting letter ' I am afraid there is no money') - oh how the electorate has such short memories!
They are all as bad as each other fecking useless.
My concern is what we look like on the world stage - simple a country divided no wonder we lost an empire we cannot agree on anything anymore. Small light is maybe this will lead to more discussion or consensus on the key topics of BREXIT in the UK, which the government can then enact time will tell.
Until the leaders of our political parties wake up and realise Leadership is a a privilege not a right, to Lead the country you have to invest effort and work bl00dy hard at it not sit back - no one party will ever obtain a clear majority and win - Simple.
Thinking of starting my own party called simple ' The Common Sense Party'!!
Of course then there is always the alternative, May did not want BREXIT, but got the Leadership because frankly there was no one else. By holding an election and losing she no longer has to worry about a Hard BREXIT stance (not that I ever really believed her wacking a few BREXITiers in your government does not make it so). This is because the electorate has taken that away from her (you could say we created the perfect storm). Meaning obtaining the 'Best fit for both sides' option is much easier to achieve than a Hard BREXIT for UK only would ever have been in reality. Meaning we may just leave the EU in name only (and bring Farage back into politics to inject some humour once again) .
Time will tell, interesting times ahead.
Cheers :007)
I understand May has decided not to step down and instead lead a minority government - what a perfect way to enter the most important negotitions since the 70's!
I've heard praises for May being pro-Eu but serving her country and the voter's will.
That's one way to take it - opportunist politic approach of an order-receiver I say.
It's the parties and the politicians duty to outline a manifesto (has anyone heard about what May wanted to achieve in the Brexit negotiations?) and the voters chose what they prefer.
Adjusting your politics just to fill a gap that is let by the other party or 180 turns in order to run after certain voter decisions does not help with the confidence of the people in their politic elite.....
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
That speaks a lot - you don't kick at someone who's already on the floor
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Some where outstanding and some of them where really bad. I guess that May knows exactly what the Queen thinks about her
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Totally agree and in some ways while I am disappointed in May and her poor campaign and leadership (far from strong and stable but then I guess I have witness that for real on operations where true leaders are born), I have been pleasantly surprised by Corbyn and his campaign. This election came down to two things the Leaders character and their party manifesto and how that was delivered, one party got it the other was off the mark - the result mediocrity.
I am of course thankful things have not reached the point as they have across the pond. But and I do not think this applies just to the UK, I believe there is a ground swell of opinion in most countries that is turning against current governments and the political elite in some quarters. In some way as in the US the UK found itself choosing between the least worst candidate - how mad is that?
As for the PM meeting the Queen to form a new minority government I am sure she had one word - ****! (I bet there are moves for first past the line results for future elections though - that would have given May a majority win she sought).
Cheers :007)
"mess Wembley"
It seems May is planning a government together with the Ulster unionists. That's quite a step up from the Tories having a majority on their own.
Hey - where did all the British members go?
If only it was with the Ulster Unionists, old chap. I am a party member. Rather, it is with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).
Well, the Ulster Unionist Party (UUP) is much older, with its origins from the Irish Unionist Party. It was formed out of the Ulster Unionist Council in 1905, opposed Home Rule and ruled Northern Ireland for over 50 years as the majority party between 1921 (when Northern Ireland was founded as a separate state after the partition of Ireland) and 1972, when the Stormont parliament was prorogued by the Edward Heath Conservative Government.
They again were the majority party at Stormont when devolution was returned to Northern Ireland under First Minister and UUP Leader David Trimble 1999-2002, and Seamus Mallon of the moderate nationalist SDLP after the Belfast or Good Friday Agreement of 1998.
Since then, its fortunes have dwindled, being the more moderate party within NI unionism. The Rev Dr Ian Paisley created the Protestant Unionist Party in 1970 to fight the 1970 General Election. He took North Antrim from the UUP and held it until he stood down in 2010. His son Ian Paisley Jnr then took over and still holds the seat today. The DUP was formed in 1971 out of the PUP that preceded it. From 2003 the DUP was in the ascendancy and when devolution was restored in March 2007 the DUP and Sinn Fein were the largest parties, the two hardline parties in NI. This power sharing Executive collapsed in early 2017 after Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness resigned as a result of the DUP's handling of the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scandal massive overspend. There was a Stormont Assembly election in March 2017 where Sinn Fein did very well and the DUP just about managed to stay the biggest party in the assembly. There is still no government in NI at devolution level, but direct rule has not as yet been imposed from Westminster. The parties have until the end of June 2017 to reach agreement on this and there might be another Assembly election in the autumn again.
There are also some smaller unionist parties like the more hardline Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) (formed in 2007) and the more socialist-minded Progressive Unionist Party (PUP) (formed in 1979) but they have little representation in Stormont. The TUV has a sole MLA, Jim Allister, Party Leader, in North Antrim.
Hope that goes some way towards explaining the complexities of Ulster politics!
Yes, and at the very least, it has been achieved quickly and securely without the five days of negotiations it took after the last hung parliament the UK had after the 2010 General Election that resulted in the Conservative-Lib Dem Coalition Government of 2010-2015 headed by David Cameron and Nick Clegg. Admittedly though, that was a more complex electoral situation than that which we face today.
Thanks
If you need to know anything else, just ask and I'll try my best to answer for you.
Otherwise those who turned out for May might have got her her landslide victory. The numbers were there, they were just there for the other side too.
Also, many saw this as a golden chance to address the surprise victory for Cameron and co last time round, where voters deserted the Lib Dems in a huff only to gift the Tories a majority - and the Brexit referendum. It turned out to be a 'let's try this again shall we?' election.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Yes, and we may be getting yet another one of those again before the year is out!