I can already see the next stage of wussyfication of Bond coming in which a woman with supposedly equal abilities will appear just to spread feminist propaganda that women were equal which they are not !
Well that's certainly a point of view. You gonna be okay?
Feminist propaganda is already being injected into Bond films.
It started in Casino Royale.
Take the scene with Versper Lynd in the hotel room for example. Bond is about to dress up for the casino poker session.
He intends to put on his dinner jacket, then Versper gives him a dinner jacket that she brought with her saying: "There are dinner jackets and dinner jackets." basically saying that Bond doesn't know what a dinner jacket is all about and that he needs a women to teach him about dinner jackets.
And there are many more scenes like that in which feminist propaganda is being injected into this movie.
And the fact that some people here even demand a female counterpart of bond or vote for female directors in the poll for the director of Bond 25 shows how successful this propaganda (not only in bond films but in television and cinema in general) has worked.
The amount of feminist propaganda that is being inceted into movies, bond included, depends upon peoples ability to detect the propaganda or the degree to which the brainwashing has already worked and changed peoples minds.
Films are in part a reflection of society therefore considering that we are at a point when people ask for female directors or female counterparts to Bond everyone with common sense can imagine where the Bond series is heading.
Yes, women having opinions about dinner jacket is a central of part of feminist ideology )
Beat me to it ) ).
I think it started around GoldenEye, not Casino Royale.
Take M and Moneypenny's stance towards Bond or even how Onatopp crushes men when they are at their most vulnerable position.
Not sure about the last part but the sheer idea of having a female M is going to cause a stir in some people's martinis.
Personally?
So long as one does a fine job, has good dialogue, acts appropriately and would be true to the original character's ethos, race and sex don't really matter at that point.
Judi did a great job as M and the TND scenes with her shy away any doubts that you may have about a female M, as an example.
I don't have any desire to see a "female Bond counterpart" in the next entry (and no, this is not because I'm scared of the imaginary feminist propaganda monster ) ). I just think it would detract from the type of film I want Bond 25 to be: story-driven, less action, less stunts, less CGI, etc. For whatever reason, the Bond films with dynamic Bond-like female counterparts tend to have the most action and the weakest character development. I want less spectacle and more soul this time around.
IF they did somrthing like this...again, then it needs to be an unknown actress. As much as I love Die Another Day, Halle Berry was the worst part of it.
1, GE 2, CR 3, SF 4, TWINE 5, Spectre 6, TMWTGG 7, DAD 8, LALD 9, AVTAK 10, LTK 11, Octopussy 12, Moonraker 13, TLD 14, GF 15, QOS 16, Tomorrow 17, FYEO 18. TSWLM Not seen much: Dr. No, Russia, Thunderball, Twice, Majesty.
1: Brosnan 2: Craig 3: Moore 4: Dalton 5: Connery and 6: Lazenby
While it would be great to see a female 00-agent in a few scenes, Bond will be and must be the agent the movies are about. I'm tired of Bond actresses talking about being "Bond's equal" (they seem to all say it in interviews). I think the best women in Bond movies are Vesper and Tracy because they are interesting people in interesting cituations. They are strong in other ways than Bond is.
While it would be great to see a female 00-agent in a few scenes, Bond will be and must be the agent the movies are about. I'm tired of Bond actresses talking about being "Bond's equal" (they seem to all say it in interviews). I think the best women in Bond movies are Vesper and Tracy because they are interesting people in interesting cituations. They are strong in other ways than Bond is.
This is one of the reasons I liked Camille. She had her own mission with its own objectives and just happened to cross Bond's path. One of the things I liked about QoS is that their relationship grew from the plot and didn't feel forced. And at the end they were more like equals; she recognized what a damaged mess Bond was and wanted nothing to do with it. But she could sympathize. If there's going to be another female agent, her character is a great template IMO.
While it would be great to see a female 00-agent in a few scenes, Bond will be and must be the agent the movies are about. I'm tired of Bond actresses talking about being "Bond's equal" (they seem to all say it in interviews). I think the best women in Bond movies are Vesper and Tracy because they are interesting people in interesting cituations. They are strong in other ways than Bond is.
This is one of the reasons I liked Camille. She had her own mission with its own objectives and just happened to cross Bond's path. One of the things I liked about QoS is that their relationship grew from the plot and didn't feel forced. And at the end they were more like equals; she recognized what a damaged mess Bond was and wanted nothing to do with it. But she could sympathize. If there's going to be another female agent, her character is a great template IMO.
I can already see the next stage of wussyfication of Bond coming in which a woman with supposedly equal abilities will appear just to spread feminist propaganda that women were equal which they are not !
Well that's certainly a point of view. You gonna be okay?
Feminist propaganda is already being injected into Bond films.
It started in Casino Royale.
Take the scene with Versper Lynd in the hotel room for example. Bond is about to dress up for the casino poker session.
He intends to put on his dinner jacket, then Versper gives him a dinner jacket that she brought with her saying: "There are dinner jackets and dinner jackets." basically saying that Bond doesn't know what a dinner jacket is all about and that he needs a women to teach him about dinner jackets.
And there are many more scenes like that in which feminist propaganda is being injected into this movie.
And the fact that some people here even demand a female counterpart of bond or vote for female directors in the poll for the director of Bond 25 shows how successful this propaganda (not only in bond films but in television and cinema in general) has worked.
The amount of feminist propaganda that is being inceted into movies, bond included, depends upon peoples ability to detect the propaganda or the degree to which the brainwashing has already worked and changed peoples minds.
Films are in part a reflection of society therefore considering that we are at a point when people ask for female directors or female counterparts to Bond everyone with common sense can imagine where the Bond series is heading.
What you call an injection of "feminist propaganda" I call being in favor of strong, well developed characters and talented, qualified directors. But I guess introducing vaginas into the equation changes everything ...
Yes, women having opinions about dinner jacket is a central of part of feminist ideology )
It seems you don't remember the scene correctly.
She doesn't just give her opinion. She makes him look like a fool who doesn't know how to dress appropriately.
Or he looks like a man secure enough to listen to a woman instead of talking about "feminist propaganda" because of a dinner jacket. Women who want to be treated with respect is no threath to a real man and feminism isn't an evil cult. It's just people who think women should be treated just as well as men. A few of them have gone too far, but that can be said of any political idea.
I am not sure if you understand feminists and feminism. It is the idea that women are people and should be treated as such. Simple as that. Dinner jackets have nothing to do with it.
the Bond filmmakers are not idealogues trying to change the minds of the audience. Like Hollywood they are in the business of maximising ticket sales, so as to return on investment, turn a profit and keep everybody employed long enough to hopefully make yet another movie. Thus they play it safe. If they are including strong female characters in the films, the reason is because that is what the market demands.
The only social engineering I see at all in the Bondfilms is the conspicuous product placements. Maybe you should save your outrage for BMW or whoever that watch company is?
It seems you don't remember the scene correctly.
She doesn't just give her opinion. She makes him look like a fool who doesn't know how to dress appropriately.
you don't remember the movie correctly. CraigBond at the start of his career is not yet the smooth cultured sophisticato who could talk knowledgeably about wine vintages and identify a womans perfume, as ConneryBond could in Dr No. He is a bit of a brute, capable of the violence needed for the "blunt instrument" aspect of his job but not yet capable of the civilized demeanor needed for the spy aspect of his job. When he puts on that dinner jacket is a major turning point, showing us (and himself) that the out-of-control thug we've followed for the first half of the movie has taken his first step to becoming the Bond character we all know. Hence the music when he looks in the mirror.
feminist propaganda that women were equal which they are not !
perhaps you could expand on this point. Just so nobody thinks there is a conspiracy against free speech, why don't you take this chance to spell out what you really mean
I can also remind you that the "horror" of strong women didn't start in CR, it started in Dr No. Honey Ryder revealed how she killed a man who raped her. It's from Fleming. :007)
@Number24 the first time I saw Dr No I was seriously struck mute. You never hear or see a female take control (I am not sure if that is the right word) like that. That is not even something you see now in movies or books. And that was the 1962! I think Ian Fleming was pretty darn feminist. Sure some things are a problematic but he was progressive in many ways for his time and even compared to some men now.
perhaps you could expand on this point. Just so nobody thinks there is a conspiracy against free speech, why don't you take this chance to spell out what you really mean
@Number24 the first time I saw Dr No I was seriously struck mute. You never hear or see a female take control (I am not sure if that is the right word) like that. That is not even something you see now in movies or books. And that was the 1962! I think Ian Fleming was pretty darn feminist. Sure some things are a problematic but he was progressive in many ways for his time and even compared to some men now.
Hey hey, let's not say things we can't take back here... )
sorry, sorry all, its just I never even noticed what watch Bond wore until I realised there's AJB007 threads on this topic of epic proportions
which reminds me, I have often thought, if there is a political/philosophical agenda to the Bond films, it is this: he is not saving the world for Democracy, or for Britain, or even "Freedom", but for Consumerism
think how often we see Bond and M scoff at the naivete of elected cabinet ministers, our heroes don't care about the will of the people
but all those meals at restaurants, clothes, fancy cars, expensive hotels, the ostentatious display of which takes up such a proportion of the movie, that is a cause worth fighting world-conquering megalomaniacs for
not even Capitalism, because wealthy industrialists are more often than not the villains, but the right to Consume fine luxury goods ... that is Bond's great cause
Hey hey, let's not say things we can't take back here... )
sorry, sorry all, its just I never even noticed what watch Bond wore until I realised there's AJB007 threads on this topic of epic proportions
which reminds me, I have often thought, if there is a political/philosophical agenda to the Bond films, it is this: he is not saving the world for Democracy, or for Britain, or even "Freedom", but for Consumerism
think how often we see Bond and M scoff at the naivete of elected cabinet ministers, our heroes don't care about the will of the people
but all those meals at restaurants, clothes, fancy cars, expensive hotels, the ostentatious display of which takes up such a proportion of the movie, that is a cause worth fighting world-conquering megalomaniacs for
not even Capitalism, because wealthy industrialists are more often than not the villains, but the right to Consume fine luxury goods ... that is Bond's great cause
I can't deny consumerism is a part of the Bond universe from the start. This can in part be explained by the fact that the books started at a time when rationing was still in effect. But is that all Bond is about?
I think the producers really want to carry on the legacy of Fleming and are proud of this tradition. I think most Bond fans agree that this hasn't been successful all the times but disagree on when and how.
Most of all they want to entertain, and they have entertained millions. You're too central - Don't think EON sits around all the time and plot how to get people to spend more on consumer goods.
This can in part be explained by the fact that the books started at a time when rationing was still in effect.
good observation, I never thought of this before and I just finished reading Fleming's biography too
I joke, slightly, so as to change the topic away from the alleged feminist conspiracy.
Ostentatious consumerism may not be the secret agenda of the Bond-films, but it is part of the fantasy, along with world travel and casual sex with beautiful women ... which almost brings us back to the proper topic.
Actually, back to the "conspiracy": Barbara Brocolli is a woman, obviously, and became involved I think at the same point Judi Dench called Pierce Brosnan "a sexist, misogynist dinosaur relic of the Cold War", or however that quote went. Has anybody ever asked Barbara if she is trying to do the movies with a feminist slant?
I think the approach to female characters that we've seen in the Craig era (mostly) gets it right. Less on the nose than in the Brosnan films, and ultimately more satisfying. And yes, I think Barbara Broccoli's influence has a lot to do with this. I don't see anything wrong with that. I like the philosophy of letting Bond be Bond and then watching how others react to him.
Comments
It started in Casino Royale.
Take the scene with Versper Lynd in the hotel room for example. Bond is about to dress up for the casino poker session.
He intends to put on his dinner jacket, then Versper gives him a dinner jacket that she brought with her saying: "There are dinner jackets and dinner jackets." basically saying that Bond doesn't know what a dinner jacket is all about and that he needs a women to teach him about dinner jackets.
And there are many more scenes like that in which feminist propaganda is being injected into this movie.
And the fact that some people here even demand a female counterpart of bond or vote for female directors in the poll for the director of Bond 25 shows how successful this propaganda (not only in bond films but in television and cinema in general) has worked.
The amount of feminist propaganda that is being inceted into movies, bond included, depends upon peoples ability to detect the propaganda or the degree to which the brainwashing has already worked and changed peoples minds.
Films are in part a reflection of society therefore considering that we are at a point when people ask for female directors or female counterparts to Bond everyone with common sense can imagine where the Bond series is heading.
I think it started around GoldenEye, not Casino Royale.
Take M and Moneypenny's stance towards Bond or even how Onatopp crushes men when they are at their most vulnerable position.
Not sure about the last part but the sheer idea of having a female M is going to cause a stir in some people's martinis.
Personally?
So long as one does a fine job, has good dialogue, acts appropriately and would be true to the original character's ethos, race and sex don't really matter at that point.
Judi did a great job as M and the TND scenes with her shy away any doubts that you may have about a female M, as an example.
1: Brosnan 2: Craig 3: Moore 4: Dalton 5: Connery and 6: Lazenby
This is one of the reasons I liked Camille. She had her own mission with its own objectives and just happened to cross Bond's path. One of the things I liked about QoS is that their relationship grew from the plot and didn't feel forced. And at the end they were more like equals; she recognized what a damaged mess Bond was and wanted nothing to do with it. But she could sympathize. If there's going to be another female agent, her character is a great template IMO.
My favorite Bond movie ever is GOLDENEYE and I think is because 006 was the main villain.
-{
What you call an injection of "feminist propaganda" I call being in favor of strong, well developed characters and talented, qualified directors. But I guess introducing vaginas into the equation changes everything ...
She doesn't just give her opinion. She makes him look like a fool who doesn't know how to dress appropriately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPNPXym2_Sg
The only social engineering I see at all in the Bondfilms is the conspicuous product placements. Maybe you should save your outrage for BMW or whoever that watch company is? you don't remember the movie correctly. CraigBond at the start of his career is not yet the smooth cultured sophisticato who could talk knowledgeably about wine vintages and identify a womans perfume, as ConneryBond could in Dr No. He is a bit of a brute, capable of the violence needed for the "blunt instrument" aspect of his job but not yet capable of the civilized demeanor needed for the spy aspect of his job. When he puts on that dinner jacket is a major turning point, showing us (and himself) that the out-of-control thug we've followed for the first half of the movie has taken his first step to becoming the Bond character we all know. Hence the music when he looks in the mirror. perhaps you could expand on this point. Just so nobody thinks there is a conspiracy against free speech, why don't you take this chance to spell out what you really mean
Hey hey, let's not say things we can't take back here...
-{
which reminds me, I have often thought, if there is a political/philosophical agenda to the Bond films, it is this: he is not saving the world for Democracy, or for Britain, or even "Freedom", but for Consumerism
think how often we see Bond and M scoff at the naivete of elected cabinet ministers, our heroes don't care about the will of the people
but all those meals at restaurants, clothes, fancy cars, expensive hotels, the ostentatious display of which takes up such a proportion of the movie, that is a cause worth fighting world-conquering megalomaniacs for
not even Capitalism, because wealthy industrialists are more often than not the villains, but the right to Consume fine luxury goods ... that is Bond's great cause
I can't deny consumerism is a part of the Bond universe from the start. This can in part be explained by the fact that the books started at a time when rationing was still in effect. But is that all Bond is about?
I think the producers really want to carry on the legacy of Fleming and are proud of this tradition. I think most Bond fans agree that this hasn't been successful all the times but disagree on when and how.
Most of all they want to entertain, and they have entertained millions. You're too central - Don't think EON sits around all the time and plot how to get people to spend more on consumer goods.
I joke, slightly, so as to change the topic away from the alleged feminist conspiracy.
Ostentatious consumerism may not be the secret agenda of the Bond-films, but it is part of the fantasy, along with world travel and casual sex with beautiful women ... which almost brings us back to the proper topic.
Actually, back to the "conspiracy": Barbara Brocolli is a woman, obviously, and became involved I think at the same point Judi Dench called Pierce Brosnan "a sexist, misogynist dinosaur relic of the Cold War", or however that quote went. Has anybody ever asked Barbara if she is trying to do the movies with a feminist slant?
24, due to you I have had the theme from Dr. No stuck in my head.
eg
[Barbel] I left this bit: the word is "whether". Daniel Bond, please post on topic or not at all.
Simply different abilities and skills. -{
Twitter: @mybudgetbond1