Fleming's "consumerism" is related to his attempts to create a realistic world in which fantastic things sometimes happened. It was vital that Bond stay grounded in reality, so we get the kind of cigarettes he smokes, the kind of food he likes, the car he drives, the watch he wears, the kind of cotton his shirts are made out of, etc. This detailed description is one of the things Fleming did really well, although sometimes he went a little overboard (I just finished reading DAF and he gives us one of the bad guy's shoe size).
Mods, can you please extinguish this dumpster fire?
It's a little...scented for our palette.
Back to the topic in hand, I think that it had been worn to death in many previous movies.
So long as it's done in a tasteful manner, I can't be against it.
There were some truly remarkable Bond girls that emerged throughout the years.
Holly and Pam were very good.
Camille is the undisputed winner in my book as her personal interests merely clash with Bond's.
It is a shame that she wasn't expanded and fleshed out to her fullest potential.
I just stated facts.
Facts can't be provocative by nature. They can only be true or false.
If your world view is being challenged by those facts and you can't disprove them then you have to change it. At least that's what intelligent people do.
Trying to undermine my credibility by pointing out spelling errors doesn't change anything because I didn't come up with those facts. I just stated them.
By the way English is not my first language.
If you think the discussion has gone off topic why can't you simply ask me to get back on topic instead of calling me names? At least that's what civilised people do.
By the way, several people requested that I support my claim with evidence and that's all I did.
you don't remember the movie correctly. CraigBond at the start of his career is not yet the smooth cultured sophisticato who could talk knowledgeably about wine vintages and identify a womans perfume, as ConneryBond could in Dr No. He is a bit of a brute, capable of the violence needed for the "blunt instrument" aspect of his job but not yet capable of the civilized demeanor needed for the spy aspect of his job. When he puts on that dinner jacket is a major turning point, showing us (and himself) that the out-of-control thug we've followed for the first half of the movie has taken his first step to becoming the Bond character we all know. Hence the music when he looks in the mirror.
If you think the discussion has gone off topic why can't you simply ask me to get back on topic instead of calling me names? At least that's what civilised people do.
I'll clarify one thing: I didn't call you a dumpster fire; I called your comment a dumpster fire. That is why I used the pronoun "it".
Fleming's "consumerism" is related to his attempts to create a realistic world in which fantastic things sometimes happened. It was vital that Bond stay grounded in reality, so we get the kind of cigarettes he smokes, the kind of food he likes, the car he drives, the watch he wears, the kind of cotton his shirts are made out of, etc. This detailed description is one of the things Fleming did really well, although sometimes he went a little overboard (I just finished reading DAF and he gives us one of the bad guy's shoe size).
Fleming's Bond realised, somewhat depressingly, that he'd most likely be dead by 40. So he wanted to live life to the fullest, Which some may mistake as consumerism. However he noted and despised ostentation, for instance noting gold moneyclips (apologies I can't remember which novel this appears in). His clothes are sparsely described, with few brands except Rolex, Gillette, Saxone and a handful of others; although he had a series of Bentleys, there were one of his few passions. It's the films which have increasingly associated Bond himself with luxury brands and rampant consumerism as we know it today.
Ahem back on topic, I'm all in favour of a strong female counterpart, though not necessarily an agent; Vesper, Camille and Madeleine Swann are all accomplished, interesting counterparts.
I think it's time for another female agent to meet up with Bond again. We haven't had one since Jinx, and I think it's time for another one to fix the problem with the last one.
...I'm all in favour of a strong female counterpart, though not necessarily an agent; Vesper, Camille and Madeleine Swann are all accomplished, interesting counterparts.
I was just thinking about Swann in this sense
we've had several female agents over the years, from Anya Amasova through Jinx
and we've had a few amateur adventurers, usually on missions of revenge, like Melina Havelock or Camille
I think Swann has potential as the latter. She is the daughter of one of CraigBonds greatest foes, and tells him she learned as a child how to shoot guns and defend herself. she just chooses not to be part of that world anymore. Yet when Bond is losing the fight to Hinx in the train, it is Swann who shows up with the gun she'd said she wouldn't use and saves Bonds life. So the character has the background needed to fight by his side if the situation demands.
We are all assuming she will die at the beginning of the next film, like Tracy. Maybe there's more interesting exciting things that could be done with her character?
No returning, no looking backwards for me. Camille was interesting but would not want to see her as a major component A cameo where Bond crosses her path might be good. I just have a horror of a lazy back story piece...
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I agree. Camille might be mentioned or even be seen in a short scene, but I have no wish to see her in a major role in a Bond movie again. I've got nothing against her, but neither do I see her as more special than other Bond Girls.
Ah, but she is unique among the Bond Girls.... (the main ones, anyway)- our James didn't consummate his relationship with her in the traditional manner!
It could lead to a very interesting scene, with Bond
Infiltrating an Enemy organisation. Only to find Camille
Is being interrogate in front of him.
Leading to many possibilities ?
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
With Camille, I agree that if she returns, the amount of screen time should be limited. But I really like the idea of Bond connecting again with characters from past adventures, as long as it works in the context of the plot. I thought the amount of screen time given to Felix (and the role he played in the plot) in QoS was pretty much spot on. And I also really enjoyed having Mathis back in that film (I wish they hadn't killed that character).
On the other hand, M, Q and Moneypenny all had far too much screen time in Spectre, IMO. I understand Eon has some amazing talent playing those parts, but I feel like the script shoehorned in the whole 9 Eyes plot just to give them opportunities to "act".
So, ideally for me, M, Q and Moneypenny would be kept at the start and end of the mission. Felix and Camille return in 5 to 10 minute cameos to give Bond intel or assistance necessary for his mission. Something like Felix's role in TLD would work for me. And the new female lead, whatever her job, is as well written as Vesper. Then give her and Bond enough screen time together to create an interesting and dynamic relationship. #wishlist
I keep going back and forth about whether I'd like to see Camille in B25. On one hand, Camille is a very underrated Bond girl and I thought her character was a real highlight of QoS. On the other, I fear that her reappearance would feel forced if not written in a very specific way. So I'm still on the fence.
Comments
With pleasure, canoe2. With pleasure.
Thank you for taking care of that.
Back to the topic in hand, I think that it had been worn to death in many previous movies.
So long as it's done in a tasteful manner, I can't be against it.
There were some truly remarkable Bond girls that emerged throughout the years.
Holly and Pam were very good.
Camille is the undisputed winner in my book as her personal interests merely clash with Bond's.
It is a shame that she wasn't expanded and fleshed out to her fullest potential.
Twitter: @mybudgetbond1
Facts can't be provocative by nature. They can only be true or false.
If your world view is being challenged by those facts and you can't disprove them then you have to change it. At least that's what intelligent people do.
Trying to undermine my credibility by pointing out spelling errors doesn't change anything because I didn't come up with those facts. I just stated them.
By the way English is not my first language.
If you think the discussion has gone off topic why can't you simply ask me to get back on topic instead of calling me names? At least that's what civilised people do.
By the way, several people requested that I support my claim with evidence and that's all I did.
Please get back on topic...and let's stay there -{
Are the Mods a little proud of me too? B-)
Of course we are!
No, just pointing out irony.
I'll clarify one thing: I didn't call you a dumpster fire; I called your comment a dumpster fire. That is why I used the pronoun "it".
Apologies for the off-topic post, everyone.
Camille returning works for me.
Fleming's Bond realised, somewhat depressingly, that he'd most likely be dead by 40. So he wanted to live life to the fullest, Which some may mistake as consumerism. However he noted and despised ostentation, for instance noting gold moneyclips (apologies I can't remember which novel this appears in). His clothes are sparsely described, with few brands except Rolex, Gillette, Saxone and a handful of others; although he had a series of Bentleys, there were one of his few passions. It's the films which have increasingly associated Bond himself with luxury brands and rampant consumerism as we know it today.
Ahem back on topic, I'm all in favour of a strong female counterpart, though not necessarily an agent; Vesper, Camille and Madeleine Swann are all accomplished, interesting counterparts.
we've had several female agents over the years, from Anya Amasova through Jinx
and we've had a few amateur adventurers, usually on missions of revenge, like Melina Havelock or Camille
I think Swann has potential as the latter. She is the daughter of one of CraigBonds greatest foes, and tells him she learned as a child how to shoot guns and defend herself. she just chooses not to be part of that world anymore. Yet when Bond is losing the fight to Hinx in the train, it is Swann who shows up with the gun she'd said she wouldn't use and saves Bonds life. So the character has the background needed to fight by his side if the situation demands.
We are all assuming she will die at the beginning of the next film, like Tracy. Maybe there's more interesting exciting things that could be done with her character?
As far as I'm concerned, it isn't a far-out scenario and one that I'd be interested in seeing.
No returning, no looking backwards for me. Camille was interesting but would not want to see her as a major component A cameo where Bond crosses her path might be good. I just have a horror of a lazy back story piece...
Infiltrating an Enemy organisation. Only to find Camille
Is being interrogate in front of him.
Leading to many possibilities ?
On the other hand, M, Q and Moneypenny all had far too much screen time in Spectre, IMO. I understand Eon has some amazing talent playing those parts, but I feel like the script shoehorned in the whole 9 Eyes plot just to give them opportunities to "act".
So, ideally for me, M, Q and Moneypenny would be kept at the start and end of the mission. Felix and Camille return in 5 to 10 minute cameos to give Bond intel or assistance necessary for his mission. Something like Felix's role in TLD would work for me. And the new female lead, whatever her job, is as well written as Vesper. Then give her and Bond enough screen time together to create an interesting and dynamic relationship. #wishlist
I keep going back and forth about whether I'd like to see Camille in B25. On one hand, Camille is a very underrated Bond girl and I thought her character was a real highlight of QoS. On the other, I fear that her reappearance would feel forced if not written in a very specific way. So I'm still on the fence.
Felix, however, is a must for me.
Why does everyone hate Jinx so much? I thought she was one of the better counterparts.
-Mr Arlington Beech
https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-World-is-not-Enough/images/The-World-is-not-Enough-0208.jpg