These guys should be arrested at the airports or ports, their passports seized and taken immediately to a military run secure unit. And before the bleeding hearts start droning on about guantanamo bay or human rights, I'm not suggesting any form of torture, the results of which are notoriously unreliable. We know who these people are, but our legal system is impotent to deal with them.
Working through the rest of the 3000 strong list should become a priority, where such compelling intelligence exists a panel of 5 specialist judges can decide if a lethal force warrant is justified. This will not cause a mass joining of ISIS or a religious war as everyone is being protected including Muslims who live peacefully and abide the law, Bombs are not selective, they kill all in their path.
Further afield there should be an international team, who work together specifically to deal with the global terrorist threat, sharing intelligence and made up by multinationals possibly from nato members? .
So basically you want Guantanamo in the UK?
It sounds tempting but GWB and Obama may tell you that their experiences with that path have not been good.
Imo the fact that Guantanamo existed, fuelled the conflict and brought many additional fighters for ISIS.
In a word no, as I said. Guantanamo is infamous for the practices that happened there more than as a holding facility for terrorists.
Simple fact is & it pains me greatly to say this - but we are in a war in our own country. It comes to something if the SAS are having to land on London Bridge on a saturday night as a result of these Islamic terrorists.
There are many, many factors at play regarding this, but the general level of silence from Islamic 'powers-that-be' within the UK is deafening.
Regardless of your political allegiances here in the UK, the mere fact that the PM of the country announced that 'enough is enough' was very telling for me. In what shape things will change remains to be seen, but I truly believe that something will give here before long.
If you get chance, have a look on twitter or Youtube for a former SAS operative called Phil Campion. His thoughts pretty much sums up what the majority are feeling now. You can not negotiate with these people & it ain't a tickling contest.
No, one can't negotiate with people like ISIS. But there are at least two dangers we must avoid in this fight:
1) Don't alienate the muslim minority. Most of the muslims in Europe are moderate and non-violent.
2) Don't turn into what you fight. Slightly more than 500 people have been killed by terrorists in Europe since 2015. That's tragic and very serious, but it's not worth giving up the values that makes the West strong and great. If we give up our values in this fight we lose this war no matter who is left standing.
I am unfamiliar with the UK traditions, but do our UK agents think, that Bobbys will soon be armed?
Sounds like a logic consequence to what happened in the last weeks.
No, there will probably be further armouring of ctsfo's and more armed officers present on the streets of major cities, but standard UK policing does not require all officers to be armed. The police should remain supported by special forces who will have teams on a forward operation basis I should think. The fact that the sas were airborne and on the scene in London last weekend so quickly proves this in my mind. In London they will be using a London barracks as a forward operating base. I would think the territorial sas are on similar footings around the country or have at least been briefed along these lines, because as London becomes more protected soft target options such as Leeds, Birmingham, Manchester or even smaller places such as York will become more viable for a successful attack.
I would also say that there is momentum now and so I'd expect more attacks in the UK as with every attack there is more chatter and it's harder to determine what's actually going on.
No, one can't negotiate with people like ISIS. But there are at least two dangers we must avoid in this fight:
1) Don't alienate the muslim minority. Most of the muslims in Europe are moderate and non-violent.
2) Don't turn into what you fight. Slightly more than 500 people have been killed by terrorists in Europe since 2015. That's tragic and very serious, but it's not worth giving up the values that makes the West strong and great. If we give up our values in this fight we lose this war no matter who is left standing.
Both your points are completely correct. But the law abiding Muslims that embrace our western culture and peacefully worship their religion also need protecting against terrorism. Also I don't believe that by fighting terrorism you can become a terrorist? Will those opposed to the barbaric practises of ISIS suddenly start beheading, raping, torturing and murdering everyone with opposing views?
Tolerance is wonderful thing and here in the West we have tolerant and welcoming values ( most of us anyway, but let's leave the fascists and racists out of this), but by being over tolerant we have seen our own culture eroded and diluted, in many parts of the UK the largest buildings of worship you will find are Mosques and in a lot of cases no opposition was lodged to this buildings being built. But as has been the case very old established pubs or butchers shops find relicensing opposed by the mosques because their nature offends Muslims. Tolerance goes both ways or should but it doesn't, we have practising sharia courts though they are illegal, honour killings, female genital mutilation, mass organised sexual crimes against white British girls, tax evasion, I could go on but you get the picture. This atmosphere of segregation helps spawn radicalism and general disharmony among the populous so I also agree because I know that the larger British Muslim community has a huge role to play in combating the jihadists and are they do turn a blind eye which should not be acceptable. And in the long run they will suffer as tolerance will turn to intolerance.
Or perhaps the number of attacks will drop of after the election? Perhaps ISIS thought terrorism will get extra attention before the lection or possibly it's unrelated. Who knows?
We've been foiling dozens of plots that were planned to happen at no significant political time, ISIS is being roundly defeated in the middle east and they've called for action against civilians.
I agree there is a clear link between terrorism attacks in ISIS and their military losses in the Middle East. I guess it's a way to stay relevant. I heard today that ISIS are about to lose control of Raqqua, their "capital" in Syria
It's a good thing, of cource. We're seeing the last of ISIS as a military force. They will continue as a terrorist organisation, but the days of having a territory for training camps and having an "Islamic State" to use as a shining beacon in their propaganda are over.
One has to wonder if this is because of the backlash burying the terrorists would cause or due to disgust of what they did.
I think there is an element of both. What weighs the most probably varies from moisque to mosque, but hopefully it's mostly the latter.
Suicide is also a sin in islam, so that's probably an issue too.
Anyway, I think it's good news.
But hold on ....... 100 mosques in Manchester? I doubt there can be that many.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,749Chief of Staff
It's the only gesture really, Muslims need to distance themselves from terrorism, can you imagine the furore if a Manchester mosque did offer to bury him? In the UK there is just short of 2000 mosques.
It was either that.....or the priesthood
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
edited June 2017
The Catholic Church in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland buried plenty of IRA men and women in the past and I never remember any furore about that. Where's the difference really? Both terrorist muderers in my book.
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
I don't think it's just a gesture for all, even for most of them. I believe most muslims are horrified by the attack. But obviously it would be a PR disaster if one of them said yes, not to mention the vandalism that would follow.
I don't think it's just a gesture for all, even for most of them. I believe most muslims are horrified by the attack. But obviously it would be a PR disaster if one of them said yes, not to mention the vandalism that would follow.
Of course I totally agree that most will be horrified by the acts being done in the name of their religion and also on a human level as well. This stance is to be applauded.
According to Google Maps that's not far from Manchester. I hope his family and friends aren't affected by the horrors.
Manchester is about 12 miles away...I've been to many gigs at the Manchester Arena but on this occasion neither myself or any family members were there...
YNWA 97
Silhouette ManThe last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
I'd like no publicity for them or any terrorists, stick them in the ground with no fanfare. Or
Use as much of what's left as transplants for those who need it ?
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Comments
Sounds like a logic consequence to what happened in the last weeks.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
In a word no, as I said. Guantanamo is infamous for the practices that happened there more than as a holding facility for terrorists.
There are many, many factors at play regarding this, but the general level of silence from Islamic 'powers-that-be' within the UK is deafening.
Regardless of your political allegiances here in the UK, the mere fact that the PM of the country announced that 'enough is enough' was very telling for me. In what shape things will change remains to be seen, but I truly believe that something will give here before long.
If you get chance, have a look on twitter or Youtube for a former SAS operative called Phil Campion. His thoughts pretty much sums up what the majority are feeling now. You can not negotiate with these people & it ain't a tickling contest.
1) Don't alienate the muslim minority. Most of the muslims in Europe are moderate and non-violent.
2) Don't turn into what you fight. Slightly more than 500 people have been killed by terrorists in Europe since 2015. That's tragic and very serious, but it's not worth giving up the values that makes the West strong and great. If we give up our values in this fight we lose this war no matter who is left standing.
I would also say that there is momentum now and so I'd expect more attacks in the UK as with every attack there is more chatter and it's harder to determine what's actually going on.
Both your points are completely correct. But the law abiding Muslims that embrace our western culture and peacefully worship their religion also need protecting against terrorism. Also I don't believe that by fighting terrorism you can become a terrorist? Will those opposed to the barbaric practises of ISIS suddenly start beheading, raping, torturing and murdering everyone with opposing views?
Tolerance is wonderful thing and here in the West we have tolerant and welcoming values ( most of us anyway, but let's leave the fascists and racists out of this), but by being over tolerant we have seen our own culture eroded and diluted, in many parts of the UK the largest buildings of worship you will find are Mosques and in a lot of cases no opposition was lodged to this buildings being built. But as has been the case very old established pubs or butchers shops find relicensing opposed by the mosques because their nature offends Muslims. Tolerance goes both ways or should but it doesn't, we have practising sharia courts though they are illegal, honour killings, female genital mutilation, mass organised sexual crimes against white British girls, tax evasion, I could go on but you get the picture. This atmosphere of segregation helps spawn radicalism and general disharmony among the populous so I also agree because I know that the larger British Muslim community has a huge role to play in combating the jihadists and are they do turn a blind eye which should not be acceptable. And in the long run they will suffer as tolerance will turn to intolerance.
100 Manchester mosques have refused to take
The bodies of the terrorists.
I think there is an element of both. What weighs the most probably varies from moisque to mosque, but hopefully it's mostly the latter.
Suicide is also a sin in islam, so that's probably an issue too.
Anyway, I think it's good news.
But hold on ....... 100 mosques in Manchester? I doubt there can be that many.
I heard one mosque refused the body of the Manchester bomber...and I don't think there are 100 mosques in Manchester...yet...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_the_United_Kingdom
I counted 36 mosques in the entire UK.
According to Google Maps that's not far from Manchester. I hope his family and friends aren't affected by the horrors.
There are 62 mosques in Greater Manchester...with more being built all the time...
You think correctly -{
Yes, they have to be buried somewhere at the end of the day. Perhaps it could be done in private?
Manchester is about 12 miles away...I've been to many gigs at the Manchester Arena but on this occasion neither myself or any family members were there...
I remember you saying you liked TMFB by John Gardner as he mentioned Bolton it it!
Use as much of what's left as transplants for those who need it ?