Your London firefighters have been fighting hard and valiantly...

Ammo08

Tall buildings, especially old ones, are a firefighters nightmare. This is a terrible tragedy, I just pray the numbers of dead and injured aren't as high as being reported.

Number24

I hear the fire alarm didn't go off, there are also reports that the plastic cover on the outside walls might have been higly flameable.
We know little so far. I'm always impressed by firefighters and I hope for the best.

Thunderpussy

A truly horrible event.

Chriscoop

There were 6 dead last I heard but this is expected to rise unfortunately. Terrible truly terrible

Dirty Punker

Terrible event. People (according to eyewitnesses) jumped out the building. Unprecedented fire, no alarm, no sprinklers...nothing.
Not a good year for England, from the looks of things .

Hardyboy

Thinking of my friends in England. . .

Number24

I can't help thinking the building would have been safer if the inhabitants were richer.

Lady Rose

Number24 wrote:

I hear the fire alarm didn't go off, there are also reports that the plastic cover on the outside walls might have been higly flameable.
We know little so far. I'm always impressed by firefighters and I hope for the best.

The cladding around the building is already getting a lot of mentions but we will have to wait and see ...


Our emergency services and communities have certainly been tested these past few weeks.

Chriscoop

Number24 wrote:

I can't help thinking the building would have been safer if the inhabitants were richer.

The building had a 10 million pound renovation only 3 years ago and according to the building company all current regulations were met. With it being a council owned building those regulations are very strict. Unfortunately as is often the case self closing fire doors are propped open fire extinguishers stolen.... I'm not even sure a sprinkler system would have helped. It's a tragedy but considering the amount of people in that building it's a miracle the dead don't number much more. We live in a culture where there always has to be blame as sad as it is accidents happen and people will suffer you simply can't legislate for being human.

Higgins

Here, every building over 21 meters (max fireladder) must have a non-burning facade.

Number24

Chriscoop wrote:

Number24 wrote:

I can't help thinking the building would have been safer if the inhabitants were richer.

The building had a 10 million pound renovation only 3 years ago and according to the building company all current regulations were met. With it being a council owned building those regulations are very strict. Unfortunately as is often the case self closing fire doors are propped open fire extinguishers stolen.... I'm not even sure a sprinkler system would have helped. It's a tragedy but considering the amount of people in that building it's a miracle the dead don't number much more. We live in a culture where there always has to be blame as sad as it is accidents happen and people will suffer you simply can't legislate for being human.

Time will tell. Perhaps you're right.

Lady Rose

Chriscoop wrote:

Number24 wrote:

I can't help thinking the building would have been safer if the inhabitants were richer.

The building had a 10 million pound renovation only 3 years ago and according to the building company all current regulations were met. With it being a council owned building those regulations are very strict. Unfortunately as is often the case self closing fire doors are propped open fire extinguishers stolen.... I'm not even sure a sprinkler system would have helped. It's a tragedy but considering the amount of people in that building it's a miracle the dead don't number much more. We live in a culture where there always has to be blame as sad as it is accidents happen and people will suffer you simply can't legislate for being human.

There is a lot of speculation about the cladding which I believe is the same stuff that has been banned in Dubai after several similar fires there.

The cladding was fitted to help with insulation. However there is a gap between the cladding and the original concrete facade to prevent moisture gathering and it is believed that this gap has acted as a chimney/wind tunnel and hence why the fire spread so quickly.

There have been fires in the block before the refurb but they have always been contained.

This is all purely speculation obviously but I will just add the the building company managed to remove all the details of the refurb from their web site in the early hours of the morning.

Chriscoop

Lady Rose wrote:

Chriscoop wrote:

Number24 wrote:

I can't help thinking the building would have been safer if the inhabitants were richer.

The building had a 10 million pound renovation only 3 years ago and according to the building company all current regulations were met. With it being a council owned building those regulations are very strict. Unfortunately as is often the case self closing fire doors are propped open fire extinguishers stolen.... I'm not even sure a sprinkler system would have helped. It's a tragedy but considering the amount of people in that building it's a miracle the dead don't number much more. We live in a culture where there always has to be blame as sad as it is accidents happen and people will suffer you simply can't legislate for being human.

There is a lot of speculation about the cladding which I believe is the same stuff that has been banned in Dubai after several similar fires there.

The cladding was fitted to help with insulation. However there is a gap between the cladding and the original concrete facade to prevent moisture gathering and it is believed that this gap has acted as a chimney/wind tunnel and hence why the fire spread so quickly.

There have been fires in the block before the refurb but they have always been contained.

This is all purely speculation obviously but I will just add the the building company managed to remove all the details of the refurb from their web site in the early hours of the morning.

That's smacks of distancing themselves from this! I'm not trying say the building or the regulations are foolproof,but you can only work to current regulations whether they are right or wrong.

Lady Rose

Chriscoop wrote:

That's smacks of distancing themselves from this! I'm not trying say the building or the regulations are foolproof,but you can only work to current regulations whether they are right or wrong.

I agree.

I'm pretty sure that they did work to current regulations but I heard someone on the news last night saying they were out of date and hadn't been looked at for 11 years or something ...

Non of which helps the poor people who have suffered but no doubt we will hear the ridiculous 'lessons will be learned' numerous times over the coming weeks. 8-)

Loeffelholz

A truly awful tragedy. I hope the right people face consequences.

The Red Kind

The more details that emerge the more heartbreaking this becomes..

Number24

One has to question the morality of buildings so tall the inhabitants can't be saved by firefighters.

Chriscoop

Apparently experts say if it had been built just 4 years before it would have collapsed! I'm having a hard time listening to news etc as everyone seems to be turning this human tragedy into a political issue! Which is absolutely ridiculous and undermining the tragic loss of lives.

chrisisall

Keeping the heroes & victims of this terrible event in my thoughts.

The Wicker Man

A number of years ago I lost my gran to a house fire. My heart goes out to all the families affected by this tragedy.

BondJasonBond006

This is such a tragedy. I will be in Kensington again in September for 10 days. It will feel strange.

By main concern is all the people who have survived and have lost all they own. I do hope the city will properly take care of them.

Napoleon Plural

I think it's political really. I assume Kensington and Chelsea council didn't want poor people in their borough, so didn't see the point of shelling out cash to refit the tower block, seeing as they'd want it pulled down in 10 or 20 years time and redone as nice luxury apartments for billionaires. Hence the refit was done on the cheap. Now it's all this.

Lady Rose

Napoleon Plural wrote:

I think it's political really. I assume Kensington and Chelsea council didn't want poor people in their borough, so didn't see the point of shelling out cash to refit the tower block, seeing as they'd want it pulled down in 10 or 20 years time and redone as nice luxury apartments for billionaires. Hence the refit was done on the cheap. Now it's all this.

It's become very political which is disgusting.It has become politically expedient for certain groups to capitalise on this tragic event.

All you read now is the cladding was put there to improve the aesthetics for the uber rich however, when the tragedy first occurred we were told that the cladding was put there to improve energy efficiency and heating .... 8-)