MR: Too much slapstick makes this a weak effort, along with many plot holes which even my 9 year old son pointed out to me. A moderate score from John Barry, it’s a pity he couldn’t ever regain the energy of his scores after DAF. Drax is a decent villain, though.
One thing I noticed was that British Airways had a huge advert in the movie but the producers used an Air France Concorde, very odd.
I think MR is one of Barry's best scores. The film itself has some decidedly dodgy moments but it remains a guilty pleasure. Some classic moments and lovely locations. Agree Drax is a great villain. Was good to have Jaws back and has some of the most beautiful women to appear in any Bond film! ;%
FYEO: My favourite Roger Moore entry. This is very nearly as good as the 60’s movies but too much comedy just spoils it somewhat. Roger is at his most comfortable as Bond, the plot is good, the music is great, the action is top notch. For me, Roger should have stopped here, it would have been a fine ending to his Bond career. My son really enjoyed this one too.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
Dr No. I was at work when it was on TV but decided to watch it on DVD.
I don't know if watching some of a film counts, and I know people will probably not like this, but I cannot sit through FRWL. I have seen it only once and consider it my personal worst Bond film of the older films. I also feel the same way about the book. I tried to watch on TV on Saturday night but only made it to where Bond meets Bay before I turned off.
Well put, CP. A fan (or any movie watcher) can like or dislike anything he wants to, but it's interesting if one can put into words what one likes or dislikes and discuss it.
That being said: you don't like FRWL, Joshua? Are you crazy!! )
I expected a contract to have been put out on me for admitting I do not like FRWL!
I find both the book and the film uninspiring. That is not to say that it does not have it's good points. I think I listened on audiobook before I watched the film (BTW I have seen it twice not once). To my mind the book was like Ian Fleming had somehow lost interest in Bond. I am sure I am the only one to think this way but that is my opinion. I found the book uninspiring, dull even.
I thought the film may be different, but it was close to the novel and while watching I found myself drifting off to think about other things. That the story could not hold my attention may say more about me, but again there was nothing really about the storyline that could redeem the film.
Good points: The fight with Grant on the train.
Bad points: Almost everything else (IMO).
I did not like Thunderball when I first watched it, but now (while it is not my favourite by any means) I enjoy it. Perhaps, my opinion of FRLW will also change over time.
Perhaps one good thing about Bond is that you can fall in and out of love with the various films at different times?
To my mind the book was like Ian Fleming had somehow lost interest in Bond. I am sure I am the only one to think this way but that is my opinion. I found the book uninspiring, dull even.
In fact Fleming was losing interest in his Bond series when he wrote From Russia, With Love. He expected to sell the film rights a lot earlier than he did and was getting frustrated. Which is why Bond seems to die on the last page. Fleming actually considered not continuing the series, and that could have been the death of Bond.
Also, Fleming had recently become friends with American detective writer Raymond Chandler, and Chandler encouraged Fleming to try harder to merge genre fiction with literary ambition. So From Russia, With Love is Fleming's most "literary" book since Casino Royale. The three volumes in between were more conventionally structured thrillers with chases and explosions and damsels in distress.
Also Fleming, the journalist, really got into exploring the internal details of SMERSH and Soviet Intelligence, that content takes up nearly half the book.
Over the next year, Fleming tried to sell a tv series about a different character called Commander Jamaica. When that didn't work out, he recycled what he had written for that as Dr No, and the seemingly dead James Bond got better in the first few chapters.
Perhaps one good thing about Bond is that you can fall in and out of love with the various films at different times?
Absolutely, and I find FRWL, like OHMSS, is one of the films that new Bond fans don't like at first, because it is so different, and usually only begin to appreciate once they've gotten a bit obsessed.
One reason I like our Pros & Cons threads is because they encourage me to think more about the bits I like or don't like within each individual film. Writing Pros & Cons notes after a viewing is a good exercise. I've learned to find lots of content I actually like in lesser loved films alike A View to a Kill or Die Another Day, or even Skyfall, by trying to form my thoughts in those Pros & Cons threads.
Fleming actually considered not continuing the series, and that could have been the death of Bond.
Also, Fleming had recently become friends with American detective writer Raymond Chandler, and Chandler encouraged Fleming to try harder to merge genre fiction with literary ambition.
Imaginary conversation-
Chandler: Another drink, Ian?
Fleming: But of course. Three measures of Gordon's, one of-
Chandler: Yes, I think we've all got the recipe by now. Ian, you must try harder to merge genre fiction with your literary ambition.
Fleming: I know, but it's all getting too much for me. In fact, I'm considering not continuing the series, and that could mean the death of Bond.
Chandler: Oh, don't do that my boy!
Fleming: What do you mean?
Chandler: I'd never kill off Philip Marlowe, I might need him again someday. In my next book, I'm going to marry him off!
Fleming: Hmmm.... marry him off...
Chandler: Yes, less of a big sleep and more of a long goodbye.
Fleming: Thanks, Ray, I'll keep that in mind for later.
Chandler: So, you won't kill him off then?
Fleming: I'll give it some thought. I'd never say never again.
Chandler: Be careful now...
To my mind the book was like Ian Fleming had somehow lost interest in Bond. I am sure I am the only one to think this way but that is my opinion. I found the book uninspiring, dull even.
In fact Fleming was losing interest in his Bond series when he wrote From Russia, With Love. He expected to sell the film rights a lot earlier than he did and was getting frustrated. Which is why Bond seems to die on the last page. Fleming actually considered not continuing the series, and that could have been the death of Bond.
Also, Fleming had recently become friends with American detective writer Raymond Chandler, and Chandler encouraged Fleming to try harder to merge genre fiction with literary ambition. So From Russia, With Love is Fleming's most "literary" book since Casino Royale. The three volumes in between were more conventionally structured thrillers with chases and explosions and damsels in distress.
Also Fleming, the journalist, really got into exploring the internal details of SMERSH and Soviet Intelligence, that content takes up nearly half the book.
Over the next year, Fleming tried to sell a tv series about a different character called Commander Jamaica. When that didn't work out, he recycled what he had written for that as Dr No, and the seemingly dead James Bond got better in the first few chapters.
Perhaps one good thing about Bond is that you can fall in and out of love with the various films at different times?
Absolutely, and I find FRWL, like OHMSS, is one of the films that new Bond fans don't like at first, because it is so different, and usually only begin to appreciate once they've gotten a bit obsessed.
One reason I like our Pros & Cons threads is because they encourage me to think more about the bits I like or don't like within each individual film. Writing Pros & Cons notes after a viewing is a good exercise. I've learned to find lots of content I actually like in lesser loved films alike A View to a Kill or Die Another Day, or even Skyfall, by trying to form my thoughts in those Pros & Cons threads.
Thank you for your comments.
I had heard somewhere that Bond was to be killed by Ian Fleming, but had not consciously linked it to with FRWL.
My poor command of the written English language is such that I am unable to properly express myself like many people do in these pages. That is the reason I tend not to make many comments on the subjects of the films and books and definitely cannot go into the detail that some people are able to.
I will never dismiss FRWL as I have learned that what I like or do not like about the films changes with time. For example I watched Spectre for only about the third time a few weeks ago. I had this down as one of the poorest of the films. While I still was not impressed by the story, I found myself warming to the film. It has a long way to go before I will say that I enjoy it, but at least I find my attitude changing for the better which must be positive thing.
OP and AVTAK: I wasn’t looking forward to seeing these as part of my Bond viewings with my son and to be honest I was pretty bored with them both. Sir Rog was patently too old and in AVTAK they didn’t even bother to try and disguise his stunt double. Berkoff was a big plus in OP, he chewed the scenery with his customary maniacal presence and some of the action was decent enough but the comedic bits were excruciatingly dire. Also having Maud Adams play a major part after being in TMWTGG was a poor decision, I am not a fan of multiple roles for actors who played important characters in previous adventures.
Walken was a decent villain in AVTAK but the rehash of GF scenes was boring.
Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.
OP and AVTAK: I wasn’t looking forward to seeing these as part of my Bond viewings with my son and to be honest I was pretty bored with them both. Sir Rog was patently too old and in AVTAK they didn’t even bother to try and disguise his stunt double. Berkoff was a big plus in OP, he chewed the scenery with his customary maniacal presence and some of the action was decent enough but the comedic bits were excruciatingly dire. Also having Maud Adams play a major part after being in TMWTGG was a poor decision, I am not a fan of multiple roles for actors who played important characters in previous adventures.
Walken was a decent villain in AVTAK but the rehash of GF scenes was boring.
OP is my favourite film ever I think Roger looked really good in it. And that Tarzan yell is given too much attention, in my view, as it's half a second in a two hour and eleven minute film.
AVTAK ... well, it's definitely in the lower reaches of the list. It's sunny and airy, very outdoors, which gives it an easy, feel-good vibe.
Well Bond's entry in the book is delayed and much of it is taken up with the machinations of Smersh in the first 50 pages which Fleming seems to find more interesting.
AJB member Lady Rose (I think) critiqued FRWL the film for not having 'the smirk factor' - the sense that Bond is being cocky and on top of things in one scene or two.
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Well Bond's entry in the book is delayed and much of it is taken up with the machinations of Smersh in the first 50 pages which Fleming seems to find more interesting.
AJB member Lady Rose (I think) critiqued FRWL the film for not having 'the smirk factor' - the sense that Bond is being cocky and on top of things in one scene or two.
Personally, I find the structural departure from previous Bond novels very engaging in the FRWL novel...and FRWL is my favourite Bond film of all time, with Daniela Bianchi checking the box for all-time favorite Bond girl (but taste is a very individual thing...which is why I *still* haven't worked up the nerve to show AVTAK to my girlfriend! {:) )...the fact that Bond seems to have everything under control in the FRWL film is what makes the climactic encounter between Bond and Grant work so well, in my opinion.
The last Bond movie I watched was TLD, about a week ago. Still a fun watch for me.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
It'd been over 3 years since I'd last seen it and in that time I'd read the book for the first time so I couldn't help but compare. I enjoyed the film more having read the book. I was amused at Bond's reaction when Q showed up " Oh no, not you!" ) How many times has Q provided Bond with a gadget that keeps him alive!
After I'd watched it, I read the comments in the live watch thread and enjoyed that too.
(But taste is a very individual thing...which is why I *still* haven't worked up the nerve to show AVTAK to my girlfriend! {:) )
Shouldn't have thought her good taste would be a factor under the circumstances...
Welcome back, Loeffs!
Now, the problematic Live and Let Die.. shown by ITV as it has a schedule hole to fill as Euro 2000 isn't going ahead, but at a time when we have the Black Lives Matter going ahead...
Watching this, I find the sexism and MeToo thing more of a problem here, because Moore really is a creep with Solitaire, leering over her and tricking her into losing her virginity to him. As a kid this mattered less mainly because I wasn't so aware of the, erm, ins and outs of sex and this film did bring about the Disneyfication of the Bond franchise, plus as someone said unlike Connery you never really believe Moore kills the baddies, and perhaps likewise you never really believe he shags the women either. Still, it's basically rape, still, look at the recent Met's SpyCops scandal and what can you say? It's State-sanctioned abuse.
Bond's 'seduction' of Rosie Carver also leaves much to be desired - she is basically so frightened and a rubbish secret agent that he gets to bed her anyway despite her resistance. Charming, though I suppose it's played for laughs.
Stuff I don't get. Who is leaving the Queen of Cups card for Bond? Why would they do that if Rosie is a double agent? Beats me.
I enjoy Yaphet Kotto's line reading, in particular 'and having set the example, I don't expect Miss Solitaire to be any less the lady...'
But as for the Black Lives thing... well. Interestingly, you don't see Bond actually kill any or many black people in this film. Often he is just waving a gun around and shooting willy nilly but not here. That helps, as the villains are mainly black of course. Rosie Carver gets it, but by her own side - or is it? 'She was about to confess' they say, I dunno. But anyway, Bond doesn't kill her. He doesn't conventionally shoot many or any black folk - there's the check jacketed speedboat guy with the petrol in his face. One or two get knocked out. Labs blow up but Bond makes sure everyone escapes beforehand by waving the alligators in. Mr Big's demise is so preposterous as to not really count. Tee Hee is defined by his metal arm and goes out the window but Baron Samedi seems to live on. So the film doesn't grate too much but the subtext of a white boy nicking the black guy's gal and making off with her, well, I guess it helps it's Moore doing it not Connery as again you can't really take it too seriously. Not that Connery was in great shape around that time anyway.
Of course, they have Strutter and Quarrel Jnr as the two black good guys for balance. I can't help notice that Bond's interaction with black women does seem traditionally leery and unfortunate - Rosie Carver, then Grace Jones (outrageously, it's suggested that it's the creaky old Moore who gets the rough end of the deal by going to bed with the lithe and athletic young black icon) then Jinx (the creepiest exchange in cinema history 'They come out to feast' though I suppose she gives as bad as she gets) and even Naomi Harris' Moneypenny is condescendingly told that being out in the field 'isn't for everyone' when all she was doing was following her crap boss's orders in 'taking the bloody shot', then later in Spectre she's told off for having a sleeping partner or lover by Bond, when it's not like they're an item.
Lamentable AVTAK on TV now. It was an
Embarrassment then and has aged poorly. Not quite the lowpoint for Roger as bad as it is its better than Octopussy
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Can't agree. It was nice to see LTK on a Blu Ray widescreen presentation on telly, but it's a B movie as described in the US press, it's lukewarm bathwater. Yes, the tanker climax is nicely thought out - and fought out ha ha - but Dalton makes an uneasy leading man, like Farmer Boldwood in Far From the Madding Crowd trying to take his wedding guests with him.
In contrast, AVTAK is a great bit of fun, great locations and plenty to engage with - Walken, Macnee, Grace Jones et al. Admittedly, compared to Knight and Day, the Tom Cruise film on telly last night, it would seem genius (though Cruise sort of almost carried it at the time.)
They have the order all wrong! AVTAK was on the day after and next Saturday ITV are showing GE followed by TLD on the Sunday! Still at least they are showing them. Spectre was on ITV2 last night too.
Golden Eye last night.
We've had all the Bond movies on tv this summer in chronological order, and after Rog'o and TIMMYY!!!! Pierce Brosnans first outing as Bond feels fresh and invigorated.... all the way until that gawd awful tank chase starts......
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
Comments
I think MR is one of Barry's best scores. The film itself has some decidedly dodgy moments but it remains a guilty pleasure. Some classic moments and lovely locations. Agree Drax is a great villain. Was good to have Jaws back and has some of the most beautiful women to appear in any Bond film! ;%
I don't know if watching some of a film counts, and I know people will probably not like this, but I cannot sit through FRWL. I have seen it only once and consider it my personal worst Bond film of the older films. I also feel the same way about the book. I tried to watch on TV on Saturday night but only made it to where Bond meets Bay before I turned off.
Do you know why you don't like From Russia, With Love?
I'd be interested in your critique
You're not alone, I got a good friend who's a BondFan, and he considers that film one long boring train ride.
That being said: you don't like FRWL, Joshua? Are you crazy!!
I find both the book and the film uninspiring. That is not to say that it does not have it's good points. I think I listened on audiobook before I watched the film (BTW I have seen it twice not once). To my mind the book was like Ian Fleming had somehow lost interest in Bond. I am sure I am the only one to think this way but that is my opinion. I found the book uninspiring, dull even.
I thought the film may be different, but it was close to the novel and while watching I found myself drifting off to think about other things. That the story could not hold my attention may say more about me, but again there was nothing really about the storyline that could redeem the film.
Good points: The fight with Grant on the train.
Bad points: Almost everything else (IMO).
I did not like Thunderball when I first watched it, but now (while it is not my favourite by any means) I enjoy it. Perhaps, my opinion of FRLW will also change over time.
Perhaps one good thing about Bond is that you can fall in and out of love with the various films at different times?
Also, Fleming had recently become friends with American detective writer Raymond Chandler, and Chandler encouraged Fleming to try harder to merge genre fiction with literary ambition. So From Russia, With Love is Fleming's most "literary" book since Casino Royale. The three volumes in between were more conventionally structured thrillers with chases and explosions and damsels in distress.
Also Fleming, the journalist, really got into exploring the internal details of SMERSH and Soviet Intelligence, that content takes up nearly half the book.
Over the next year, Fleming tried to sell a tv series about a different character called Commander Jamaica. When that didn't work out, he recycled what he had written for that as Dr No, and the seemingly dead James Bond got better in the first few chapters. Absolutely, and I find FRWL, like OHMSS, is one of the films that new Bond fans don't like at first, because it is so different, and usually only begin to appreciate once they've gotten a bit obsessed.
One reason I like our Pros & Cons threads is because they encourage me to think more about the bits I like or don't like within each individual film. Writing Pros & Cons notes after a viewing is a good exercise. I've learned to find lots of content I actually like in lesser loved films alike A View to a Kill or Die Another Day, or even Skyfall, by trying to form my thoughts in those Pros & Cons threads.
Imaginary conversation-
Chandler: Another drink, Ian?
Fleming: But of course. Three measures of Gordon's, one of-
Chandler: Yes, I think we've all got the recipe by now. Ian, you must try harder to merge genre fiction with your literary ambition.
Fleming: I know, but it's all getting too much for me. In fact, I'm considering not continuing the series, and that could mean the death of Bond.
Chandler: Oh, don't do that my boy!
Fleming: What do you mean?
Chandler: I'd never kill off Philip Marlowe, I might need him again someday. In my next book, I'm going to marry him off!
Fleming: Hmmm.... marry him off...
Chandler: Yes, less of a big sleep and more of a long goodbye.
Fleming: Thanks, Ray, I'll keep that in mind for later.
Chandler: So, you won't kill him off then?
Fleming: I'll give it some thought. I'd never say never again.
Chandler: Be careful now...
Thank you for your comments.
I had heard somewhere that Bond was to be killed by Ian Fleming, but had not consciously linked it to with FRWL.
My poor command of the written English language is such that I am unable to properly express myself like many people do in these pages. That is the reason I tend not to make many comments on the subjects of the films and books and definitely cannot go into the detail that some people are able to.
I will never dismiss FRWL as I have learned that what I like or do not like about the films changes with time. For example I watched Spectre for only about the third time a few weeks ago. I had this down as one of the poorest of the films. While I still was not impressed by the story, I found myself warming to the film. It has a long way to go before I will say that I enjoy it, but at least I find my attitude changing for the better which must be positive thing.
Much better than someone like me who can only speak one language.
My favourites change all the time. I think it depends on your mood when you're watching it.
I watched FRWL last week on the TV also. Spent most of it convincing my husband that Red Grant was the same actor who played Quint in 'Jaws'
I'm currently watching 'Thunderball'
Same here -{
https://sistraininggear.com
Walken was a decent villain in AVTAK but the rehash of GF scenes was boring.
OP is my favourite film ever
AVTAK ... well, it's definitely in the lower reaches of the list. It's sunny and airy, very outdoors, which gives it an easy, feel-good vibe.
AJB member Lady Rose (I think) critiqued FRWL the film for not having 'the smirk factor' - the sense that Bond is being cocky and on top of things in one scene or two.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Personally, I find the structural departure from previous Bond novels very engaging in the FRWL novel...and FRWL is my favourite Bond film of all time, with Daniela Bianchi checking the box for all-time favorite Bond girl (but taste is a very individual thing...which is why I *still* haven't worked up the nerve to show AVTAK to my girlfriend! {:) )...the fact that Bond seems to have everything under control in the FRWL film is what makes the climactic encounter between Bond and Grant work so well, in my opinion.
The last Bond movie I watched was TLD, about a week ago. Still a fun watch for me.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
It'd been over 3 years since I'd last seen it and in that time I'd read the book for the first time so I couldn't help but compare. I enjoyed the film more having read the book. I was amused at Bond's reaction when Q showed up " Oh no, not you!"
After I'd watched it, I read the comments in the live watch thread and enjoyed that too.
Shouldn't have thought her good taste would be a factor under the circumstances...
Welcome back, Loeffs!
Now, the problematic Live and Let Die.. shown by ITV as it has a schedule hole to fill as Euro 2000 isn't going ahead, but at a time when we have the Black Lives Matter going ahead...
Watching this, I find the sexism and MeToo thing more of a problem here, because Moore really is a creep with Solitaire, leering over her and tricking her into losing her virginity to him. As a kid this mattered less mainly because I wasn't so aware of the, erm, ins and outs of sex and this film did bring about the Disneyfication of the Bond franchise, plus as someone said unlike Connery you never really believe Moore kills the baddies, and perhaps likewise you never really believe he shags the women either. Still, it's basically rape, still, look at the recent Met's SpyCops scandal and what can you say? It's State-sanctioned abuse.
Bond's 'seduction' of Rosie Carver also leaves much to be desired - she is basically so frightened and a rubbish secret agent that he gets to bed her anyway despite her resistance. Charming, though I suppose it's played for laughs.
Stuff I don't get. Who is leaving the Queen of Cups card for Bond? Why would they do that if Rosie is a double agent? Beats me.
I enjoy Yaphet Kotto's line reading, in particular 'and having set the example, I don't expect Miss Solitaire to be any less the lady...'
But as for the Black Lives thing... well. Interestingly, you don't see Bond actually kill any or many black people in this film. Often he is just waving a gun around and shooting willy nilly but not here. That helps, as the villains are mainly black of course. Rosie Carver gets it, but by her own side - or is it? 'She was about to confess' they say, I dunno. But anyway, Bond doesn't kill her. He doesn't conventionally shoot many or any black folk - there's the check jacketed speedboat guy with the petrol in his face. One or two get knocked out. Labs blow up but Bond makes sure everyone escapes beforehand by waving the alligators in. Mr Big's demise is so preposterous as to not really count. Tee Hee is defined by his metal arm and goes out the window but Baron Samedi seems to live on. So the film doesn't grate too much but the subtext of a white boy nicking the black guy's gal and making off with her, well, I guess it helps it's Moore doing it not Connery as again you can't really take it too seriously. Not that Connery was in great shape around that time anyway.
Of course, they have Strutter and Quarrel Jnr as the two black good guys for balance. I can't help notice that Bond's interaction with black women does seem traditionally leery and unfortunate - Rosie Carver, then Grace Jones (outrageously, it's suggested that it's the creaky old Moore who gets the rough end of the deal by going to bed with the lithe and athletic young black icon) then Jinx (the creepiest exchange in cinema history 'They come out to feast' though I suppose she gives as bad as she gets) and even Naomi Harris' Moneypenny is condescendingly told that being out in the field 'isn't for everyone' when all she was doing was following her crap boss's orders in 'taking the bloody shot', then later in Spectre she's told off for having a sleeping partner or lover by Bond, when it's not like they're an item.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
It's a long time since I watched a Tim Dalton Bond.
'You earned it. You keep it, old buddy' is still one of my favourite lines.
Tim's getting a lot of love on Twitter ... I've waited 31 years for this!!
Embarrassment then and has aged poorly. Not quite the lowpoint for Roger as bad as it is its better than Octopussy
In contrast, AVTAK is a great bit of fun, great locations and plenty to engage with - Walken, Macnee, Grace Jones et al. Admittedly, compared to Knight and Day, the Tom Cruise film on telly last night, it would seem genius (though Cruise sort of almost carried it at the time.)
Roger Moore 1927-2017
They have the order all wrong! AVTAK was on the day after and next Saturday ITV are showing GE followed by TLD on the Sunday! Still at least they are showing them. Spectre was on ITV2 last night too.
We've had all the Bond movies on tv this summer in chronological order, and after Rog'o and TIMMYY!!!! Pierce Brosnans first outing as Bond feels fresh and invigorated.... all the way until that gawd awful tank chase starts......
-Mr Arlington Beech