And I thought that Dc's Bond was perfect for a mission, as much as I love his 4 I've always wanted that Bond adventure more and the tragic introspective story arcs less. Brosnan would have been perfect for the more personal stories imho.
In the modern thinking, there's no way to just allow Bond to be an agent, free of the personal baggage, and out to do the sort of escapist things the character is known for. That would require an especially strong and inventive script rather than the more shallow and formulaic fare the current Bond writing team is known for. Pity.
Hope it's not the case. I really want a Bond without the customary Tragic angst. Of course it needs to engage him and us emotionally but that should be possible without all that malarkey. I wonder why Bond just can't just be an agent, a flawed individual for sure but an agent on a mission nonetheless. Here's hoping that the lazy and obvious can be avoided or at least limited.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
Why make again a movie that's one of the best in the series?
Why let Craig lose the love of his life twice and see revenge twice instead of using new stories?
And I thought that Dc's Bond was perfect for a mission, as much as I love his 4 I've always wanted that Bond adventure more and the tragic introspective story arcs less. Brosnan would have been perfect for the more personal stories imho.
In the modern thinking, there's no way to just allow Bond to be an agent, free of the personal baggage, and out to do the sort of escapist things the character is known for. That would require an especially strong and inventive script rather than the more shallow and formulaic fare the current Bond writing team is known for. Pity.
It is a pity as when Dc debuted he was the blunt instrument, the physical action Bond, who after only 2 outings became the "old dog" tired and physically damaged bond and eventually the bond who's every personal grief was perpetrated by one man.
To go the ohmss route have Swann killed is just too much we've had that with Vesper, I hope to see an exciting actioneer with a witty script, some smart interplay between bond and M and some new and interesting locations.
I get the sense that the majority here wants to see precisely that. Let's hope it's so.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
And I thought that Dc's Bond was perfect for a mission, as much as I love his 4 I've always wanted that Bond adventure more and the tragic introspective story arcs less. Brosnan would have been perfect for the more personal stories imho.
In the modern thinking, there's no way to just allow Bond to be an agent, free of the personal baggage, and out to do the sort of escapist things the character is known for. That would require an especially strong and inventive script rather than the more shallow and formulaic fare the current Bond writing team is known for. Pity.
It is a pity as when Dc debuted he was the blunt instrument, the physical action Bond, who after only 2 outings became the "old dog" tired and physically damaged bond and eventually the bond who's every personal grief was perpetrated by one man.
To go the ohmss route have Swann killed is just too much we've had that with Vesper, I hope to see an exciting actioneer with a witty script, some smart interplay between bond and M and some new and interesting locations.
I second that. Another Bond's lady love is slain, goes out on revenge mission would be eye rolling and so frustrating. I really do not wish to see a remake of any Bond film let alone OHMSS, which is one of the best. Even using the same story beats as Blofeld killing his wife etc would be too much. I'm willing to bet though that Bond 25 will be just that. A continuation of the Spectre story arch and another its personal mission where Bond is rogue going after Blofeld because his bird has been knocked off. I feel at this point that a stand alone mission is not on the cards with Craig. I'm super nervous about Bond 25!
I agree that Bond 25 should have a more conventional mission element. However if they go with this supposed plan then Bond 25 could easily have Blofeld kill Madeleine in the PTS and go down the route of doing the sequel to OHMSS that DAF never really was.
Spectre fulfilled the narrative role of OHMSS in this post reboot continuity; the story where Bond, during his mission involving Blofeld, falls for a woman who (supposedly) understands his pain as she is the damaged daughter of a criminal and Bond turns his back on MI6 for her.
All the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order.
Where there's smoke.....it is possible that there could be some leaks regarding some plot points of the Bond 25 script.
Someone (in the media) who is not as Bond savvy could make the leap that Bond getting married and his wife being killed would be a remake of OHMSS.
I'm no expert on the Fleming novels by any stretch but logic would tell us that Bond 25 wouldn't be a remake of OHMSS. What would be more likely is a PTS similar to the end of OHMSS, where Madeleine like Tracy is murdered after wedding Bond. The smart move, IMO, is that the rest of the film is a faithfull adaptation of the YOLT novel, retitled "The Garden of Death". After the PTS, the film could pick up 2-3 years later.
Where there's smoke.....it is possible that there could be some leaks regarding some plot points of the Bond 25 script.
Someone (in the media) who is not as Bond savvy could make the leap that Bond getting married and his wife being killed would be a remake of OHMSS.
I'm no expert on the Fleming novels by any stretch but logic would tell us that Bond 25 wouldn't be a remake of OHMSS. What would be more likely is a PTS similar to the end of OHMSS, where Madeleine like Tracy is murdered after wedding Bond. The smart move, IMO, is that the rest of the film is a faithfull adaptation of the YOLT novel, retitled "The Garden of Death". After the PTS, the film could pick up 2-3 years later.
I agree with this. Since SP took many elements from OHMSS (but not as many as originally planned), the OHMSS "remake" was just done. I don't think they would do it again. I think I would like it if the next PTS had Bond and Madeleine marry, and Madeleine be killed off by someone working for Blofeld. And then we have another revenge story. Character-wise, a mission for Craig's Bond doesn't really make sense. At the age of 51, Bond would all of the sudden be interested in doing his job?
Where there's smoke.....it is possible that there could be some leaks regarding some plot points of the Bond 25 script.
Someone (in the media) who is not as Bond savvy could make the leap that Bond getting married and his wife being killed would be a remake of OHMSS.
I'm no expert on the Fleming novels by any stretch but logic would tell us that Bond 25 wouldn't be a remake of OHMSS. What would be more likely is a PTS similar to the end of OHMSS, where Madeleine like Tracy is murdered after wedding Bond. The smart move, IMO, is that the rest of the film is a faithfull adaptation of the YOLT novel, retitled "The Garden of Death". After the PTS, the film could pick up 2-3 years later.
I agree with this. Since SP took many elements from OHMSS (but not as many as originally planned), the OHMSS "remake" was just done. I don't think they would do it again. I think I would like it if the next PTS had Bond and Madeleine marry, and Madeleine be killed off by someone working for Blofeld. And then we have another revenge story. Character-wise, a mission for Craig's Bond doesn't really make sense. At the age of 51, Bond would all of the sudden be interested in doing his job?
You're right. I wanted a stand-alone-Bond-on-a-mission film, like many others here. But that would've only worked with a new Bond. At this point in Craig's Bond's narrative arc, that wouldn't make much sense. They might as well do what you say in the PTS and use Fleming's YOLT for the rest. With Fleming providing the backbone, maybe they can write a script that's compelling. It would at least be a real Bond story and would give us as fans something we've not seen adapted.
Not convinced Madeleine makes it into 25: the PTS could feature Bond in bed with a new bird, and we've moved on that simply. Blofeld, well there's a good chance he's back IMO, hard to keep a good (and unkilled) villain down. And as much as I would love a YOLT Bond film, they haven't set it up properly, as others have noted they've taken the OHMSS narrative bits and mixed them all around. Blofeld escaping and Bond having to go after him sounds fine to me, just as a mission (from Bond's POV, likely Blofeld has gone even more Silva on him, or however they want to go about it).
This new story rumor is exactly why I didn't want to see Daniel Craig continue as Bond and I welcomed the reboot. I recall there were posts about the On Her Majesty's Secret Service reboot back when Spectre was released. And although I do think we missed the opportunity for a true sequel to that movie as Diamonds are Forever is far from it. To see Daniel Craig do it would be something we've supposedly already seen in Quantum of Solace. Even though when I reviewed Quantum of Solace I pointed out that I think License to Kill is a better revenge movie.
Also, Daniel Craig's Bond would be a chump if somehow Madeline gets killed by some agent of Spectre or even Blofeld. After all Bond did have Blofeld down and passed on killing him. Bond has killed people for far less than what Blofeld did to Daniel Craig's Bond since they made Blofeld responsible for just about everything beginning with Casino Royale. Professor Dent did very little compared to Blofeld. Also, it would defeat Daniel Craig's first good Bond film ending in his series.
I don't want to see a Bond losing his memory story either from that Spectre torture scene. Honestly, with the people writing the movie, I have a hard time believing that Daniel Craig will really go out on a high note. Spectre wasn't perfect. But they really tried to tie everything together with that movie. It did come off as amateur hour at times but still it was finally a Bond movie with Daniel Craig. And one which I would go as far as saying would have been the best last movie for a Bond actor that we've seen.
Given that DC's Bond story arc started with him gaining 00 status and has followed him from there, wouldn't it be great if they finished the job now and actually killed him off (if this is Craig's last outing)?? Then they could start fresh with a '007 Reboot' with no baggage to the DC era.
I know, I know...it's never gonna happen! But with the recent trend for playing fast and loose with the life's of major characters in film and TV (GoT; Batman etc), I think there could be much to be gained from not having to follow the eternal rule that he must survive.
I mean, you don't need to be an operative to see the obvious. It's a young man's game.
In the YOLT book, Bond thinks he's been sent on another mission, and while in Japan he does a favour for Tanaka and it turns out its Blofeld behind it all.
B25 could start off with M giving Bond a mission and only in the final act of the film does he realise that Blofeld is behind it all and that he wants a showdown with him
“The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. "
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
Given that DC's Bond story arc started with him gaining 00 status and has followed him from there, wouldn't it be great if they finished the job now and actually killed him off (if this is Craig's last outing)?? Then they could start fresh with a '007 Reboot' with no baggage to the DC era.
I know, I know...it's never gonna happen! But with the recent trend for playing fast and loose with the life's of major characters in film and TV (GoT; Batman etc), I think there could be much to be gained from not having to follow the eternal rule that he must survive.
I mean, you don't need to be an operative to see the obvious. It's a young man's game.
Bond had a hard reboot in 2006, just eleven years ago. Every reboot before were soft ones. I see no need for an even harder reboot, especially just five movies after CR.
Im not enthusiastic about a hard reboot either, I also think that maybe with DC going out on a high I'm hoping that means less angst for Bond. I'm sure we'll get Blofeld back and hopefully the story will repair some of the issues of Spectre. With Bond we can always suspend disbelief.
In the YOLT book, Bond thinks he's been sent on another mission, and while in Japan he does a favour for Tanaka and it turns out its Blofeld behind it all.
B25 could start off with M giving Bond a mission and only in the final act of the film does he realise that Blofeld is behind it all and that he wants a showdown with him
That would be nice, but first Blofeld must escape. This can be done in the PTS, but it can feel rushed. Ideally (if there is onnly one Craig movie left), the first part of the movie is about Blofeld escaping and the rest is the YOLT book. If one feels the need for something dramatic at the end of the movie, don't kill Bond. Just give him memory loss, just like the book. Then the next Bond actor can use the start of TMWTGG. If a more upbeat ending is what you want, let him end the movie in the arms of some beautiful woman.
I'd prefer Bond not to marry Madeleine at all. I HATE the concept of Bond marrying someone other than Tracy and then putting that character and Bond in the same OHMSS scenario.
To me it tampers with Tracy's legacy and place in the Bond universe. It's akin to say, having a character like Ben's Q, or Kincaid suffer the same fate as Leiter: "he disagreed with something that ate him", and change that bit of Bondian history for the Craig era. Of course one can use the excuse it's a different timeline and Craig's Tracy was really Vesper. Or Madeleine is the new Tracy for the Craig era, etc etc. Yawn.
Words fail me, here. The great Diana Rigg as Tracy is such a tough act to live up to, it's like comparing David Wilson's Superman in the 1975 TV musical to either Christopher Reeve or George Reeves. Not that I think there was anything particularly wrong with Lea's performance in SP, but Madeleine Swann is no where NEAR the icon Contessa Teresa di Vicenzo is in Bondian lore. I find changing that element for the Craig era pretty disrespectful to that bit of Bond's history.
I sincerely hope none of the latest rumours are true. I don't want it starting with Bond out of the Secret Service because that's basically how SF started. I don't want Bond married to anyone other than Tracy, and certainly not to Madeleine as the character isn't strong enough. Let's try something new for once!
I'd prefer Bond not to marry Madeleine at all. I HATE the concept of Bond marrying someone other than Tracy and then putting that character and Bond in the same OHMSS scenario.
To me it tampers with Tracy's legacy and place in the Bond universe. It's akin to say, having a character like Ben's Q, or Kincaid suffer the same fate as Leiter: "he disagreed with something that ate him", and change that bit of Bondian history for the Craig era. Of course one can use the excuse it's a different timeline and Craig's Tracy was really Vesper. Or Madeleine is the new Tracy for the Craig era, etc etc. Yawn.
Words fail me, here. The great Diana Rigg as Tracy is such a tough act to live up to, it's like comparing David Wilson's Superman in the 1975 TV musical to either Christopher Reeve or George Reeves. Not that I think there was anything particularly wrong with Lea's performance in SP, but Madeleine Swann is no where NEAR the icon Contessa Teresa di Vicenzo is in Bondian lore. I find changing that element for the Craig era pretty disrespectful to that bit of Bond's history.
I suggested this either upthread or in another thread...
I like the idea of Bond apparently dying in the exploding castle, followed by a solemn funeral with M and the gang as the last scene proper
normal folks leave the theatre thinking our hero is dead
(maybe credits music could be a dirgelike medley of all 25 themesongs)
then Marvel style there is a postcredit teaser showing Bond happy and amnesiac on a futon in the Japanese fishing village
bonus: this would boost ticket sales as people would rush back to the theatre to see the rumoured real ending for themselves
(one forum member realistically responded the current films are so half-donkeyed we cant even trust them to adapt Fleming anymore, and any remaining unfilmed Fleming canon should maybe be saved til after the franchise is sold)
the idea of a new actor being introduced a la Fleming's ...Golden Gun is very interesting, clever, high-concept, but...
the shock is kind of entirely absent when its a different actor, how are we supposed to believe M and the gang even recognise him when he both acts different (because he's brainwashed) and looks different?
it would be additionally difficult for us in the audience to put the pieces together, suspend disbelief and care
maybe he's had plastic surgery while being brainwashed by the enemy? still rather convoluted
any new Bond actor would have a different style and persona anyway, brainwashed or not, further confusing us... maybe the brainwashing would be a way to explain the "other fellow" effect in-story without resorting to the codename theory? like even after the brainwashing wears off, the after effects cause him to have one eyebrow permanently raised and treat everything with glib irony?
also it would have to be differentiated from very similar scenes at the start of Die Another Day and SkyFall
I don't mind Apple. It will only lead to Bond using Apple products (and Bond has always been heavily into product placement anyway) and larger budgets. But Amazon producers TV. I fear they'll make some TV spin off and I honestly don't want that.
I don't mind Apple. It will only lead to Bond using Apple products (and Bond has always been heavily into product placement anyway) and larger budgets. But Amazon producers TV. I fear they'll make some TV spin off and I honestly don't want that.
For what it's worth, I can't imagine M or anyone at Mi6 using MacBooks instead of Vaios.
Say what you will about Sony, but I doubt any security force in the world would use an Apple MacBook/iMac etc.
But Amazon produces TV. I fear they'll make some TV spin off and I honestly don't want that.
Just this year Amazon Studios produced "Manchester by the Sea" which was nominated for Best Picture and "The Salesman" which won for Best Foreign Film. It also did "The Lost City of Z"...
Comments
Hope it's not the case. I really want a Bond without the customary Tragic angst. Of course it needs to engage him and us emotionally but that should be possible without all that malarkey. I wonder why Bond just can't just be an agent, a flawed individual for sure but an agent on a mission nonetheless. Here's hoping that the lazy and obvious can be avoided or at least limited.
Why let Craig lose the love of his life twice and see revenge twice instead of using new stories?
I get the sense that the majority here wants to see precisely that. Let's hope it's so.
I second that. Another Bond's lady love is slain, goes out on revenge mission would be eye rolling and so frustrating. I really do not wish to see a remake of any Bond film let alone OHMSS, which is one of the best. Even using the same story beats as Blofeld killing his wife etc would be too much. I'm willing to bet though that Bond 25 will be just that. A continuation of the Spectre story arch and another its personal mission where Bond is rogue going after Blofeld because his bird has been knocked off. I feel at this point that a stand alone mission is not on the cards with Craig. I'm super nervous about Bond 25!
Spectre fulfilled the narrative role of OHMSS in this post reboot continuity; the story where Bond, during his mission involving Blofeld, falls for a woman who (supposedly) understands his pain as she is the damaged daughter of a criminal and Bond turns his back on MI6 for her.
All the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
Someone (in the media) who is not as Bond savvy could make the leap that Bond getting married and his wife being killed would be a remake of OHMSS.
I'm no expert on the Fleming novels by any stretch but logic would tell us that Bond 25 wouldn't be a remake of OHMSS. What would be more likely is a PTS similar to the end of OHMSS, where Madeleine like Tracy is murdered after wedding Bond. The smart move, IMO, is that the rest of the film is a faithfull adaptation of the YOLT novel, retitled "The Garden of Death". After the PTS, the film could pick up 2-3 years later.
I agree with this. Since SP took many elements from OHMSS (but not as many as originally planned), the OHMSS "remake" was just done. I don't think they would do it again. I think I would like it if the next PTS had Bond and Madeleine marry, and Madeleine be killed off by someone working for Blofeld. And then we have another revenge story. Character-wise, a mission for Craig's Bond doesn't really make sense. At the age of 51, Bond would all of the sudden be interested in doing his job?
You're right. I wanted a stand-alone-Bond-on-a-mission film, like many others here. But that would've only worked with a new Bond. At this point in Craig's Bond's narrative arc, that wouldn't make much sense. They might as well do what you say in the PTS and use Fleming's YOLT for the rest. With Fleming providing the backbone, maybe they can write a script that's compelling. It would at least be a real Bond story and would give us as fans something we've not seen adapted.
Also, Daniel Craig's Bond would be a chump if somehow Madeline gets killed by some agent of Spectre or even Blofeld. After all Bond did have Blofeld down and passed on killing him. Bond has killed people for far less than what Blofeld did to Daniel Craig's Bond since they made Blofeld responsible for just about everything beginning with Casino Royale. Professor Dent did very little compared to Blofeld. Also, it would defeat Daniel Craig's first good Bond film ending in his series.
I don't want to see a Bond losing his memory story either from that Spectre torture scene. Honestly, with the people writing the movie, I have a hard time believing that Daniel Craig will really go out on a high note. Spectre wasn't perfect. But they really tried to tie everything together with that movie. It did come off as amateur hour at times but still it was finally a Bond movie with Daniel Craig. And one which I would go as far as saying would have been the best last movie for a Bond actor that we've seen.
I know, I know...it's never gonna happen! But with the recent trend for playing fast and loose with the life's of major characters in film and TV (GoT; Batman etc), I think there could be much to be gained from not having to follow the eternal rule that he must survive.
I mean, you don't need to be an operative to see the obvious. It's a young man's game.
B25 could start off with M giving Bond a mission and only in the final act of the film does he realise that Blofeld is behind it all and that he wants a showdown with him
-Casino Royale, Ian Fleming
Bond had a hard reboot in 2006, just eleven years ago. Every reboot before were soft ones. I see no need for an even harder reboot, especially just five movies after CR.
I like the sound of that. Good idea -{
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/apple-amazon-join-race-james-bond-film-rights-1035539
To me it tampers with Tracy's legacy and place in the Bond universe. It's akin to say, having a character like Ben's Q, or Kincaid suffer the same fate as Leiter: "he disagreed with something that ate him", and change that bit of Bondian history for the Craig era. Of course one can use the excuse it's a different timeline and Craig's Tracy was really Vesper. Or Madeleine is the new Tracy for the Craig era, etc etc. Yawn.
Words fail me, here. The great Diana Rigg as Tracy is such a tough act to live up to, it's like comparing David Wilson's Superman in the 1975 TV musical to either Christopher Reeve or George Reeves. Not that I think there was anything particularly wrong with Lea's performance in SP, but Madeleine Swann is no where NEAR the icon Contessa Teresa di Vicenzo is in Bondian lore. I find changing that element for the Craig era pretty disrespectful to that bit of Bond's history.
+1 :007)
I like the idea of Bond apparently dying in the exploding castle, followed by a solemn funeral with M and the gang as the last scene proper
normal folks leave the theatre thinking our hero is dead
(maybe credits music could be a dirgelike medley of all 25 themesongs)
then Marvel style there is a postcredit teaser showing Bond happy and amnesiac on a futon in the Japanese fishing village
bonus: this would boost ticket sales as people would rush back to the theatre to see the rumoured real ending for themselves
(one forum member realistically responded the current films are so half-donkeyed we cant even trust them to adapt Fleming anymore, and any remaining unfilmed Fleming canon should maybe be saved til after the franchise is sold)
the idea of a new actor being introduced a la Fleming's ...Golden Gun is very interesting, clever, high-concept, but...
the shock is kind of entirely absent when its a different actor, how are we supposed to believe M and the gang even recognise him when he both acts different (because he's brainwashed) and looks different?
it would be additionally difficult for us in the audience to put the pieces together, suspend disbelief and care
maybe he's had plastic surgery while being brainwashed by the enemy? still rather convoluted
any new Bond actor would have a different style and persona anyway, brainwashed or not, further confusing us... maybe the brainwashing would be a way to explain the "other fellow" effect in-story without resorting to the codename theory? like even after the brainwashing wears off, the after effects cause him to have one eyebrow permanently raised and treat everything with glib irony?
also it would have to be differentiated from very similar scenes at the start of Die Another Day and SkyFall
I don't mind Apple. It will only lead to Bond using Apple products (and Bond has always been heavily into product placement anyway) and larger budgets. But Amazon producers TV. I fear they'll make some TV spin off and I honestly don't want that.
Say what you will about Sony, but I doubt any security force in the world would use an Apple MacBook/iMac etc.
Typed from my 2014 MacBook Pro.
Just this year Amazon Studios produced "Manchester by the Sea" which was nominated for Best Picture and "The Salesman" which won for Best Foreign Film. It also did "The Lost City of Z"...