Not sure how I would feel about Villeneuve. I enjoyed Prisoners a lot but found Sicario and Arrival a bit, meh.
I though the third act let down Sicario. I loved the first two thirds. The third act was, eh, how do we finish this, OK let's have (Bond alumni) Benicio Del Toro just kill everyone. Disappointing.
The reason behind everything del Torro's character did in the movie was to get revenge after his family was killed by a drug cartel. The ending of Sicario wasn't a convenient way to end the movie, but the goal of the character's life. A superb thriller!
I some how knew he would be back and im so glad he is .its still a two year wait but looking forward to it .hes for me the best bond since Connery and ive loved all his bond films so far.
I thought Sicario was pretty good but Prisoners was the film that made Denis one of my favorite directors. That film is absolutely brilliant. I couldn't be happier that he helmed Blade Runner 2049 instead of Ridley Scott. And if he did Bond that would likely mean Roger Deakins would return as well.
Sicario is an excellent film, but it's very different in style than a Bond movie. Some directors can shift with the project, but others want to stamp all of them with their particular vision. Bond movies were never met to be clautrophobic, personal, or morally ambiguous. A director who thinks so could be out of their depth with what amounts to escapist epics. This is something Mendes got wrong with SPECTRE, trying too hard to shoe in a small story on a broad scale.
True. But Arrival is a very different type of movie from Sicario. I think what his movies have in common is tension and good characters. Both carry over well to Bond and I think he can deliver the scope and awesome action scenes if he's asked to.
I haven't seen Arrival, though I've read the short story it's based on. The short story, at least, is a very personal one. I think the acid test will be Blade Runner 2049, which will involve some larger scale images and ideas. I'm not sure anyone today can do epics -- filling the screen with lots of cartoonish CGI doesn't really count in my book, and there's still the need to make a small, personal story merely set against a big backdrop.
I haven't seen Arrival, though I've read the short story it's based on. The short story, at least, is a very personal one. I think the acid test will be Blade Runner 2049, which will involve some larger scale images and ideas. I'm not sure anyone today can do epics -- filling the screen with lots of cartoonish CGI doesn't really count in my book, and there's still the need to make a small, personal story merely set against a big backdrop.
I agree that BR 2049 will probably determine if Denis would be a good fit for a Bond film. Or atleast being able to handle the action requirements of a Bond film because based off of the trailers BR 2049 features the most large-scale action out of all of his films to date. What's interesting to speculate is if he was the director of B25 would that mean his usual composer Johann Johannsson would do the music? Or like in BR 2049 would he bring in Benjamin Wallfisch and Hans Zimmer to score it?
I haven't seen Arrival, though I've read the short story it's based on. The short story, at least, is a very personal one. I think the acid test will be Blade Runner 2049, which will involve some larger scale images and ideas. I'm not sure anyone today can do epics -- filling the screen with lots of cartoonish CGI doesn't really count in my book, and there's still the need to make a small, personal story merely set against a big backdrop.
I agree that BR 2049 will probably determine if Denis would be a good fit for a Bond film. Or atleast being able to handle the action requirements of a Bond film because based off of the trailers BR 2049 features the most large-scale action out of all of his films to date. What's interesting to speculate is if he was the director of B25 would that mean his usual composer Johann Johannsson would do the music? Or like in BR 2049 would he bring in Benjamin Wallfisch and Hans Zimmer to score it?
I absolutely loved Arrival, but for some reason struggled with Sicario... I'm sorry to say I found it hard work and a little dull, but maybe I simply wasn't in the right frame of mind to appreciate it; I will give another try at some point. One thing he (Villeneuve) does, it extract superb performances from his cast... I even like Forest in Arrival (not one of my favorite actors :v ) and Amy Adams and Emily Blunt were each superb. If he did 25 and could get Deakins back as DP that would be wonderful, as there are few that can match him... I can't wait to see what these two have done with BR 2049.
I wonder why Jóhannsson's work on BR was dropped for Zimmer?... JJ's work seemed like the perfect match for that sequel
I wonder why Jóhannsson's work on BR was dropped for Zimmer?... JJ's work seemed like the perfect match for that sequel
Only pure speculation on my part but I surmise Johannsson couldn't write good action music. I love his very ambient and dark score for Prisoners but I cant see him providing pulse-pounding action music. Whereas synth-like action music is Zimmer's bread and butter, not to mention the original score by Vangelis is one of his top five favorite scores of all time. Denis has already said in a recent interview that the BR2049 score by Wallfisch and Zimmer is "one of the best score's he's ever heard". So it seems they made the right decision to drop Johannsson from the project.
Only pure speculation on my part but I surmise Johannsson couldn't write good action music.
A likely possibility indeed... conventional action music may not be his thing, but he does dark and thunderous very well, and I thought that would work well for BR. A pity they could not have combined his work with Zimmer, but maybe neither party wanted that.
I can't hear Jóhannsson's style in Bond either, at least beyond some atmospherics.
Still on the subject of music, and specifically Newman, I don't know if anyone has posted this here, but, this is a very interesting video of a Q&A with the composer at the Oxford Union... he touches on the SF and SP scores a little. Regardless of whether Newman is right or wrong for Bond, its an interesting (hour long) piece. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeHNUJ-hNmE
I can't hear Jóhannsson's style in Bond either, at least beyond some atmospherics.
Johannsson's music style, much like Newman's, is the polar opposite of what we associate with the "Bond sound". So it would be interesting to hear him break out of his usual soundscape to tackle Bond. Or at least do what Newman did with SF and merge his distinctly reserved style with the required brassy bombast of Bond.
So it would be interesting to hear him break out of his usual soundscape to tackle Bond. Or at least do what Newman did with SF and merge his distinctly reserved style with the required brassy bombast of Bond.
It most certainly would... I think Newman and his background had a better chance of working (he's done some fairly traditional scores in the past) and on the whole I think it did, but I'm a huge admirer of his work. I'm disappointed the reception has been rather cool to his Bond work, but I would have to agree that SF and SP are not his best scores, despite some wonderful moments. Its his more reserved/minimal and experimental stuff that I feel works best, and those are not qualities that fit this franchise for the most part.
This would all be a lot simpler if EON just put their collective foot down and basically stated to any prospective composer: listen to the Bond scores written by John Barry. Feel free to put your personal stamp on it, but you need to compose a score that captures that essence which is an integral part of the films. If you cannot do that, don't let the door hit you in your arse on the way out.
This would all be a lot simpler if EON just put their collective foot down and basically stated to any prospective composer: listen to the Bond scores written by John Barry. Feel free to put your personal stamp on it, but you need to compose a score that captures that essence which is an integral part of the films. If you cannot do that, don't let the door hit you in your arse on the way out.
This would all be a lot simpler if EON just put their collective foot down and basically stated to any prospective composer: listen to the Bond scores written by John Barry. Feel free to put your personal stamp on it, but you need to compose a score that captures that essence which is an integral part of the films. If you cannot do that, don't let the door hit you in your arse on the way out.
While this would be ideal, I think a composer can still capture the essence of Bond and the feel of the films in a different style. Despite George Martin's, Marvin Hamlisch's and Bill Conti's music sounding dated now, I think they all did that in a different style from Barry. Thomas Newman certainly did not.
I know this comment is about this old post, but I needed to mention that it was very sad for me to see the gaps between the Craig films compared to the those from the earlier decades. This has started me wondering if my enthusiasm for the series has started to fade because of this. I was initially placing the blame on my own aging. After all I've seen every film in the theaters since DN was released. However, after carefully examining my life and how the world has changed and how the series has changed and how it is tied so much to the financial politics of corporate profits in the world where film studios had long ago been swallowed up by international corporate interests, I've concluded this is the overall reason for my weakened interest.
I still reread the novels off and on through the years and still watch the DVD's and find enjoyment each time I do, but ever since QOS my eagerness to see the next installment has waned. SF helped bump that up quite a bit, not only because it was the 50th anniversary and it came about the same time as the Olympics and there was so much nolstagia and reverence and celebration around the Bond character, but also because the film itself was a real corker IMO. Then I learned the next film would be years away and my interest started to fade again over the months. When SP finally came out and I saw it, I left the cinema feeling a bit empty. Don't misunderstand - I enjoyed some parts of the film, but it has taken me this long to figure out that I will no longer have the passion for future entries that I had in the past. If the franchise will be forever tied to the caprice of corporate and legal game playing - which seems to be invevitable because of the amount of money it takes to mount the films - then I don't see how there will ever be a time when the series would return to releasing films ever other year or even two consistently. Tie that to the very distinct possibility of future plots either becoming just checking the box cliches or recycled rogue agent riffs that one has patiently waited for years to come to past - I fear my passion for the whole franchise will even cause me to let go of following the online Bond fansites like this one.
I wouldn't be troubled by the gaps as much of the quality was there. But twice or more much time doesn't seem to result in twice more as good a film. I'd count the first four as among the very best of the series, and they were as the chart suggests made only about a year apart.
how'd they get ...Golden Gun made so fast, once they'd already fallen into the 2 year pattern?
I know ...Spy... was delayed because of Saltzman quitting and some other financial issues
in that case the delayed film was three times as good as the previous one that got made too fast
how'd they get ...Golden Gun made so fast, once they'd already fallen into the 2 year pattern?
It was already being planned during production of LALD. Cubby and Harry, barely on speaking terms at this point, alternated duties- one would be on location during shooting and the other in the office.
SF helped bump that up quite a bit, not only because it was the 50th anniversary and it came about the same time as the Olympics and there was so much nolstagia and reverence and celebration around the Bond character, but also because the film itself was a real corker IMO. Then I learned the next film would be years away and my interest started to fade again over the months. When SP finally came out and I saw it, I left the cinema feeling a bit empty. Don't misunderstand - I enjoyed some parts of the film, but it has taken me this long to figure out that I will no longer have the passion for future entries that I had in the past
I felt the exact same way. The ending of SF made me so excited for Bond's next adventure. But after Spectre I also left the theater feeling a bit empty. I was ok with not seeing Bond on screen for awhile.
It was already being planned during production of LALD. Cubby and Harry, barely on speaking terms at this point, alternated duties- one would be on location during shooting and the other in the office.
planning the next film while they're still shooting the current one sounds like a good method
the current filmmakers would do well to follow such a method, instead of making up the script once they've already begun filming
so did the previous three films take longer to make because they kept having to hire a new actor? I know You Only Live Twice got delayed because they were wasting time looking for the locations Fleming had described
also, did Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (1968) take up time and resources they would otherwise have devoted to the next Bond film? were there any other EON productions that distracted them during this time?
how'd they get ...Golden Gun made so fast, once they'd already fallen into the 2 year pattern?
I know ...Spy... was delayed because of Saltzman quitting and some other financial issues
in that case the delayed film was three times as good as the previous one that got made too fast
Year and a half pattern: DAF December of '71, LALD June of '73 then TMWTGG December of '74. Pretty much the same amount of time it took to get LALD released after DAF. After the 2 and a half year gap for SPY the next 12 years pretty much follow exact two year gaps. I miss those days.
did Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (1968) take up time and resources they would otherwise have devoted to the next Bond film? were there any other EON productions that distracted them during this time?
No, there weren't any others. Due to prior agreements, Saltzman & Broccoli produced "Call Me Bwana" between DN and FRWL then Broccoli alone produced CCBB between YOLT and OHMSS. Saltzman produced many films on his own after Eon was formed (eg "The Ipcress File" and its sequels, "Battle Of Britain") but CCBB was Broccoli's only non-Bond (though still Fleming!) production in this period. "Call Me Bwana" was an Eon film (hence its plug in FRWL), but CCBB wasn't.
all good info, and even a year-and-a-half pattern would be better than one every three or four (or six)
and it is definitely sensible to be planning the next film while still finishing the current one
that's how they could always promise "James Bond will return in <insert unused Fleming title here>"
folks above blame the increased corporate involvement for complicating things too much, but other popular series are coming out at an annual rate, and they serve corporate masters too
Marvel gets three films out a year
it just seems though these Broccoli kids wait four years to make a film, and they have nothing special to show for all that time they've wasted
With the Blade Runner 2049 reviews coming in I'm more and more convinced that Denis Villeneuve should direct 25.... And forget Waltz and Blofeld.... I want Dave Bautista/Hinx to come back as the main adversary..... Baustista is becoming a star actor, with amazing screen presence and a genuine physical threat, but, god knows how the writers could spin that plot )
Denis, Deakins, Craig and Mr. Bautista... I'd watch it :007)
Comments
I though the third act let down Sicario. I loved the first two thirds. The third act was, eh, how do we finish this, OK let's have (Bond alumni) Benicio Del Toro just kill everyone. Disappointing.
I watched Prisoners yesterday and have seen Arrival. Villeneuve can do tension, atmosphere really well. I can't see his Bond being 'light'.
I agree, BR2049 will be a big factor in any EON decision.
I wonder why Jóhannsson's work on BR was dropped for Zimmer?... JJ's work seemed like the perfect match for that sequel
A likely possibility indeed... conventional action music may not be his thing, but he does dark and thunderous very well, and I thought that would work well for BR. A pity they could not have combined his work with Zimmer, but maybe neither party wanted that.
I can't hear Jóhannsson's style in Bond either, at least beyond some atmospherics.
Still on the subject of music, and specifically Newman, I don't know if anyone has posted this here, but, this is a very interesting video of a Q&A with the composer at the Oxford Union... he touches on the SF and SP scores a little. Regardless of whether Newman is right or wrong for Bond, its an interesting (hour long) piece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeHNUJ-hNmE
It most certainly would... I think Newman and his background had a better chance of working (he's done some fairly traditional scores in the past) and on the whole I think it did, but I'm a huge admirer of his work. I'm disappointed the reception has been rather cool to his Bond work, but I would have to agree that SF and SP are not his best scores, despite some wonderful moments. Its his more reserved/minimal and experimental stuff that I feel works best, and those are not qualities that fit this franchise for the most part.
https://twitter.com/bond25film/status/912657168314306561
http://film.britishcouncil.org/bond-25
Twitter: @mybudgetbond1
While this would be ideal, I think a composer can still capture the essence of Bond and the feel of the films in a different style. Despite George Martin's, Marvin Hamlisch's and Bill Conti's music sounding dated now, I think they all did that in a different style from Barry. Thomas Newman certainly did not.
I still reread the novels off and on through the years and still watch the DVD's and find enjoyment each time I do, but ever since QOS my eagerness to see the next installment has waned. SF helped bump that up quite a bit, not only because it was the 50th anniversary and it came about the same time as the Olympics and there was so much nolstagia and reverence and celebration around the Bond character, but also because the film itself was a real corker IMO. Then I learned the next film would be years away and my interest started to fade again over the months. When SP finally came out and I saw it, I left the cinema feeling a bit empty. Don't misunderstand - I enjoyed some parts of the film, but it has taken me this long to figure out that I will no longer have the passion for future entries that I had in the past. If the franchise will be forever tied to the caprice of corporate and legal game playing - which seems to be invevitable because of the amount of money it takes to mount the films - then I don't see how there will ever be a time when the series would return to releasing films ever other year or even two consistently. Tie that to the very distinct possibility of future plots either becoming just checking the box cliches or recycled rogue agent riffs that one has patiently waited for years to come to past - I fear my passion for the whole franchise will even cause me to let go of following the online Bond fansites like this one.
I know ...Spy... was delayed because of Saltzman quitting and some other financial issues
in that case the delayed film was three times as good as the previous one that got made too fast
It was already being planned during production of LALD. Cubby and Harry, barely on speaking terms at this point, alternated duties- one would be on location during shooting and the other in the office.
the current filmmakers would do well to follow such a method, instead of making up the script once they've already begun filming
so did the previous three films take longer to make because they kept having to hire a new actor? I know You Only Live Twice got delayed because they were wasting time looking for the locations Fleming had described
also, did Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (1968) take up time and resources they would otherwise have devoted to the next Bond film? were there any other EON productions that distracted them during this time?
Year and a half pattern: DAF December of '71, LALD June of '73 then TMWTGG December of '74. Pretty much the same amount of time it took to get LALD released after DAF. After the 2 and a half year gap for SPY the next 12 years pretty much follow exact two year gaps. I miss those days.
No, there weren't any others. Due to prior agreements, Saltzman & Broccoli produced "Call Me Bwana" between DN and FRWL then Broccoli alone produced CCBB between YOLT and OHMSS. Saltzman produced many films on his own after Eon was formed (eg "The Ipcress File" and its sequels, "Battle Of Britain") but CCBB was Broccoli's only non-Bond (though still Fleming!) production in this period. "Call Me Bwana" was an Eon film (hence its plug in FRWL), but CCBB wasn't.
and it is definitely sensible to be planning the next film while still finishing the current one
that's how they could always promise "James Bond will return in <insert unused Fleming title here>"
folks above blame the increased corporate involvement for complicating things too much, but other popular series are coming out at an annual rate, and they serve corporate masters too
Marvel gets three films out a year
it just seems though these Broccoli kids wait four years to make a film, and they have nothing special to show for all that time they've wasted
Denis, Deakins, Craig and Mr. Bautista... I'd watch it :007)