Right, I think that’s what many of us mean by “the theme.” The title theme, not the Bond theme. Newman did fine with the Bond theme, IMO. That wasn’t the issue at all. I can’t recall a single chord of Adele’s or Smith’s music in the score for either Skyfall or Spectre.
You know there are full and lush versions of each song in each film's score, yes? Only one for each, it's true, but they're bigger than the little hints of Another Way To Die we got the previous time.
I don’t know that because, as I said, I can’t recall hearing that. If you say it’s there I don’t doubt you. But they do not stand out, at least not to me.
The problem with judging composers work is you have no idea how much of the music is them vs. how much of it was decisions being made by the director...
Yes I would like to know whose idea it was to make the Spectre score so similar to Skyfall in places: it almost doesn't feel like a composer's choice and I've always suspected it was something Newman was asked to do.
I can 100% believe that. There were rumors that Mendes frayed a few working relationships on Bond (I'd heard gossip that was why editor Stuart Baird - the secret ingredient behind Casino Royale and Skyfall working as well as they did - didn't return for Spectre).
Interesting: sounds possible.
The other slight possibility I thought there might be was that Mendes persuaded Newman -a very in demand composer even if you don't believe it- by saying he could reuse some of his scoring from the previous one. But that's an absolute guess based on nothing of course - I'm sure he still had to work just as hard!
Right, I think that’s what many of us mean by “the theme.” The title theme, not the Bond theme. Newman did fine with the Bond theme, IMO. That wasn’t the issue at all. I can’t recall a single chord of Adele’s or Smith’s music in the score for either Skyfall or Spectre.
You know there are full and lush versions of each song in each film's score, yes? Only one for each, it's true, but they're bigger than the little hints of Another Way To Die we got the previous time.
I don’t know that because, as I said, I can’t recall hearing that. If you say it’s there I don’t doubt you. But they do not stand out, at least not to me.
I mean, there's almost nothing else happening in those scenes. There's no dialogue: you just get big versions of the themes over the casino arrival and train scene respectively.
You can see why I'm slightly doubting some of you guys' ears...?
You know there are full and lush versions of each song in each film's score, yes? Only one for each, it's true, but they're bigger than the little hints of Another Way To Die we got the previous time.
I don’t know that because, as I said, I can’t recall hearing that. If you say it’s there I don’t doubt you. But they do not stand out, at least not to me.
I mean, there's almost nothing else happening in those scenes. There's no dialogue: you just get big versions of the themes over the casino arrival and train scene respectively.
You can see why I'm slightly doubting some of you guys' ears...?
Ok, I just listened to Komodo Dragon and you’re right, we get about a minute of Adele - and it’s great! So why is that all? It’s a bit scant if you think in terms of the entire score/film. The better Bond scores of the past 50+ years have all had more.
You know there are full and lush versions of each song in each film's score, yes? Only one for each, it's true, but they're bigger than the little hints of Another Way To Die we got the previous time.
I don’t know that because, as I said, I can’t recall hearing that. If you say it’s there I don’t doubt you. But they do not stand out, at least not to me.
I mean, there's almost nothing else happening in those scenes. There's no dialogue: you just get big versions of the themes over the casino arrival and train scene respectively.
You can see why I'm slightly doubting some of you guys' ears...?
I didn't miss those! But it would have been nice if those were used in bits and pieces like the Bond theme was, and if he used the Bond theme once like he did for the main themes.
I think a lot of people want melody back in the Bond scores. Melody in a film score helps the viewer connect with the film. While the Zimmer-like beats that Newman used in his Bond scores gives a certain kind of energy to the action, it's not as emotionally connecting as a melody can be. But I know that Newman doesn't like too much melody in his scores because he feels that it can be distracting. I know what he's saying because it is distracting when too much Bond theme is used. But melody also brings a level of energy or emotion to a film that more ambient music cannot bring to the film. Melody helps us to connect with characters or action. When Newman does use melody, like he did beautifully for Madeleine in Spectre, it's not used enough throughout the score to make an impact. Establishing and maintaining familiarity in a score to help the audience connect with the film has been an effective way of scoring films, and an effective way of writing operas long before that. Newman's subtly in that regard doesn't help the audience, nor does it make his music more sophisticated.
I can remember and hum most of the John Barry soundtracks from memory. Likewise George Martin's LALD and many pieces of from David Arnold, but not Thomas Newman's I'm afraid.
I can remember and hum most of the John Barry soundtracks from memory. Likewise George Martin's LALD and many pieces of from David Arnold, but not Thomas Newman's I'm afraid.
I don’t know that because, as I said, I can’t recall hearing that. If you say it’s there I don’t doubt you. But they do not stand out, at least not to me.
I mean, there's almost nothing else happening in those scenes. There's no dialogue: you just get big versions of the themes over the casino arrival and train scene respectively.
You can see why I'm slightly doubting some of you guys' ears...?
Ok, I just listened to Komodo Dragon and you’re right, we get about a minute of Adele - and it’s great! So why is that all? It’s a bit scant if you think in terms of the entire score/film. The better Bond scores of the past 50+ years have all had more.
I think the reason (for this instance and "Another Way To Die'" brief use in the "stationery" scene in Qos) was that the scores were already being put together by the time the theme songs were chosen, and the film composers weren't involved, so they had to reverse engineer them into the fims.
I don’t know that because, as I said, I can’t recall hearing that. If you say it’s there I don’t doubt you. But they do not stand out, at least not to me.
I mean, there's almost nothing else happening in those scenes. There's no dialogue: you just get big versions of the themes over the casino arrival and train scene respectively.
You can see why I'm slightly doubting some of you guys' ears...?
Ok, I just listened to Komodo Dragon and you’re right, we get about a minute of Adele - and it’s great! So why is that all? It’s a bit scant if you think in terms of the entire score/film. The better Bond scores of the past 50+ years have all had more.
I think I read that the reason was that the song was written so late that it wasn't possible to incorporate it further into the score. I might be wrong.
I think the reason (for this instance and "Another Way To Die'" brief use in the "stationery" scene in Qos) was that the scores were already being put together by the time the theme songs were chosen, and the film composers weren't involved, so they had to reverse engineer them into the fims.
Heh! Great minds...
I think AWTD does appear in a few more places through the film, but it's only hints and little flashes of melody here and there- you have to really listen out.
Ooh; actual news buried in amongst all this! Sounds very plausible
I definitely thought this bit was News You Can Use:
The challenge of scoring Bond, of course, has always been about bending but not breaking the rules established by John Barry. Arnold was successful in launching the Craig era, but it was more of a struggle for Thomas Newman in “Skyfall” and “Spectre.” He was out of his comfort zone when it came to action, and it showed in “Spectre” when he leaned heavily on his “Skyfall” themes. And it didn’t make it any easier with director Sam Mendes adding more touches from the Connery era.
I know the (not officially but c'mon) abandoned "No Good About Goodbye" turns up throughout but I've only caught the AWTD riff in that one spot.
Yeah I can't recall the others off the top of my head. Sometimes it's just the repeated one note on the piano from the song: I think the film might even end on one as it fades out?
Ooh; actual news buried in amongst all this! Sounds very plausible
I definitely thought this bit was News You Can Use:
The challenge of scoring Bond, of course, has always been about bending but not breaking the rules established by John Barry. Arnold was successful in launching the Craig era, but it was more of a struggle for Thomas Newman in “Skyfall” and “Spectre.” He was out of his comfort zone when it came to action, and it showed in “Spectre” when he leaned heavily on his “Skyfall” themes. And it didn’t make it any easier with director Sam Mendes adding more touches from the Connery era.
My choice was Arnold, Romer could work. I was just listening to some of the Beasts of No Nation score and while the score was predominately synths, it was quite melodic and he is not afraid to weave his theme music throughout the score, something the classic Bond scores did to great effect. Romer has a rep as a composer who is adept at creating music that fits the mood of the film and contributes to the emotion of what's going on on the screen. The Indie Wire article was a bit odd that they started out with the idea of "shake up" and then alluded to the rules of a Bond score set by John Barry. I hope Romer's score for Bond 25 is influenced by that and the "shake up" reference was more about click bait. To me, it's not just an action film score, it's a Bond film score.
My choice was Arnold, Romer could work. I was just listening to some of the Beasts of No Nation score and while the score was predominately synths, it was quite melodic and he is not afraid to weave his theme music throughout the score, something the classic Bond scores did to great effect. Romer has a rep as a composer who is adept at creating music that fits the mood of the film and contributes to the emotion of what's going on on the screen. The Indie Wire article was a bit odd that they started out with the idea of "shake up" and then alluded to the rules of a Bond score set by John Barry. I hope Romer's score for Bond 25 is influenced by that and the "shake up" reference was more about click bait. To me, it's not just an action film score, it's a Bond film score.
Nah, I want originality and someone being true to their own talents and the world of Bond- giving us their interpretation of 007 music; not just someone trying (and failing) to be John Barry.
I suppose George Martin, Marvin Hamlisch and Bill Conti all contributed scores which could conceivably "shake up the franchise". To me each one sounds perfectly Bondian in their own way without attempting to copy Barry. Perhaps Romer will give us something similar.
Listening to some of his work on Youtube I feel less optimistic, and fear Michel LeGrand's NSNA may very well go up in rankings (same with Serra).
I suppose George Martin, Marvin Hamlisch and Bill Conti all contributed scores which could conceivably "shake up the franchise". To me each one sounds perfectly Bondian in their own way without attempting to copy Barry. Perhaps Romer will give us something similar.
This is what I am also hoping for.
I'm listening to Maniac's soundtrack now, and I am very impressed. Beasts of No Nation, however, was very disappointing.
I suppose George Martin, Marvin Hamlisch and Bill Conti all contributed scores which could conceivably "shake up the franchise". To me each one sounds perfectly Bondian in their own way without attempting to copy Barry. Perhaps Romer will give us something similar.
This is what I am also hoping for.
I'm listening to Maniac's soundtrack now, and I am very impressed. Beasts of No Nation, however, was very disappointing.
Comments
I don’t know that because, as I said, I can’t recall hearing that. If you say it’s there I don’t doubt you. But they do not stand out, at least not to me.
Interesting: sounds possible.
The other slight possibility I thought there might be was that Mendes persuaded Newman -a very in demand composer even if you don't believe it- by saying he could reuse some of his scoring from the previous one. But that's an absolute guess based on nothing of course - I'm sure he still had to work just as hard!
I mean, there's almost nothing else happening in those scenes. There's no dialogue: you just get big versions of the themes over the casino arrival and train scene respectively.
You can see why I'm slightly doubting some of you guys' ears...?
Ok, I just listened to Komodo Dragon and you’re right, we get about a minute of Adele - and it’s great! So why is that all? It’s a bit scant if you think in terms of the entire score/film. The better Bond scores of the past 50+ years have all had more.
I didn't miss those! But it would have been nice if those were used in bits and pieces like the Bond theme was, and if he used the Bond theme once like he did for the main themes.
I think a lot of people want melody back in the Bond scores. Melody in a film score helps the viewer connect with the film. While the Zimmer-like beats that Newman used in his Bond scores gives a certain kind of energy to the action, it's not as emotionally connecting as a melody can be. But I know that Newman doesn't like too much melody in his scores because he feels that it can be distracting. I know what he's saying because it is distracting when too much Bond theme is used. But melody also brings a level of energy or emotion to a film that more ambient music cannot bring to the film. Melody helps us to connect with characters or action. When Newman does use melody, like he did beautifully for Madeleine in Spectre, it's not used enough throughout the score to make an impact. Establishing and maintaining familiarity in a score to help the audience connect with the film has been an effective way of scoring films, and an effective way of writing operas long before that. Newman's subtly in that regard doesn't help the audience, nor does it make his music more sophisticated.
We could just have a humathon contest..? You choose SF and SP soundtracks, I'll choose LALD and MR. I bet you blink first...! :v :007)
I agree. It's not easy or fun humming one long low note. Let's form a humming orchestra and perform some of the great 1970s scores!
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/07/bond-25-composer-dan-romer-cary-fukunaga-1202154760/
Edit: emtiem might not want to read that article
I think the reason (for this instance and "Another Way To Die'" brief use in the "stationery" scene in Qos) was that the scores were already being put together by the time the theme songs were chosen, and the film composers weren't involved, so they had to reverse engineer them into the fims.
I think I read that the reason was that the song was written so late that it wasn't possible to incorporate it further into the score. I might be wrong.
Ooh; actual news buried in amongst all this! Sounds very plausible, can't say I know his stuff though.
Heh! Great minds...
I think AWTD does appear in a few more places through the film, but it's only hints and little flashes of melody here and there- you have to really listen out.
I definitely thought this bit was News You Can Use:
Yeah I can't recall the others off the top of my head. Sometimes it's just the repeated one note on the piano from the song: I think the film might even end on one as it fades out?
These are of course, not actual facts
Yes, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this was true.
Maniac I liked, and I vaguely remember the soundtrack, and it is clearly inappropriate for Bond.
At least it's not Newman who had little idea about scoring an action film.
I feel that we're going to get another Skyfall.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Dan_romer/status/1146083906300420096
How weird that we were talking about the score!
I can't say I know his work but happy to give the guy a chance and nice to have some more news. -{
Nah, I want originality and someone being true to their own talents and the world of Bond- giving us their interpretation of 007 music; not just someone trying (and failing) to be John Barry.
Listening to some of his work on Youtube I feel less optimistic, and fear Michel LeGrand's NSNA may very well go up in rankings (same with Serra).
This is what I am also hoping for.
I'm listening to Maniac's soundtrack now, and I am very impressed. Beasts of No Nation, however, was very disappointing.
Bond connection or not, I have been enjoying Maniac today as well.
A couple other good ones are The Innocent Man and Far Cry 5. Some nice suspense/action music.
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll check them out when I'm done with Maniac.