Oh it’s a pretty vapid article, I’m not saying it’s a work of genius. But there’s little get upset about there, and anyone crying victim to perceived racist activity needs a long hard look at themselves.
Maybe slightly off topic, but I notice the viewing figures for the female ‘dr Who’ (name?) are the lowest since it returned in 2005, as to bond, mess with a winning formula at your peril, by winning I mean it’s still relevant after all these years, and that’s a win, no?
Oh it’s a pretty vapid article, I’m not saying it’s a work of genius. But there’s little get upset about there, and anyone crying victim to perceived racist activity needs a long hard look at themselves.
I'm not a victim and I don't see any other members here presenting themselves as victims. I'm only commenting on a tendency in this interview and in parts of media where white and straight is seen as not up-to-date or cool. I do understand the frustration of some who don't belong to these groups and I think in time something has to and will be done to better this. I just don't think the answer is turning established characters non-white and gay. I think changing the skin colour of a character isn't just a question of skin pigment, it also (usually) says something of the history of the character. That being said I'm not completely against a dark-skinned Bond. A gay or bi Bond on the other hand is ridiculous. These changes can work in some franchises and others not. I wouldn't mind a female, non-straight or non-white lead in the Mission Impossible movies when Tom Cruise quits, since the lead has no real history and little character. A character like Sherlock Holmes is on the other side of the scale, lots of character and history.
I think the solution is making new big-budget and high quality characters with leads who are not white or straight. It's best for the general movie audience who get more variety and I belive it's best for the non-white and non-straight to see people like them can be movie heroes in their own right and not stand on the shoulders of/relying on existing characters.
Maybe slightly off topic, but I notice the viewing figures for the female ‘dr Who’ (name?) are the lowest since it returned in 2005, as to bond, mess with a winning formula at your peril, by winning I mean it’s still relevant after all these years, and that’s a win, no?
Don’t be ridiculous. When they brought it back they messed with the formula quite hugely, and it was a massive success. Don’t draw false correlations without any evidence.
Oh it’s a pretty vapid article, I’m not saying it’s a work of genius. But there’s little get upset about there, and anyone crying victim to perceived racist activity needs a long hard look at themselves.
I'm not a victim and I don't see any other members here presenting themselves as victims.
Well someone mentioned feeling like it’s okay to be racist against white people.
I'm only commenting on a tendency in this interview and in parts of media where white and straight is seen as not up-to-date or cool. I do understand the frustration of some who don't belong to these groups and I think in time something has to and will be done to better this. I just don't think the answer is turning established characters non-white and gay. I think changing the skin colour of a character isn't just a question of skin pigment, it also (usually) says something of the history of the character. That being said I'm not completely against a dark-skinned Bond.
Glad to see you’re not worried about it any more. I honestly can’t see it making any difference, I’m not sure what the issue is. Bond films don’t exactly tackle race issues, and there are plenty of posh guys who aren’t white around. If we could handle a fair haired Bond we can handle a black one.
A female Holmes? As long as it’s present day (Victorian times are obviously a bit of a different matter due to gender rights and attitudes at the time) I don’t see why not.
A female Holmes? As long as it’s present day (Victorian times are obviously a bit of a different matter due to gender rights and attitudes at the time) I don’t see why not.
Well, Elementary had a female Watson and that worked well.
Oh it’s a pretty vapid article, I’m not saying it’s a work of genius. But there’s little get upset about there, and anyone crying victim to perceived racist activity needs a long hard look at themselves.
I'm not a victim and I don't see any other members here presenting themselves as victims.
Well someone mentioned feeling like it’s okay to be racist against white people.
I'm only commenting on a tendency in this interview and in parts of media where white and straight is seen as not up-to-date or cool. I do understand the frustration of some who don't belong to these groups and I think in time something has to and will be done to better this. I just don't think the answer is turning established characters non-white and gay. I think changing the skin colour of a character isn't just a question of skin pigment, it also (usually) says something of the history of the character. That being said I'm not completely against a dark-skinned Bond.
Glad to see you’re not worried about it any more. I honestly can’t see it making any difference, I’m not sure what the issue is. Bond films don’t exactly tackle race issues, and there are plenty of posh guys who aren’t white around. If we could handle a fair haired Bond we can handle a black one.
A female Holmes? As long as it’s present day (Victorian times are obviously a bit of a different matter due to gender rights and attitudes at the time) I don’t see why not.
if it's set in the present day it changes quite a lot, but in general I'm a supporter of creating new heroes instead of changing exisiting ones's gender, skin colour and sexual orientation. Talking about racism agaisnt white people being seen as acceptable by some people, there is some merrit to this. I've seen black stand-up commedians talking about "white people are like this" and not always in positive terms and I wonder what the reaction would have been if the word White was changed to Black. I also remember my mother talking about when she visited Madagascar and people shouting the local word for "white" after her, something she found unpleasant.
I don't feel I suffer from this in any way, but I do think it's a tendency.
A female Holmes? As long as it’s present day (Victorian times are obviously a bit of a different matter due to gender rights and attitudes at the time) I don’t see why not.
Well, Elementary had a female Watson and that worked well.
Yes exactly. I think there might even be a Japanese one with a female Holmes but I’ve no idea how faithful that is. But I don’t see any major impediment in it.
There were some ads a while ago with Sarah Parish playing a very clearly Cumberbatch-style Holmes, and I was quite struck by how well it seemed to work!
I'm only commenting on a tendency in this interview and in parts of media where white and straight is seen as not up-to-date or cool. I do understand the frustration of some who don't belong to these groups and I think in time something has to and will be done to better this. I just don't think the answer is turning established characters non-white and gay. I think changing the skin colour of a character isn't just a question of skin pigment, it also (usually) says something of the history of the character. That being said I'm not completely against a dark-skinned Bond.
Glad to see you’re not worried about it any more. I honestly can’t see it making any difference, I’m not sure what the issue is. Bond films don’t exactly tackle race issues, and there are plenty of posh guys who aren’t white around. If we could handle a fair haired Bond we can handle a black one.
A female Holmes? As long as it’s present day (Victorian times are obviously a bit of a different matter due to gender rights and attitudes at the time) I don’t see why not.
if it's set in the present day it changes quite a lot,
The present day thing? It’s been done quite a lot recently, most notably with Sherlock and Elementary. They were both very recognisable.
but in general I'm a supporter of creating new heroes instead of changing exisiting ones's gender, skin colour and sexual orientation. Talking about racism agaisnt white people being seen as acceptable by some people, there is some merrit to this. I've seen black stand-up commedians talking about "white people are like this" and not always in positive terms and I wonder what the reaction would have been if the word White was changed to Black. I also remember my mother talking about when she visited Madagascar and people shouting the local word for "white" after her, something she found unpleasant.
I don't feel I suffer from this in any way, but I do think it's a tendency.
It’s really not equal if you’re not the minority who is being persecuted. Some comedians taking the mick out of white people isn’t remotely comparable to a lifetime of racism, let’s not pretend otherwise. Telling those jokes about black people would be a hell of a lot worse than them saying them about whites people because of the experiences of the people involved: it’s not equal at all. There’s no merit to it whatsoever, no.
You’ve already said you wouldn’t even mind a non-white Bond, so I don’t know what this is even about.
I probably wasn't clear about my opinion on present day Sherlock Holmes. What I ment was a present day Homles changes a lot when it comes to what is acceptable of changes. A lot is acceptable in Elementary ( a show a like a lot, in fact more than Sherlock) that I wouldn't except if it was set in the origional timline.
I do understand non-whites in general have a much worse time when it comes to racism then whites, BUT: does that make it okay? "They've been treated so badly, they have the right to be a little bit racist against us?" I'm not misquoting you, I'm just trying to point out how strange and illlgical that thougth is.
We're talking about an issue that's broader than the colour of the actor playing Bond, and issue that wass raised because of an interview with Lea Seyodoux. That's why we'retalking about this.
I probably wasn't clear about my opinion on present day Sherlock Holmes. What I ment was a present day Homles changes a lot when it comes to what is acceptable of changes. A lot is acceptable in Elementary ( a show a like a lot, in fact more than Sherlock) that I wouldn't except if it was set in the origional timline.
Sorry I don’t understand what you’re trying to say at all..? ‘Except if it was in the original timeline’? Except what?
I do understand non-whites in general have a much worse time when it comes to racism then whites, BUT: does that make it okay?
It means it can’t hurt white people anywhere near as the opposite would hurt black people. Do you feel aggrieved or persecuted in some way? You have no right to.
We're talking about an issue that's broader than the colour of the actor playing Bond, and issue that wass raised because of an interview with Lea Seyodoux. That's why we'retalking about this.
You seem to just be trying to justify why you don’t want to see black people in Bond films. I’m not really seeing anything more nuanced, I’m sorry.
I probably wasn't clear about my opinion on present day Sherlock Holmes. What I ment was a present day Homles changes a lot when it comes to what is acceptable of changes. A lot is acceptable in Elementary ( a show a like a lot, in fact more than Sherlock) that I wouldn't except if it was set in the origional timline.
Sorry I don’t understand what you’re trying to say at all..? ‘Except if it was in the original timeline’? Except what?
I do understand non-whites in general have a much worse time when it comes to racism then whites, BUT: does that make it okay?
It means it can’t hurt white people anywhere near as the opposite would hurt black people. Do you feel aggrieved or persecuted in some way? You have no right to.
We're talking about an issue that's broader than the colour of the actor playing Bond, and issue that wass raised because of an interview with Lea Seyodoux. That's why we'retalking about this.
You seem to just be trying to justify why you don’t want to see black people in Bond films. I’m not really seeing anything more nuanced, I’m sorry.
I meant "Accept", not "Except". Sorry.
Yes, it hurt people more if it's white person doing it to a black one than the other way round. But does it make black to white racism okay? If so, how much racism and how serious racism should white people accept? In my opinion racism is wrong, and if it's a black person behaving in a racist way to a white person doesn't make it okay.
When did I say I don't want black people in Bond movies? There's been black people in Bond film since DN and I've never had a problem with that. I'm glad you're sorry, because you got that part completely wrong.
I probably wasn't clear about my opinion on present day Sherlock Holmes. What I ment was a present day Homles changes a lot when it comes to what is acceptable of changes. A lot is acceptable in Elementary ( a show a like a lot, in fact more than Sherlock) that I wouldn't except if it was set in the origional timline.
Sorry I don’t understand what you’re trying to say at all..? ‘Except if it was in the original timeline’? Except what?
I do understand non-whites in general have a much worse time when it comes to racism then whites, BUT: does that make it okay?
It means it can’t hurt white people anywhere near as the opposite would hurt black people. Do you feel aggrieved or persecuted in some way? You have no right to.
We're talking about an issue that's broader than the colour of the actor playing Bond, and issue that wass raised because of an interview with Lea Seyodoux. That's why we'retalking about this.
You seem to just be trying to justify why you don’t want to see black people in Bond films. I’m not really seeing anything more nuanced, I’m sorry.
I meant "Accept", not "Except". Sorry.
Yes, it hurt people more if it's white person doing it to a black one than the other way round. But does it make black to white racism okay? If so, how much racism and how serious racism should white people accept? In my opinion racism is wrong, and if it's a black person behaving in a racist way to a white person doesn't make it okay.
When did I say I don't want black people in Bond movies? There's been black people in Bond film since DN and I've never had a problem with that. I'm glad you're sorry, because you got that part completely wrong.
Well you said you found it worrying just above, but you did change that thankfully. But what are you saying? You don’t like black people because they tell jokes you think are racist? You think it is justified for white people to feel like victims? I’m losing your thread here I’m afraid.
I should probably try to explain myself one more time. In my opinion the interview is an example of idea that if you make a movie nowadays and all of the main characters are white and straight, it's somehow wrong and irrelevant. If all movies were like that it would be a problem but I don't think it should automatically be like this. I also have problem changing white and/or straight characters with a history based on above mentioned idea.
I should probably try to explain myself one more time. In my opinion the interview is an example of idea that if you make a movie nowadays and all of the main characters are white and straight, it's somehow wrong and irrelevant.
On the whole, it is. Or rather there’s no excuse not to work towards embracing diversity where you can. A Bond movie should have no trouble doing that at all.
If all movies were like that it would be a problem but I don't think it should automatically be like this.
There’s no reason for it not to be the default, no. All movies should be like that, unless there’s a clear story reason for them not to be. It makes people better.
Movies, especially massive audience-pleasing ones like these, have a responsibility to educate the audience in some way. If you don’t think that’s true then ask yourself why Bond doesn’t smoke any more.
I also have problem changing white and/or straight characters with a history based on above mentioned idea.
Okay, and we tried to explain why you think this, and you started talking about how awful it is when black people tell jokes about white people as some kind of a justification, which suggests to me more of an axe to grind than in-depth logical reasoning.
"we tried to explain why you think this". Do you see any problems with that sentence? I hope so.
Do you still belive I'm against black people in Bond films, or do you hang on to that idea based on …….what?
I movie should try to reflect the society it is set in, absolutely. The Bond series has done soo, for example by hiring the two excelent actors Naomi Harries and Jeffrey Wright. What I do have problems with is established characters changing sexual orientation based on an idea that having white and straight main characters is wrong.
I think I'll call it a night now. It's late.
Maybe slightly off topic, but I notice the viewing figures for the female ‘dr Who’ (name?) are the lowest since it returned in 2005, as to bond, mess with a winning formula at your peril, by winning I mean it’s still relevant after all these years, and that’s a win, no?
Don’t be ridiculous. When they brought it back they messed with the formula quite hugely, and it was a massive success. Don’t draw false correlations without any evidence.
Sorry you misunderstood my post, Its ok though, IQ isn’t everything x
NTTD production designer Mark Tildesley talks to a guy, whose Dad he knows, about his work (his not the Dad's) on Danny Boyle's Bond25 and NTTD in this 52min video interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCk4IQfupdY
The NTTD and Boyle B25 work is talked about at 38 minutes.
Tildesley says he worked on Bond25/NTTD for 2.5-years in total (suggesting that Boyle's involvement was a lot earlier, actually during 2017, months before anyone knew) and when it did stop they were building sets, including a Russian Gulag in the mountains of Canada and they had a 350-foot rocket on the Bond stage. Wow.
At almost 40 minutes he starts talking about NTTD's set explosion mishap, which he says involved a small set, but because they placed the set within the 'tank' part of the Bond stage the closeness of the walls directed the force of the explosion upward and that is what damaged the stage's walls and roof. He goes on to talk about the M office set which is being reused from previous films but that the leather back to M's door has been changed, and it has a new painting chosen by Ralph Fiennes.
I guess someday we will get the real scoop on Boyle's leaving the production. Apparently, it appears Boyle was out earlier than the public had been led to believe. This is not based on any actual information, but for some reason I just get this feeling that Boyle was looking for a way out and was just never entirely comfortable with the idea of directing a huge film like Bond 25.
I guess someday we will get the real scoop on Boyle's leaving the production. Apparently, it appears Boyle was out earlier than the public had been led to believe. This is not based on any actual information, but for some reason I just get this feeling that Boyle was looking for a way out and was just never entirely comfortable with the idea of directing a huge film like Bond 25.
It’s a very bad thing for your career to just walk away, Boyle knows that, he’s shrewd and very talented, I definately think he dug his heels in about something and was shown the door.
I guess someday we will get the real scoop on Boyle's leaving the production. Apparently, it appears Boyle was out earlier than the public had been led to believe. This is not based on any actual information, but for some reason I just get this feeling that Boyle was looking for a way out and was just never entirely comfortable with the idea of directing a huge film like Bond 25.
It’s a very bad thing for your career to just walk away, Boyle knows that, he’s shrewd and very talented, I definately think he dug his heels in about something and was shown the door.
Whatever it was, I would imagine it must have been pretty big.....and if it was a minor point, a pox on them all because if Boyle and the Producers don't part ways we would be debating our opinions of Bond 25 for the past 6 months instead of wondering when and where we will ever see Bond 25....
NTTD production designer Mark Tildesley talks to a guy, whose Dad he knows, about his work (his not the Dad's) on Danny Boyle's Bond25 and NTTD in this 52min video interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCk4IQfupdY
Tildesley says he worked on Bond25/NTTD for 2.5-years in total (suggesting that Boyle's involvement was a lot earlier, actually during 2017, months before anyone knew) and when it did stop they were building sets, including a Russian Gulag in the mountains of Canada and they had a 350-foot rocket on the Bond stage. Wow.
Comments
. Risico.
Gun In My Hand
Never Dream of Dying
I'm not a victim and I don't see any other members here presenting themselves as victims. I'm only commenting on a tendency in this interview and in parts of media where white and straight is seen as not up-to-date or cool. I do understand the frustration of some who don't belong to these groups and I think in time something has to and will be done to better this. I just don't think the answer is turning established characters non-white and gay. I think changing the skin colour of a character isn't just a question of skin pigment, it also (usually) says something of the history of the character. That being said I'm not completely against a dark-skinned Bond. A gay or bi Bond on the other hand is ridiculous. These changes can work in some franchises and others not. I wouldn't mind a female, non-straight or non-white lead in the Mission Impossible movies when Tom Cruise quits, since the lead has no real history and little character. A character like Sherlock Holmes is on the other side of the scale, lots of character and history.
I think the solution is making new big-budget and high quality characters with leads who are not white or straight. It's best for the general movie audience who get more variety and I belive it's best for the non-white and non-straight to see people like them can be movie heroes in their own right and not stand on the shoulders of/relying on existing characters.
Don’t be ridiculous. When they brought it back they messed with the formula quite hugely, and it was a massive success. Don’t draw false correlations without any evidence.
Well someone mentioned feeling like it’s okay to be racist against white people.
Glad to see you’re not worried about it any more. I honestly can’t see it making any difference, I’m not sure what the issue is. Bond films don’t exactly tackle race issues, and there are plenty of posh guys who aren’t white around. If we could handle a fair haired Bond we can handle a black one.
A female Holmes? As long as it’s present day (Victorian times are obviously a bit of a different matter due to gender rights and attitudes at the time) I don’t see why not.
Well, Elementary had a female Watson and that worked well.
if it's set in the present day it changes quite a lot, but in general I'm a supporter of creating new heroes instead of changing exisiting ones's gender, skin colour and sexual orientation. Talking about racism agaisnt white people being seen as acceptable by some people, there is some merrit to this. I've seen black stand-up commedians talking about "white people are like this" and not always in positive terms and I wonder what the reaction would have been if the word White was changed to Black. I also remember my mother talking about when she visited Madagascar and people shouting the local word for "white" after her, something she found unpleasant.
I don't feel I suffer from this in any way, but I do think it's a tendency.
Yes exactly. I think there might even be a Japanese one with a female Holmes but I’ve no idea how faithful that is. But I don’t see any major impediment in it.
There were some ads a while ago with Sarah Parish playing a very clearly Cumberbatch-style Holmes, and I was quite struck by how well it seemed to work!
The present day thing? It’s been done quite a lot recently, most notably with Sherlock and Elementary. They were both very recognisable.
It’s really not equal if you’re not the minority who is being persecuted. Some comedians taking the mick out of white people isn’t remotely comparable to a lifetime of racism, let’s not pretend otherwise. Telling those jokes about black people would be a hell of a lot worse than them saying them about whites people because of the experiences of the people involved: it’s not equal at all. There’s no merit to it whatsoever, no.
You’ve already said you wouldn’t even mind a non-white Bond, so I don’t know what this is even about.
I do understand non-whites in general have a much worse time when it comes to racism then whites, BUT: does that make it okay? "They've been treated so badly, they have the right to be a little bit racist against us?" I'm not misquoting you, I'm just trying to point out how strange and illlgical that thougth is.
We're talking about an issue that's broader than the colour of the actor playing Bond, and issue that wass raised because of an interview with Lea Seyodoux. That's why we'retalking about this.
Sorry I don’t understand what you’re trying to say at all..? ‘Except if it was in the original timeline’? Except what?
It means it can’t hurt white people anywhere near as the opposite would hurt black people. Do you feel aggrieved or persecuted in some way? You have no right to.
You seem to just be trying to justify why you don’t want to see black people in Bond films. I’m not really seeing anything more nuanced, I’m sorry.
I meant "Accept", not "Except". Sorry.
Yes, it hurt people more if it's white person doing it to a black one than the other way round. But does it make black to white racism okay? If so, how much racism and how serious racism should white people accept? In my opinion racism is wrong, and if it's a black person behaving in a racist way to a white person doesn't make it okay.
When did I say I don't want black people in Bond movies? There's been black people in Bond film since DN and I've never had a problem with that. I'm glad you're sorry, because you got that part completely wrong.
Well you said you found it worrying just above, but you did change that thankfully. But what are you saying? You don’t like black people because they tell jokes you think are racist? You think it is justified for white people to feel like victims? I’m losing your thread here I’m afraid.
On the whole, it is. Or rather there’s no excuse not to work towards embracing diversity where you can. A Bond movie should have no trouble doing that at all.
There’s no reason for it not to be the default, no. All movies should be like that, unless there’s a clear story reason for them not to be. It makes people better.
Movies, especially massive audience-pleasing ones like these, have a responsibility to educate the audience in some way. If you don’t think that’s true then ask yourself why Bond doesn’t smoke any more.
Okay, and we tried to explain why you think this, and you started talking about how awful it is when black people tell jokes about white people as some kind of a justification, which suggests to me more of an axe to grind than in-depth logical reasoning.
Do you still belive I'm against black people in Bond films, or do you hang on to that idea based on …….what?
I movie should try to reflect the society it is set in, absolutely. The Bond series has done soo, for example by hiring the two excelent actors Naomi Harries and Jeffrey Wright. What I do have problems with is established characters changing sexual orientation based on an idea that having white and straight main characters is wrong.
I think I'll call it a night now. It's late.
Sorry you misunderstood my post, Its ok though, IQ isn’t everything x
. Risico.
Gun In My Hand
Never Dream of Dying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCk4IQfupdY
The NTTD and Boyle B25 work is talked about at 38 minutes.
Tildesley says he worked on Bond25/NTTD for 2.5-years in total (suggesting that Boyle's involvement was a lot earlier, actually during 2017, months before anyone knew) and when it did stop they were building sets, including a Russian Gulag in the mountains of Canada and they had a 350-foot rocket on the Bond stage. Wow.
At almost 40 minutes he starts talking about NTTD's set explosion mishap, which he says involved a small set, but because they placed the set within the 'tank' part of the Bond stage the closeness of the walls directed the force of the explosion upward and that is what damaged the stage's walls and roof. He goes on to talk about the M office set which is being reused from previous films but that the leather back to M's door has been changed, and it has a new painting chosen by Ralph Fiennes.
(Update 12 May 12.30h Zulu) In case 350 feet doesn't mean much to people, NASA's Saturn V rocket that sent the astronauts to the Moon was 363 feet tall.
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/rocketpark/saturn_v.html
Elon Musk's Falcon 9 rocket is only 230ft long.
https://www.spacex.com/falcon9
The Bond stage itself is 374ft long, only 20ft longer than Boyle's rocket!
https://www.pinewoodgroup.com/studios/pinewood-studios/stages-facilities/stages/007-stage
It’s a very bad thing for your career to just walk away, Boyle knows that, he’s shrewd and very talented, I definately think he dug his heels in about something and was shown the door.
. Risico.
Gun In My Hand
Never Dream of Dying
Odd choice for an ex-Army officer.
Whatever it was, I would imagine it must have been pretty big.....and if it was a minor point, a pox on them all because if Boyle and the Producers don't part ways we would be debating our opinions of Bond 25 for the past 6 months instead of wondering when and where we will ever see Bond 25....
https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/rory-kinnear-returning-as-tanner-in-james-bond-no-time-to-die/video/42e065d37a092057ad19df939b1bc9b2
Don't worry, Rory- it isn't.
So that's what that means!
Although he hasn't had much to laugh about, poor chap. He wrote in yesterday's Guardian about losing his sister to Covid-19.
https://twitter.com/007/status/1262442830435319811?s=20
Excluding the Rami Malek birthday pic of Safin, this is the first NTTD @007 account tweet since the 5 May Q picture tweet.