It's a fine line - and the style is "cro magnon" )
I don't know that it is a fine line so much as in politicizing it, people want to read it that way to fit their agenda -- and the current agenda is to see transgression in nearly everything unless the situation is so literal, no critical thinking's expected.
It's clear in the scenes usually accused -- Pussy Galore and Pat Fearing -- that the women ultimately not only approve but are complicit. There's merely the notion that they are either reluctant or play hard to get in some fashion initially, but Bond ultimately reads their motives correctly.
Whether we like to admit it or not, playing hard to get is not an unknown tactic in the fine art of seduction. Certainly, the behavior has been studied in both animal and human interactions, and in the past when society may have frowned more on people being open and obvious sexually, more common than today.
Further, what's fascinating is that in order to see only rape, the women and their motives must be dismissed as immaterial. It's all about what Bond does, and apparently, the women are reduced to virtual non-entity, merely being the victims. They can have no other agenda or expectation other than to be the victim in order to fit the argument's point of view.
It's also pretty easy to get into a slippery slope if one ignores context. Bond could just as easily be accused of rape for getting involved with anyone he works with, as we could argue he uses his institutional authority to coerce women to sleep with him out of fear of reprisal, especially if they are in subordinate positions in the organization. Heck, we don't even need to go that far. If he's a white male in a patriarchal western society, then we could argue that any time he seduces a female he is somehow using his white male privilege, doubly so if she is a woman of color because now he's a racist, too. By this way of thinking, he's been sexually harassing Moneypenny for years.
But then we could flip the roles, too. Is Xenia Onatopp attempting to rape Bond when she forces herself on him in the sauna in GE? He draws his gun initially, after all, and then she kisses him and uses her body to stimulate him. He responds, but is he doing so out of fear? Coercion? She even seems to be getting off sexually as they fight -- he's not. The scene ends with him telling her no at gunpoint. Was this a sexual assault we just witnessed? Was Bond essentially raped?
Other scenes can be analyzed out of context, too. The psychologist in the same film -- is she raping Bond by using her position over his career to coerce him to have sex with her? After all, if she doesn't sign off on his medical evaluation, he has to be behind a desk. Could we say the same thing about the physician in DAD? Remember, we're ignoring the victim's motivations and only looking at the alleged aggressor in order to substantiate our claim. What he wants is meaningless.
Was Ruby sexually assaulting Bond when she chose to write her room number under his kilt and on his bare leg, knowing it would also sexually excite him? After all, she didn't ask first and he didn't give her permission to -- she acted uninvited. What about when Grace Jones' May Day gets on top of an obviously uncomfortable Bond in AVTAK to take charge of their sexual encounter -- which he the next day even remarks was in some way uncomfortable before he finally got off. We take it as a joke, but could it be read that Bond felt physically violated rather than merely enjoyed his sexual encounter?
Whether the style is cro magnon or not is a matter of taste. Certainly, the old school masculinity that Connery brings to bear is in sharp contrast to the general expectations among mainstream western cultures today of just what a man is supposed to be -- if there really is an easily identifiable definition anymore. I find it consistent with the general mores of the day -- Bond is an escapist spy and no angel, and in the same way people have all sorts of escapist fantasies about all sorts of things, including ironically rape, he might have fit the bill for many, then and now. But I think that's a far cry from labeling him a rapist.
It's all good mate, just winding you up for using "cro magnon" -{
{[] I basically hijacked the response for my jeremiad.
I would suggest using the word sexual assulted. That can mean a guy grabs your ass on a train or touches your boob without convent and with a clear motive on the other end. You would be amazed how much that happens. Like, really. All the time.
I think in the end Bond has often been super pervy but much of it feeds into a fantasy that women are ice princesses who are hard to get and somehow Bond melted their hearts when no (or few)other men could. This is the case with Pussy. Ice princess held down and kissed till she melted and fell (or was pushed) into James bed.
Again, you can watch these movies and see flaws, just be aware and enjoy the movie.
I agree that sexually assaulted is likely the more accurate word but used rape because it was first posited by others (and has been for some time -- just google the subject and there are all sorts of places where people toss the term around in reference to Bond).
But if we're going to view everything through the lens of rape culture, I would say it's time we start moving away from the rhetoric that it's just a man-to-woman situation. That's inaccurate. Like, really. All the time. It silences discussion on both women-to-man sexual assault and same-sex sexual assault and is part of the reason such goes underreported.
When I was younger, I had my ass grabbed by women in clubs. I've been kissed out of the blue by drunken ones, too. Many men have had the experience of not being interested in making love but having a woman encourage him physically nonetheless, even if he says no, and assuming his physical reaction is permission. If a woman is in a position of power over a man and uses it to get sex, we're still reluctant to say sexual assault happened. This includes when a female teacher takes advantage of her underage students or threatens divorce in order to divide the assets or take away their children. In such situations, we assume the man is supposed to always want it, and he gets what he wants whatever the situation, so therefore these are not physical violations.
I say all this not to just illustrate how narrowly skewed the public discussion on rape and sexual assault is but also how I don't take the concepts lightly. That's why when I say Bond is not raping women in those scenes, at least in how they're presented, I'm not approaching it lightly.
One could just as easily say with Pussy it's the Cinderella/Snow White/Prince Charming fantasy. That is, she's Cinderella/Snow White until he comes along. It's not so much about her being the ice princess as it is about him being Prince Charming, a positive fantasy many people embrace. It doesn't have to be super pervy at all, but just the adult rather than the juvenile version, where once again the complexities of human seduction are brought to bear (playing hard to get, etc.).
Lastly, you can watch the movies and see how the filmmakers actually intend the scene rather than co-opting it to support an agenda, just be aware and enjoy the movie.
I would suggest using the word sexual assulted. That can mean a guy grabs your ass on a train or touches your boob without convent and with a clear motive on the other end. You would be amazed how much that happens. Like, really. All the time.
I think in the end Bond has often been super pervy but much of it feeds into a fantasy that women are ice princesses who are hard to get and somehow Bond melted their hearts when no (or few)other men could. This is the case with Pussy. Ice princess held down and kissed till she melted and fell (or was pushed) into James bed.
Again, you can watch these movies and see flaws, just be aware and enjoy the movie.
I agree that sexually assaulted is likely the more accurate word but used rape because it was first posited by others (and has been for some time -- just google the subject and there are all sorts of places where people toss the term around in reference to Bond).
But if we're going to view everything through the lens of rape culture, I would say it's time we start moving away from the rhetoric that it's just a man-to-woman situation. That's inaccurate. Like, really. All the time. It silences discussion on both women-to-man sexual assault and same-sex sexual assault and is part of the reason such goes underreported.
When I was younger, I had my ass grabbed by women in clubs. I've been kissed out of the blue by drunken ones, too. Many men have had the experience of not being interested in making love but having a woman encourage him physically nonetheless, even if he says no, and assuming his physical reaction is permission. If a woman is in a position of power over a man and uses it to get sex, we're still reluctant to say sexual assault happened. This includes when a female teacher takes advantage of her underage students or threatens divorce in order to divide the assets or take away their children. In such situations, we assume the man is supposed to always want it, and he gets what he wants whatever the situation, so therefore these are not physical violations.
I say all this not to just illustrate how narrowly skewed the public discussion on rape and sexual assault is but also how I don't take the concepts lightly. That's why when I say Bond is not raping women in those scenes, at least in how they're presented, I'm not approaching it lightly.
One could just as easily say with Pussy it's the Cinderella/Snow White/Prince Charming fantasy. That is, she's Cinderella/Snow White until he comes along. It's not so much about her being the ice princess as it is about him being Prince Charming, a positive fantasy many people embrace. It doesn't have to be super pervy at all, but just the adult rather than the juvenile version, where once again the complexities of human seduction are brought to bear (playing hard to get, etc.).
Lastly, you can watch the movies and see how the filmmakers actually intend the scene rather than co-opting it to support an agenda, just be aware and enjoy the movie.
I fully agree here.
And also, I once had a girl grab my a*s (deeply) without warning... as she was quite attractive, I might have liked it except that I had a girlfriend at the time, and she was present. Not cool. And once when I was 22 I was at a sleepover party and got pretty drunk because I didn't have to drive home, and a non-drinking young lady for whom I had no interest in showed up naked at my bed as I was about to go to sleep and jammed her tongue in my mouth. I was drunk enough to not resist, yet too drunk to perform the task at hand. Good- I would have regretted it the next morning.
Memories.... 8-)
I think many, if not all, of us have had these sorts of experiences. As men, though, we're assumed to always enjoy it because, you know, we just want sex all the time and take it whenever convenient, and it's never about anyone threatening, manipulating, or assaulting us.
It's also reduced to a simple binary for men. We either want it or we don't. There's never any of the nuance that our bodies might want it while our hearts or minds don't. Or that we might regret it while it's happening or feel guilt later. That we might have conflicting emotions. If we say no or are somehow sensitive to the circumstances or even talk about such, that's a comment on our masculinity -- and we're responsible for that, too, because we live in a patriarchy and always define the terms. Any emotional complexity is beyond us, and we're merely sniffing around trying to get it any way that we can.
That translates into popular culture. Bond, of course, is hyper-masculine and oversexed, and he exists as an extreme figure in an escapist adventure. But then so do the women in Bond's world. With rare exception -- Moneypenny, arguably -- they're not the girl next door, any more than Bond or the male villains are the guy next door. Yet the earliest Bond films still tried to remain rooted in recognizable motivations than are far more complex than they're usually given credit for.
Thus, women can play hard to get. They can be manipulative. They can be emotionally damaged. They can be arrogant, narcissistic, and man-hating. They can be loving and self sacrificing. They can be nurturing. They can be giving and endlessly loyal. However, given that Bond operates in a darker world, despite the humor and glamour, it stands to reason he's probably not going to run into a parade of sweet and well-adjusted women (or men) -- these are the innocents he's trying to protect.
So, Pussy Galore can, in fact, be attracted to Bond, bisexual and partially in denial and partially wanting him to work for it. Pat Fearing can be a physical woman who understands her sexuality and uses it but doesn't want to feel cheapened by merely giving it up immediately to a handsome if cocky man. Both may want a circumstance to dictate how and when it's appropriate and not just some agreement as though they're negotiating a lease. There can be a thrill to the chase and a satisfaction from being won over. Such women do exist in the world, you know. They're not merely extensions of male fantasy. And Bond could be worldly enough to recognize this.
All this is closer to how the scenes play out. Neither may suit the simplified framework about male-female courtship that allows for the sorts of analyses that undergird master's degree theses, but that is okay.
Lord, I never said men were less capable of emotions or being taken advantage of. At least 1 in 10 men are sexually in their lifetime (a static for the US.) I am sure this number is much higher. I never understand why saying a dude is being a creep means I hate men. I don't. I love men. And the beauty of feminism is men do not have to be "macho hound dogs" they can be literally whatever.
That section on women being allowed to be damaged and manipulative. That just breaks my heart.
I think it is safe to say you are not seeing my point. So sorry if my "agenda" is offensive. On to something else.
Lord, I never said men were less capable of emotions or being taken advantage of. At least 1 in 10 men are sexually in their lifetime (a static for the US.) I am sure this number is much higher. I never understand why saying a dude is being a creep means I hate men. I don't. I love men. And the beauty of feminism is men do not have to be "macho hound dogs" they can be literally whatever.
That section on women being allowed to be damaged and manipulative. That just breaks my heart.
I think it is safe to say you are not seeing my point. So sorry if my "agenda" is offensive. On to something else.
Lord, I never said you did. What you did do is confine your examples to only men sexually assaulting women, including putatively Bond. No one said you hate men, either. You didn't offend me, so no need to apologize. My concern is that your argument is weak, not your agenda is offensive.
The beauty of seeing a text for what it is is it's easy to defend an argument.
Fleming literally writes of women in his Bond books as being damaged and manipulative. Tracy Bond certainly fits that mold, at least until late in the story. The films merely carry on in that tradition. These aren't the only qualities that define them, nor the men in the stories, either, who can be the same. And there are no shortage of damaged and manipulative people in the world, including women.
I think it is safe to say you are not seeing my point. I agree. You should move on.
Anyway, re Spectre's bomb plot, methinks that dates it too. If they tried that today, chances are the response would be: 'Okay, we're tied up with Iran and North Korea at the moment, we're going to have to put you on hold...'
If that term is going to be used, then I was wombsplained to, and if I'm a minority and you're white, you're whitesplaining to me. We can keep going with the irrelevant terms to try to silence the speaker.
Rape and sexual assault are not about the sex or gender of the person expressing the opinion -- if we are defining it that way, that's exactly the problem I'm pointing out.
If that term is going to be used, then I was wombsplained to, and if I'm a minority and you're white, you're whitesplaining to me. We can keep going with the irrelevant terms to try to silence the speaker.
Rape and sexual assault are not about the sex or gender of the person expressing the opinion -- if we are defining it that way, that's exactly the problem I'm pointing out.
I think we do not understand each other at all. This: "Rape and sexual assault are not about the sex or gender of the person expressing the opinion -- if we are defining it that way, that's exactly the problem I'm pointing out." is 100% correct and feminist as hell. Sorry to point that out but it is. This is what I believe completely. The reality of life is anyone can hurt anyone. I believe the word "rape" was brought up by another poster, I will have to check that, so if you take issue with the suggestion that Bond was raping people you can take that up with someone else. All I said was consent is a clear thing to understand.
It is Bullshit (for a lack of a better word) that men can be attacked or beaten up and they have to be silent about it because people will think they are gay (nothing wrong with that) or "weak." It is BS that women can assault women, men, children, the old, etc but it is not spoken about. It is a subject people have to be quiet about and at the same time it upsets people when you see something and say "makes me uncomfortable." Yes, the scene in NSNA and GF do make me uncomfortable.
My issue is when Bond is being sketchy is not that people sit and think "humm... maybe Pussy is conflicted and then decides she wants to do it with Bond." This could totally be the case. My issue is the moments leading up to it when she is fighting back. I seriously doubt you would do that to a person. Again, I love the movie, I can watch it but still think "maybe that is not really the way to go about it." I do not see holding someone down as seduction. I see that as restraint. So I am not really sure what you take issue with with my thoughts on this but this is what I think. She can totally want Bond, but holding her down was not awesome.
The same can be said with NSNA. Bond giving D a massage it is super creepy. Yes, she could be one of those people who gets off on being touched by strangers. That is a thing. If that is your thing, cool. I just think it was sleazy. I literally see nothing wrong with saying something was not how you would want your son/daughter to act/be treated. I am sure many people would not be thrilled if they thought a doctor or someone trained was touching them only to find out that was not the case. But, someone touching you without consent- not rape- it is screwed up. It is screwed up if you are a man and a lady slaps your ass, or if you are girl and another girl does it to you.
And yes, I do think the world (all genders) have a fixation on "sexily damaged" people. *I am guilt of it* So Fleming writes about crazy people who I, yes, see as "ice queens" or "ice kings." I mean that as in people who are seen as needing saving/ fixing on some level and the idea is that one person can fix/save them. It means the person doing the "melting" is special. People want to feel special and different. So that is what I think Fleming does, he makes Bond a "fixer." Someone who can turn the bad girls good by showing them love. No I do not think this is a stupid or bad point. I think it is interesting that do many people have this fixation.
As far as agendas... I think you are being condescending. Honestly, I think you are in a mood to fight with someone and the internet is an excellent way to belittle people (who don't even totally disagree with you )
this used to be a nice thread about an unloved fakeBond film
re Pussy Galore - in the book, Bond converts a lesbian. Fleming doesn't write this bit persuasively, mostly because he introduces the character about 20 pages from the end, but that's what we're supposed to believe happens
the filmmakers were scared to admit lesbians exist, so they had to come up with some other way of showing Pussy was not interested in sex with Bond, yet ends up in the life-raft with him by the last scene anyway. What the filmmakers came up with is rather more disturbing than just admitting lesbians exist.
But there was one other reason for that scene: Honour Blackman was known at the time for doing martial arts moves every week on The Avengers. She was a big name to have as the next Bondgirl, with her own set of fans who would expect to see her do that judo flip thing.
I do not see holding someone down as seduction. I see that as restraint. So I am not really sure what you take issue with with my thoughts on this but this is what I think. She can totally want Bond, but holding her down was not awesome.
Okay, so maybe you just don't understand Judo (Pussy's style). When Bond was pinning her down there are two or three easy ways any Judoka could have gotten out of that, especially with the sloppy way he was doing it. Why didn't she employ them?
See now? :x
I'm uncomfortable with the way this thread is heading. It's becoming personal and I'm asking that this stop. It's perfectly possible to argue one's position impersonally, even on sensitive subjects.
It is BS that women can assault women, men, children, the old, etc but it is not spoken about.
No, it is not. I'm not going into details, but I worked for many years (32 to be exact) in psychiatry and saw/was involved with many, many cases where women assaulted women, men, children, the old, and it was not spoken about- the reasons for that varied. This was well outnumbered by the cases where men did the assaulting, but I don't think that is the point here.
I'm uncomfortable with the way this thread is heading. It's becoming personal and I'm asking that this stop. It's perfectly possible to argue one's position impersonally, even on sensitive subjects.
Yeah, for me it's about (hopefully, from my POV) correcting possibly faulty perception, nothing personal at all.
I'm uncomfortable with the way this thread is heading. It's becoming personal and I'm asking that this stop. It's perfectly possible to argue one's position impersonally, even on sensitive subjects.
It is BS that women can assault women, men, children, the old, etc but it is not spoken about.
No, it is not. I'm not going into details, but I worked for many years (32 to be exact) in psychiatry and saw/was involved with many, many cases where women assaulted women, men, children, the old, and it was not spoken about- the reasons for that varied. This was well outnumbered by the cases where men did the assaulting, but I don't think that is the point here.
I was a sexual assault counselor for many years. What I meant by saying it was BS was that it is horrible and terrible that all of those groups of people can be targeted (and by one another) and it happens often but is not reported or taken seriously.
Wow this thread certainly turned down a different path since I last looked in! Some of these posts are just highly offensive and totally unbelievable
"It's better than Die Another Day, and maybe Quantum Of Solace"
WHAT??? Maybe better than qos ?:)
I'm marking your card Wadsy!
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
Going with the word "better" in the thread's title, I think NSNA did a better job featuring Monte Carlo and the French Riviera than GE. In fact, NSNA became a superior travelogue over TB. Comparing NSNA with both TB the novel and the movie, it was a nice treat for the viewers to have the action move from the Bahamas and then go over to Southern France for the 2nd act as mentioned, and then modifying Largo's estate of Palmyra to a medieval citadel in North Africa for the 3rd act.
Has the chase sequence been mentioned? Motorcycle chases through narrow alleyways and stairs were still pretty novel at the time, and the RM film that came a few years before NSNA, Escape to Athena comes to mind, as well as Hanover Street with Harrison Ford...but NSNA had Bond doing it many years before TND, SF and the Bourne movies. The only thing about the NSNA chase is that there's a less-than-ideal look to it, maybe due to editing or even the actual camera work, but on a technical basis in regard to the actual stunts, it was an impressive chase sequence.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
Eh.... No. Well, OK maybe Die Another Day, but definitely not other weak Bond films like DAF, TND, TWINE and QOS. That's just my opinion. It all comes down to which is more tolerable, so I could potentially see NSNA over DAD, but it's very close.
Going with the word "better" in the thread's title, I think NSNA did a better job featuring Monte Carlo and the French Riviera than GE. In fact, NSNA became a superior travelogue over TB. Comparing NSNA with both TB the novel and the movie, it was a nice treat for the viewers to have the action move from the Bahamas and then go over to Southern France for the 2nd act as mentioned, and then modifying Largo's estate of Palmyra to a medieval citadel in North Africa for the 3rd act.
Has the chase sequence been mentioned? Motorcycle chases through narrow alleyways and stairs were still pretty novel at the time, and the RM film that came a few years before NSNA, Escape to Athena comes to mind, as well as Hanover Street with Harrison Ford...but NSNA had Bond doing it many years before TND, SF and the Bourne movies. The only thing about the NSNA chase is that there's a less-than-ideal look to it, maybe due to editing or even the actual camera work, but on a technical basis in regard to the actual stunts, it was an impressive chase sequence.
I always liked the chase as well. Good length, doesn't drag on too long. Connery looks great in the helmet and dinner suit, kind of an iconic Bondian image.
Comments
But if we're going to view everything through the lens of rape culture, I would say it's time we start moving away from the rhetoric that it's just a man-to-woman situation. That's inaccurate. Like, really. All the time. It silences discussion on both women-to-man sexual assault and same-sex sexual assault and is part of the reason such goes underreported.
When I was younger, I had my ass grabbed by women in clubs. I've been kissed out of the blue by drunken ones, too. Many men have had the experience of not being interested in making love but having a woman encourage him physically nonetheless, even if he says no, and assuming his physical reaction is permission. If a woman is in a position of power over a man and uses it to get sex, we're still reluctant to say sexual assault happened. This includes when a female teacher takes advantage of her underage students or threatens divorce in order to divide the assets or take away their children. In such situations, we assume the man is supposed to always want it, and he gets what he wants whatever the situation, so therefore these are not physical violations.
I say all this not to just illustrate how narrowly skewed the public discussion on rape and sexual assault is but also how I don't take the concepts lightly. That's why when I say Bond is not raping women in those scenes, at least in how they're presented, I'm not approaching it lightly.
One could just as easily say with Pussy it's the Cinderella/Snow White/Prince Charming fantasy. That is, she's Cinderella/Snow White until he comes along. It's not so much about her being the ice princess as it is about him being Prince Charming, a positive fantasy many people embrace. It doesn't have to be super pervy at all, but just the adult rather than the juvenile version, where once again the complexities of human seduction are brought to bear (playing hard to get, etc.).
Lastly, you can watch the movies and see how the filmmakers actually intend the scene rather than co-opting it to support an agenda, just be aware and enjoy the movie.
Well played, sir.
And also, I once had a girl grab my a*s (deeply) without warning... as she was quite attractive, I might have liked it except that I had a girlfriend at the time, and she was present. Not cool. And once when I was 22 I was at a sleepover party and got pretty drunk because I didn't have to drive home, and a non-drinking young lady for whom I had no interest in showed up naked at my bed as I was about to go to sleep and jammed her tongue in my mouth. I was drunk enough to not resist, yet too drunk to perform the task at hand. Good- I would have regretted it the next morning.
Memories.... 8-)
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
It's also reduced to a simple binary for men. We either want it or we don't. There's never any of the nuance that our bodies might want it while our hearts or minds don't. Or that we might regret it while it's happening or feel guilt later. That we might have conflicting emotions. If we say no or are somehow sensitive to the circumstances or even talk about such, that's a comment on our masculinity -- and we're responsible for that, too, because we live in a patriarchy and always define the terms. Any emotional complexity is beyond us, and we're merely sniffing around trying to get it any way that we can.
That translates into popular culture. Bond, of course, is hyper-masculine and oversexed, and he exists as an extreme figure in an escapist adventure. But then so do the women in Bond's world. With rare exception -- Moneypenny, arguably -- they're not the girl next door, any more than Bond or the male villains are the guy next door. Yet the earliest Bond films still tried to remain rooted in recognizable motivations than are far more complex than they're usually given credit for.
Thus, women can play hard to get. They can be manipulative. They can be emotionally damaged. They can be arrogant, narcissistic, and man-hating. They can be loving and self sacrificing. They can be nurturing. They can be giving and endlessly loyal. However, given that Bond operates in a darker world, despite the humor and glamour, it stands to reason he's probably not going to run into a parade of sweet and well-adjusted women (or men) -- these are the innocents he's trying to protect.
So, Pussy Galore can, in fact, be attracted to Bond, bisexual and partially in denial and partially wanting him to work for it. Pat Fearing can be a physical woman who understands her sexuality and uses it but doesn't want to feel cheapened by merely giving it up immediately to a handsome if cocky man. Both may want a circumstance to dictate how and when it's appropriate and not just some agreement as though they're negotiating a lease. There can be a thrill to the chase and a satisfaction from being won over. Such women do exist in the world, you know. They're not merely extensions of male fantasy. And Bond could be worldly enough to recognize this.
All this is closer to how the scenes play out. Neither may suit the simplified framework about male-female courtship that allows for the sorts of analyses that undergird master's degree theses, but that is okay.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
That section on women being allowed to be damaged and manipulative. That just breaks my heart.
I think it is safe to say you are not seeing my point. So sorry if my "agenda" is offensive. On to something else.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
The beauty of seeing a text for what it is is it's easy to defend an argument.
Fleming literally writes of women in his Bond books as being damaged and manipulative. Tracy Bond certainly fits that mold, at least until late in the story. The films merely carry on in that tradition. These aren't the only qualities that define them, nor the men in the stories, either, who can be the same. And there are no shortage of damaged and manipulative people in the world, including women.
I think it is safe to say you are not seeing my point. I agree. You should move on.
"Better make that two."
Anyway, re Spectre's bomb plot, methinks that dates it too. If they tried that today, chances are the response would be: 'Okay, we're tied up with Iran and North Korea at the moment, we're going to have to put you on hold...'
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Rape and sexual assault are not about the sex or gender of the person expressing the opinion -- if we are defining it that way, that's exactly the problem I'm pointing out.
It is Bullshit (for a lack of a better word) that men can be attacked or beaten up and they have to be silent about it because people will think they are gay (nothing wrong with that) or "weak." It is BS that women can assault women, men, children, the old, etc but it is not spoken about. It is a subject people have to be quiet about and at the same time it upsets people when you see something and say "makes me uncomfortable." Yes, the scene in NSNA and GF do make me uncomfortable.
My issue is when Bond is being sketchy is not that people sit and think "humm... maybe Pussy is conflicted and then decides she wants to do it with Bond." This could totally be the case. My issue is the moments leading up to it when she is fighting back. I seriously doubt you would do that to a person. Again, I love the movie, I can watch it but still think "maybe that is not really the way to go about it." I do not see holding someone down as seduction. I see that as restraint. So I am not really sure what you take issue with with my thoughts on this but this is what I think. She can totally want Bond, but holding her down was not awesome.
The same can be said with NSNA. Bond giving D a massage it is super creepy. Yes, she could be one of those people who gets off on being touched by strangers. That is a thing. If that is your thing, cool. I just think it was sleazy. I literally see nothing wrong with saying something was not how you would want your son/daughter to act/be treated. I am sure many people would not be thrilled if they thought a doctor or someone trained was touching them only to find out that was not the case. But, someone touching you without consent- not rape- it is screwed up. It is screwed up if you are a man and a lady slaps your ass, or if you are girl and another girl does it to you.
And yes, I do think the world (all genders) have a fixation on "sexily damaged" people. *I am guilt of it* So Fleming writes about crazy people who I, yes, see as "ice queens" or "ice kings." I mean that as in people who are seen as needing saving/ fixing on some level and the idea is that one person can fix/save them. It means the person doing the "melting" is special. People want to feel special and different. So that is what I think Fleming does, he makes Bond a "fixer." Someone who can turn the bad girls good by showing them love. No I do not think this is a stupid or bad point. I think it is interesting that do many people have this fixation.
As far as agendas... I think you are being condescending. Honestly, I think you are in a mood to fight with someone and the internet is an excellent way to belittle people (who don't even totally disagree with you
re Pussy Galore - in the book, Bond converts a lesbian. Fleming doesn't write this bit persuasively, mostly because he introduces the character about 20 pages from the end, but that's what we're supposed to believe happens
the filmmakers were scared to admit lesbians exist, so they had to come up with some other way of showing Pussy was not interested in sex with Bond, yet ends up in the life-raft with him by the last scene anyway. What the filmmakers came up with is rather more disturbing than just admitting lesbians exist.
But there was one other reason for that scene: Honour Blackman was known at the time for doing martial arts moves every week on The Avengers. She was a big name to have as the next Bondgirl, with her own set of fans who would expect to see her do that judo flip thing.
See now? :x
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
Having said that:
No, it is not. I'm not going into details, but I worked for many years (32 to be exact) in psychiatry and saw/was involved with many, many cases where women assaulted women, men, children, the old, and it was not spoken about- the reasons for that varied. This was well outnumbered by the cases where men did the assaulting, but I don't think that is the point here.
#1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
And done.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
"It's better than Die Another Day, and maybe Quantum Of Solace"
WHAT??? Maybe better than qos ?:)
I'm marking your card Wadsy!
Has the chase sequence been mentioned? Motorcycle chases through narrow alleyways and stairs were still pretty novel at the time, and the RM film that came a few years before NSNA, Escape to Athena comes to mind, as well as Hanover Street with Harrison Ford...but NSNA had Bond doing it many years before TND, SF and the Bourne movies. The only thing about the NSNA chase is that there's a less-than-ideal look to it, maybe due to editing or even the actual camera work, but on a technical basis in regard to the actual stunts, it was an impressive chase sequence.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
I always liked the chase as well. Good length, doesn't drag on too long. Connery looks great in the helmet and dinner suit, kind of an iconic Bondian image.
Continuity