Those people who were welcomed into Europe and reacted by leaving again to join an organisation that sees our way of life and our values as sinful and their enemy, and tjehy should not be welcomed back. How can we know if they have terrorst training? How can we know if they have abpondoned that heinious ideology, or perhaps they are only sorry because their side lost?
I'm not sure what you mean by our people doing the same in Syria and Afghanistan. Do you mean our allies there? "War makes for strange bedfellows". Our own troops in Afghanistan have killed civilians, but not because tehy see them as targets, but some are guilty of being far too trigger happy near civilians. ISIS see cilvilans as targets and the more civilians lost the greater their victory.
There are many reasons why I'm glad your're back, Hoggins. Among them are that I no longer feel I'm too intersted in politics or too far to the left
Well, I don‘t know the entire story which NP posted but I assume that these are UK nationals that went to Syria and have been locked up there.
We have similar cases with german nationals and of course the first reaction is that they should stay there.
As I‘ve said, we expect e.g. Tunesia taking back their nationals if they join a terror group in Europe and with the same right, Syria may demand that we take back UK, D, Norwegian nationals back after they have joined ISIS.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
You bring up some good points and some important ethical problems. I really think it would be right of European governments to say if you join the ISIS in Syria you can never come back. If a person earlier asked to come to us for their safety and now leave because they hate us and want to learn how to kill people who are different from them, they shouldn't expect to come back when it doesn't work out.
It could also stop those people from learning to kill, how to commit terrorism and getting even more radicalized.
But the problems Syria and other Middle Eastern countries have with people who joined ISIS are important and difficult. I have no simple solutions.
Well, I don‘t know the entire story which NP posted but I assume that these are UK nationals that went to Syria and have been locked up there.
We have similar cases with german nationals and of course the first reaction is that they should stay there.
As I‘ve said, we expect e.g. Tunesia taking back their nationals if they join a terror group in Europe and with the same right, Syria may demand that we take back UK, D, Norwegian nationals back after they have joined ISIS.
These are indeed UK nationals, 15 year old schoolgirls who decided to denounce the west and their birth country and take up arms to murder, terrorise, behead and butcher their way to create a new extreme Islam caliphate!
Only just days before what remains of IS or Isis or whatever is crushed she decides that she'd like to come back to the country she denounced and abandoned because her baby will have a better life.
Not only that but we need to send uk diplomats into danger to collect her and put her on a plane paid for by the UK.
OK so she's a UK national and therefore she's our problem so she should be allowed back to face justice. But as she got herself there she can get herself back, then be swiftly arrested and thrown in jail. Her baby should be removed and homed with a loving family.
OK so she's a UK national and therefore she's our problem so she should be allowed back to face justice. But as she got herself there she can get herself back, then be swiftly arrested and thrown in jail. Her baby should be removed and homed with a loving family.
Are you forgetting she tore up her UK passport and wanted nothing more to do with the U.K.? She’s not being held captive either...
The award winning book "Two sisters" by Åsne Seierstad is an excellent look into this question. It's about two teenage sisters in Norway in an immigrant family who look successfully integrated and are doing well at school. They gradually get radicalised and run away to Syria and IS. Highly recommended and probably translated to your language.
A new report says more people in many US allied countries trust Putin than Trump "to do the right thing regarding world affairs.". The countries include Japan, South Korea and seven European NATO members: Greece, Germany, Turkey, Hungary, France, Italy and Spain. Mind you, both leaders score low.
While I still think Trump is unfit to be the President of the USA, trusting Putin is a horrible mistake. But I have to think back to Trump's election campaign when he would get the world to respect the US again. Clearly the opposite has happened.
I still wonder if the referendum question could have been "do you want the UK to stay in the EU, or should the government start negotiations for a leave treaty followed by a second referendum to stay or leave?"
Would the EU have agreed to negotiations before a possible vote to leave?
Norway negotiated a deal with the EU before the referendum in 1994, but I guess joining is different from leaving.
I still wonder if the referendum question could have been "do you want the UK to stay in the EU, or should the government start negotiations for a leave treaty followed by a second referendum to stay or leave?"
Would the EU have agreed to negotiations before a possible vote to leave?
Norway negotiated a deal with the EU before the referendum in 1994, but I guess joining is different from leaving.
I don't there ever was ever a plan to leave, Cameron promised the referendum to win some votes, tried his best to avoid it then called it thinking it was a safe bet the UK would vote to stay. He then bailed rather than deal the egg on his face.
What has been interesting is watching our elected mps really prove what we've always thought, that they are a bunch of self serving narcissistic morons, who use words like values and morals to disguise their political grandstanding. This current debacle in Westminster also has shown Corbyn up for what he is, he had a great chance through all this to make his mark but all he's done is more naysaying and looked every inch like a university socialist who just wants to bring down the government whatever they stand for.
What has been interesting is watching our elected mps really prove what we've always thought, that they are a bunch of self serving narcissistic morons, who use words like values and morals to disguise their political grandstanding.
{[] Well said, CC. They have sold our country's future for their own interests.
My impression is that Cameron agreed to the referendum because he was convinced the leave people in the Tory party would calm down when the majority voted stay. Boy, was he wrong!
It's amazing how Corbyn hasn't been able to take advantage of the chaos in the Tory party at all. It should have been easy ….
It's amazing how Corbyn hasn't been able to take advantage of the chaos in the Tory party at all. It should have been easy ….
Yes it should have been for any intelligent political mind, Corbyn and his henchman McDonnell are just anarchists, who have pipe dreams for a manifesto and STILL refer to Venezuela as a socialist example! But at least Labour have the hugely talented Diane Abbott to draw attention away from just how politically impotent Corbyn is
The situation really is laughable, we have 4 country's being scuppered by a few hardcore brexiteers, a backstop and an opposition party who just automatically vote down anything the government propose! And this is just the first stage! It's just a withdrawal agreement! God help us when it comes to negotiating the actual deal
What has been interesting is watching our elected mps really prove what we've always thought, that they are a bunch of self serving narcissistic morons, who use words like values and morals to disguise their political grandstanding.
{[] Well said, CC. They have sold our country's future for their own interests.
{[] Barbel
They have, the whole thing has been democracy at its worst. And somehow Parliament have managed to give themselves more power, funny that.
OK so she's a UK national and therefore she's our problem so she should be allowed back to face justice. But as she got herself there she can get herself back, then be swiftly arrested and thrown in jail. Her baby should be removed and homed with a loving family.
Are you forgetting she tore up her UK passport and wanted nothing more to do with the U.K.? She’s not being held captive either...
No, we know she's British, but she should have no help from the UK to return.
I imagine it’s easier to ‘help her’ to ensure she doesn’t disappear, so she can be more swiftly held accountable. This is a golden opportunity, given all her recent press comments, to prosecute her and send a message* to others who might consider the same route. (*for whatever good it does).
Comments
I'm not sure what you mean by our people doing the same in Syria and Afghanistan. Do you mean our allies there? "War makes for strange bedfellows". Our own troops in Afghanistan have killed civilians, but not because tehy see them as targets, but some are guilty of being far too trigger happy near civilians. ISIS see cilvilans as targets and the more civilians lost the greater their victory.
There are many reasons why I'm glad your're back, Hoggins. Among them are that I no longer feel I'm too intersted in politics or too far to the left
We have similar cases with german nationals and of course the first reaction is that they should stay there.
As I‘ve said, we expect e.g. Tunesia taking back their nationals if they join a terror group in Europe and with the same right, Syria may demand that we take back UK, D, Norwegian nationals back after they have joined ISIS.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It could also stop those people from learning to kill, how to commit terrorism and getting even more radicalized.
But the problems Syria and other Middle Eastern countries have with people who joined ISIS are important and difficult. I have no simple solutions.
Only just days before what remains of IS or Isis or whatever is crushed she decides that she'd like to come back to the country she denounced and abandoned because her baby will have a better life.
Not only that but we need to send uk diplomats into danger to collect her and put her on a plane paid for by the UK.
OK so she's a UK national and therefore she's our problem so she should be allowed back to face justice. But as she got herself there she can get herself back, then be swiftly arrested and thrown in jail. Her baby should be removed and homed with a loving family.
We have the same issue with german citizens in the same situation.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Who are you, and what have you done with Higgins?
Are you forgetting she tore up her UK passport and wanted nothing more to do with the U.K.? She’s not being held captive either...
While I still think Trump is unfit to be the President of the USA, trusting Putin is a horrible mistake. But I have to think back to Trump's election campaign when he would get the world to respect the US again. Clearly the opposite has happened.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/16/us-allies-trust-vladimir-putin-donald-trump/
It's her bed. Let her lie in it. Let her lie in it!
I have in particular enjoyed the bit about representative democracy and why these referendums don‘t work.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HaBQfSAVt0s
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
What has the world come to 8-)
Must get that Breunion album now
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Imo the only convincing reason for leaving the EU so far.
Would make a nice belated Valentine‘s gift for the wife though
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Would the EU have agreed to negotiations before a possible vote to leave?
Norway negotiated a deal with the EU before the referendum in 1994, but I guess joining is different from leaving.
What has been interesting is watching our elected mps really prove what we've always thought, that they are a bunch of self serving narcissistic morons, who use words like values and morals to disguise their political grandstanding. This current debacle in Westminster also has shown Corbyn up for what he is, he had a great chance through all this to make his mark but all he's done is more naysaying and looked every inch like a university socialist who just wants to bring down the government whatever they stand for.
{[] Well said, CC. They have sold our country's future for their own interests.
It's amazing how Corbyn hasn't been able to take advantage of the chaos in the Tory party at all. It should have been easy ….
The situation really is laughable, we have 4 country's being scuppered by a few hardcore brexiteers, a backstop and an opposition party who just automatically vote down anything the government propose! And this is just the first stage! It's just a withdrawal agreement! God help us when it comes to negotiating the actual deal
They have, the whole thing has been democracy at its worst. And somehow Parliament have managed to give themselves more power, funny that.