Very Flemingesque Elements in the Bond Films not from Fleming?

Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
edited October 2017 in The James Bond Films
So, in this thread I want us to discuss what is says in the thread title up there. Namely, which scenes or elements, or lines of dialogue (or whatever you like), do you feel are very Flemingesque in nature but yet which do not have a corresponding source in the Fleming literary Bond canon? Of Fleming, but not Fleming, if you will.

So, in other words, things that the assembled writers of the Bond films, from the classic Bond Richard Maibaum era onward to the current rebooted Bond era of Purvis and Wade, have thought up all by themselves without adapting or otherwise relying on the works of Ian Fleming.

So, I think that's all clear enough. I'd love to hear your choices for this.

In the meantime, I will leave you with just one of mine to illustrate the point, that I thought of when the idea for this thread came to me idly earlier this year.

It comes from the pen of Tom Mankiewicz/Richard Maibaum. The film is The Man with the Golden Gun (1974) and I think it's a brilliantly written scene, worthy of Fleming but obviously not written by him in the source novel. It's a good encapsulation of what James Bond is and represents - "When I kill, it's on the specific orders of my government. And those I kill are themselves killers." That's a great encapsulation of James Bond's raison d'être all neatly gift-wrapped up in one short scene. It's powerful writing, and at the same time, the most Flemingesque thing not to come from Fleming's literary Bond. It's therefore, in my view, the perfect scene to illustrate and encapsulate the reasoning behind this thread. Here's the scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_dAKu_cNS8

I may have a few more to add of my own later, but for now I'd love to hear your choices! :)
"The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).

Comments

  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    I've always thought the scene in casino royale between bond and Vesper was flemingesque, not the omega name drop but the other repartee.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,425MI6 Agent
    The deleted scene in LTK where Bond sits in his hotel room smoking and drinking while watching Sanchez on TV. He finished the flask, open it up and the hidden Walther PPK is revealed. That was a particularly Flemingesque moment.
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    I've never seen this scene.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    I've never seen this scene.

    I think I did once, a long time ago. Would like to see it again.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    QoS at the Hotel after the desert scenes?
    a reasonable rate of return
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    QoS at the Hotel after the desert scenes?
    Certainly the scene at the end of the film in Kazan, it actually reminds me of the qos short story.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    QoS at the Hotel after the desert scenes?
    Certainly the scene at the end of the film in Kazan, it actually reminds me of the qos short story.
    I should change that to "most of QoS."
    a reasonable rate of return
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,865MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    QoS at the Hotel after the desert scenes?
    Certainly the scene at the end of the film in Kazan, it actually reminds me of the qos short story.
    I should change that to "most of QoS."

    With a bit of '007 in New York' thrown in for good measure.
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    I've always thought the scene in casino royale between bond and Vesper was flemingesque, not the omega name drop but the other repartee.

    I would agree that their initial chemistry in CR is similar to Bond's conversations with Tiffany Case and Pussy Galore in their respective novels, though it's funny that these two are fleshed out by Fleming as American gangster women. That "essence" is far removed from that of the literary Vesper and IMO not flattering for the screen Vesper. I watched parts of CR on TV recently and although that repartee made for an interesting intro for Vesper and good material to further Bond's own characterization, I wondered if that friction and animosity was necessary. Should Bond be that provocative when meeting a colleague for the first time? I personally would not like to start a professional relationship that way.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 38,078Chief of Staff
    Chriscoop wrote:
    I've never seen this scene.

    Here's a still:
    aa_old_man_4.jpg
  • OrnithologistOrnithologist BerlinPosts: 586MI6 Agent
    superado wrote:
    I personally would not like to start a professional relationship that way.

    And that's why you're not Bond ;)
    "I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman. "
    "- That is something to be afraid of."
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
    superado wrote:
    I personally would not like to start a professional relationship that way.

    And that's why you're not Bond ;)

    And some would argue neither is DC, Fleming's Bond -{
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    Chriscoop wrote:
    I've never seen this scene.

    Here's a still:
    aa_old_man_4.jpg
    Very flemingesque. Thanks Barbel -{
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 38,078Chief of Staff
    {[]
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    superado wrote:
    Chriscoop wrote:
    I've always thought the scene in casino royale between bond and Vesper was flemingesque, not the omega name drop but the other repartee.

    I would agree that their initial chemistry in CR is similar to Bond's conversations with Tiffany Case and Pussy Galore in their respective novels, though it's funny that these two are fleshed out by Fleming as American gangster women. That "essence" is far removed from that of the literary Vesper and IMO not flattering for the screen Vesper. I watched parts of CR on TV recently and although that repartee made for an interesting intro for Vesper and good material to further Bond's own characterization, I wondered if that friction and animosity was necessary. Should Bond be that provocative when meeting a colleague for the first time? I personally would not like to start a professional relationship that way.
    Well film Vesper is very confident though it obviously belies some form of damage which is a Fleming trait when it comes to the literary female characters in many cases Bond in this instance reads her well and is not afraid to take her on, how many times in the books has bond been short or Ill tempered with a woman, If I remember correctly I'm sure he has even referred to one as a silly bitch? Which would also make the CR scene where bond asks for the extra 5 million and calls vesper an idiot also flemingesque.
    From an earlier discussion the scene of Corrines death in MR also strikes me as flemingesque in its darkness.
    From TLD the scene where bond ends up collecting the cello makes me think of Fleming, I can almost here myself reading the words " bond cursed inwardly for allowing himself to be manipulated by this woman, this damned cello had them precious moments which could make difference between making the border out of Russia or capture and torment at the hands of the kgb."
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • walther p99walther p99 NJPosts: 3,416MI6 Agent
    I always thought the morbid shooting contest between Bond and Silva in SF felt like a Fleming scene brought to life.
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    The Bilbao meeting in The World Is Not Enough.
    Though it's better written than what Fleming typed out, dialogue wise, there is something that always strikes me as something that Fleming's Bond would do.
    Also, it helps that it's my single favorite scene of all of Brosnan's tenure. Quick, inventive, outlandish and exciting.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    superado wrote:
    Chriscoop wrote:
    I've always thought the scene in casino royale between bond and Vesper was flemingesque, not the omega name drop but the other repartee.

    I would agree that their initial chemistry in CR is similar to Bond's conversations with Tiffany Case and Pussy Galore in their respective novels, though it's funny that these two are fleshed out by Fleming as American gangster women. That "essence" is far removed from that of the literary Vesper and IMO not flattering for the screen Vesper. I watched parts of CR on TV recently and although that repartee made for an interesting intro for Vesper and good material to further Bond's own characterization, I wondered if that friction and animosity was necessary. Should Bond be that provocative when meeting a colleague for the first time? I personally would not like to start a professional relationship that way.
    Well film Vesper is very confident though it obviously belies some form of damage which is a Fleming trait when it comes to the literary female characters in many cases Bond in this instance reads her well and is not afraid to take her on, how many times in the books has bond been short or Ill tempered with a woman, If I remember correctly I'm sure he has even referred to one as a silly bitch? Which would also make the CR scene where bond asks for the extra 5 million and calls vesper an idiot also flemingesque.
    From an earlier discussion the scene of Corrines death in MR also strikes me as flemingesque in its darkness.
    From TLD the scene where bond ends up collecting the cello makes me think of Fleming, I can almost here myself reading the words " bond cursed inwardly for allowing himself to be manipulated by this woman, this damned cello had them precious moments which could make difference between making the border out of Russia or capture and torment at the hands of the kgb."

    Yes, I pretty much agree with those instances, particularly TD often being short with Kara as Flemingesque. Even the idiot calling is on the spot Fleming-chauvinist, but it's just that initial meeting scene with Vesper in CR that touches a nerve whenever I watch it because of Bond's uncalled-for belligerence, which in turn is behavior that's beneath his character.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 4,140MI6 Agent
    superado wrote:
    ...Should Bond be that provocative when meeting a colleague for the first time? I personally would not like to start a professional relationship that way.
    CraigBond was introduced as very good at ass-whuppin' and blowing up embassies, but not having much in the way of social skills. M assigned him the Casino job because he was the best card player, but I believe she says something like "believe me, I wish you weren't", as if she would have preferred to send any other agent. As if any other agent might have the social skills needed for the mission, but card-skills were in this case more important.
    Chriscoop wrote:
    If I remember correctly I'm sure he has even referred to one as a silly bitch?
    are you thinking of Fleming's version of Casino Royale?
    here's the bitch quotes:
    fleming wrote:
    (when Mathis tells him he has been assigned an assistant)
    'What the hell do they want to send me a woman for?' he said bitterly. 'Do they think this is a bloody picnic?'
    ...
    And then there was this pest of a girl. He sighed. Women were for recreation. On a job, they got in the way and fogged things up with sex and hurt feelings and all the emotional baggage they carried around. One had to look out for them and take care of them.

    'Bitch,' said Bond, and then remembering the Muntzes, he said 'bitch' again more loudly and walked out of the room.
    (PAN edition pg 32-33)
    ___________________________________________________
    (after Vesper has been captured)
    This was just what he had been afraid of. These blithering women who thought they could do a man's work. Why the hell couldn't they stay at home and mind their pots and pans and stick to their frocks and gossip and leave men's work to the men. And now for this to happen to him, just when the job had come off so beautifully. For Vesper to fall for an old trick like that and get herself snatched and probably held to ransom like some bloody heroine in a strip cartoon. The silly bitch.
    (PAN edition pg 105)
    ___________________________________________________
    (then of course at the end)
    'This is 007 speaking. This is an open line. It's an emergency. Can you hear me? Pass this on at once. 3030 was a double, working for Redland.

    'Yes, dammit, I said "was". The bitch is dead now.'
    (PAN edition pg 189)
    Including the final line in the film was almost as surprising as including that torture scene.
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