The only problems I had with AVTAK's production were the stunt doubles throughout Paris and literally the first half of the movie, as I mentioned earlier which could be lazy directing but I'm no expert on how movies are made.
I agree that LTK has much better action sequences. They're more modern and helped by a keen Dalton. But I think that this is at the expense of the other scenes - so on balance - doesn't really make much of a difference in the overall scheme of things.
Are you able to elaborate on what you said regarding AVTAK having clearer production values? Maybe I've missed something.
I think it's the globe-trotting, definitely.
San Francisco is wonderfully shot and getting access to the estate for such a long time must've been pricey.
Sets are not that well designed though. Wish Ken Adam was still there. Not megalomaniac-ey enough although the blimp's nice and they try to make it as realistic as possible with the offices and such so it must've been hard to squeeze in such sets.
I think you get Peter Lamont's understated, fine touch. Every set looks like all details are considered - while they might not be Ken Adam-ish in scope - you get the same level of care seen in OP where the sets are realistic, not OTT. Some examples:
- The escape boat.
- M's office is stunning - again.
- The restaurant in Paris.
- The Chantilly interiors.
- The hidden stable.
- The hut tub in China town.
- Stacey's kitchen.
- The city hall offices.
- The blimp interior.
- The mine.
There's also the fine touch with all the clothing and gadgets - LTK is the opposite. Think about the Louis Vuitton cheque scanner, the Bogner suit, the Dom Perignon at the party, Grace Jones' tailored look, Stacy's clothing (which is 80s but still looks stunning) and Zorin's company backstory detail.
Didn't he bring all foods seen in the Severnaya complex for that extra touch of realism?
I definitely appreciate that but that sort of thing is by now an expectation that one has from a high-budget film as Bond.
Making the outlandish sets is the crème de la crème-the ultimate extra mile one can take to make this film special and memorable.
Sure, Henderson's house with the odd mixture of styles looked great and it was that extra touch but the payoff, the volcano complex is the set everyone remembers.
Hope I'm getting my point across.
Didn't he bring all foods seen in the Severnaya complex for that extra touch of realism?
I definitely appreciate that but that sort of thing is by now an expectation that one has from a high-budget film as Bond.
Making the outlandish sets is the crème de la crème-the ultimate extra mile one can take to make this film special and memorable.
Sure, Henderson's house with the odd mixture of styles looked great and it was that extra touch but the payoff, the volcano complex is the set everyone remembers.
Hope I'm getting my point across.
Yeah but the 80s films made an effort to move away from that. While it had the added bonus for the studio of controllable and lower budget - it was a decision made for that "realistic edge" feel.
None of the 80's Bond films felt low-budget for me, except Licence To Kill and it's clearly visible throughout. Not having London featured anywhere in the film, low key US and Central American locations etc. Normally these things don't bother me but in this case it did.
As much as I love the little niggles thread, I have been avoiding this one because I really do love the Bond films overall. It would take the absolute best of Clint Eastwood, John Wayne and Humphrey Bogart to even rival my 20th favorite Bond movie.
That being said, I will make a few notes of parts that I genuinely dislike. Forgive me for some of these being very commonly disliked by other fans as well.
Goldfinger: Bond vs Pussy in the barn. I know she's a baddie and all but it's not the "sexy judo match" that Roger Ebert claims.
Thunderball: The endless helicopter searching for the sunken Vulcan is excruciating. Shooting the shark with the speargun is cruel.
Bond vs Patricia Fearing is cringeworthy. The cloned pilot is outrageous, especially if you are a fan of the novel. The final underwater battle is not only tedious, but very unpleasant to see people getting speared and thrashing about. And of course the fight with Largo with sped up footage and rear projection is a total loss.
YOLT: Aki dying and being replaced so far into the film. The long boring wedding sequence. Bond turning Japanese. I know this was in the novel, but that doesn't mean they had to use it.
OHMSS: Tracy's head not going underwater yet somehow drowning. The weird montage of the girls eating dinner at Piz Gloria. Ruby in general. Bond going way out of his way to cheat on Tracy. Bond's cover being blown for saying the wrong thing, which infact was totally correct.
DAF: Blofeld in drag. Connery's overall appearance. Plenty being dead in the pool.
LALD: The opening bedroom farce. The overlong boat chase and JW Pepper. Bond cheating Solitaire to get in bed with him and robbing her of her cool powers.
TMWTGG: JW Pepper in the carchase. The slide whistle. Hip driving away and leaving Bond behind. Goodnight's incompetence. The final fight with Nick Nack.
TSWLM: Bond making so many jokes while Jaws is destroying the van. I don't see how he could be taking the situation so lightly.
MR: Jaws flapping his wings in the PTS. Bond knowing the chemical formula of a plant and also correcting Q on the river.
FYEO: Blofeld's odd dialog in the PTS. The Bill Conti soundtrack. All scenes with Bibi Dahl. The Thatcher ending.
OP: The cliche marketplace fight. Zooming in the on the cleavage. The Tarzan yell. The little dispute with Bond and Octopussy in the bedroom. Bond in the gorilla suit.
AVTAK: The beach boys song. Bond's tracksuit. The firetruck chase and Bond swinging around on the ladder.
TLD: Bond joining forces with the mujahideen.
LTK: The comic bar fight.
GE: The constant political correctness.
DAD: The virtual reality sequences. Jinx and her dialog. The CGI surfing.
CR: The entire PTS and title sequence and song.
SF: Everything except the title sequence and song.
SP: Blofeld being Bond's brother.
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
OHMSS: Tracy's head not going underwater yet somehow drowning. The weird montage of the girls eating dinner at Piz Gloria. Ruby in general. Bond going way out of his way to cheat on Tracy. Bond's cover being blown for saying the wrong thing, which infact was totally correct.
OH god... As much as I love OHMSS, I cannot stand Ruby Bartlett. Just ugly, vomit inducing and just completely annoying and unattractive. If she was a bond girl, yeah she'd be pretty down there in the ranks.
OHMSS: Tracy's head not going underwater yet somehow drowning. The weird montage of the girls eating dinner at Piz Gloria. Ruby in general. Bond going way out of his way to cheat on Tracy. Bond's cover being blown for saying the wrong thing, which infact was totally correct.
If Tracy drowned she wouldn't have still been alive. She attempts suicide but does not get very far in her attempt when Bond comes to rescue her. She was overcome with the stress of the situation and passes out. She passes out from either emotional reasons or hyperventilates in her attempt to resist Bond's rescue.
Bond did not go out of his way to cheat on Tracy. The girls were the ones who wanted him. Bond was actually more interested in finding out about the girls' histories to discover what was truly going on at the clinic than he was with sleeping with them. It seemed clear that he only slept with them for information (part of his job), though he enjoyed it too. While you and I would call what Bond did "cheating" on Tracy, he was not committed to Tracy. Bond didn't consider that cheating, and I would guess that Tracy wouldn't have either. They both slept together early in the film, and neither one of them considered sex to have much meaning, let alone they had no commitment to each other. If he slept with other women after they had become engaged, that would have undeniably been cheating. The way Bond operated is not the way I think anyone should if they are dating someone (which Bond was), but considering the two people involved I don't think either one of them thought Bond was cheating.
You are free to dislike these parts of the films, but at least make an attempt to understand what is going on.
I think the montage of girls eating dinner was symbolic (and indicative of their place of origin) yet only slightly relevant to the story.
Didn't Ruby say she hated chicken but somehow got cured and loved it now, hence her eating chicken for dinner?
Yes, montage depicts successful cures for the girls' allergies.
If there was anything to oppose to in the montage, I think the banana eaten by the lady of colour takes the cake.
One could say it's in bad taste.
Why?
Are "ladies of colour" not supposed to eat bananas? We have to be very careful not to look for things that don't exist or be too quick to make incorrect conclusions, all too often completely innocent things are made a scandal out of at the behest of the easily offended pc gone mad Brigade.
I think this is a very clever little scene. Showing with food that
The girls come from all over the world. With stereotypical foods. The Irish girl eats potatoes. I'm sure a Scottish girl
Would have been shown eating haggis or a deep fried Mars
Bar
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I think this is a very clever little scene. Showing with food that
The girls come from all over the world. With stereotypical foods. The Irish girl eats potatoes. I'm sure a Scottish girl
Would have been shown eating haggis or a deep fried Mars
Bar
I think this is a very clever little scene. Showing with food that
The girls come from all over the world. With stereotypical foods. The Irish girl eats potatoes. I'm sure a Scottish girl
Would have been shown eating haggis or a deep fried Mars
Bar
) )
) ) )
I sorta found it funny that a banana could be considered dinner.
I think this is a very clever little scene. Showing with food that
The girls come from all over the world. With stereotypical foods. The Irish girl eats potatoes. I'm sure a Scottish girl
Would have been shown eating haggis or a deep fried Mars
Bar
) )
) ) )
I sorta found it funny that a banana could be considered dinner.
I know someone who used to eat 20 or 30 bananas for dinner! But just one? That's silly!
OHMSS: Tracy's head not going underwater yet somehow drowning. The weird montage of the girls eating dinner at Piz Gloria. Ruby in general. Bond going way out of his way to cheat on Tracy. Bond's cover being blown for saying the wrong thing, which infact was totally correct.
OH god... As much as I love OHMSS, I cannot stand Ruby Bartlett. Just ugly, vomit inducing and just completely annoying and unattractive. If she was a bond girl, yeah she'd be pretty down there in the ranks.
You should express your feelings more, it does not good to bottle it up you know :007)
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I think the montage of girls eating dinner was symbolic (and indicative of their place of origin) yet only slightly relevant to the story.
Didn't Ruby say she hated chicken but somehow got cured and loved it now, hence her eating chicken for dinner?
Yes, montage depicts successful cures for the girls' allergies.
If there was anything to oppose to in the montage, I think the banana eaten by the lady of colour takes the cake.
One could say it's in bad taste.
The banana could make logical sense. Ruby lives on a chicken farm, so she has access to chickens which assists Blofeld's plot. The black girl may live on a banana plantation in the Caribbean, and that is also part of Blofeld's plan: she has access to banana harvests and can therefore wipe them out.
OHMSS: Tracy's head not going underwater yet somehow drowning. The weird montage of the girls eating dinner at Piz Gloria. Ruby in general. Bond going way out of his way to cheat on Tracy. Bond's cover being blown for saying the wrong thing, which infact was totally correct.
OH god... As much as I love OHMSS, I cannot stand Ruby Bartlett. Just ugly, vomit inducing and just completely annoying and unattractive. If she was a bond girl, yeah she'd be pretty down there in the ranks.
You should express your feelings more, it does not good to bottle it up you know :007)
OHMSS: Tracy's head not going underwater yet somehow drowning. The weird montage of the girls eating dinner at Piz Gloria. Ruby in general. Bond going way out of his way to cheat on Tracy. Bond's cover being blown for saying the wrong thing, which infact was totally correct.
OH god... As much as I love OHMSS, I cannot stand Ruby Bartlett. Just ugly, vomit inducing and just completely annoying and unattractive. If she was a bond girl, yeah she'd be pretty down there in the ranks.
Ugly..?! Vomit inducing?! Unattractive?! I suggest you borrow a pair of Ruby's spectacles sir. The fact that she's a down to earth, English lass also works well for me in the film.
I think this is a very clever little scene. Showing with food that
The girls come from all over the world. With stereotypical foods. The Irish girl eats potatoes. I'm sure a Scottish girl
Would have been shown eating haggis or a deep fried Mars
Bar
OH god... As much as I love OHMSS, I cannot stand Ruby Bartlett. Just ugly, vomit inducing and just completely annoying and unattractive. If she was a bond girl, yeah she'd be pretty down there in the ranks.
Did you find her any more appealing in CR67, a couple of years earlier? (She was sharing a bath with Sir James, checking the water temperature.)
OH god... As much as I love OHMSS, I cannot stand Ruby Bartlett. Just ugly, vomit inducing and just completely annoying and unattractive. If she was a bond girl, yeah she'd be pretty down there in the ranks.
Did you find her any more appealing in CR67, a couple of years earlier? (She was sharing a bath with Sir James, checking the water temperature.)
Can't speak for Wadsy but she was pretty cute in that.
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Comments
I agree that LTK has much better action sequences. They're more modern and helped by a keen Dalton. But I think that this is at the expense of the other scenes - so on balance - doesn't really make much of a difference in the overall scheme of things.
I think you get Peter Lamont's understated, fine touch. Every set looks like all details are considered - while they might not be Ken Adam-ish in scope - you get the same level of care seen in OP where the sets are realistic, not OTT. Some examples:
- The escape boat.
- M's office is stunning - again.
- The restaurant in Paris.
- The Chantilly interiors.
- The hidden stable.
- The hut tub in China town.
- Stacey's kitchen.
- The city hall offices.
- The blimp interior.
- The mine.
There's also the fine touch with all the clothing and gadgets - LTK is the opposite. Think about the Louis Vuitton cheque scanner, the Bogner suit, the Dom Perignon at the party, Grace Jones' tailored look, Stacy's clothing (which is 80s but still looks stunning) and Zorin's company backstory detail.
"Better make that two."
I definitely appreciate that but that sort of thing is by now an expectation that one has from a high-budget film as Bond.
Making the outlandish sets is the crème de la crème-the ultimate extra mile one can take to make this film special and memorable.
Sure, Henderson's house with the odd mixture of styles looked great and it was that extra touch but the payoff, the volcano complex is the set everyone remembers.
Hope I'm getting my point across.
Yeah but the 80s films made an effort to move away from that. While it had the added bonus for the studio of controllable and lower budget - it was a decision made for that "realistic edge" feel.
"Better make that two."
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
That being said, I will make a few notes of parts that I genuinely dislike. Forgive me for some of these being very commonly disliked by other fans as well.
Goldfinger: Bond vs Pussy in the barn. I know she's a baddie and all but it's not the "sexy judo match" that Roger Ebert claims.
Thunderball: The endless helicopter searching for the sunken Vulcan is excruciating. Shooting the shark with the speargun is cruel.
Bond vs Patricia Fearing is cringeworthy. The cloned pilot is outrageous, especially if you are a fan of the novel. The final underwater battle is not only tedious, but very unpleasant to see people getting speared and thrashing about. And of course the fight with Largo with sped up footage and rear projection is a total loss.
YOLT: Aki dying and being replaced so far into the film. The long boring wedding sequence. Bond turning Japanese. I know this was in the novel, but that doesn't mean they had to use it.
OHMSS: Tracy's head not going underwater yet somehow drowning. The weird montage of the girls eating dinner at Piz Gloria. Ruby in general. Bond going way out of his way to cheat on Tracy. Bond's cover being blown for saying the wrong thing, which infact was totally correct.
DAF: Blofeld in drag. Connery's overall appearance. Plenty being dead in the pool.
LALD: The opening bedroom farce. The overlong boat chase and JW Pepper. Bond cheating Solitaire to get in bed with him and robbing her of her cool powers.
TMWTGG: JW Pepper in the carchase. The slide whistle. Hip driving away and leaving Bond behind. Goodnight's incompetence. The final fight with Nick Nack.
TSWLM: Bond making so many jokes while Jaws is destroying the van. I don't see how he could be taking the situation so lightly.
MR: Jaws flapping his wings in the PTS. Bond knowing the chemical formula of a plant and also correcting Q on the river.
FYEO: Blofeld's odd dialog in the PTS. The Bill Conti soundtrack. All scenes with Bibi Dahl. The Thatcher ending.
OP: The cliche marketplace fight. Zooming in the on the cleavage. The Tarzan yell. The little dispute with Bond and Octopussy in the bedroom. Bond in the gorilla suit.
AVTAK: The beach boys song. Bond's tracksuit. The firetruck chase and Bond swinging around on the ladder.
TLD: Bond joining forces with the mujahideen.
LTK: The comic bar fight.
GE: The constant political correctness.
DAD: The virtual reality sequences. Jinx and her dialog. The CGI surfing.
CR: The entire PTS and title sequence and song.
SF: Everything except the title sequence and song.
SP: Blofeld being Bond's brother.
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
OH god... As much as I love OHMSS, I cannot stand Ruby Bartlett. Just ugly, vomit inducing and just completely annoying and unattractive. If she was a bond girl, yeah she'd be pretty down there in the ranks.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
If Tracy drowned she wouldn't have still been alive. She attempts suicide but does not get very far in her attempt when Bond comes to rescue her. She was overcome with the stress of the situation and passes out. She passes out from either emotional reasons or hyperventilates in her attempt to resist Bond's rescue.
Bond did not go out of his way to cheat on Tracy. The girls were the ones who wanted him. Bond was actually more interested in finding out about the girls' histories to discover what was truly going on at the clinic than he was with sleeping with them. It seemed clear that he only slept with them for information (part of his job), though he enjoyed it too. While you and I would call what Bond did "cheating" on Tracy, he was not committed to Tracy. Bond didn't consider that cheating, and I would guess that Tracy wouldn't have either. They both slept together early in the film, and neither one of them considered sex to have much meaning, let alone they had no commitment to each other. If he slept with other women after they had become engaged, that would have undeniably been cheating. The way Bond operated is not the way I think anyone should if they are dating someone (which Bond was), but considering the two people involved I don't think either one of them thought Bond was cheating.
You are free to dislike these parts of the films, but at least make an attempt to understand what is going on.
Didn't Ruby say she hated chicken but somehow got cured and loved it now, hence her eating chicken for dinner?
Yes, montage depicts successful cures for the girls' allergies.
One could say it's in bad taste.
Why?
Are "ladies of colour" not supposed to eat bananas? We have to be very careful not to look for things that don't exist or be too quick to make incorrect conclusions, all too often completely innocent things are made a scandal out of at the behest of the easily offended pc gone mad Brigade.
The girls come from all over the world. With stereotypical foods. The Irish girl eats potatoes. I'm sure a Scottish girl
Would have been shown eating haggis or a deep fried Mars
Bar
I sorta found it funny that a banana could be considered dinner.
I know someone who used to eat 20 or 30 bananas for dinner! But just one? That's silly!
Blood pressure.
You should express your feelings more, it does not good to bottle it up you know :007)
The banana could make logical sense. Ruby lives on a chicken farm, so she has access to chickens which assists Blofeld's plot. The black girl may live on a banana plantation in the Caribbean, and that is also part of Blofeld's plan: she has access to banana harvests and can therefore wipe them out.
Ugly..?! Vomit inducing?! Unattractive?! I suggest you borrow a pair of Ruby's spectacles sir. The fact that she's a down to earth, English lass also works well for me in the film.
Only one? Better make that two!
Did you find her any more appealing in CR67, a couple of years earlier? (She was sharing a bath with Sir James, checking the water temperature.)
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