Which movie showcased the darkest side of Brosnan?

DieAnotherDayDieAnotherDay Glasgow, ScotlandPosts: 460MI6 Agent
It's no secret that Brosnan was always up for taking the character into deeper and darker territory and it's also remarkably evident that he never quite got his wish during his tenure. With this being said though, his films were anything but lighthearted in certain areas and each one contained a solid leading performance, in which Brozzer tried his damnedest to inject an omninous vulnrability into the Super-spy.

This isn't just which Brozzer film is the darkest, but which film do you think successfully showcases the darker edge of his bond? Cause he had a few truly believable moments as a cold hearted killer.
....and the best he ever managed was a sermon on the mount.
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Comments

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 SwitzerlandPosts: 870MI6 Agent
    GoldenEye has a lot of subtext in the dialogue with Alec, Natalya, M.
    It's done subtly, so it is not into your face and you may not catch it consciously.
    At least it took me quite a while to realise it.

    The World Is Not Enough seems the "darkest" of the Brosnan films.
    Die Another Day's first 30 minutes or so are quite sinister too in places.

    Overall Brosnan is quite the badass in all his films. In TND he is more of an action-hero but it fits the film and 1997 was a time when this kind of film was very popular.

    If I had to choose one, it's GoldenEye as it has quite a bit of gritty brutal action, wonderful dialogue that explores Bond's character and psyche.
    Dalton Rulez™
  • RemingtonRemington CAPosts: 239MI6 Agent
    I think it's a toss-up between GE and TWINE. The first act of DAD is up there as well. Also the killing of Kaufman in TND.
    -{
    1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    Well, one thing no-one has mentioned about TND is the Terminator-mode of the final boss fight ship sequence and Carver's gruesome death.

    There's the (unwarranted) beach scene in GoldenEye that explores this fact so my vote goes for it.
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  • welshguy34welshguy34 Posts: 219MI6 Agent
    I would probably say TWINE. Goldeneye comes close.
  • WadsyWadsy Auckland, New ZealandPosts: 412MI6 Agent
    GoldenEye
    1. FYEO 2. OHMSS 3. LTK 4. FRWL 5. TLD 6. TSWLM 7. AVTAK 8. GF 9. MR 10. TB 11. OP 12. SF 13. DN 14. SP 15. LALD 16. GE 17. CR 18. YOLT 19. TWINE 20. TMWTGG 21. NTTD 22. TND 23. QOS 24. NSNA 25. DAD 26. DAF 27. CR '67

    1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Well, one thing no-one has mentioned about TND is the Terminator-mode of the final boss fight ship sequence and Carver's gruesome death.

    There's the (unwarranted) beach scene in GoldenEye that explores this fact so my vote goes for it.

    That Beach scene is amongst the most cringeworthy of the series. Plus the Duran Duran hairdo of course. Tragic. Killing of Kaufman gets my vote for darkest.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • JTMJTM Posts: 3,027MI6 Agent
    Wadsy wrote:
    GoldenEye

    In my opinion Alec's death is probably the darkest/most brutal Brosnan Bond moment. His expressionless face and stone cold delivery of the "No, for me" line then just letting go of Alec, plus lack of classic "played for laughs" Bond one liner that seems to happen after every other death in the series, makes it really stand out for me.
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    JTM wrote:
    Wadsy wrote:
    GoldenEye

    In my opinion Alec's death is probably the darkest/most brutal Brosnan Bond moment. His expressionless face and stone cold delivery of the "No, for me" line then just letting go of Alec, plus lack of classic "played for laughs" Bond one liner that seems to happen after every other death in the series, makes it really stand out for me.

    Certainly a contender. Very fine indeed.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    zaphod99 wrote:
    That Beach scene is amongst the most cringeworthy of the series. Plus the Duran Duran hairdo of course. Tragic.
    Right? I mean, it came out of nowhere. Didn't she stop to think why he was killing the soldiers at the archives? Natalya became more naive than Kara in that scene.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 4,108MI6 Agent
    having just watched it I'm going to say November Man.
    I'm thinking its what he would have liked to do with Bond if the producers hadn't been playing it so safe in the 90s.
    My library doesn't have this Matador film Gymkata mentions, but now I'm intrigued.

    Of the actual Bond films, The World Is Not Enough. Even M looks shocked when he kills off Elektra. Not the first time Bond kills a woman he's slept with (thatd be Fiona Volpe?), but the first time we really see the emotions boiling under the surface as he makes the choice. (Fiona's death was the setup for a punchline).
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    I think he's stone cold in GE, TWINE features dark moments, but they get the tempered emotion following the action.

    Think about the back of neck chop in GE on Xenia!
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    I think he's stone cold in GE, TWINE features dark moments, but they get the tempered emotion following the action.

    Think about the back of neck chop in GE on Xenia!

    For me it's undermined by how badly he executes it, not quite Roger Moore bad but pretty close.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    What about when he executes Elektra's security guy in his truck?
    Now that was pretty cold.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • Mr_OsatoMr_Osato Posts: 398MI6 Agent
    Brosnan had some great 'cold' kills. Alec's death, the death of the Swiss banker (with great stare afterwards), Electra's death, Dr Kauffman.

    It is a shame he never got a 'Craig' style Bond movie, because he could have pulled it off. Like Dalton, he does have the look of a cold killer, as long as he has the material to work with.
    OHMSS, FRWL, DN, GF, CR, GE, SP, YOLT, TB, TSWLM, LALD, TLD, TND, FYEO, SF, MR, TMWTGG, TWINE, OP, AVTAK, DAF, LTK, QOS, DAD

    1. Connery 2. Craig 3. Brosnan 4. Dalton 5. Lazenby 6. Moore
  • zaphod99zaphod99 Posts: 1,415MI6 Agent
    Mr_Osato wrote:
    Brosnan had some great 'cold' kills. Alec's death, the death of the Swiss banker (with great stare afterwards), Electra's death, Dr Kauffman.

    It is a shame he never got a 'Craig' style Bond movie, because he could have pulled it off. Like Dalton, he does have the look of a cold killer, as long as he has the material to work with.

    I agree. However I sometimes feel that in those moments Brosnan is playing Dalton playing Bond. Good as he is in those scenes I always suspect that Dalton would have just added a little topspin, a little more oomph.
    Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 SwitzerlandPosts: 870MI6 Agent
    I was watching TWINE last night and I love the film. Brosnan has many dark moments in this film.

    Overall TWINE ages very well now after it looked a bit bland for a certain time. But nowadays I think (would claim) we all wished we got some straightforward direction and camera angles back in recent cinema.

    TWINE will look even better in another five years I'd say. Brosnan really is a much better actor in his Bond films than meets the eye at first look.

    Brosnan gets some decent Bond character development, or should I say, look at his psyche and personality in all his films.
    It's a great arch even if you look closely from GE to DAD.
    I'm surprised how hard Brosnan comes across in his films. He's quite the relentless killer and even killing machine (in TND).
    A fact that gets overlooked way too easily, because the action in his films is very prominent and in the forefront mostly.
    Dalton Rulez™
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    I was watching TWINE last night and I love the film. Brosnan has many dark moments in this film.

    Overall TWINE ages very well now after it looked a bit bland for a certain time. But nowadays I think (would claim) we all wished we got some straightforward direction and camera angles back in recent cinema.

    TWINE will look even better in another five years I'd say. Brosnan really is a much better actor in his Bond films than meets the eye at first look.

    Brosnan gets some decent Bond character development, or should I say, look at his psyche and personality in all his films.
    It's a great arch even if you look closely from GE to DAD.
    I'm surprised how hard Brosnan comes across in his films. He's quite the relentless killer and even killing machine (in TND).
    A fact that gets overlooked way too easily, because the action in his films is very prominent and in the forefront mostly.

    I agree with all that, especially the part about how well TWINE ages. It's not the most ambitious Bond film, but it hardly reminds me of 1999, and I really appreciate that about it.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    I agree with all that, especially the part about how well TWINE ages. It's not the most ambitious Bond film, but it hardly reminds me of 1999, and I really appreciate that about it.
    The touch screen CRT!
    MY EYES!
    It's so 90s it hurts
    a reasonable rate of return
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    I agree with all that, especially the part about how well TWINE ages. It's not the most ambitious Bond film, but it hardly reminds me of 1999, and I really appreciate that about it.
    The touch screen CRT!
    MY EYES!
    It's so 90s it hurts

    Hey! They had widescreen Fujitsu plasma screens though, and a Palm Pilot on the pipeline survey buggy.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Western Mass, USAPosts: 9,062MI6 Agent
    The Alec thing and the Xenya thing were dark no doubt, but his coldest Bond was certainly in TWINE, IMO.
    Dalton & Connery rule. Brozz was cool.
    #1.TLD/LTK 2.TND 3.GF 4.GE 5.DN 6.FYEO 7.FRWL 8.TMWTGG 9.TWINE 10.YOLT/QOS
  • Agent KinoAgent Kino New YorkPosts: 202MI6 Agent
    I think Goldeneye is definitely the answer here. Bond fighting an old ally of his. I mean the entire movie was setup to be dark.
    1. Goldfinger 2. Skyfall 3. Goldeneye 4. The Spy Who Loved Me 5. OHMSS
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    "I never joke about my work, 007."
  • RemingtonRemington CAPosts: 239MI6 Agent
    I was watching TWINE last night and I love the film. Brosnan has many dark moments in this film.

    Overall TWINE ages very well now after it looked a bit bland for a certain time. But nowadays I think (would claim) we all wished we got some straightforward direction and camera angles back in recent cinema.

    TWINE will look even better in another five years I'd say. Brosnan really is a much better actor in his Bond films than meets the eye at first look.

    Brosnan gets some decent Bond character development, or should I say, look at his psyche and personality in all his films.
    It's a great arch even if you look closely from GE to DAD.
    I'm surprised how hard Brosnan comes across in his films. He's quite the relentless killer and even killing machine (in TND).
    A fact that gets overlooked way too easily, because the action in his films is very prominent and in the forefront mostly.
    Perfectly said. Glad you enjoyed it more than usual.
    -{
    1. Connery 2. Moore 3. Dalton 4. Brosnan 5. Craig 6. Lazenby
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    edited February 2018
    Matt S wrote:
    I agree with all that, especially the part about how well TWINE ages. It's not the most ambitious Bond film, but it hardly reminds me of 1999, and I really appreciate that about it.
    The touch screen CRT!
    MY EYES!
    It's so 90s it hurts

    Hey! They had widescreen Fujitsu plasma screens though, and a Palm Pilot on the pipeline survey buggy.
    Yes, those are quite impressive but still... :)) what were they smoking?
    It looked like a Pilot but it's an HP, apparently.
    a reasonable rate of return
  • Miles MesservyMiles Messervy Posts: 1,772MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    Overall TWINE ages very well now after it looked a bit bland for a certain time. But nowadays I think (would claim) we all wished we got some straightforward direction and camera angles back in recent cinema.

    TWINE will look even better in another five years I'd say. Brosnan really is a much better actor in his Bond films than meets the eye at first look..

    I agree with all that, especially the part about how well TWINE ages. It's not the most ambitious Bond film, but it hardly reminds me of 1999, and I really appreciate that about it.

    I also agree with this. It’s a pretty complete Bond film, and it hasn’t dated much at all. By contrast Goldeneye, Brosnan’s other strong Bond film, is incredibly dated. I will admit that I find that aspect to be charming, but I could also see it as a drawback.

    As for the darkest Brosnan moments, the killings of Alec and Electra are both strong contenders, but I also like when Bond re-sets the timers at the beginning of Goldeneye. It tells us that Bond is prepared to sacrifice both his friend and himself to get the job done. It’s a very Fleming-sequel moment.
  • Revolver66Revolver66 Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 470MI6 Agent
    edited February 2018
    For my vote i'd say that TWINE is definitely the film that showcased his Bond's darker side the best. If for no other reason than the relationship with Electra. When Bond becomes involved with her it is implied that he had developed feelings for her that he normally doesn't (at least in Brosnan's era), and the way he just buries those feelings and blows her away is the darkest his Bond got. It's also a great scene for him and one of the best scenes in his tenure. Absolute cold kill and he sells it brilliantly. Great moment from a weaker entry. Brosnan was sensational in TWINE. He brings some grit that wasn't in his first 2 outings.
  • Silhouette ManSilhouette Man The last refuge of a scoundrelPosts: 8,845MI6 Agent
    Revolver66 wrote:
    For my vote i'd say that TWINE is definitely the film that showcased his Bond's darker side the best. If for no other reason than the relationship with Electra. When Bond becomes involved with her it is implied that he had developed feelings for her that he normally doesn't (at least in Brosnan's era), and the way he just buries those feelings and blows her away is the darkest his Bond got. It's also a great scene for him and one of the best scenes in his tenure. Absolute cold kill and he sells it brilliantly. Great moment from a weaker entry. Brosnan was sensational in TWINE. He brings some grit that wasn't in his first 2 outings.

    Although I think TWINE is Brosnan's best Bond film I am in complete agreement with you otherwise. -{
    "The tough man of the world. The Secret Agent. The man who was only a silhouette." - Ian Fleming, Moonraker (1955).
  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,860Chief of Staff
    I've always been a TWINE supporter and felt lukewarm about GE, and it's good to see recent posts about both films heading in that direction.
  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    Barbel wrote:
    I've always been a TWINE supporter and felt lukewarm about GE, and it's good to see recent posts about both films heading in that direction.

    I'm another who feels this way.
    Visit my blog, Bond Suits
  • heartbroken_mr_draxheartbroken_mr_drax New Zealand Posts: 2,073MI6 Agent
    I for one am rejoicing in the recent love for TWINE!

    Brosnan's best performance hands down and one of the best performances by any of the Bond actors.
    1. TWINE 2. FYEO 3. MR 4. TLD 5. TSWLM 6. OHMSS 7. DN 8. OP 9. AVTAK 10. TMWTGG 11. QoS 12. GE 13. CR 14. TB 15. FRWL 16. TND 17. LTK 18. GF 19. SF 20. LaLD 21. YOLT 22. NTTD 23. DAD 24. DAF. 25. SP

    "Better make that two."
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    Don't get me wrong; I love TWINE as it works script-wise, as a concept and a character study but the problems for me lied in the direction and pacing departments. It slowed down too much in the end and the action didn't feel as hard hitting or made such an impact on me as GE's mowing-down-of-soldiers did. It just felt...expected. Something you thought you'd seen in a Bond movie before but hadn't. I do like that the action lies heavily on the story and the characters and it wasn't just mindless explosions and death for a change.

    I've made peace with the fact that it wasn't that kind of action movie. It was an actually decent Bond movie for the Brosnan era...just not worthy of the Brosnan era (it goes both ways).
    a reasonable rate of return
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