Ronson in SF was pretty much sacrificed, I know he was only a minor character, but died for the good of the mission, and Bond seemed more upset about that than Severine.
I have to admit that AVTAK is a guilty pleasure of mine. Walken as Zorin and one of John Barry's best scores makes it a fun watch.
There's no question though: FYEO is the better film, with a much better, harder edged story in the vein of a Cold War thriller, like Fleming's novels. The film isn't without its problems but its still much better than AVTAK because it returns to the source material for the first time since the 60s and delivers a film that is actually representative of the novels and character.
For me it's no contest, with AVTAK being the clear winner.
Where AVTAK has the edge:
-John Barry score is such a treat to hear, compared to the grating Bill Conti score. I'm not saying Bill did a bad job, it's just that his soundscape has dated horribly to my ears.
-PTS is much cooler. I don't like the California Girls song any more than you do, but it's a small price to pay for an otherwise thrilling escapade behind enemy lines. The FYEO PTS tries to avenge Tracy, but does so in cringeworthy, embarrassing fashion. Instead of witnessing a ruthless end to Blofeld, fans are instead wondering why Bond would want a stainless steel delicatessen.
-Title Sequence and song: Duran Duran delivers one of the best Bond songs and Binder adds a welcome dose of cool 80's style. FYEO has a decent song, but it just becomes a rather standard music video.
-Main Villains: Christopher Walken and Grace Jones are light years ahead of the bland, forgettable baddies in FYEO.
-Plot: Articles have been written about how Zorin's plan could actually work and it is still being talked about today. FYEO's plot is so razor thin it barely has an actual narrative. Bond is simply searching for a MacGuffin. In real life the codes would be changed and it wouldn't even matter. The subplot involving Bibi Dahl is so pointless it makes me wonder why she was included in the script.
Where FYEO has the edge:
-The Car Chase: The Citroen chase is an inspired bit of driving as Bond has to rely on his abilities with an underpowered car with no gadgets to escape a fleet of baddies. The San Francisco firetruck chase scene is one of my least favorite in the series. Bond decides to climb into the rear of the firetruck just to swing the vehicle back and forth a tiny bit and deter the police cars? Silly. The keystone cops are better than JW Pepper, but not by much.
-Fleming Material: FYEO incorporates 2 complete short stories, a LALD keel haul and the GF indentigraph sequence. AVTAK has almost nothing from Fleming except maybe DAF horse racing material. However, AVTAK does have a very Fleming-esque feel to it with Zorin's WWII backstory and focus on spying and investigating.
Where both films are roughly equal:
Bond: Roger delivers a steller, well-rounded likable performance in both films. Physically he seems in better shape in AVTAK, but slightly younger in FYEO.
-Girls: Melina is pretty good with that crossbow and the Countess is a welcome highlight midway thru the film. Bibi has way too much screen time for not having any purpose on the story. Stacy would honestly be one of my favorite Bond girls if they would have edited out a few of her blood curdling screams. She is a smart and competent geologist who loves her cats. Pola Ivanova (or Corvette) doesn't serve much point in AVTAK. If the part was played by Barbara Bach it would have been more fun.
Overall I would give AVTAK a 7/10 and FYEO a 3/10
My current 10 favorite:
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
The FYEO PTS tries to avenge Tracy, but does so in cringeworthy, embarrassing fashion. Instead of witnessing a ruthless end to Blofeld, fans are instead wondering why Bond would want a stainless steel delicatessen.
the final fate of "Blofeld" is pretty stoopid and has a campy tone inconsistent with the rest of the movie. Sort of like with the recent SPECTRE, they seem to be displaying contempt for the whole Blofeld concept, and we know in real life McClory was beginning work on his long-threatened Thunderball remake at this time. Too bad, because the unseen baddy behind all the other baddies was once a very good idea.
Articles have been written about how Zorin's plan could actually work and it is still being talked about today.
do you have links to any of these articles? I said upthread I had difficulties believing the loss of a few microchips could destabilize the western economy, but that's probably due to me thinking about it in 2018 terms instead of 1985.
Or did you just mean the geologic aspect, which is easier for me to grasp.
AVTAK has almost nothing from Fleming except maybe DAF horse racing material. However, AVTAK does have a very Fleming-esque feel to it with Zorin's WWII backstory and focus on spying and investigating.
one of these days I'm going to have to compare the Saratoga scenes from Fleming's DAF with the scenes on Zorin's estate. From memory, the Spangled mob is substituting one horse for another to rig the bets and win big. Zorin is drugging his horses with illegal steroids? Maybe Tibbet sort of substitutes for the Leiter part in these scenes? Are there any other similarities?
The basic skeleton of the story is Goldfinger, though most the most recognisable elements are from the film rather than the book.
There is a lot more from Gardner than Fleming, three of his first four novels. The Ascot scenes where Tibbet, Zorin and Mayday are all introduced is very similar to a scene from Licence Renewed, more so than any DAF similarities.
say thanks for finding those articles Firemass, that's real interesting stuff.
and you're right, Zorin's plan is more realistic than say Drax's, or the other comic book style villains, and much more straightforward than most of the other Glenn-era villains.
and I wasn't crazy, it was dependent on that certain moment in time. The dawn of the PC revolution. The first article is the best one, it argues even shortly after the film was released, demand for computers was increasing so fast much of that physical production was already being off-shored to cheaper labour markets, with cheaper real estate and laxer environmental regulations.
And the whole industry was created by programmers, not accountants, programmers of all people know to build in redundancy. (though a lot of those cheap labour offshore locations are also sitting on the Pacific Ring of Fire)
The article points out the real damage would not be to supply of microchips, but to the knowledge base concentrated in that tiny area. Even today that would lead to economic chaos.
When I first saw this film was approx., 2002, when I was living on the West Coast and working in a specialised niche in the hi-tech economy. Even then the notion the worlds supply of microchips was once concentrated in one earthquake prone valley was hard to appreciate, it was already ancient history, and must be even moreso now. So this film's premise actually requires knowledge of history as much as do some of the more hardcore cold war plots!
I'm rewatching For Your Eyes Only as I type this. The film looks fabulous (I've got the BluRay on) but what strikes me this time around is how flat most of the performances are. Pretty much everyone delivers their lines as if sedated - even big, theatrical performers like Topol.
There's much to enjoy about the film, but for me John Glen's inexperience dealing with actors harms it.
With reference to the above, I wonder if the excess of low-key performances in For Your Eyes Only was commented on within Eon. It's noticeable in the John Glen Bonds that followed there is always at least one actor giving a really big performance to gee things up and add a little showmanship to the proceedings.
I'm thinking especially of Steven Berkoff in Octopussy, Christopher Walken and Grace Jones in A View to a Kill, Joe Don Baker and Jeroen Krabbé in The Living Daylights, and the terrifically evil pairing of Robert Davi and Benicio Del Toto in Licence to Kill.
By this final film the performances have improved all round, and there is a real sense that actors have been let off the leash and are really going for it (take a bow Anthony Zerbe, Wayne Newton and Anthony Starke).
The problem I have with the performances in For Your Eyes Only is certainly not due to the quality of the actors. Jill Bennett, for example, was a wonderful actress, she's just saddled with an underwritten part that gives her nothing to do.
Tanya Roberts's character is very screamy, a weak woman after several strong female leads in a row. Acting-wise I'm not persuaded she is a professional geologist, but I guess could be. I preferred her acting in That 70s Show, she delivered some hilarious lines in that series.
Midge: "I didn't know we had that, that stuff in our neighbourhood! and to think of all the times we had to drive to the other side of town to..."
Bob: "ixnay, Midge, ixnay"
Tanya Roberts had one of my all time favorite TV lines when the grown-ups on That 70s Show went to see Star Wars and she asked Bob: 'Is this a true story?'
Well, For Your Eyes Only takes the helm. It is my favourite Bond film after all, and there are several reasons to explain why.
I love the performances from all the actors, even Lynn Holly Johnson I kid you not, the exotic locations in Europe, the back to basics plot which felt like John Glen really went out of his way to bring us back to Ian Fleming, Bill Conti's score, the incredible action sequences such as the ski scene and car chase, the casino scene but especially Moore's performance. In fact the only flaws I had with the film were Blofeld's demise and Kristatos's death (which wasn't James Bond who ended him).
A View To A Kill, much like Licence To Kill is an underrated picture. It has many fun and enjoyable bond factors in it, hosts arguably the greatest villain in the series alongside Sanchez, terrific San Francisco locations and some decent action sequences (including the fire truck chase which didn't even feel cheesy to me due to Barry's score playing over it) and the plot.
Comments
There's no question though: FYEO is the better film, with a much better, harder edged story in the vein of a Cold War thriller, like Fleming's novels. The film isn't without its problems but its still much better than AVTAK because it returns to the source material for the first time since the 60s and delivers a film that is actually representative of the novels and character.
8. TMwtGG 9. AVtaK 10. TSWLM 11. SF 12. LtK 13. TND 14. YOLT
15. NTtD 16. MR 17. LaLD 18. GF 19. SP 20. DN 21. TB
22. TWiNE 23. DAD 24. QoS 25. DaF
Where AVTAK has the edge:
-John Barry score is such a treat to hear, compared to the grating Bill Conti score. I'm not saying Bill did a bad job, it's just that his soundscape has dated horribly to my ears.
-PTS is much cooler. I don't like the California Girls song any more than you do, but it's a small price to pay for an otherwise thrilling escapade behind enemy lines. The FYEO PTS tries to avenge Tracy, but does so in cringeworthy, embarrassing fashion. Instead of witnessing a ruthless end to Blofeld, fans are instead wondering why Bond would want a stainless steel delicatessen.
-Title Sequence and song: Duran Duran delivers one of the best Bond songs and Binder adds a welcome dose of cool 80's style. FYEO has a decent song, but it just becomes a rather standard music video.
-Main Villains: Christopher Walken and Grace Jones are light years ahead of the bland, forgettable baddies in FYEO.
-Plot: Articles have been written about how Zorin's plan could actually work and it is still being talked about today. FYEO's plot is so razor thin it barely has an actual narrative. Bond is simply searching for a MacGuffin. In real life the codes would be changed and it wouldn't even matter. The subplot involving Bibi Dahl is so pointless it makes me wonder why she was included in the script.
Where FYEO has the edge:
-The Car Chase: The Citroen chase is an inspired bit of driving as Bond has to rely on his abilities with an underpowered car with no gadgets to escape a fleet of baddies. The San Francisco firetruck chase scene is one of my least favorite in the series. Bond decides to climb into the rear of the firetruck just to swing the vehicle back and forth a tiny bit and deter the police cars? Silly. The keystone cops are better than JW Pepper, but not by much.
-Fleming Material: FYEO incorporates 2 complete short stories, a LALD keel haul and the GF indentigraph sequence. AVTAK has almost nothing from Fleming except maybe DAF horse racing material. However, AVTAK does have a very Fleming-esque feel to it with Zorin's WWII backstory and focus on spying and investigating.
Where both films are roughly equal:
Bond: Roger delivers a steller, well-rounded likable performance in both films. Physically he seems in better shape in AVTAK, but slightly younger in FYEO.
-Girls: Melina is pretty good with that crossbow and the Countess is a welcome highlight midway thru the film. Bibi has way too much screen time for not having any purpose on the story. Stacy would honestly be one of my favorite Bond girls if they would have edited out a few of her blood curdling screams. She is a smart and competent geologist who loves her cats. Pola Ivanova (or Corvette) doesn't serve much point in AVTAK. If the part was played by Barbara Bach it would have been more fun.
Overall I would give AVTAK a 7/10 and FYEO a 3/10
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
do you have links to any of these articles? I said upthread I had difficulties believing the loss of a few microchips could destabilize the western economy, but that's probably due to me thinking about it in 2018 terms instead of 1985.
Or did you just mean the geologic aspect, which is easier for me to grasp.
one of these days I'm going to have to compare the Saratoga scenes from Fleming's DAF with the scenes on Zorin's estate. From memory, the Spangled mob is substituting one horse for another to rig the bets and win big. Zorin is drugging his horses with illegal steroids? Maybe Tibbet sort of substitutes for the Leiter part in these scenes? Are there any other similarities?
The basic skeleton of the story is Goldfinger, though most the most recognisable elements are from the film rather than the book.
There is a lot more from Gardner than Fleming, three of his first four novels. The Ascot scenes where Tibbet, Zorin and Mayday are all introduced is very similar to a scene from Licence Renewed, more so than any DAF similarities.
I can't even find the one I remembered reading, but here's a few others:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/08/view_to_a_kill/
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016/07/04/silicon-valley-70-rounds-counting/
https://gizmodo.com/horse-racing-and-the-weaponized-landscape-of-silicon-va-1571402843
1. GE 2. MR 3. OP 4. TMWTGG 5. TSWLM 6. TND 7. TWINE 8.DN 9. GF 10. AVTAK
and you're right, Zorin's plan is more realistic than say Drax's, or the other comic book style villains, and much more straightforward than most of the other Glenn-era villains.
and I wasn't crazy, it was dependent on that certain moment in time. The dawn of the PC revolution. The first article is the best one, it argues even shortly after the film was released, demand for computers was increasing so fast much of that physical production was already being off-shored to cheaper labour markets, with cheaper real estate and laxer environmental regulations.
And the whole industry was created by programmers, not accountants, programmers of all people know to build in redundancy. (though a lot of those cheap labour offshore locations are also sitting on the Pacific Ring of Fire)
The article points out the real damage would not be to supply of microchips, but to the knowledge base concentrated in that tiny area. Even today that would lead to economic chaos.
When I first saw this film was approx., 2002, when I was living on the West Coast and working in a specialised niche in the hi-tech economy. Even then the notion the worlds supply of microchips was once concentrated in one earthquake prone valley was hard to appreciate, it was already ancient history, and must be even moreso now. So this film's premise actually requires knowledge of history as much as do some of the more hardcore cold war plots!
There's much to enjoy about the film, but for me John Glen's inexperience dealing with actors harms it.
I'm thinking especially of Steven Berkoff in Octopussy, Christopher Walken and Grace Jones in A View to a Kill, Joe Don Baker and Jeroen Krabbé in The Living Daylights, and the terrifically evil pairing of Robert Davi and Benicio Del Toto in Licence to Kill.
By this final film the performances have improved all round, and there is a real sense that actors have been let off the leash and are really going for it (take a bow Anthony Zerbe, Wayne Newton and Anthony Starke).
The problem I have with the performances in For Your Eyes Only is certainly not due to the quality of the actors. Jill Bennett, for example, was a wonderful actress, she's just saddled with an underwritten part that gives her nothing to do.
Both are great to me so difficult to answer :007)
FYEO was infamously revised and it wasn't that detailed a poster anyway.
However, the "Eyes" one made a much bigger impact on pop culture.
Tanya Roberts had one of my all time favorite TV lines when the grown-ups on That 70s Show went to see Star Wars and she asked Bob: 'Is this a true story?'
I love the performances from all the actors, even Lynn Holly Johnson I kid you not, the exotic locations in Europe, the back to basics plot which felt like John Glen really went out of his way to bring us back to Ian Fleming, Bill Conti's score, the incredible action sequences such as the ski scene and car chase, the casino scene but especially Moore's performance. In fact the only flaws I had with the film were Blofeld's demise and Kristatos's death (which wasn't James Bond who ended him).
A View To A Kill, much like Licence To Kill is an underrated picture. It has many fun and enjoyable bond factors in it, hosts arguably the greatest villain in the series alongside Sanchez, terrific San Francisco locations and some decent action sequences (including the fire truck chase which didn't even feel cheesy to me due to Barry's score playing over it) and the plot.
1. Dalton 2. Moore 3. Connery 4. Lazenby 5. Craig 6. Brosnan
Michael Gothard is very underrated as Emile Locque.
James Bond- Licence To Kill