Skyfall - Silva question

Halcon

I'm sure i've asked this somewhere else before....so to be an MI6 00 agent, one doesnt have to be English? (it's a question that hits me EVERY TIME i see Skyfall and forget to ask) ?:)

Westward_Drift

Halcon wrote:

I'm sure i've asked this somewhere else before....so to be an MI6 00 agent, one doesnt have to be English? (it's a question that hits me EVERY TIME i see Skyfall and forget to ask) ?:)

Silva was an MI6 agent but I don't think he was a 00. We only know he worked for M in the 90s when she was Hong Kong section chief.

Gassy Man

I don't know that one has to specifically be English either.

Matt S

James Bond is not English, but perhaps you really meant British? There have been many MI6 agents throughout the series from all over the world, but all of the 00 agents have been assumed to be British.

caractacus potts

they alsho hire shcotshmen

Matt S wrote:

There have been many MI6 agents throughout the series from all over the world

good point, all those Section heads Bond meets while travelling, like Kerim Bey or Dikko Henderson ... theyre not all British are they? most of them must be local citizens who for whatever reason have agreed to work with British Intelliegence (which must be treason for some of them).

What exactly was Sylva's job title?

and does anybody remember the backstories of all those local Section heads? Fleming must have written a few paragraphs to establish each of those characters, because that sort of thing was related to his own Intelligence experience.
Kerim Bey in particular I don't think was British.

IanFryer

I may be completely wrong here, but IIRC Bond is not, in the strictest sense, an agent of MI6 but rather an officer of MI6. The difference, I guess, being that he is directly employed by the Secret Intelligence Service. Do we know if Silva's relationship with MI6 was the same, or if he was more strictly an agent, i.e. working in a more unofficial, arms-length capacity?

Someone with more knowledge of the real-life workings of the secret service might know more about this.

Number24

I know Norwegian citizens were MI6 (Autocorrect wanted to write "MI6community" )) agents during WWII, many of them fully trained in the UK. Is this how it works in current conflict areas such as Syria and Mali today?

Halcon

thank you all for your replies!

Bond44

N24 you are never going to get an answer on current conflicts for obvious reasons (OPSEC) However some food for thought.

Suffice to say (and most of this is freely available on Google) you can deduce certain aspects of possibility. Most foreign agents can be locally recruited and run by officers or handlers a host or foreign nation they work or report too. If you look back to the past to the most famous examples, this was the best modus operandi during the old World Wars and Cold War days. Look at the US series ‘The Americans’ for example loosely based on some truth of the time.

To be an Officer or agent handler of the host nation you will need to be a legitimate citizen of that nation (generally assumed to have deeper loyalties and traceability). You will be traceable in order to be vetted and pass deep security and background checks (the level is deliberately both intimidating and frightening amazing what the state security service can dig up or what come back to haunt from the past). If successful tests both physical and mental follow and of course specialist training in due course if you pass these. Most organisations follow a selection, recruitment and training process to deliver the end product they want (under constant review and assessment where failure is definitely an option). This has to be completed before anyone becomes operational and receives assignments in the service of the host nation at home or abroad.

Some foreign nationals may desire to serve another nation or change nationality for their chosen cause or belief, but if recruited most likely will be encouraged not to do so in order to maintain their cover and usefulness where they reside. Think Kim Philby and crew, to be useful to mother Russia they had to fully embrace the UK establishment (and did even though it seemingly repulsed them as communists) to be useful agents for decades as agents of the state, but they were run by Russian handlers.

There are many examples from both World Wars and the Cold War of similar examples (even in Bonds world as well thanks to Flemings experiences). Reality is any security service will assess each overseas opportunity to recruit ‘sources’ individually based on merit, usefulness and operational output to determine best approach in handling.

This may account for ‘foreigners’ (like Silva) seen as working in SIS when in fact the report to or work for them.

Of course the new dynamic of the modern world is many countries are multi cultural and so people can be 2nd or 3rd generation living in one country but the family originated from another, so it may be possible to recruit home grown talent you could logically deploy or embed overseas think Skyfall (or the converse threat of course i.e could be recruited by foreign powers - beware the enemy from within as many nations now experience).

It’s a complex world ‘Christ I miss the Cold War’

Cheers :007)

Number24

Thank you for your interesting post, even though it's much like I assumed it to be. I'm still unsure what the system was during WWII. My impression is that Norwegians and people from other occupied nations who were trained by the SIS/MI6 and sent back on missions can be classified as MI6 agents even without being British citizens, but I think they can. One examples is Oluf Reed Olsen who even gets mentioned on the SIS home page.

Bond44

Number24 wrote:

Thank you for your interesting post, even though it's much like I assumed it to be. I'm still unsure what the system was during WWII. My impression is that Norwegians and people from other occupied nations who were trained by the SIS/MI6 and sent back on missions can be classified as MI6 agents even without being British citizens, but I think they can. One examples is Oluf Reed Olsen who even gets mentioned on the SIS home page.

They were obviously not UK nationals so probably recruited foreign nationals with ‘Agent’ status serving SIS masters. Similar to French or Polish Fighter pilots etc they served with the UK Armed forces but were not classed as UK nationals (later returning to their home nation). However they needed a base country to operate from due to occupation of their own at the time and so played their part in the collective ‘War Effort’.

Cheers :007)

Number24

I think so too. I find Oluf Reed Olsen interesting. I knew of him because he played himself in the 1958 movie "Kontakt!", but now I think I'll read his book "Two eggs on my plate" too.

Bond44

Number24 wrote:

I think so too. I find Oluf Reed Olsen interesting. I knew of him because he played himself in the 1958 movie "Kontakt!", but now I think I'll read his book "Two eggs on my plate" too.

I guess not many get immortalise themselves twice in history and film

No doubt it will be a good read reality (when linked to real operations in war) can sometimes but much more interesting than fiction.

Cheers :007)

Number24

In the first fifteen years or so three Norwegian war movies were made with the real people in many of the roles. "Kontakt!" about a MI6 radio station near Kristiansand, "Shetlandsgjengen" about civilian fishing vessels crewed by SOE personel traficking the North Sea and "The battle of the heavy water" about the famous sabotasje mission. All three had some of the most highly decorated war heroes in the country (in one or two examples - the world) playing themselves on real missions. I don't know of any foreign examples of this.

ironpony

Perhaps Silva not being British made him a better spy cause it made him blend in better in certain situations, cause the enemy didn't think he was British, compared to a British person going undercover?

I never really understood why spy agencies don't accept foreigners, cause foreigners can do better spy work, if they are not suspected to be from that country. I read that you have to be born in the U.S. to join the CIA, yet if the CIA wanted to spy in a foreign country, it would be easier for someone from that country with that race and accent to go undercover, wouldn't it?

JTM

Lots of interesting posts on this thread but no one seems to be even considering the possibility that Silva could be UK born and therefore a British citizen? There’s barely anything known about Silva’s (Tiago Rodriguez) background other than he lived on an island with a rat problem for a period when he was younger and that he has Portuguese ancestry (Bardem’s conformation). So just because he’s Hispanic and may have Portuguese ancestors doesn’t rule out the possibility that his parent/s lived in the UK when he was born or were even British citizens themselves. Whatever the case is, I’d wager that he’s completed some form of schooling/university in the UK judging by his excellent English speaking, strong vocabulary and slight accent.

Ornithologist

Alec Trevelyan (006) was also not born British (but most likely got citizenship later, like Silva could have).

Number24

Sometimes foreign born people can be among the most loyal, such as the French Foreign Legion or the Varangian Guard in Constantinople who were often Norse.

Barbel

Halcon wrote:

I'm sure i've asked this somewhere else before....so to be an MI6 00 agent, one doesnt have to be English? (it's a question that hits me EVERY TIME i see Skyfall and forget to ask) ?:)

MI6 is an arm of the government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ("UK" for short). The UK consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland therefore anyone from those member countries is eligible to join MI6.

"Great Britain" is a geographical term rather than a political one, referring to the largest of the British Isles (a collection of islands including GB, Ireland (geographically), the Isle Of Man, the Hebrides, Shetlands, etc etc.) It's called "Great Britain" to distinguish it from what is nowadays called Brittany. Therefore the word "British" can apply geographically to a person from these islands.

The character James Bond as specified by Ian Fleming has a Scottish father and a Swiss mother, and was educated in England and Scotland. Fleming makes almost nothing of Bond's Swiss ancestry, preferring to stress Scotland and England (see OHMSS, YOLT, TMWTGG). Indisputably James Bond is BRITISH as have been most of the actors who have played him (Connery: Scottish, Moore: English, Dalton: Welsh/English, Brosnan: Irish, Craig: English + Niven: English/Scottish) with the obvious exceptions of Lazenby (Australian) and Nelson (American).

Halcon

very interesting and informative responses, thank you all again!