Should the film Bond hold and fire a gun with two hands or one?

osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
The Connery and Lazenby era had them holding and firing a gun with one hand. Later Bonds used the two-hand grip of law-enforcement officers. I know that that latter is more realistic, but I think it ruins the look of Bond—if that makes sense. Technically, it is possible to aim and fire a gun using one hand, and that the two-hand grip has just become the preferred choice these days—almost out of convention—both by law-enforcement officer and filmmakers.

Comments

  • Matt SMatt S Oh Cult Voodoo ShopPosts: 6,610MI6 Agent
    I don't think Bond will go back to one-handed shooting. People want realism these days. But I think the two-handed pose can look really cool too.

    roger-moore-james-bond-for-your-eyes-only-1981-_HEHFE4.jpg
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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy Behind you !Posts: 63,792MI6 Agent
    I always loved how Sir Sean, fired from the hip -{ maybe not
    Accurate or recommended, but it did look cool.
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  • caractacus pottscaractacus potts Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 4,108MI6 Agent
    Bond is supposed to look cool, so he should hold his gun whichever way looks coolest.
    The armies of minions just fall over and go to sleep anyway, Bond doesn't need to aim for that to happen.

    when CraigBond shot down Blofeld's helicopter from a kilometre away, how many hands was he using?
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    Matt S wrote:
    I don't think Bond will go back to one-handed shooting. People want realism these days. But I think the two-handed pose can look really cool too.

    roger-moore-james-bond-for-your-eyes-only-1981-_HEHFE4.jpg

    Yes, Moore seemed to pull this off better than the others after him—especially in the gun barrel sequence used before LALD and TMWTGG. For some reason, Moore’s use of the two-hand grip doesn’t make him look like a TV detectives from the 1980s onwards.
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,330MI6 Agent
    I think it should depends on the situation. If it's an aimed shot with a more powerful gun he should use both hands. In fast-draw situations it's logical with one handed shooting. Estetical considerations are also important.
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    I always loved how Sir Sean, fired from the hip -{ maybe not
    Accurate or recommended, but it did look cool.

    This is what I had in mind about Connery’s use of a gun.

    Does anyone know when the two-hand grip first came to be used by the police, CIA etc? According to the following it came in in the 1950s:

    "One handed methods were the norm before Jack Weaver started grabbing his shooting hand in the 1950's. Prior to that the training doctrines emphasized using the off hand for balance and discouraged shooters from grabbing the handgun with both hands. I guess on the theory that it would mess up one's aim. But you will sometimes see a "teacup" grip or wrist-grab being used in old photos.

    Use what works for you. Doctrine tends to become dogma, and suddenly we're all being screamed at to use the same kind of holsters and the stances that the champion shooters use. Life is not an IDPA match, and most of us are not championship shooters. More importantly, real life shooters use a wide variety of handguns some of which simply don't work as well with the techniques developed for standard 1911's or target revolvers. I use a very difference presentation and stance for a big single action magnum than a small double action, and a different one still for semis.

    For example, if you can deliver accurate, fast fire using a one handed stance go for it. It minimizes the target area for an opponent, so there's some real tactical merit to the old dueling stance. The way things work in the shooting world, I suspect in a few years it will be the new tacti-cool stance. Jack Bauer will start doing it or something"

    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/history-behind-two-handed-shooting.493772/
  • IanFryerIanFryer Posts: 327MI6 Agent
    Bearing in mind that I know nothing about guns, it's interesting to note movie fashions of pistol useage. In the thirties and forties the gun would be held down by the hip when being fired, like Bogart in this picture. It's almost as if it was thought unmanly to actually aim your gun.
    cagney-bogart-roaring-twenties-ps.jpg
    Since the 1990s we've had the sideways grip, which thankfully Bond had avoided. I think it looks ridiculous but apparently prevents the gun obscuring the actor's face.

    sideways-gun.jpg

    I used to work with someone who was formerly a gun-shop owner and he told me the PPK was a very accurate gun but so small and light that it was very difficult to aim successfully, which I guess would make a two-handed grip more practical.
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
    Every Bond has used the one-handed shooting style, and done so for...style. Each time evokes a Western gun-slinger vibe, which has always been part of the Bond iconography in both the books and movies. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s better than the two-fisted style, which serves to ground Bond to the reality of professional marksmen that also is part of Bond’s characterization that had been a hallmark in the books (concurrently with the cowboy iconography) compared to the films that only started getting “serious” in the Moore era.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • sniperUKsniperUK UlsterPosts: 594MI6 Agent
    Time and place, in the 60s the Fairburn Sykes Applegate was the most used, developed originally for the Shanghai police and adopted by the commandos, SOE etc , surpassed in the late 60s -70 by Weaver .
    You will find Connery using F/S styles.

    http://www.pointshooting.com/faschap.htm
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    Dc shoots one handed quite often, in Skyfall when he shoots the fire extinguisher and in Sp outside the klinik. Obviously he had to while firing at hinx from the plane, but a bit risky given madeline was in the car. Given the time in any situation a proper stance is best, but these are films Connerys almost flippant shooting looked great and went with his casual nature, while for me Brozzer gives the best chuckle firing two auto rifles (mp5k?) at once! All good fun. At least bond has never adopted the gangsta habit of holding a pistol sideways. :)
    Just my opinion but I'd prefer to see bond using the centre axis relock style more, as seen in John Wick and even Denzel Washington used a variation of this with his six shooter in magnificent 7
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  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    edited August 2018
    superado wrote:
    Every Bond has used the one-handed shooting style, and done so for...style. Each time evokes a Western gun-slinger vibe, which has always been part of the Bond iconography in both the books and movies. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s better than the two-fisted style, which serves to ground Bond to the reality of professional marksmen that also is part of Bond’s characterization that had been a hallmark in the books (concurrently with the cowboy iconography) compared to the films that only started getting “serious” in the Moore era.

    I can’t recall Brosnan or Craig using a one-hand grip when reconnoitering a building, though. They always use the two-hand grip, like the police do.
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    osris wrote:
    superado wrote:
    Every Bond has used the one-handed shooting style, and done so for...style. Each time evokes a Western gun-slinger vibe, which has always been part of the Bond iconography in both the books and movies. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s better than the two-fisted style, which serves to ground Bond to the reality of professional marksmen that also is part of Bond’s characterization that had been a hallmark in the books (concurrently with the cowboy iconography) compared to the films that only started getting “serious” in the Moore era.

    I recall Connery using this method in the target practice scene in Q’s department in NSNA. And I think Moore used it also.

    I can’t recall Brosnan or Craig using a one-hand grip, especially when reconnoitering a building. They always use the two-hand grip, like the police do.

    Can't really recall Brosnan, but dc has to in the pts of CR, in the hotel de Las lunas in qoss and the pts, skyfall and Spectre. however he does use the traditional two handed a lot more.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    sniperUK wrote:
    Time and place, in the 60s the Fairburn Sykes Applegate was the most used, developed originally for the Shanghai police and adopted by the commandos, SOE etc , surpassed in the late 60s -70 by Weaver .
    You will find Connery using F/S styles.

    http://www.pointshooting.com/faschap.htm

    Yes, I recall Connery using this method in the target practice scene in Q’s department in NSNA.
  • superadosuperado Regent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
    Chriscoop wrote:
    osris wrote:
    superado wrote:
    Every Bond has used the one-handed shooting style, and done so for...style. Each time evokes a Western gun-slinger vibe, which has always been part of the Bond iconography in both the books and movies. Of course that doesn’t mean it’s better than the two-fisted style, which serves to ground Bond to the reality of professional marksmen that also is part of Bond’s characterization that had been a hallmark in the books (concurrently with the cowboy iconography) compared to the films that only started getting “serious” in the Moore era.

    I recall Connery using this method in the target practice scene in Q’s department in NSNA. And I think Moore used it also.

    I can’t recall Brosnan or Craig using a one-hand grip, especially when reconnoitering a building. They always use the two-hand grip, like the police do.

    Can't really recall Brosnan, but dc has to in the pts of CR, in the hotel de Las lunas in qoss and the pts, skyfall and Spectre. however he does use the traditional two handed a lot more.

    Just googled Pierce Brosnan Walther and it shows him using both one and two handed shooting, including of course his gunbarrel, for which I think Moore is the only one who did the two-handed grip in his two gunbarrels. Of all the Bonds, I think he's the biggest ham when it comes to his shooting poses...but don't get me wrong, I'm a big Brozzer fan! It's just that I think he approached his gunplay and fist fights in the most cinematic way possible.
    "...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
  • osrisosris Posts: 558MI6 Agent
    superado wrote:

    Just googled Pierce Brosnan Walther and it shows him using both one and two handed shooting, including of course his gunbarrel, for which I think Moore is the only one who did the two-handed grip in his two gunbarrels. Of all the Bonds, I think he's the biggest ham when it comes to his shooting poses...but don't get me wrong, I'm a big Brozzer fan! It's just that I think he approached his gunplay and fist fights in the most cinematic way possible.

    Good point.

    Off topic: I could never get over Brosnan’s dress sense as Bond. I agree with the person who once described his Bond as “Bond as dandy”. I think that’s what ruined his Bond for me—irrational as that sounds and is.
  • Cam008Cam008 Posts: 45MI6 Agent
    Horses for courses.

    Use whatever style is best for the situation.
  • I never missI never miss EnglandPosts: 47MI6 Agent
    I love Connery's one handed stance seen several times in the gypsy fight scene in FRWL. There was a Craig homage to this is the SF titles during the song if I remember correctly.
  • CRC007CRC007 Posts: 31MI6 Agent
    I think the One handed shooting style of Connery comes directly from the WWII era and is very accurate for the time DR No and From Russia With Love was made. I would have said that although it looks cool, whoever advised on the early films lifted Bond's shooting technique directly from the training of US GIs, early CIA agents, and British SOE operatives of the 1940s which would make a lot of sense for that era.
    The training of that time believed that spending valuable time lining up your sights on the target was not the best thing to do and instead used the low at the hip stance to be able to let off rounds quickly at the entire body of your enemy, not only a particular area you would have to aim at precisely. This is also where the double tap technique comes into practice, and you can see Connery do that too I believe. Firing two quick rounds from a low one handed stance was believed to be the quickest and most effective way to stop an enemy at that time although the training does state that where possible and where time permits, a properly executed two handed aim is always most accurate.

    There's a video on YouTube here covering all of the different pistol firing techniques of the allies in WW2 although stances very close to Connerys appear throughout.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jP7J-JNSUu4
  • Number24Number24 NorwayPosts: 22,330MI6 Agent
    Moore uses both hands when shooting at Locque's car in FYEO. I think he uses his left arm to support his shooting arm when firing the revolver in LALD.

    Fairbairn and Sykes' theory was that shooting first is very important. Even if you miss there's a good chance your shot will push your oponent to shoot too early too, hopefully firing many unaimed shots. That's when you have to take aimed shots at him.
  • ChriscoopChriscoop Belize Posts: 10,458MI6 Agent
    Moore also uses both hands to kill Stromburg, after shooting him down the under table gun, but then he kills Scarramanga using only one.
    DC uses one hand when the need arises, ie when storming through the embassy in the CR pts, but both later in the pts when he needs an accurate couple of shots. For me DC's two handed stance is a bit wrong and he holds the pistol to far in front of him.
    It was either that.....or the priesthood
  • Dirty PunkerDirty Punker ...Your Eyes Only, darling."Posts: 2,587MI6 Agent
    I mean, a 44 Magnum with that little recoil would make anyone wonder whether Moore was using one of Harry's "special loads".

    But then again, it's Moore's Bond and I'm talking about such stuff.
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