Danny Boyle has a talent and reputation for some really original stuff, my own hunch is he was ‘going too far’ .
Nail on head. And then some. There’s a point when Bond isn’t Bond anymore. It’s a blurry line, but there is a line. He isn’t a secondary character in his own film, and he isn’t a soapbox to air political and sexual opinions for the sake of virtue signalling.
Which does all sound very odd as, I’m assuming, Eon signed off on the script...which then makes this doubly odd ...and then you wonder what made Eon ditch their plans from a year ago... ?:)
Boyle's comedy is being distributed by Universal. I wonder if this is all just about getting a distributor (for one film if I recall which seemed odd) and to seal the deal with Universal. EON agreed to Boyle because Universal wanted him and then have since made life difficult for him and he's jumped ship. Universal do not have the option of quitting like a director or actor.
But they knew what the script was before Boyle was given the job, so that can’t be true really can it. They don’t just give the job to a Director blindly who has a script they haven’t seen, that would be really dumb.
Are you saying that there is another reason, or that Michael and Barbara are really dumb? I would assume the former.
The former. They aren’t dumb. Bond is a business to them and they run that business very tightly.
Breakeven for a Bond movie now is probably worldwide $800+ million on release. They can't afford to take "creative" risks. Reflecting on this, perhaps BB and MGW should be congratulated for protecting the beloved franchise.
Speaking at a Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts masterclass, Boyle said: "I like watching big films but I don't think I'm necessarily good at making them. Then I thought, 'No, you shouldn't think like that. The unknown is exciting. The fear is very important. If you repeat yourself you don't ask yourself enough questions, you don't feel the fear about what you're doing because you feel you know what you're doing."
Perhaps the fear got the better of him? He might have thought "the stress isn't worth it, I quit." On the other hand, perhaps he'd come to terms with any fear and was happy to go ahead but his "great idea" was compromised by Eon? It seems his idea was key to his involvement.
"We have this idea," he added, "about what we want to do with Bond and I felt we should have a go because of this idea. So we are trying to stay true to our principles."
If the idea was scrapped or heavily rewritten, Boyle might have thought he wasn't staying true to his principles.
It didn't sound like it from that response, but he was more likely being cagey about giving any possible info away... maybe anyway.
I'm pretty disappointed by the news, as I like Boyle and was fascinated to see where he would take Bond... I'm sure given the chance it would have been something quite different. Maybe one day he will reveal what he wanted to do and what went wrong.
I'm sure DC is not going anywhere... at least I hope not. My biggest fear is a Nolan/Hardy Bond ... well, more Hardy than Nolan actually.
Daniel Craig doesn't strike me as the most decisive person in the world. He turned down the role of Bond, Broccoli persuaded him, he didn't want to do a fifth, he changed his mind. Who knows, he might have liked the idea of Boyle as director but changed his mind. He didn't seem that enthusiastic about him in that video clip.
I don't mind a Chris Nolan Bond film - could be interesting, and Nolan is a huge Bond fan. Nolan is one of the most respected/high profile directors out there.
I don't want Tom Hardy as Bond. He's kind of short but putting that to one side (I'm not hugely bothered about height), I just don't get a major Bond vibe from him. I'd prefer a relative unknown over Hardy. I can't see Eon going with Hardy but just a guess.
Indeed... in fact I don't get much vibe from him at all, he just seem a bit dull in most things I've seen him in. Anyway, I guess this is not relevant to this thread, as DC will still be Bond for 25.
It didn't sound like it from that response, but he was more likely being cagey about giving any possible info away... maybe anyway.
I'm pretty disappointed by the news, as I like Boyle and was fascinated to see where he would take Bond... I'm sure given the chance it would have been something quite different. Maybe one day he will reveal what he wanted to do and what went wrong.
I'm sure DC is not going anywhere... at least I hope not. My biggest fear is a Nolan/Hardy Bond ... well, more Hardy than Nolan actually.
I remember some years ago when people here were against Nolan directing because they didn't want Leonardo Dicaprio to be James Bond....
It didn't sound like it from that response, but he was more likely being cagey about giving any possible info away... maybe anyway.
I'm pretty disappointed by the news, as I like Boyle and was fascinated to see where he would take Bond... I'm sure given the chance it would have been something quite different. Maybe one day he will reveal what he wanted to do and what went wrong.
I'm sure DC is not going anywhere... at least I hope not. My biggest fear is a Nolan/Hardy Bond ... well, more Hardy than Nolan actually.
We don't know yet if there will be a delay, but if there is then they should recast. Daniel could just about pull off 25 if the narrative supports an older Bond with less running and jumping. If however the timeline stretches to another year ( it's likely to be that as they will want to avoid a Summer release) then it starts to look very doubtful. My guess is that they will do everything possible to stick with the published timeline. Whatever happens it's a mess. The schedule was crazy tight already but they will have to go with it. We don't know how far advanced pre production was (my guess is not very) Maybe,just may be if they scale it back, make a less expensive film they could still pull it off (I hope so) They got away with Spectre, but the knives will be out this time, a combination of Boyle's jumping and Daniel's dumb comments ( which have already been repeated in every item I have read) will haunt 25 whatever happens.
The only silver lining is that CR was surrounded by fan and press negativity and turned out a corker. They EON at that time seemed to know what they were doing even if we did not. I don't get that sense this time...
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I really don't get Nolan, apart from the Dark Knight I have not been impressed with his movies and Dunkirk imho is one of the worst movies ever (give me the John Mills one any day) and as for mumbles Hardy ,please no ,he is a personality black hole.
Couldn't have put it better myself -{ Out of interest Sniper uk whereabouts in ulster you from? I spent 2 years in Ballykelly 88-90 ! Remember the Inn in Limavady with great fondness!!
I don't see why the movie should be made cheaper because of this. They have Craig, they have several of the key crew members, they have TWO scripts. The Hodge script should be far a long now, and if Boyle left because of disagreements about the story it should be easy to lock that down now that's he's gone. If IMDB is correct Yann Demage and Mackenzie will be available soon, Demage in only a few weeks. Those are talented directors EON wants and have talked to about the project earlier. That's what the press says, anyway. This could go very badly, but I don't think it has to.
Jamesbondradio are convinced the Hodge script will be tossed now. That's obviously a legal and creative issue, but I'm not sure that's a given. JBR also belive Mendes can step in, clearly not knowing he's busy making "1917" for Spielberg. They can be wrong about the script too.
I don't see why the movie should be made cheaper because of this. They have Craig, they have several of the key crew members, they have TWO scripts. The Hodge script should be far a long now, and if Boyle left because of disagreements about the story it should be easy to lock that down now that's he's gone. If IMDB is correct Yann Demage and Mackenzie will be available soon, Demage in only a few weeks. Those are talented directors EON wants and have talked to about the project earlier. That's what the press says, anyway. This could go very badly, but I don't think it has to.
I hope that you are right. For me a misstep was going 'big-bang ' after the success of Skyfall, a leaner more profitable Film at lower cost would have made sense to me at least. My assertion is based upon the pre-production schedule. When I voiced my concern to Boyle he seemed relaxed, but my friend who works at Pinewood commented that by now 'stuff' would normally be evident on the lot, but that the 'silence was deafening ' this time...
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I wonder what contracts have been signed? Can Boyle legally stop EON from using the Hodge script? would he want to?
I can’t imagine EON would cede that much control to a director. My guess is they can use the script if they want to. I imagine Purvis and Wade have already started re-writing it. )
I don't know. Normal EON hires someone to write a script from scratch. Boyle ande Hodges came to EON with the idea for the script. That's never happened before. Is it possible there was a contract where the use of the script was tied to Boyle directing it? One thing I'm convinced of: the legal status of the script was in no doubt before Boyle left. I'm sure a small army of lawyers made sure of that.
Well, who knows? Could be the Studio finally got wind of the story and stepped in to make revisions. This sort of final 'proofing' goes on a lot, after all it's being reported they were the ones who stopped Blofeld being killed at the end of Spectre though actually if that was ever an option, wtf? Why bring back a big villain like that for just one movie, unless the idea was a big thankyou to Craig because the producers are all smitten... 'We'll bring back a big villain for you for this one, then you can leave...'
Of course, Idris Elba is free. Not as Bond, for the director gig. His new film Yardie is being promoted as we speak...
I wonder what contracts have been signed? Can Boyle legally stop EON from using the Hodge script? would he want to?
I can’t imagine EON would cede that much control to a director. My guess is they can use the script if they want to. I imagine Purvis and Wade have already started re-writing it. )
Yes, that would be the best way forward. Adapt Hodge's screenplay rather than ditching it. That should mean all current pre-production work - sets, locations etc - that are locked in place don't need to be scrapped. P and W can adapt scenes and dialogue rather than starting from scratch. I guess John Hodge will get a screenwriting credit:
Screenplay by Neil Purvis, Robert Wade and John Hodge.
Casino Royale was by Neal Purvis, Robert Wade and Paul Haggis.
Purvis and Wade came up with the main storyline. Haggis was hired in August 2005 to polish their screenplay. Haggis' intention was to have a 28 year old Bond but that was dropped when Craig was cast. Bond 25 may be similar - three writers contributing. Purvis and Wade using most of Hodge's storyline but changing it to feel closer to their work. The potential downside is this will feel like a P&W Bond film whereas a Boyle/Hodge Bond film would travel a different path. I think some Bond fans were looking forward to a Danny Boyle James Bond film rather than an Eon 'Purvis and Wade' Bond film. Boyle has his own style and I assume that's one of the reasons why Eon picked him! But it's backfired.
The best way forward would be for Craig to step aside, push the release back a year, and start fresh. Like Memdes after Skyfall, Craig should’ve followed his instincts after Spectre and stepped away. Now it’s a huge mess, and even if they dodged a bullet by jettisoning Boyle and his radical ideas, it’s a predicament that exists because Craig came back.
There is now a cloud over Bond 25, and I fear it will not lift unless they begin anew.
If everyone was truly excited about the Hodge idea, I could see them using that script, but bringing Purvis and Wade in to polish it to make it closer to what EON wants.
Let’s remember that all pre-production up to this point has been on that Hodge script. If they went with anything else they would basically have to start pre-production over with 3 months to go...
I wonder what contracts have been signed? Can Boyle legally stop EON from using the Hodge script? would he want to?
I can’t imagine EON would cede that much control to a director. My guess is they can use the script if they want to. I imagine Purvis and Wade have already started re-writing it. )
Yes, that would be the best way forward. Adapt Hodge's screenplay rather than ditching it. That should mean all current pre-production work - sets, locations etc - that are locked in place don't need to be scrapped. P and W can adapt scenes and dialogue rather than starting from scratch. I guess John Hodge will get a screenwriting credit:
Screenplay by Neil Purvis, Robert Wade and John Hodge.
Casino Royale was by Neal Purvis, Robert Wade and Paul Haggis.
Purvis and Wade came up with the main storyline. Haggis was hired in August 2005 to polish their screenplay. Haggis' intention was to have a 28 year old Bond but that was dropped when Craig was cast. Bond 25 may be similar - three writers contributing. Purvis and Wade using most of Hodge's storyline but changing it to feel closer to their work. The potential downside is this will feel like a P&W Bond film whereas a Boyle/Hodge Bond film would travel a different path. I think some Bond fans were looking forward to a Danny Boyle James Bond film rather than an Eon 'Purvis and Wade' Bond film. Boyle has his own style and I assume that's one of the reasons why Eon picked him! But it's backfired.
I think this sounds the most likely. Again, speaking as an amateur
The best way forward would be for Craig to step aside, push the release back a year, and start fresh. Like Memdes after Skyfall, Craig should’ve followed his instincts after Spectre and stepped away. Now it’s a huge mess, and even if they dodged a bullet by jettisoning Boyle and his radical ideas, it’s a predicament that exists because Craig came back.
There is now a cloud over Bond 25, and I fear it will not lift unless they begin anew.
I agree totally. Doubt it will happen, heaven knows what Daniel's severance deal would be, plus all the sunk costs...I fear that they will carry on regardless unless Daniel decides to walk. His commitment was weak from the get go. Despite the money I feel that he really wants a better final outing. If it looks like 25 may not be it he may think again and bow out with honour.Who knows just speculation until we know more of course.
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
I wonder what contracts have been signed? Can Boyle legally stop EON from using the Hodge script? would he want to?
From what I have read of how Hollywood works and scriptwriters and agents and what happens to scripts, the production company or the studio owns the script, the writer is writing for the production company.
As EON and MGM own the Bond rights they must be the script owners, as studios come and go as distributors.
Hodge may have written his B25 script 'on spec,' which means free, with the help from Boyle, and then EON buys that script when Boyle came on-board.
This explains why there are so few Bonds scripts floating around, EON/MGM owns them and buries what isn't used, in a vast warehouse with endless lines of boxes.... ;-)
There are plenty of books around about Hollywood and scriptwriters, for example, Tales from the Script: 50 Hollywood Screenwriters Share Their Stories
Putting aside for a moment speculation about why Boyle left, there is one thing that bothers me a little: the general lack of interest from the media. Most of the major outlets and entertainment dedicated sites reported on him leaving and then ... nothing. No thought pieces on why he left or how it would impact the film. No opinion articles speculating on who would be a good new director. The general silence has been kind of defeaning. When a director has left other franchise movies recently (Marvel, DC or Star Wars for example) websites have wasted no time spilling digital ink on the why, how, what's next and what it means.
Makes me wonder how the relevance of the Bond franchise is viewed by the media. If Bond movies really were still that important you'd think this would be a bigger story.
More speculation on the death of Bond ? Bond is bigger than any Director, He's not just
another action movie franchise like MI, Fast & Furious etc. He's part of British culture. Believe
it or not, But there will be a Bond 25 and it will have a different director. Be positive guys, the
glass is always half full. -{
As for the Media interest, I watch a lot of news programmes and as far as I can tell the story
was on all news stations, news programmes, All media entertainment shows, radio, internet.
Even today the internet ,YouTube etc is full of stories on the Bond film.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Comments
Boyle's comedy is being distributed by Universal. I wonder if this is all just about getting a distributor (for one film if I recall which seemed odd) and to seal the deal with Universal. EON agreed to Boyle because Universal wanted him and then have since made life difficult for him and he's jumped ship. Universal do not have the option of quitting like a director or actor.
Mind boggled....
The former. They aren’t dumb. Bond is a business to them and they run that business very tightly.
Breakeven for a Bond movie now is probably worldwide $800+ million on release. They can't afford to take "creative" risks. Reflecting on this, perhaps BB and MGW should be congratulated for protecting the beloved franchise.
See his reply at 1 min 10 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=W5ecJqtIF9Q
Perhaps the fear got the better of him? He might have thought "the stress isn't worth it, I quit." On the other hand, perhaps he'd come to terms with any fear and was happy to go ahead but his "great idea" was compromised by Eon? It seems his idea was key to his involvement.
If the idea was scrapped or heavily rewritten, Boyle might have thought he wasn't staying true to his principles.
It didn't sound like it from that response, but he was more likely being cagey about giving any possible info away... maybe anyway.
I'm pretty disappointed by the news, as I like Boyle and was fascinated to see where he would take Bond... I'm sure given the chance it would have been something quite different. Maybe one day he will reveal what he wanted to do and what went wrong.
I'm sure DC is not going anywhere... at least I hope not. My biggest fear is a Nolan/Hardy Bond
I don't mind a Chris Nolan Bond film - could be interesting, and Nolan is a huge Bond fan. Nolan is one of the most respected/high profile directors out there.
I don't want Tom Hardy as Bond. He's kind of short but putting that to one side (I'm not hugely bothered about height), I just don't get a major Bond vibe from him. I'd prefer a relative unknown over Hardy. I can't see Eon going with Hardy but just a guess.
Indeed... in fact I don't get much vibe from him at all, he just seem a bit dull in most things I've seen him in. Anyway, I guess this is not relevant to this thread, as DC will still be Bond for 25.
I remember some years ago when people here were against Nolan directing because they didn't want Leonardo Dicaprio to be James Bond....
We don't know yet if there will be a delay, but if there is then they should recast. Daniel could just about pull off 25 if the narrative supports an older Bond with less running and jumping. If however the timeline stretches to another year ( it's likely to be that as they will want to avoid a Summer release) then it starts to look very doubtful. My guess is that they will do everything possible to stick with the published timeline. Whatever happens it's a mess. The schedule was crazy tight already but they will have to go with it. We don't know how far advanced pre production was (my guess is not very) Maybe,just may be if they scale it back, make a less expensive film they could still pull it off (I hope so) They got away with Spectre, but the knives will be out this time, a combination of Boyle's jumping and Daniel's dumb comments ( which have already been repeated in every item I have read) will haunt 25 whatever happens.
The only silver lining is that CR was surrounded by fan and press negativity and turned out a corker. They EON at that time seemed to know what they were doing even if we did not. I don't get that sense this time...
I hope that you are right. For me a misstep was going 'big-bang ' after the success of Skyfall, a leaner more profitable Film at lower cost would have made sense to me at least. My assertion is based upon the pre-production schedule. When I voiced my concern to Boyle he seemed relaxed, but my friend who works at Pinewood commented that by now 'stuff' would normally be evident on the lot, but that the 'silence was deafening ' this time...
I can’t imagine EON would cede that much control to a director. My guess is they can use the script if they want to. I imagine Purvis and Wade have already started re-writing it.
Of course, Idris Elba is free. Not as Bond, for the director gig.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Yes, that would be the best way forward. Adapt Hodge's screenplay rather than ditching it. That should mean all current pre-production work - sets, locations etc - that are locked in place don't need to be scrapped. P and W can adapt scenes and dialogue rather than starting from scratch. I guess John Hodge will get a screenwriting credit:
Screenplay by Neil Purvis, Robert Wade and John Hodge.
Casino Royale was by Neal Purvis, Robert Wade and Paul Haggis.
Purvis and Wade came up with the main storyline. Haggis was hired in August 2005 to polish their screenplay. Haggis' intention was to have a 28 year old Bond but that was dropped when Craig was cast. Bond 25 may be similar - three writers contributing. Purvis and Wade using most of Hodge's storyline but changing it to feel closer to their work. The potential downside is this will feel like a P&W Bond film whereas a Boyle/Hodge Bond film would travel a different path. I think some Bond fans were looking forward to a Danny Boyle James Bond film rather than an Eon 'Purvis and Wade' Bond film. Boyle has his own style and I assume that's one of the reasons why Eon picked him! But it's backfired.
There is now a cloud over Bond 25, and I fear it will not lift unless they begin anew.
Let’s remember that all pre-production up to this point has been on that Hodge script. If they went with anything else they would basically have to start pre-production over with 3 months to go...
I think this sounds the most likely. Again, speaking as an amateur
I agree totally. Doubt it will happen, heaven knows what Daniel's severance deal would be, plus all the sunk costs...I fear that they will carry on regardless
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From what I have read of how Hollywood works and scriptwriters and agents and what happens to scripts, the production company or the studio owns the script, the writer is writing for the production company.
As EON and MGM own the Bond rights they must be the script owners, as studios come and go as distributors.
Hodge may have written his B25 script 'on spec,' which means free, with the help from Boyle, and then EON buys that script when Boyle came on-board.
This explains why there are so few Bonds scripts floating around, EON/MGM owns them and buries what isn't used, in a vast warehouse with endless lines of boxes.... ;-)
There are plenty of books around about Hollywood and scriptwriters, for example, Tales from the Script: 50 Hollywood Screenwriters Share Their Stories
Makes me wonder how the relevance of the Bond franchise is viewed by the media. If Bond movies really were still that important you'd think this would be a bigger story.
another action movie franchise like MI, Fast & Furious etc. He's part of British culture. Believe
it or not, But there will be a Bond 25 and it will have a different director. Be positive guys, the
glass is always half full. -{
As for the Media interest, I watch a lot of news programmes and as far as I can tell the story
was on all news stations, news programmes, All media entertainment shows, radio, internet.
Even today the internet ,YouTube etc is full of stories on the Bond film.