Replica watch

johnraiders

Hi

Am I allowed to sell my replica Bond watch ? The principle seems the same as replica Tom Ford Jackets etc.

Thanks

John

JTM

Not even close to the same principle. Companies like Royale and Magnoli replicate the design without going as far as adding the original maker's logo/name to the items to sell them. Yes it's a bit of a grey area but "taking inspiration" from the design of another company's piece is far from rare in the clothing industry. Putting the original maker's name on a replicated piece and then selling it is illegal. That's the difference.

Higgins

The topic of replicas, particularly watches is a difficult one.

I know that the forum owners are keen on not messing up with EON and that includes fakes/replica of EON licensed products. A fake 007 Omega falls under this category.

If you are following the (genuine) watch community, the instances where someone has been conned with a replica but for full price are getting more and more and that should be reason alone to stay away from replica watches. You may disclose that it‘s a fake - the next buyer may not if he‘s selling it.

Replica watches are produced in large factories, the distribution is fully controlled by organised crime, not sure why and if anyone wants to support this!

That aside, would our hero support the existence of fakes?
Vesper: „Rolex?“
Bond „Fake Omega“



Fake watches fall under the same category as illegal bootlegs and should not be supported!
Period!

emtiem

JTM wrote:

Not even close to the same principle. Companies like Royale and Magnoli replicate the design without going as far as adding the original maker's logo/name to the items to sell them. Yes it's a bit of a grey area but "taking inspiration" from the design of another company's piece is far from rare in the clothing industry. Putting the original maker's name on a replicated piece and then selling it is illegal. That's the difference.

I don’t think it’s a massive difference though. You can buy a replica Spectre Omega on eBay without the Omega logo on; what’s the difference between that and Magnoli’s ripoff Vuarnet sunglasses?
Higgins’ point about the factories is the strongest one, really.

Higgins

emtiem wrote:

I don’t think it’s a massive difference though. You can buy a replica Spectre Omega on eBay without the Omega logo on; what’s the difference between that and Magnoli’s ripoff Vuarnet sunglasses?

In my modest opinion, companies like Magnoli and others are just uninspired copycats and I never understood people who purchased this copycrap.

Being a Bond fan means to me living a life with brands and products, which Bond really enjoys for their intrinsic quality and not only for a cheap look.

And that applies to all. As an example, I enjoy my Moncler ribbed Spectre jacket because I see TFs version as a simple ripoff from the original design. Same applies to the TF 108 sunglasses for example.

The only difference from watch fakers to Indy Magnoli is imo that he‘s not using organised crime to distribute his fakes without labels.

If I could, I‘d ban Indy himself for what he‘s doing with original design and suspend all threads that are discussing these products and alike.

Barbel

This isn't my field. I've asked that others more knowledgeable look into the matter.

emtiem

Higgins wrote:

emtiem wrote:

I don’t think it’s a massive difference though. You can buy a replica Spectre Omega on eBay without the Omega logo on; what’s the difference between that and Magnoli’s ripoff Vuarnet sunglasses?

In my modest opinion, companies like Magnoli and others are just uninspired copycats and I never understood people who purchased this copycrap.

Being a Bond fan means to me living a life with brands and products, which Bond really enjoys for their intrinsic quality and not only for a cheap look.

And that applies to all. As an example, I enjoy my Moncler ribbed Spectre jacket because I see TFs version as a simple ripoff from the original design. Same applies to the TF 108 sunglasses for example.

The only difference from watch fakers to Indy Magnoli is imo that he‘s not using organised crime to distribute his fakes without labels.

If I could, I‘d ban Indy himself for what he‘s doing with original design and suspend all threads that are discussing these products and alike.

Yeah I don’t massively disagree with any of that.
I guess when it comes to stuff which the original makers no longer produce and you simply can’t get hold of it’s a bit more of a grey area.
It kind of comes down to whether you like the style of something or whether you want to dress up as James Bond. Personally I like the Levi’s jacket from Skyfall: I have a real one but I also recently purchased a Wested version simply because I like the style and wanted a tougher version I could bash around in. It’s a well-made jacket made by experts, but I don’t need the exact label James Bond wore in order to appreciate it. A made-up spy isn’t the only arbiter of quality.

Bond44

Interesting thread

As far as I am concerned a fake is only ever a fake if someone tries to pass it off as the real deal. Then it comes down to the integrity of the individual concerned, unfortunately there are some who have no respect for others in this respect (may they rot in hell).

That said I do feel there is a place for replicas I cite some examples

A friend of mine on limited funds has a replica his dad bought him a watch in China because he loves the watch and aspires one day own the real deal. He never passes it off for the real thing and never would, so I give him credit for that. I am lucky to own the real one, I have saved my hard earned to own it because I am at a point in my life I have some spare cash to make such investment - not everyone is that lucky.

In the last two years I have owned and lost the TF Shawl cardi (£900) and QOS Planet Ocean (£2k plus), the cardi was stolen and the watch lost through doing a good deed, at total loss for me of over 3k. Hind sight is a great thing and looking back the risks were probably higher than I appreciated and losing a replica of both would have been less stressful financally and emotionally.

I have replaced both genuine items but I now find myself over assessing my situation before going somewhere, so gave in and bought a Royale Cardi (do I consider it a fake no replica yes) I now take this on business trips leaving the real one at home, so in reality am I enjoying the real one anymore? Honest answer probably not as much as I did the first time, my losses have left its mark.

I would love a TF QOS Harrington, but they are rare as rocking horse do do and the closest I can get is the Royale version because there is no other option to get the real one. When AJBers got another batch I could not afford it at the time so made the decision to stick with Dans version rather than bankrupt myself.

Some brand embrace the Bond connection and have these items as a regulars on their inventory allowing us to buy them at any point, for other brands the Bond connection seems incidental and is used to introduce us to their Brand/ line up, but they move on and their Bond related items become rare and more expensive, but in reality they wear out like any other or never get worn so what’s the point of owning it? With the latter this opens up the replica market because there is no other choice the brand has moved on.

I love TF suits but wear suits so irregularly buying them is not viable so I wear similar inspired by suits to get a similar look, does that make me a fake?

I love the CR Bond free running shirt but you cannot get them anymore so Indy was my port of call.

I was lucky enough to get a great deal on a Y3 it took me 10 years and in the meantime I went with Dans version.

From both Indy and Dan they serviced a need I had but I knew exactly what I was getting so consider them replicas not fakes, so why not I could not get these items elsewhere but liked the look.

Fully understand about the criminal aspects mentioned by some, but I also think it’s up to each of us to judge the situation dispassionately and then act as we see fit and either let your conscience be your guide of something to live with.

Just my thoughts

Cheers :007)

bosoxfan

I personally think your thoughts are spot on, I've got no problem with it as long as it advertised accurately, just my $.02
K

Bond44 wrote:

Interesting thread

As far as I am concerned a fake is only ever a fake if someone tries to pass it off as the real deal. Then it comes down to the integrity of the individual concerned, unfortunately there are some who have no respect for others in this respect (may they rot in hell).

That said I do feel there is a place for replicas I cite some examples

A friend of mine on limited funds has a replica his dad bought him a watch in China because he loves the watch and aspires one day own the real deal. He never passes it off for the real thing and never would, so I give him credit for that. I am lucky to own the real one, I have saved my hard earned to own it because I am at a point in my life I have some spare cash to make such investment - not everyone is that lucky.

In the last two years I have owned and lost the TF Shawl cardi (£900) and QOS Planet Ocean (£2k plus), the cardi was stolen and the watch lost, at total loss for me of over 3k. Hind sight is a great thing and looking back the risks were probably higher than I expected and losing a replica of both would have been less stressful financally and emotionally.

I have replaced both genuine items but I now find myself over assessing my situation before go somewhere, so gave in and bought a Royale Cardi (do I consider it a fake no replica yes) I now take this on business trips leaving the real one at home, so in reality am I enjoying the real one anymore? Honest answer probably not as much as I did the first time, my losses have left its mark.

I would love a TF QOS Harrington, but they are rare as rocking horse do do and the closest I can get is the Royale version because there is no other option to get the real one. When AJBers got another batch I could not afford it at the time so made the decision to stick with Dans version rather than bankrupt myself.

I love TF suits but wear suits so irregularly buying them is not viable so I wear similar inspired by suits to get a similar look, does that make me a fake?

I love the CR Bond free running shirt but you cannot get them anymore so Indy was my port of call.

I was lucky enough to get a great deal on a Y3 it took me 10 years and in the meantime I went with Dans version.

From both Indy and Dan they serviced a need I had but I knew exactly what I was getting so consider them replicas not fakes, so why not I could not get these items elsewhere but liked the look.

Fully understand about the criminal aspects mentioned by some, but I also think it’s up to each of us to judge the situation dispassionately and then act as we see fit and either let your conscience be your guide of something to live with.

Just my thoughts

Cheers :007)

The Domino Effect

It is my understanding that a work of art is legally only a forgery when it bears a false signature or is claimed to be by someone other than the person who creates it. Therefore, I can paint an absolutely perfect 'replica' of van Gogh's sunflowers and as long as I don't add his name to it or in any way claim that it was by vG, it's perfectly legal to sell. If I add his signature or claim that it's an original, I have committed fraud.

In art, design and fashion, as in life, many things are inspired by others. In Bordworld, we've seen Tom Ford sunglasses that were almost identical to Oliver Peoples and a Tom Ford quilted cardigan almost identical to Montcler. Top fashion designers are often inspired by each other and how many varieties of "Barcelona" chairs have we all seen that aren't actually Barcelona chairs?

Once you apply a false label or signature to something, however, I can accept no justification. It's no different than pirated movies or music. I don't mind something that's similar to something else, or inspired by something else but I would never want a watch that had "Rolex" or "Omega" on it unless it was made by Rolex or Omega. That said, if someone likes a certain look, I see nothing wrong with buying something that looks similar as long as it doesn't have a fake label or name on it. Once it has the fake label or name, it should be destroyed.

As others have said, there is no happy story with knock-offs. They are nearly always connected to organised crime and nearly always made by people who are slave labour or virtually slave labour.

johnraiders

Lively discussion !
My logic on buying replicas was I couldn’t afford to ever own all the originals or to try and see if I liked it enough to one day get the original and lots of nice designs.
I’ve bought several replicas and genuine Omegas over the years, most of the replicas keep better time !
Replicas prices are now quite high as all priced in $
I had a fantastic looking replica anniversary black seamaster but it couldn’t time to save its life, took it to a local watch guy who was shocked at how bad it was inside, he adjusted it but wouldn’t keep time for me, however on my brother it kept pretty good time, in the end I sold it on a replica forum
With this one OHMSS I loved it so much I then bought the original, on a crazy discount.
I’ll await the mods verdict.

Higgins

johnraiders wrote:

I’ve bought several replicas and genuine Omegas over the years, most of the replicas keep better time !.

You may think about that line again.
While it‘s a popular argument from everybody who buys fake watches, it‘s simply not true!

The argument „I could never afford to own/buy one/all originals, so I shortcut my way (because I feel entiteled to own them all)“ does not make sense to me.

One step more dramatic, every thief could justify his deeds with the same argument....

0073

Higgins wrote:

In my modest opinion, companies like Magnoli and others are just uninspired copycats and I never understood people who purchased this copycrap.

Being a Bond fan means to me living a life with brands and products, which Bond really enjoys for their intrinsic quality and not only for a cheap look.

And that applies to all. As an example, I enjoy my Moncler ribbed Spectre jacket because I see TFs version as a simple ripoff from the original design. Same applies to the TF 108 sunglasses for example.

The only difference from watch fakers to Indy Magnoli is imo that he‘s not using organised crime to distribute his fakes without labels.

If I could, I‘d ban Indy himself for what he‘s doing with original design and suspend all threads that are discussing these products and alike.

HEAR! HEAR!

There is only a narrow technical gap between a "homage" -product and an outright fake, but morally they are worlds apart. But be that as it may, I for one have always abhorred any products that can be considered a "homage". Homage products are a testament to laziness in production values of a company. Creative poverty. Tom Ford is just as bad in this, as Indy. The fact that TF charges more for his wares, is by no means a redeeming factor, quite the opposite.

If you can not afford, for example, a Submariner; go and buy Casio Duro for it's own sake, for the approximation of the style. Please do not succumb to the lure of the Parnis or Invicta.

P.S. Would I ever consider buying a "homage" of anything? Yes I would, if it were something that is from a long gone company and no originals were anymore available. Better yet, if it's produced with the blessing of the original producer or a successor of one, a situation comparable to a new edition of a book.

P.P.S Replica fire arms are also OK, if your country prohibits the ownership of handguns, for example.

0073

Bond44 wrote:

I have replaced both genuine items but I now find myself over assessing my situation before going somewhere, so gave in and bought a Royale Cardi (do I consider it a fake no replica yes) I now take this on business trips leaving the real one at home, so in reality am I enjoying the real one anymore? Honest answer probably not as much as I did the first time, my losses have left its mark.

“Collecting in all its moods had to be loved and not feared, Bond44 saw collecting as a woman, to be softly wooed or brutally ravaged, never pandered to or pursued. But he was honest enough to admit that he had never yet been made to suffer by a collection or by women. One day, and he accepted the fact, he would be brought to his knees by love or by collecting.”

Higgins

0073 wrote:

HEAR! HEAR!

There is only a narrow technical gap between a "homage" -product and an outright fake, but morally they are worlds apart. But be that as it may, I for one have always abhorred any products that can be considered a "homage". Homage products are a testament to laziness in production values of a company. Creative poverty. Tom Ford is just as bad in this, as Indy. The fact that TF charges more for his wares, is by no means a redeeming factor, quite the opposite.

If you can not afford, for example, a Submariner; go and buy Casio Duro for it's own sake, for the approximation of the style. Please do not succumb to the lure of the Parnis or Invicta.

P.S. Would I ever consider buying a "homage" of anything? Yes I would, if it were something that is from a long gone company and no originals were anymore available. Better yet, if it's produced with the blessing of the original producer or a successor of one, a situation comparable to a new edition of a book.

{[] {[]

I accept replica only in the case of people who recreate 007 props which are not available anymore or just in inferior quality (Fe, can you hear us).

Replicating them without having the genuine prop in hands or without even knowing the proper dimensions is an art of its own - imo of course......

Bond44

0073 wrote:

Bond44 wrote:

I have replaced both genuine items but I now find myself over assessing my situation before going somewhere, so gave in and bought a Royale Cardi (do I consider it a fake no replica yes) I now take this on business trips leaving the real one at home, so in reality am I enjoying the real one anymore? Honest answer probably not as much as I did the first time, my losses have left its mark.

“Collecting in all its moods had to be loved and not feared, Bond44 saw collecting as a woman, to be softly wooed or brutally ravaged, never pandered to or pursued. But he was honest enough to admit that he had never yet been made to suffer by a collection or by women. One day, and he accepted the fact, he would be brought to his knees by love or by collecting.”

You obviously haven't met my long haired General!

On a serious note i buy to wear but there is a lesson in that to us all - that comes with risks and one day that may bite you in the Arrse. Maybe i got cocky that watch had been with me all over the world and is a moment it was gone - along with all the great memories. the Cardi was my favourite so I wore it - and paid an ultimate price (one you sometimes have to be prepared to do if you are ever unlucky enough)

Cheers :007)

Sir Miles

johnraiders wrote:

Hi

Am I allowed to sell my replica Bond watch ? The principle seems the same as replica Tom Ford Jackets etc.

Thanks

John

Does your ‘replica’ watch contain any branding? As in, does it have Rolex or Omega on the dial?

If it does then the answer is no I’m afraid. It will be in breach of the copyright laws and therefore it’s an illegal item.

I 100% agree with the person who wants me to be anonymous here :v

ANY item that is counterfeit (ie purporting to be something it isn’t) isn’t allowed to be sold on AJB.

Happy to carry on discussing this here or via PM if preferred

johnraiders

Sir Miles wrote:

johnraiders wrote:

Hi

Am I allowed to sell my replica Bond watch ? The principle seems the same as replica Tom Ford Jackets etc.

Thanks

John

Does your ‘replica’ watch contain any branding? As in, does it have Rolex or Omega on the dial?

If it does then the answer is no I’m afraid. It will be in breach of the copyright laws and therefore it’s an illegal item.

I 100% agree with the person who wants me to be anonymous here :v

ANY item that is counterfeit (ie purporting to be something it isn’t) isn’t allowed to be sold on AJB.

Happy to carry on discussing this here or via PM if preferred

Hi

Ok that’s fine thanks for clearing it up.
I’ll slink back to my evil replica watch building empire, I’m joking by the way.

bosoxfan

So just to clarify, if it is not falsly marked with the watch it copies, then it would be ok or not? I'm just not sure I understand the response? Thanks,
K

Sir Miles

bosoxfan wrote:

So just to clarify, if it is not falsly marked with the watch it copies, then it would be ok or not? I'm just not sure I understand the response? Thanks,
K

Apologies, I thought my response was extremely clear

If the ‘watch’ has NO BRANDING on it then it’s ok because it’s not really copying…it’s just a cheap, normally poorly made watch...and who’d want to own that?

Happy to answer any further queries…

Quentin Quigley

Interesting that this subject has been brought up now. I recently made a mock-up display watch of the NTTD Seamaster. That is, the case is from a cheap rep, with no Omega branding, but the second hand had '007' on it... Everything was stripped from the case, and more accurate bezel insert & mesh bracelet added. Dial is a cardboard insert with the hands printed on. All for display purposes to sit amongst other props. I received both compliments and condemnation, as was expected. I don't have the $13,700.67¢ to spend right now, so if I see an opportunity to make a non-functioning display watch that closely resembles the newest Bond SMP for a hundred bucks, then I won't hesitate. {:)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510543282_923a9ec29e_o.png
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510553877_8a22d04ae0_o.png

johnraiders

Quentin Quigley wrote:

Interesting that this subject has been brought up now. I recently made a mock-up display watch of the NTTD Seamaster. That is, the case is from a cheap rep, with no Omega branding, but the second hand had '007' on it... Everything was stripped from the case, and more accurate bezel insert & mesh bracelet added. Dial is a cardboard insert with the hands printed on. All for display purposes to sit amongst other props. I received both compliments and condemnation, as was expected. I don't have the $13,700.67¢ to spend right now, so if I see an opportunity to make a non-functioning display watch that closely resembles the newest Bond SMP for a hundred bucks, then I won't hesitate. {:)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510543282_923a9ec29e_o.png
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510553877_8a22d04ae0_o.png

Hi

Thats most impressive.

Where did you get the mesh bracelet from ?

Quentin Quigley

Cheers, John. It's a ~$12 bracelet from ebay. It features a buckle, not clasp, but it does have 6 notches like the genuine article.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/20-22-24mm-Silver-Stainless-Steel-Mesh-Watch-Band-Strap-Bracelet-Pin-Buckle/191271353291?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=490393115464&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

My criticisms of this bracelet are that the loop that you feed the strap through looks and feels like it would rust pretty quickly with constant sweating, though you could probably swap that part out with a better quality one. Also, the mesh links want to twist the strap along its length. If you look at my photos, you can see the ends of the bracelet twisting on the spring bars, which might give the illusion that the dial is not in straight. Maybe one way of fixing that is to use thicker spring bars.

Other than that, it's a heavy bracelet that feels comfortable on the wrist. The gaps between the mesh links are minimal - you can only see through it when putting it up to the light. I think that's one detail you want when choosing a close alternative bracelet.

QQ

Sir Miles

Quentin Quigley wrote:

Interesting that this subject has been brought up now. I recently made a mock-up display watch of the NTTD Seamaster. That is, the case is from a cheap rep, with no Omega branding, but the second hand had '007' on it... Everything was stripped from the case, and more accurate bezel insert & mesh bracelet added. Dial is a cardboard insert with the hands printed on. All for display purposes to sit amongst other props. I received both compliments and condemnation, as was expected. I don't have the $13,700.67¢ to spend right now, so if I see an opportunity to make a non-functioning display watch that closely resembles the newest Bond SMP for a hundred bucks, then I won't hesitate. {:)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510543282_923a9ec29e_o.png
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510553877_8a22d04ae0_o.png

I think most people would applaud you for that...that’s prop making for display purposes, quite different from counterfeit watches

Bond44

Sir Miles wrote:

Quentin Quigley wrote:

Interesting that this subject has been brought up now. I recently made a mock-up display watch of the NTTD Seamaster. That is, the case is from a cheap rep, with no Omega branding, but the second hand had '007' on it... Everything was stripped from the case, and more accurate bezel insert & mesh bracelet added. Dial is a cardboard insert with the hands printed on. All for display purposes to sit amongst other props. I received both compliments and condemnation, as was expected. I don't have the $13,700.67¢ to spend right now, so if I see an opportunity to make a non-functioning display watch that closely resembles the newest Bond SMP for a hundred bucks, then I won't hesitate. {:)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510543282_923a9ec29e_o.png
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510553877_8a22d04ae0_o.png

I think most people would applaud you for that...that’s prop making for display purposes, quite different from counterfeit watches

Agree it never ceases to amaze my the capabilities and ingenuity of some on this site - good prop I would say.

Not exactly a fake you will never pass it off as a real one

Cheers :007)

Quentin Quigley

Sir Miles; Bond44 - Thanks for the kind words, guys -{ Some more angles here:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510303136_52b4d2b5b5_o.png
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510543862_cd20fcc3e0_o.png
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Westward_Drift

Quentin Quigley wrote:

Sir Miles; Bond44 - Thanks for the kind words, guys -{ Some more angles here:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510303136_52b4d2b5b5_o.png
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510543862_cd20fcc3e0_o.png
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49510313706_0c363cd4ef_o.png
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49509806393_9c05f396b1_o.png
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https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49509815583_34a8931e40_o.png

Watch looks great, Quentin Quigley.

Where did you find the mesh bracelet? I haven't had any luck trying to find a mesh strap with holes like the Omega. Thinking of putting it on my Newmark 71 or Vostok Amphibia.

Quentin Quigley

Westward_Drift - Cheers, buddy -{ You can find this mesh bracelet here:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/20-22-24mm-Silver-Stainless-Steel-Mesh-Watch-Band-Strap-Bracelet-Pin-Buckle/191271353291?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=490393115464&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

P.S. I did a review of the bracelet on page 1.