Just to be clear to one person and with the assumption that my posts were also unclear to others, I was - and am - not speaking about NTTD, but who will take over from Craig in the next film.
I have already said before in other discussions that I have never seen or read any anything about NTTD (until Jellyfish's post!) because I didn't want to know anything about it until I saw it. Thierefore I did not know that Lashana Lynch is in that film!
It appears I have been mixed up in reading the article. To repeat, what I said is in respect not to NTTD but the next film - where (I believed) some one had been announced as 007 in the next film, not NTTD!
I thought it was strange that there was no official announcement!
Apologies for my mix up!
Oh I see, it wasn't very clear. No, she's just in No Time To Die and she's taken over from Bond, that's all. It's just the story of this film. Impressive that you've managed to stay so clear of info about this film that you don't know who's in it!
Joshua I admire your ability to have remained spoiler-free!!
Wish I had been so disciplined.
But maybe by the time Bond25 finally gets released, in 2120 or whatever new release date they finally settle on, I will have finally forgotten all the spoilers I now know.
I think your misunderstanding of Lashana Lynch's role is a deliberate marketing strategy on EON's part. Intended to stir online controversy and thus interest in the new film. The trailer is structured to suggest she is the new 007 without explicitly stating it, and her interviews all tease the idea.
There was a four way panel "interview", with Craig, Malik, Lynch, and Seydoux, I saw online a few days before the original intended March 2020 release date, where Malik and Lynch are both playfully talking round the online rumours of who their characters will actually be, further evidence those rumours were deliberate marketing.
This is an unfortunate side effect of the films delay: a rumour that was intended to generate buzz for an imminent release now takes on a life of its own as the film remains unseen. I think the idea was we all argue about this for a few weeks then we'd see the actual film and experience for ourselves how her character fits into the plot.
But nearly a year later we still haven't seen the actual film, and people keep stumbling across the Lynch-is-the-new-007 rumours without the original context, and reopen the usual online sociopolitical arguments all over again.
Joshua I admire your ability to have remained spoiler-free!!
Wish I had been so disciplined.
But maybe by the time Bond25 finally gets released, in 2120 or whatever new release date they finally settle on, I will have finally forgotten all the spoilers I now know.
I think your misunderstanding of Lashana Lynch's role is a deliberate marketing strategy on EON's part. Intended to stir online controversy and thus interest in the new film. The trailer is structured to suggest she is the new 007 without explicitly stating it, and her interviews all tease the idea.
In what way do you think that's happening? Is it because they say she's a new double 0? I just end up wondering what we're saying they would do if they didn't want to reveal she's 007. I find it curious we're accusing them of 'loving' playing with the reveal which they've done by never saying she is 007 (in English anyway) and not commenting on it. They haven't been saying 'Bond has been replaced, but by whom?' or anything like that- there's no building up or hinting at it been going on. I don't see the teasing: it's just not something that anyone but fans would be really interested enough to piece together and read between the lines. The vast majority of people will just see the trailer, hear she's a new double 0, and then not think any further about it until the film comes out. They're not interested in extremely oblique teases.
If they hadn't said she was a double O fans would still be guessing she's 007 because of the set-up of the film, and then the film company would still be accused of stirring things up. I think folks have decided an awful lot based on almost no action at all being taken, and then the promo dept are being painted in a negative light for this act, which even if they were doing it would be in the cause of promoting the film, which isn't really such a terrible thing. I can't understand the problem.
The worst that happens is that you get some people who haven't understood a headline and not read the article it's above say they won't watch a film, and then when the film comes out months later they'll have forgotten and watch it anyway. If they still think James Bond isn't in a movie which has a poster with a big picture of Daniel Craig on it when it comes out then there's not much which can be done to help them
But nearly a year later we still haven't seen the actual film, and people keep stumbling across the Lynch-is-the-new-007 rumours without the original context, and reopen the usual online sociopolitical arguments all over again.
As millions in the U.S. have just voted against toxic masculinity and are celebrating that Kamala Harris is the-first-woman-(of-colour)-Vice-President-Elect, our "usual online sociopolitical arguments" perhaps gain (despite the contortions of our fannish niche) some resonance in the real-life zeitgeist.
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
But nearly a year later we still haven't seen the actual film, and people keep stumbling across the Lynch-is-the-new-007 rumours without the original context, and reopen the usual online sociopolitical arguments all over again.
As millions in the U.S. have just voted against toxic masculinity and are celebrating that Kamala Harris is the-first-woman-(of-colour)-Vice-President-Elect, our "usual online sociopolitical arguments" perhaps gain (despite the contortions of our fannish niche) some resonance in the real-life zeitgeist.
Yes I've been hearing from other fans who have seen groups on Facebook or whatever with people who have read this and said 'I won't watch a film with a black woman in it' or whatever, and I think it's interesting that people like that (and I'm not commenting on anyone here incidentally, because that's not what anyone is saying) have shown their bigotry and also their lack of understanding as to just simply what is actually going on. It's interesting that the two go together!
Anyone who says 'I won't watch a film with a black woman in it' is an obvious asshole !!
Bigotry plus Arrogance equals stupidity, Hard to believe in this day and age this crap
still gets someone to go along with it.
From what I've seen from the trailer her character makes a fine 007, as befitting the
Number an obvious exceptional agent ( Probably as good as me ) and if she got a
stand alone movie, I'd watch it.
As for James Bond 007, I want a hard drinking, womanising, fast driving, fighting Bloke.
I hate sexism, stereotypes and intolerance of all nations So I don't really care what the skin
colour of the actor playing him is, ............ just so long as he's not a Bloody American
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Joshua I admire your ability to have remained spoiler-free!!
Wish I had been so disciplined.
But maybe by the time Bond25 finally gets released, in 2120 or whatever new release date they finally settle on, I will have finally forgotten all the spoilers I now know.
I think your misunderstanding of Lashana Lynch's role is a deliberate marketing strategy on EON's part. Intended to stir online controversy and thus interest in the new film. The trailer is structured to suggest she is the new 007 without explicitly stating it, and her interviews all tease the idea.
There was a four way panel "interview", with Craig, Malik, Lynch, and Seydoux, I saw online a few days before the original intended March 2020 release date, where Malik and Lynch are both playfully talking round the online rumours of who their characters will actually be, further evidence those rumours were deliberate marketing.
This is an unfortunate side effect of the films delay: a rumour that was intended to generate buzz for an imminent release now takes on a life of its own as the film remains unseen. I think the idea was we all argue about this for a few weeks then we'd see the actual film and experience for ourselves how her character fits into the plot.
But nearly a year later we still haven't seen the actual film, and people keep stumbling across the Lynch-is-the-new-007 rumours without the original context, and reopen the usual online sociopolitical arguments all over again.
I agree. And it is exactly because I have kept my distance from NTTD news that I mistook the headline for something else.
I have already said before in other discussions that I have never seen or read any anything about NTTD (until Jellyfish's post!) because I didn't want to know anything about it until I saw it. Thierefore I did not know that Lashana Lynch is in that film!
I feel bad now! Joshua, I really hope I haven't given away too much of the film for you-I don't want to affect your enjoyment of it when we finally get to watch it. Well done for staying away from reading about it. I read too much on here about SPECTRE before it came out and it did affect my enjoyment of the film a bit. There were bits where I knew what was coming, so I resolved to not do the same with No Time To Die, and other than some stuff I've seen, including what I put on this thread, I've managed to keep away from it (although the Spoilers thread is very tempting...).
heres that fourway panel promo video I was remembering from the spring. Includes spoilers, but moreso they have a laff trying to tell us about the film while avoiding spoilers.
I confess I misremembered:
Lynch explicitly says she's a double-oh, without saying she's got the number 007, same as in the trailer, same as in the article Asp shows us at the top of the page. Otherwise she's talking about her characters attitude.
So I don't know if theres ever been official evidence she's 007?
(Malik on the other hand says "I don't even know my characters final name" at 3:10. He is consciously teasing a rumour that was doing the rounds at the time! That's why I think they are well aware of online rumours)
Here's why I believe it is all part of EON's marketing plan:
Modern marketing departments employ social media teams, and part of a successful social media campaign is to make discussions related to the product go viral. A good way to make discussion go viral is to piggyback on ongoing controversy in the larger world (the things people are arguing about online anyway), an thus inspire articles with clickbait headlines.
And I think its actually only Bondgeeks like us who take the time to carefully parse the trailer and remember she is saying she is a new "double oh", not even explicitly 007 let alone the "new James Bond".
Anecdotally in real life, acquaintances who know I'm a BondFan have repeatedly tried to start conversations with me saying "I heard the new James Bond is going to be played by a black woman".
They are more likely to have heard this rumour than they are to know the title of the new film.
Normal people don't watch the trailer (trailers aren't even that big a part of modern marketing), normal people do remember what they've read in clickbait headlines.
Anecdotally in real life, acquaintances who know I'm a BondFan have repeatedly tried to start conversations with me saying "I heard the new James Bond is going to be played by a black woman".
They are more likely to have heard this rumour than they are to know the title of the new film.
Normal people don't watch the trailer (trailers aren't even that big a part of modern marketing), normal people do remember what they've read in clickbait headlines.
Exactly this has happened to me as well in the last couple of weeks - several times!
Not sure if it was intentional from EON, but if it was, it has backfired - my opinion.
President of the 'Misty Eyes Club'.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
I think everyone knows that she’s going to be 007. All bets are off on that. Some people don’t seem to be able to differentiate between 007 and James Bond though. John Gardner got rid of Bonds official designation of 007 during the novels.
after the title song we switch to Ms office and he asks for 007 to be sent in. It’s not Bond
heres that fourway panel promo video I was remembering from the spring. Includes spoilers, but moreso they have a laff trying to tell us about the film while avoiding spoilers.
I confess I misremembered:
Lynch explicitly says she's a double-oh, without saying she's got the number 007, same as in the trailer, same as in the article Asp shows us at the top of the page. Otherwise she's talking about her characters attitude.
So I don't know if theres ever been official evidence she's 007?
Only in the foreign language version of the last main trailer; never in English either in print or interviews. It's clearly not something they've been playing up- if they wanted to play it up they would have created some sort of mystery about her, and they haven't.
What they have wanted people to know is that she is a young, relatively inexperienced but fit double O who is sceptical about Bond.
Likewise the Dr No is not based on anything Eon have planted- it's just based on some fans noticing he like Japanese things.
Here's why I believe it is all part of EON's marketing plan:
Modern marketing departments employ social media teams, and part of a successful social media campaign is to make discussions related to the product go viral. A good way to make discussion go viral is to piggyback on ongoing controversy in the larger world (the things people are arguing about online anyway), an thus inspire articles with clickbait headlines.
And I think its actually only Bondgeeks like us who take the time to carefully parse the trailer and remember she is saying she is a new "double oh", not even explicitly 007 let alone the "new James Bond".
Anecdotally in real life, acquaintances who know I'm a BondFan have repeatedly tried to start conversations with me saying "I heard the new James Bond is going to be played by a black woman".
They are more likely to have heard this rumour than they are to know the title of the new film.
Normal people don't watch the trailer (trailers aren't even that big a part of modern marketing), normal people do remember what they've read in clickbait headlines.
This is a bit of stretch, I think. How exactly are you saying they've done this? By not saying anything at all? And that they wouldn't put something in the trailers (except that they have in the Italian version etc.) if they wanted to promote it? Is that too easy or something?
I mean seriously: our evidence that they've wanted people to talk about it is that they've never mentioned it at all? That's not really great PR!
Way back just before they started filming I'm pretty sure I was actually the first person on this site to suggest that she might be 007, and I fully expected them to go the whole hog on the whole 'meet the new 007!' thing, but they haven't at all. Maybe their plan is make a thing out of it very close to release or actually just after the film has come out, I don't know. But so far they've obviously not wanted to lean on it at all.
I think everyone knows that she’s going to be 007. All bets are off on that. Some people don’t seem to be able to differentiate between 007 and James Bond though. John Gardner got rid of Bonds official designation of 007 during the novels.
after the title song we switch to Ms office and he asks for 007 to be sent in. It’s not Bond
It's long seemed likely that the bit in the trailer where M asks where 007 is he isn't referring to Bond.
This idea was apparently first considered for Miranda Frost/Gala Brand in Die Another Day- that she would have the 007 designation after Bond had been abandoned in North Korea.
I think everyone knows that she’s going to be 007. All bets are off on that. Some people don’t seem to be able to differentiate between 007 and James Bond though. John Gardner got rid of Bonds official designation of 007 during the novels.
after the title song we switch to Ms office and he asks for 007 to be sent in. It’s not Bond
It's long seemed likely that the bit in the trailer where M asks where 007 is he isn't referring to Bond.
This idea was apparently first considered for Miranda Frost/Gala Brand in Die Another Day- that she would have the 007 designation after Bond had been abandoned in North Korea.
I was working at EON during DAD and never was Mirada Frost going to be 007, you are correct about Gala Brand though -{
It was the same character basically wasn't it? Good to have that confirmed though, thanks.
I always quite liked that nickname Q used, calling Bond 'double O zero'- I was kind of hoping he was actually going to be officially called that for the film, getting 007 back at the end, because it was quite cool!
I do not even begin to pretend that I understand what post number 36 means?!
Sorry, let me re-state my point. Many among the majority of people who are pleased that Kamala Harris, as a woman of colour, is the US's Vice President-Elect might also welcome, in the world of film, a leading recurring role for a black woman OO. Those who don't wouldn't but, as emtiem said, that's not meant as a reference to anyone in this forum. In saying this, I don't wish to trivialise real-world politics by drawing parallels with film fans' different opinions about possible developments in diversity in the Bond franchise.
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
Comments
Oh I see, it wasn't very clear. No, she's just in No Time To Die and she's taken over from Bond, that's all. It's just the story of this film. Impressive that you've managed to stay so clear of info about this film that you don't know who's in it!
Apart from the usual characters, Malik (spelling?) and now Lynch, I have no idea who is in the film. I did the same with SP.
I also have not watched some of the Pierce Brosnan films and know very little about them for the same reason.
Wish I had been so disciplined.
But maybe by the time Bond25 finally gets released, in 2120 or whatever new release date they finally settle on, I will have finally forgotten all the spoilers I now know.
I think your misunderstanding of Lashana Lynch's role is a deliberate marketing strategy on EON's part. Intended to stir online controversy and thus interest in the new film. The trailer is structured to suggest she is the new 007 without explicitly stating it, and her interviews all tease the idea.
There was a four way panel "interview", with Craig, Malik, Lynch, and Seydoux, I saw online a few days before the original intended March 2020 release date, where Malik and Lynch are both playfully talking round the online rumours of who their characters will actually be, further evidence those rumours were deliberate marketing.
This is an unfortunate side effect of the films delay: a rumour that was intended to generate buzz for an imminent release now takes on a life of its own as the film remains unseen. I think the idea was we all argue about this for a few weeks then we'd see the actual film and experience for ourselves how her character fits into the plot.
But nearly a year later we still haven't seen the actual film, and people keep stumbling across the Lynch-is-the-new-007 rumours without the original context, and reopen the usual online sociopolitical arguments all over again.
In what way do you think that's happening? Is it because they say she's a new double 0? I just end up wondering what we're saying they would do if they didn't want to reveal she's 007. I find it curious we're accusing them of 'loving' playing with the reveal which they've done by never saying she is 007 (in English anyway) and not commenting on it. They haven't been saying 'Bond has been replaced, but by whom?' or anything like that- there's no building up or hinting at it been going on. I don't see the teasing: it's just not something that anyone but fans would be really interested enough to piece together and read between the lines. The vast majority of people will just see the trailer, hear she's a new double 0, and then not think any further about it until the film comes out. They're not interested in extremely oblique teases.
If they hadn't said she was a double O fans would still be guessing she's 007 because of the set-up of the film, and then the film company would still be accused of stirring things up. I think folks have decided an awful lot based on almost no action at all being taken, and then the promo dept are being painted in a negative light for this act, which even if they were doing it would be in the cause of promoting the film, which isn't really such a terrible thing. I can't understand the problem.
The worst that happens is that you get some people who haven't understood a headline and not read the article it's above say they won't watch a film, and then when the film comes out months later they'll have forgotten and watch it anyway. If they still think James Bond isn't in a movie which has a poster with a big picture of Daniel Craig on it when it comes out then there's not much which can be done to help them
As millions in the U.S. have just voted against toxic masculinity and are celebrating that Kamala Harris is the-first-woman-(of-colour)-Vice-President-Elect, our "usual online sociopolitical arguments" perhaps gain (despite the contortions of our fannish niche) some resonance in the real-life zeitgeist.
Yes I've been hearing from other fans who have seen groups on Facebook or whatever with people who have read this and said 'I won't watch a film with a black woman in it' or whatever, and I think it's interesting that people like that (and I'm not commenting on anyone here incidentally, because that's not what anyone is saying) have shown their bigotry and also their lack of understanding as to just simply what is actually going on. It's interesting that the two go together!
Bigotry plus Arrogance equals stupidity, Hard to believe in this day and age this crap
still gets someone to go along with it.
From what I've seen from the trailer her character makes a fine 007, as befitting the
Number an obvious exceptional agent ( Probably as good as me )
stand alone movie, I'd watch it.
As for James Bond 007, I want a hard drinking, womanising, fast driving, fighting Bloke.
I hate sexism, stereotypes and intolerance of all nations So I don't really care what the skin
colour of the actor playing him is, ............ just so long as he's not a Bloody American
Is Dutch ok?
I agree. And it is exactly because I have kept my distance from NTTD news that I mistook the headline for something else.
I feel bad now! Joshua, I really hope I haven't given away too much of the film for you-I don't want to affect your enjoyment of it when we finally get to watch it. Well done for staying away from reading about it. I read too much on here about SPECTRE before it came out and it did affect my enjoyment of the film a bit. There were bits where I knew what was coming, so I resolved to not do the same with No Time To Die, and other than some stuff I've seen, including what I put on this thread, I've managed to keep away from it (although the Spoilers thread is very tempting...).
I confess I misremembered:
Lynch explicitly says she's a double-oh, without saying she's got the number 007, same as in the trailer, same as in the article Asp shows us at the top of the page. Otherwise she's talking about her characters attitude.
So I don't know if theres ever been official evidence she's 007?
(Malik on the other hand says "I don't even know my characters final name" at 3:10. He is consciously teasing a rumour that was doing the rounds at the time! That's why I think they are well aware of online rumours)
Here's why I believe it is all part of EON's marketing plan:
Modern marketing departments employ social media teams, and part of a successful social media campaign is to make discussions related to the product go viral. A good way to make discussion go viral is to piggyback on ongoing controversy in the larger world (the things people are arguing about online anyway), an thus inspire articles with clickbait headlines.
And I think its actually only Bondgeeks like us who take the time to carefully parse the trailer and remember she is saying she is a new "double oh", not even explicitly 007 let alone the "new James Bond".
Anecdotally in real life, acquaintances who know I'm a BondFan have repeatedly tried to start conversations with me saying "I heard the new James Bond is going to be played by a black woman".
They are more likely to have heard this rumour than they are to know the title of the new film.
Normal people don't watch the trailer (trailers aren't even that big a part of modern marketing), normal people do remember what they've read in clickbait headlines.
Exactly this has happened to me as well in the last couple of weeks - several times!
Not sure if it was intentional from EON, but if it was, it has backfired - my opinion.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Only in the foreign language version of the last main trailer; never in English either in print or interviews. It's clearly not something they've been playing up- if they wanted to play it up they would have created some sort of mystery about her, and they haven't.
What they have wanted people to know is that she is a young, relatively inexperienced but fit double O who is sceptical about Bond.
Likewise the Dr No is not based on anything Eon have planted- it's just based on some fans noticing he like Japanese things.
This is a bit of stretch, I think. How exactly are you saying they've done this? By not saying anything at all? And that they wouldn't put something in the trailers (except that they have in the Italian version etc.) if they wanted to promote it? Is that too easy or something?
I mean seriously: our evidence that they've wanted people to talk about it is that they've never mentioned it at all? That's not really great PR!
Way back just before they started filming I'm pretty sure I was actually the first person on this site to suggest that she might be 007, and I fully expected them to go the whole hog on the whole 'meet the new 007!' thing, but they haven't at all. Maybe their plan is make a thing out of it very close to release or actually just after the film has come out, I don't know. But so far they've obviously not wanted to lean on it at all.
It's long seemed likely that the bit in the trailer where M asks where 007 is he isn't referring to Bond.
This idea was apparently first considered for Miranda Frost/Gala Brand in Die Another Day- that she would have the 007 designation after Bond had been abandoned in North Korea.
I was working at EON during DAD and never was Mirada Frost going to be 007, you are correct about Gala Brand though -{
I always quite liked that nickname Q used, calling Bond 'double O zero'- I was kind of hoping he was actually going to be officially called that for the film, getting 007 back at the end, because it was quite cool!
Sorry, let me re-state my point. Many among the majority of people who are pleased that Kamala Harris, as a woman of colour, is the US's Vice President-Elect might also welcome, in the world of film, a leading recurring role for a black woman OO. Those who don't wouldn't but, as emtiem said, that's not meant as a reference to anyone in this forum. In saying this, I don't wish to trivialise real-world politics by drawing parallels with film fans' different opinions about possible developments in diversity in the Bond franchise.