The scene with Bond following Paloma into the wine cellar and bond assuming she was coming onto him but she’s just trying to get him dressed..
The “another kid?” Quip at Swann’s house..
Bond coyly making introductions and saying…. “My family….” In the middle of an intense and desperate operation ..
The entire emasculating of the Bond character theme had her fingerprints all over it.. but.. if you know otherwise.. please show us proof.. and my apologies.. but it reeks of today’s Hollywood and the Fleabag feel.. and Waller-Bridge is in lock step with that agenda..
I watched NTTD a few days ago now and it’s taken me this long to process it. Coming out of the theatre I felt down. Over the following days, I think I may even have been mourning. I’ve lost close family members in life so I don’t say that flippantly. But here I am, a few days later, and I finally feel as if I’m starting to see the film in a little perspective.
In my opinion it’s great film - and actually it’s a great Bond film at that. It’s easy to look at previous films and say they did this in OHMSS or that in YOLT, but the fact is they didn’t have the same baggage to carry when they made those films. NTTD gives us great action, some carefully chosen nods to the past that we can appreciate and some wit and one liners that work too. It’s not perfect - the plot is a bit convoluted and it’s hard to understand Safin’s motivation - but then it probably ought to be hard to understand what motivates an evil mastermind (I think I’d be worried if I found I completely relate to him!). It even manages to make Spectre feel like a better movie, which is remarkable because I really didn’t care for Spectre.
I’m not going to review the whole film, just give my take on the two most controversial issues. First, Bond’s daughter. I thought this works completely. With all the casual sex Bond has, surely it’s inevitable he’d get a girl pregnant at some point. The rabbit in the headlights look on his face as he cuts the apple with his knife struck me as brilliant acting and I related to it, thinking about my own early moments of being a father. Bond can certainly be a Dad - Fleming even wrote in OHMSS that Bond felt ready to have kids.
And so the ending. When I left the theatre I felt cheated and bruised. How could they have killed our hero? That’s not what I wanted to see. But over the last few days I’ve realised something. This was not only inevitable but actually bold, brave and applaudable. Since CR, Craig has given us a grittier, more real life Bond. Bond is not a super hero. He’s a flawed man doing his best and pulling off some extraordinary feats. I suspect that’s why so many of us relate to him in one way or another. We can dream of putting aside our own flaws and being extraordinary too. But in dying, doesn’t Bond let us down? Well it turns out the answer is no.
Bond is a serviceman. He gives up his life in the ultimate sacrifice to save the world. In the real world, we honour our servicemen and women who sacrifice themselves in the line of duty and they are rightly hailed as heroes. In killing James Bond, the filmmakers have not only described his ultimate humanity, but I believe they also attempt to honour every man and woman who have given their life for our freedom too. And in that sense, it makes James Bond a hero by the greatest measures we have.
Perhaps it’s hard to watch Bond die because we’ve just been through 18 months of pain in the form of a pandemic. Or perhaps it’s just hard to watch someone you have a strong affiliation with die, even if they are only a fictional character. But with the passage of time to give a clearer perspective on this film in the future, I believe that despite my current feelings of depression after watching it, NTTD will be viewed as a classic, right up there with the very best.
Agree with others. There is a lot to enjoy in this film. Matera scenes are some of the best in any Bond film, so worth going for that alone. It's just the ending for me. As Tim once said; "Brace yourself".
I agree - it truly is a fantastic film. It feels weird to say that about a movie that has made me feel so depressed, but I think that's a testament to how powerful it is.
The missile strike didn’t leave much to the imagination, so there’s not much to go on for anyone who wants to believe Bond survived. I initially disliked that the film left no room for interpretation and thought it was a mistake on the part of the filmmakers, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that the certainty Bond has been killed, and the sense of loss that makes you feel, is actually an important element of the story they’re trying to tell.
I wonder if the different endings that were shot were not alternative storylines but rather different ways of portraying the same thing - perhaps Bond dies in each alternative ending but was shown with differing levels of ambiguity. If so, the ending that is part of the movie was likely the most unambiguous ending and I can understand why they chose it. It’s an ending that makes us feel emotional, generates heated discussion and polarises feelings, and is an ending like no other Bond film in the history of the franchise. From those perspectives, I think it’s bold.
Who knows what it means for the future of the Bond series, but when the dust settles I suspect a new Bond will rock up and, if they get the casting right and create a great story in its own right, we’ll all watch it for what it is and enjoy it whist forgetting about all of today’s discussions. NTTD will just fade into one of the many films that make up the Bond canon and we’ll remember what is great about it…
As depressing as it was to see Bond die at the end, I agree that it was a bold move that added real weight to the film. But it would have meant so much more to me if what preceded the death had been done better. I could tell everyone involved worked hard to make a great Bond movie, but for me there were too many instances where it appeared they were trying too hard to have an impact and failed. A minor example - when Bond was kneeling to Safin saying “I’m sorry, I’m sorry”, while surreptitiously reaching for his gun. That scene seems very strained. Bond’s pleas aren’t the least bit convincing and we could see the payoff coming a mile away. This may appear to be a minor quibble, and admittedly it may be. But there are too many scenes that struck me the same way and I believe the writing and directing are to blame. As I’ve noted previously, I will absolutely see the movie again, probably several more times. But the impression I had immediately after seeing it still lingers - a major letdown.
The thing about the scene above @Blackleiter - and the stuff in Cuba, and most of it, is that it lacks for me any kind of authenticity. It's out of the Die Another Day playbook. If a) I don't believe in it and b) It's depressing, well it's the worst of both worlds.
It really does feel like the kind of movie that would be made if some other production studio got hold of Bond and did its own thing, it has the whiff of Never Say Never Again too, something persistently just not right.
"Part of it is because back then, the effort was to frame things a particular way and to make sure everything was in focus and had depth of field. The color palette complimented everything else so nothing just faded. In the past few decades, though, much of that has gone out the window, with a more documentary approach and an artsy blurring of backgrounds and such. That's what NTTD relied heavily on, along with Fukunaga's brooding quality to the pacing. Or so I felt."
I agree. Modern cinematography, especially for actions films, has been too much influenced by the Borne films. None of the Borne films were, for me, exciting to watch, despite the well choreographed (some would say over-choreographed) fight scenes. Like watching a film when you are drunk. Too much camera movement and fast cutting every nano-second.
Thought I spotted a second Gun Barrel scene near the end when he's in Safin's lair Bond walks from right to left with camera looking down the tunnel and he turns and shoot's at the camera made me smile .
I think the overall problem with this movie is that they are trying to pick up the pieces left behind from spectre, and none of whats in that movie landed or felt legitimate or earned. I Actually like Lea Seydoux as an actress who played Madeline and was excited that she was the new bond girl in spectre, but the execution of their love story was so contrived, that in the end I really didn't care or believe it was a legitimate romance. Even the people who made that movie knows what's wrong with it. Why would they double down on it?
The writing and execution in the first quarter of the this movie was pretty good up to a point but the basis for the characters just weren't there for me, again cuz it so heavily relies on spectre. You could call this spectre 2 tbh
The concept of Bond having a child and the fact that it's a daughter on top of it Is actually a genius move as a concept on paper, its kinda like poetic justice for him. The idea that he has to really commit and care and actually be responsible for someone more than yourself. Having that character be his daughter could have been deeply profound in that way. They could have also addressed his relationship with women through the daughter character. That would be addressing the misogyny and faults in his character. Maybe even could address the vesper Lind history that made Bond unable to commit to any real relationships with women because of how his heart was basically ripped out of his chest by Vesper. I'll give Daniel Craig this, he knocked it out of the park with this movie in terms of his acting, especially in a few key scenes. He made me really feel like he realises his life has just turned upside down the moment he saw his daughters eyes. He genuinely made me tear up couple times in the film if I'm being honest. Any scene with Bond and his daughter was elevated by Craig's acting, and almost made up for some of the lackluster writing in the film. He made me really feel Bonds urgency and angst from her safety being in jeopardy. The daughter aspect, if it was utilised more and written better, could have had the potential to make this something really special and powerful. You could potentially really disect Bond through the daughter character, break his character down, address his issues and still feel like everything organically came together, cuz there could be a central focal point for it all, his new daughter. Come to think of it, it's actually not that dissimilar to the concept of what they did for wolverine in Logan.
Ok...Ana de armas was a total smoke show in this role! Holy hell she was good. Her character was badass, playful and intrigueing and that made her even sexier. I didn't think she could get more attractive but this role definitely did it. She should have been Bonds sidekick throughout the movie and become friends with him instead, moving away from a potentially cliched romance. Maybe there could have been a throughline in the film with him becoming sort of her mentor along the way since he's pretty much the most seasoned agent and she's insecure with how good she is. You can even still have the "saying no" scene later in the movie as their partnership grows and maybe some awkwardness leading to a back and forth conversation. Maybe he tells her about Vesper. Wnatever. Something like that would have felt organic, served as character development for Bond and some more three-dimensional depth to her character. Makes the "saying no" moment maybe actually mean something in the movie rather than a throwaway comedic jab at Bonds character.
LaShawna Lynch was fine. The hate for this movie for her being 007 and ppl just assuming that this is more of her movie than James bonds or she's taking power away from Bond and she's taking over, screw feminism, PC agenda pushing bitches, etc etc... I never subscribed to any of that nonsense. It's almost like people are trained and groomed these days to react like that without ever giving anything a chance....hey wait a minute🤔. I like her as an actress, was looking forward to see her performance. Problem is I never understood her character's initial hostility with Bond, I was like why is she going undercover and manipulating him into bringing her back to his place just to stick it to him and show him up. Could of had the same conversation in a different way maybe in a conventional way, idk doesn't matter. I have a feeling that her character doesn't like Bond for his history of misogyny and filandering, but nothing about him as an agent. So the writers prolly decided they should have her characters main reason for not liking bond to actually be a general critique of men in society??? not cuz she has a grudge against him, or he always sucked at his job, or from some personal altercation with him. That's the type of shoehorning of PC agendas that sane ppl of the audience are talking about. Give her a real reason not to like Bond and you can still have her give him **** about his relationship with women. Also you'd think they would have just started out as platonic competition instead of trying to one up and literary sabotage each other's missions when they both have literally the same goal, especially when the stakes are potentially so high. You think maybe she would look up to bond a little, wouldn't the new agents and recruits look up to bond? Wouldn't they all want to secretly be like him, not as a person, but as an agent? Since when is going by the book and putting down your legendary predecessors an interesting character trait. Aren't you supposed to like her by the end of the movie? They didn't give any real scene or event that gets them to respect each other to follow through on squashing the animosity, so what was the whole point? At least Naomi Harris's character didn't have all this nonsense. No newcomer is just going to give a middle finger to the previous guy when he's freaking James Bond, he should be a legend amongst new agents. This whole thing of Bond being out of his time and too old was addressed in Skyfall and spectre so that stuff felt tired. I have no problem with the ideals that were being pushed to be PC and give Bond some me too'ing, but the execution is too forced. At least itsl not as bad as Disney's Star wars tho. There is a way to do this people, organically, where it doesn't feel like a soapbox.
Side note, felt the action was a bit underwhelming in this movie. It peaked with the scene in the first half with that goon shooting away at Madeline's window in the car and James just letting it happen while he deliberates wether to trust her or not. Great Bond moment and was narratively creative. This whole scene is totally Bond and badass. You believe Bond would be an asshole and do something like that. For the most part though this series has lost its edge especially in the action scenes, starting with some parts of Skyfall and heavily with spectre. They just came across as made to look pretty and expensive and putting more effort into the camera work trying to get everything in one one shots rather than making the action actually exciting. You guys remember the parkour scene leading to the shootout at the embassy in Casino Royale?! Those action scenes have so much edge to them, you feel the danger bond is in. Editing is one of the most important components to action scenes and these just feel like constantly unnecessary long takes. Now we even have parts where he is just walking right out in the open, firing his gun vaguely in bad guys direction, on a set that probably costed 1/4 of the movies budget. Even holding his gun from the hip at times and still casually just hitting his mark every time. All the while with the bond theme blaring in the background. Did the same thing in spectre at the desert scene. Just seemed like a total waste and honestly a bit lazy. The SUV Chase was ok I guess but it has Bond literally nudging his car into the bad guys cars just once and they go flying in to some convenient obstacle or hit a ramp that launches them into a flip. A lot of the action is like this and it comes off as just lazy even though they spend hundreds of millions of dollars making these movies.
All that being said I didn't hate the movie, if you watch it just as a spy drama it's not that bad. I didn't get bored really that much even tho it's almost 3 hrs. So take that for what it's worth. There's annoying bits of comedy and one liners that come off as awkward rather than funny. Always thought that kind of stuff didnt fit for Craig's films. Rami Malek was good, but underrutilized. His characters ultimate goal was not really clearly defined, at least to me, but I think he served his purpose in the movie. Nothing more nothing less. For me I didn't mind bond dieing, and the film for the most part earned it, was done decently enough.
It's certainly better than quantum of solace and spectre. A serviceable end to Daniel Craig's era. Although, I have noticed things about these last 3 films and they make me feel that ever since The Dark Knight came out, the people behind these films have been trying to copy Chris Nolan's aesthetics, that should stop. But that's a whole nother conversation.
"Part of it is because back then, the effort was to frame things a particular way and to make sure everything was in focus and had depth of field.... much of that has gone out the window, with a more documentary approach and an artsy blurring of backgrounds and such. That's what NTTD relied heavily on, along with Fukunaga's brooding quality to the pacing. Or so I felt."
I agree with you @Gassy Man.
This sort of shooting style seems to have come from the Bourne films, which makes the action scenes and fight scenes confusing and boring. Like watching a film standing on your head after a few drinks.
I trust your take one hundred percent Napoleon, indeed that will not be a good feel being reminded of the NSN vibe......may just walk out after the Blofeld scene...
I liked the move overall. It had all the elements I expect in a Bond film. My wife enjoyed the family angle, so there's that.
The thread comments conceding or even somewhat lauding 007's, er, sorry, Bond's demise smack a bit of Stockholm Syndrome though. IMO I can't think of a better way to alienate fans of the franchise aside from politicizing it.
Typically my excitement and euphoria when I see a new Bond film clouds my judgment on first viewing. And, indeed, for about the first 45 minutes of NTTD I was wondering if this could possibly become the best Bond movie ever. But around the point where Blofeld dies the film started to lose me.
I know there’s a lot of hate over SP and most people act like they wanted the story arc developed in that one to never be mentioned again. But the Craig era presented the SPECTRE and Blofeld characters as the culmination of all his previous films. And Blofeld has been Bond’s arch-nemesis for nearly 60 years. I never wanted to see Craig’s final Bond movie to just dismiss everything and pretend like it didn’t happen.
But the way this was handled was really anti-climatic. Bond plays no part in SPECTRE’s demise. And do we really want the most satisfying on-screen Blofed death to be, by default, in DAF? I sure don’t. (Although I appreciate the “Die Blofeld! Die!” nod to Fleming’s YOLT.)
I feel Christoph Waltz was an exceptional Blofeld. He really needed to be the main villain in the Garden of Death just like from the original YOLT novel.
I could go on and on, but to keep it short I’ll just jump to my final thoughts at the movie’s conclusion. I remember when these movies used to be pure escapism and more fun to watch. And I feel many think it’s no longer acceptable for men to identify with the James Bond character so the Fun Police™ have to step in and tell us what we’re allowed to enjoy in movies, video games and other entertainment. Without going too much off on a tangent I feel like this movie suffers from that more than any other previous Bond.
Everyone’s life sucks these days, but I was looking forward to this premiere. Yet - something is wrong with the ending of a Bond film when I leave the theater more depressed than when I entered. While I admire the courage that the producers had to end the movie the way they did, I’m sure there were other ways to give the series a sense of finality without making you feel like you just attended James Bond’s funeral. Maybe in time my feelings will change about the ending.
That's a good review, @thextractor123 and welcome to the forum - though your arrival is a bit like someone turning up at a church where a funeral is being held in a bid to get to know the deceased!
The scene you describe, where Bond is established as being in utter peril and in overall dread but he walks into a Spectre meeting with a silly seeming novice then walks out just blasting away like you do... sums it up.
The bad jokes - the worst must be the one about how he showed someone Q's wristwatch and it blew their mind. Admittedly not too many of them however.
Someone got flamed a bit for insinuating they know which bits Phoebe Waller-Bridge wrote. I'm not sure we do unless we go on the dark web or something. But one might surmise that the whole Nomi 007 character was made up belatedly and the original Knives Out actress was to be his long-term sidekick in this. After all, Nomi just sort of tags along in that scene and every other. I can see the whole idea of it brings something to the table and made good pre-publicity to be fair but if you took her out, I can't see what she adds to the plot points. I mean, Leiter was the one trying to arrange the Spectre meeting so what is the new 007 doing out there?
Here's a thought - Craig's Bond could have found out that he had a daughter - and it was Madeleine! That he'd banged Mrs White all those years ago. That would be a twist.
Incidentally, does Bond cop off with anyone in this film other than Madeline in the pre-credits? Not sure he does.
I initially assumed that Nomi was in the film to provide a sight gag - 'Where's 007?' and a black woman walks in. Shame they pulled the punch on that one.
I can't work out why they brought Blofeld back for one film as a major character and killed him off in the next film. I was hoping that the Craig films went on to have Blofeld and Spectre in at least a few other films. Indeed, I expected the Craig films to go on and "remake" Dr No, From Russia with Love, Goldfinger etc. Such a wasted opportunity.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,746Chief of Staff
I saw the film this morning in the Imax and upon reflection came out quite stunned or to borrow a lyric, dazed and confused. So this will probably be a bit rambling and more of a stream of conscious than considered review having read previous solid reviews from other members.
Objectively I enjoyed the film but as a Bond fan I am uncertain how I will feel about it in the long run. I never tire of Casino Royale, I think QOS is unfairly derided (but I see its shortcomings), Skyfall I'm not a fan of (whilst I initially enjoyed it and was swept up by the hype, it seems OTT with all the references, feels gimmicky, rips off The Dark Knight, the weak and childish "think on your sins" hacking aaaand they killed Judi Dench!), Spectre was just a bit meh.
I was giggling at some of the jokes and enjoyed seeing some gadgets. I thought the action was largely good such as Matera but often rehashed such as another stairwell fight and the serviceable driving scene in Norway. One thing I loved was the murder of Ash but that shouldn't have come at the cost of Wright's Leiter (I loved his version of Felix from the off so I was saddened to watch him die which I suppose is all the more credit to Wright for his portrayal). I was immediately reminded of FYEO and I liked that but I suppose this highlights another comment made earlier where amongst the fans some references are well received and others less so. Such as me not liking the nods in Skyfall but enjoying one in NTTD (I would argue its far subtler).
I personally wasn't that sold on Harris as MP and Whishaw as Q when first introduced (again not a Skyfall fan) however they acquit themselves well here and I was happy to see them. To the user who made the homosexuality comment, if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything. What was brought to my attention though was the complete lack of chemistry between Craig and Seydoux, I just didn't buy it. I felt there was better chemistry between Bond and Paloma and Bond and Nomi and looking back to Spectre it seems more glaring there now too. I can see Bond sacrificing everything for Vesper but not Madeline.
NTTD and its ending are the logical progression for Craig's Bond. When it began working up to it I could see there really being no way out, no nod or wink and it was a shock and somewhat depressing. Its a bold decision and in many ways I admire it but I don't think it works. The thrill of Bond is not wondering whether he'll make it out alive, it's how he'll make it out alive. I know Craig's tenure has been about adding more grit and realism and adhering closer to the feel of the books but I think the death of Bond is a step too far, for me anyway. I know I'll sound like a broken record but another thing that irked me about Skyfall is the talk about Bond aging and getting old, how he's an analogue man in digital world and other such. The reason I think that and killing Bond doesn't work is because he is a timeless character (in the sense that the films have been rolling on since the 60s, not that he can straddle any era) so surely if you want to keep them going then you have to accept that he'll get into some scrapes but will ultimately survive, have a bit of a break and then start on another mission.
The tying together of all the films whilst it initially held promise was wasted in the Spectre and the "I've been there all along, hiding in the shadows" by the famous author of "All Your Pain", Mr Franz Oberhauser.
I think I need to collect my thoughts and revisit this in the morning lol.
Goodnight
NB. Bond must have had blue balls in NTTD being spurned by Paloma (I am a big fan of de Armas) and no other lovers in sight
I'm always amazed at how much they spend to make movies these days and then how little they often show. Rather than Daniel Craig's 50-foot head projected onto the silver screen for minutes at a time, I'd like to see more of the lair so I get a sense of its weight and scale or the countryside, and not just some dreary, empty tract of road winding through some rainy mountains. And things don't need to shake so much -- the idea that a camera like that is more real only counts if we're trembling all the time.
Fair enough…. My point was only that the changes in dialogue style - to emasculate the character- were a far stretch from the previous Craig films.. acknowledging my hunch is purely speculative.. but reasonable speculation.. in the end.. Waller Bridge is a denizen of the new Hollywood “woke” culture.. as were the slants of these few examples of dialogue which were substantially different from what we’d heard before.. I could be wrong.. but.. I could also be absolutely on point..
regardless.. it was in no way meant to spark debate.. this is a “review thread” no? Reviews are opinions.. I’d reassert that my opinion- based on history of the series under DC’s tenure.. plus also DC stating she’d been brought in to “punch up” the dialogue…. And suddenly the film has some very different style in parts.. that coincidentally echo the woke feel of Fleabag.. (granted i didn’t last through one episode of that )
Id say my hunch is something that could be spot on.. and if not.. eh…. I’m wrong.. and that’s fine too…
in the end…. A Bond film had to bend the knee, even if just in minor nuance, to Hollywood “woke” sensitivity.. it’s just a matter of opinion and observation is all.
Well, let's not get all het up over what part of it Waller-Bridger wrote. We think it's the reverse sexism stuff because we can't see her coming up with major plot points or twists by herself rightly or wrongly. I don't want to come across like Justice minister Dominic Raab and his 'misogny' comments - though he doesn't know what he means, I can't spell it!
Killing Eve is all about a young female assassin with no moral scruples who runs rings around men. She's be a great Bond villain but it's all from her point of view and I admit I missed that, so thought Waller-Bridger would be a great writer.
One main gripe that's occurred to me is the music just isn't that memorable. I suppose if you go with something emotive it might just alienate some of the audience. That Craig Armstrong piece used in Romeo + Juliet, The Space Between Us, I think it's called, that's knockout stuff. There's nothing too distinctive or moving musically in this film save of course the old Barry stuff and while it's nice to see him back, it's something of an unearned emotion. With the last film, Spectre, I really did enjoy some of that Ibiza lounge stuff, it created an atmosphere, a mood. There seems to be none of that here, so the film resembles a bit of Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls, where Williams' score just doesn't evoke anything in contrast to his Temple of Doom score.
Music can do so much to enhance a film, particularly the emotional aspect, if handled well. At no point did I dislike Zimmer's score but bearing in mind the themes of the film, there's no musical cue I'm aware of that does anything here. Along with the theme tune which I still can't hum, there is no big thing going on here musically.
I disagree. I was concerned that this film would have too much of what you are describing, but it didn’t materialize in my opinion. I’ve got some issues with the film, but that is not one of them.
When it comes to the women, Bond did feel a bit neutered. Regarding PWB's overhauling of the script I thought she was brought in to make sure the film treated the Bond women better whilst still allowing Bond to be his womanising self, unlessing I'm missing the fact that he was bereft at the breakdown of his relationship with Madeline so not overly interested in others?
Didn't really buy the joke from Bond about M "being thirsty", pot calling the kettle black from James "Half 00, half Martini" Bond but for me a lot of the other jokes landed well.
@Gymkata you do make a good point about Bond not living out into his golden years, with a gadgetised zimmer frame as he takes down Blofeld in the assisted living home. I think my preference would have been for an ambiguous ending but I still respect their decision to go with his death.
I can understand some of the feelings people have about "Bond going woke". But I also feel some people are layering this whole "He's too PC!" stuff on a little thick.
Personally, I didn't see any real problems with Bond's relationships with women in this film. He had Nomi pegged as a suspicious outsider the moment he saw her on the side of the road. And after his conversation with Felix, he knew there would be other players on the field and she was an obvious candidate. I've heard some people getting upset Bond rode passenger on her scooter. To me that was no different than Connery hitching a ride with Volpe (and getting nervous about her driving fast! 😮). Of course the Bond of old would have slept with Nomi. And maybe the fact that Craig's Bond didn't is a sign of our times. But I don't feel like Bond was emasculated because he decided to recognize a black woman as a fellow professional and leave it at that instead of trying to get her into bed.
As for Paloma: after the endless jokes of Moore seducing women who were clearly too young for him, I'm just fine with a 50+ year old Bond being a little uncomfortable with what he incorrectly perceives as Paloma's sexual advances. And I honestly thought the "Could you turn around, please" line was quite funny.
Yes I had issues with the whole "Bond the family man" aspects of the plot. But not because it was "woke". For me it was just poorly written. I get that it was supposed to be "character development". And, if the writing hadn't been so lazy, it could have added a new and welcome dimension to who he was and how he had grown. But in no universe did I ever imagine Bond dying holding a stuffed animal. It was a silly prop and took something away from the scene, imho. For comparison, I'd say the tone of Wolverine's death in Logan was a great example of how you can successfully kill an indestructable hero in a way that has genuine emotional impact and leaves the audience satisfied (at least in terms of a comic book movie.
For me, the absolute worst example of Bond getting emasculated is still the limo scene in TND. M and Moneypenny take turns mocking Bond's sexual prowess and Brosnan just sits there like a petulant man-child. I haven't seen anything in a Craig film that comes even remotely close to that bit of obnoxiously PC dialog (and that includes Bond literally having his balls beaten 😁).
Comments
The scene with Bond following Paloma into the wine cellar and bond assuming she was coming onto him but she’s just trying to get him dressed..
The “another kid?” Quip at Swann’s house..
Bond coyly making introductions and saying…. “My family….” In the middle of an intense and desperate operation ..
The entire emasculating of the Bond character theme had her fingerprints all over it.. but.. if you know otherwise.. please show us proof.. and my apologies.. but it reeks of today’s Hollywood and the Fleabag feel.. and Waller-Bridge is in lock step with that agenda..
I watched NTTD a few days ago now and it’s taken me this long to process it. Coming out of the theatre I felt down. Over the following days, I think I may even have been mourning. I’ve lost close family members in life so I don’t say that flippantly. But here I am, a few days later, and I finally feel as if I’m starting to see the film in a little perspective.
In my opinion it’s great film - and actually it’s a great Bond film at that. It’s easy to look at previous films and say they did this in OHMSS or that in YOLT, but the fact is they didn’t have the same baggage to carry when they made those films. NTTD gives us great action, some carefully chosen nods to the past that we can appreciate and some wit and one liners that work too. It’s not perfect - the plot is a bit convoluted and it’s hard to understand Safin’s motivation - but then it probably ought to be hard to understand what motivates an evil mastermind (I think I’d be worried if I found I completely relate to him!). It even manages to make Spectre feel like a better movie, which is remarkable because I really didn’t care for Spectre.
I’m not going to review the whole film, just give my take on the two most controversial issues. First, Bond’s daughter. I thought this works completely. With all the casual sex Bond has, surely it’s inevitable he’d get a girl pregnant at some point. The rabbit in the headlights look on his face as he cuts the apple with his knife struck me as brilliant acting and I related to it, thinking about my own early moments of being a father. Bond can certainly be a Dad - Fleming even wrote in OHMSS that Bond felt ready to have kids.
And so the ending. When I left the theatre I felt cheated and bruised. How could they have killed our hero? That’s not what I wanted to see. But over the last few days I’ve realised something. This was not only inevitable but actually bold, brave and applaudable. Since CR, Craig has given us a grittier, more real life Bond. Bond is not a super hero. He’s a flawed man doing his best and pulling off some extraordinary feats. I suspect that’s why so many of us relate to him in one way or another. We can dream of putting aside our own flaws and being extraordinary too. But in dying, doesn’t Bond let us down? Well it turns out the answer is no.
Bond is a serviceman. He gives up his life in the ultimate sacrifice to save the world. In the real world, we honour our servicemen and women who sacrifice themselves in the line of duty and they are rightly hailed as heroes. In killing James Bond, the filmmakers have not only described his ultimate humanity, but I believe they also attempt to honour every man and woman who have given their life for our freedom too. And in that sense, it makes James Bond a hero by the greatest measures we have.
Perhaps it’s hard to watch Bond die because we’ve just been through 18 months of pain in the form of a pandemic. Or perhaps it’s just hard to watch someone you have a strong affiliation with die, even if they are only a fictional character. But with the passage of time to give a clearer perspective on this film in the future, I believe that despite my current feelings of depression after watching it, NTTD will be viewed as a classic, right up there with the very best.
GT
Agree with others. There is a lot to enjoy in this film. Matera scenes are some of the best in any Bond film, so worth going for that alone. It's just the ending for me. As Tim once said; "Brace yourself".
The problem is its not a bold ending, I always feel dieing at the end is cop out
usually done at the actors instance as condition of making the film.
Denial Craig will walk away and leave evey one else to pick uk the pieces..
It also has to be said there is no death scene like Judy dench in Sky Fall (there couldent be Bond cant die)
more of an assumed implication.
Having said all this it is a otherwise a fantastic film.
A bold ending would have been like the end of first man, Bond and Madeleine with a sheet of glass between them.
they reach out to touch and touch the glass, cut roll credits, Bond theme end.
I can see the next film starting with new Bond washed up on a beach having been blown free.
I agree - it truly is a fantastic film. It feels weird to say that about a movie that has made me feel so depressed, but I think that's a testament to how powerful it is.
The missile strike didn’t leave much to the imagination, so there’s not much to go on for anyone who wants to believe Bond survived. I initially disliked that the film left no room for interpretation and thought it was a mistake on the part of the filmmakers, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that the certainty Bond has been killed, and the sense of loss that makes you feel, is actually an important element of the story they’re trying to tell.
I wonder if the different endings that were shot were not alternative storylines but rather different ways of portraying the same thing - perhaps Bond dies in each alternative ending but was shown with differing levels of ambiguity. If so, the ending that is part of the movie was likely the most unambiguous ending and I can understand why they chose it. It’s an ending that makes us feel emotional, generates heated discussion and polarises feelings, and is an ending like no other Bond film in the history of the franchise. From those perspectives, I think it’s bold.
Who knows what it means for the future of the Bond series, but when the dust settles I suspect a new Bond will rock up and, if they get the casting right and create a great story in its own right, we’ll all watch it for what it is and enjoy it whist forgetting about all of today’s discussions. NTTD will just fade into one of the many films that make up the Bond canon and we’ll remember what is great about it…
As depressing as it was to see Bond die at the end, I agree that it was a bold move that added real weight to the film. But it would have meant so much more to me if what preceded the death had been done better. I could tell everyone involved worked hard to make a great Bond movie, but for me there were too many instances where it appeared they were trying too hard to have an impact and failed. A minor example - when Bond was kneeling to Safin saying “I’m sorry, I’m sorry”, while surreptitiously reaching for his gun. That scene seems very strained. Bond’s pleas aren’t the least bit convincing and we could see the payoff coming a mile away. This may appear to be a minor quibble, and admittedly it may be. But there are too many scenes that struck me the same way and I believe the writing and directing are to blame. As I’ve noted previously, I will absolutely see the movie again, probably several more times. But the impression I had immediately after seeing it still lingers - a major letdown.
The thing about the scene above @Blackleiter - and the stuff in Cuba, and most of it, is that it lacks for me any kind of authenticity. It's out of the Die Another Day playbook. If a) I don't believe in it and b) It's depressing, well it's the worst of both worlds.
It really does feel like the kind of movie that would be made if some other production studio got hold of Bond and did its own thing, it has the whiff of Never Say Never Again too, something persistently just not right.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
"Part of it is because back then, the effort was to frame things a particular way and to make sure everything was in focus and had depth of field. The color palette complimented everything else so nothing just faded. In the past few decades, though, much of that has gone out the window, with a more documentary approach and an artsy blurring of backgrounds and such. That's what NTTD relied heavily on, along with Fukunaga's brooding quality to the pacing. Or so I felt."
I agree. Modern cinematography, especially for actions films, has been too much influenced by the Borne films. None of the Borne films were, for me, exciting to watch, despite the well choreographed (some would say over-choreographed) fight scenes. Like watching a film when you are drunk. Too much camera movement and fast cutting every nano-second.
Thought I spotted a second Gun Barrel scene near the end when he's in Safin's lair Bond walks from right to left with camera looking down the tunnel and he turns and shoot's at the camera made me smile .
~Heavy spoilers~🍿
~Long Read~📖
I think the overall problem with this movie is that they are trying to pick up the pieces left behind from spectre, and none of whats in that movie landed or felt legitimate or earned. I Actually like Lea Seydoux as an actress who played Madeline and was excited that she was the new bond girl in spectre, but the execution of their love story was so contrived, that in the end I really didn't care or believe it was a legitimate romance. Even the people who made that movie knows what's wrong with it. Why would they double down on it?
The writing and execution in the first quarter of the this movie was pretty good up to a point but the basis for the characters just weren't there for me, again cuz it so heavily relies on spectre. You could call this spectre 2 tbh
The concept of Bond having a child and the fact that it's a daughter on top of it Is actually a genius move as a concept on paper, its kinda like poetic justice for him. The idea that he has to really commit and care and actually be responsible for someone more than yourself. Having that character be his daughter could have been deeply profound in that way. They could have also addressed his relationship with women through the daughter character. That would be addressing the misogyny and faults in his character. Maybe even could address the vesper Lind history that made Bond unable to commit to any real relationships with women because of how his heart was basically ripped out of his chest by Vesper. I'll give Daniel Craig this, he knocked it out of the park with this movie in terms of his acting, especially in a few key scenes. He made me really feel like he realises his life has just turned upside down the moment he saw his daughters eyes. He genuinely made me tear up couple times in the film if I'm being honest. Any scene with Bond and his daughter was elevated by Craig's acting, and almost made up for some of the lackluster writing in the film. He made me really feel Bonds urgency and angst from her safety being in jeopardy. The daughter aspect, if it was utilised more and written better, could have had the potential to make this something really special and powerful. You could potentially really disect Bond through the daughter character, break his character down, address his issues and still feel like everything organically came together, cuz there could be a central focal point for it all, his new daughter. Come to think of it, it's actually not that dissimilar to the concept of what they did for wolverine in Logan.
Ok...Ana de armas was a total smoke show in this role! Holy hell she was good. Her character was badass, playful and intrigueing and that made her even sexier. I didn't think she could get more attractive but this role definitely did it. She should have been Bonds sidekick throughout the movie and become friends with him instead, moving away from a potentially cliched romance. Maybe there could have been a throughline in the film with him becoming sort of her mentor along the way since he's pretty much the most seasoned agent and she's insecure with how good she is. You can even still have the "saying no" scene later in the movie as their partnership grows and maybe some awkwardness leading to a back and forth conversation. Maybe he tells her about Vesper. Wnatever. Something like that would have felt organic, served as character development for Bond and some more three-dimensional depth to her character. Makes the "saying no" moment maybe actually mean something in the movie rather than a throwaway comedic jab at Bonds character.
LaShawna Lynch was fine. The hate for this movie for her being 007 and ppl just assuming that this is more of her movie than James bonds or she's taking power away from Bond and she's taking over, screw feminism, PC agenda pushing bitches, etc etc... I never subscribed to any of that nonsense. It's almost like people are trained and groomed these days to react like that without ever giving anything a chance....hey wait a minute🤔. I like her as an actress, was looking forward to see her performance. Problem is I never understood her character's initial hostility with Bond, I was like why is she going undercover and manipulating him into bringing her back to his place just to stick it to him and show him up. Could of had the same conversation in a different way maybe in a conventional way, idk doesn't matter. I have a feeling that her character doesn't like Bond for his history of misogyny and filandering, but nothing about him as an agent. So the writers prolly decided they should have her characters main reason for not liking bond to actually be a general critique of men in society??? not cuz she has a grudge against him, or he always sucked at his job, or from some personal altercation with him. That's the type of shoehorning of PC agendas that sane ppl of the audience are talking about. Give her a real reason not to like Bond and you can still have her give him **** about his relationship with women. Also you'd think they would have just started out as platonic competition instead of trying to one up and literary sabotage each other's missions when they both have literally the same goal, especially when the stakes are potentially so high. You think maybe she would look up to bond a little, wouldn't the new agents and recruits look up to bond? Wouldn't they all want to secretly be like him, not as a person, but as an agent? Since when is going by the book and putting down your legendary predecessors an interesting character trait. Aren't you supposed to like her by the end of the movie? They didn't give any real scene or event that gets them to respect each other to follow through on squashing the animosity, so what was the whole point? At least Naomi Harris's character didn't have all this nonsense. No newcomer is just going to give a middle finger to the previous guy when he's freaking James Bond, he should be a legend amongst new agents. This whole thing of Bond being out of his time and too old was addressed in Skyfall and spectre so that stuff felt tired. I have no problem with the ideals that were being pushed to be PC and give Bond some me too'ing, but the execution is too forced. At least itsl not as bad as Disney's Star wars tho. There is a way to do this people, organically, where it doesn't feel like a soapbox.
Side note, felt the action was a bit underwhelming in this movie. It peaked with the scene in the first half with that goon shooting away at Madeline's window in the car and James just letting it happen while he deliberates wether to trust her or not. Great Bond moment and was narratively creative. This whole scene is totally Bond and badass. You believe Bond would be an asshole and do something like that. For the most part though this series has lost its edge especially in the action scenes, starting with some parts of Skyfall and heavily with spectre. They just came across as made to look pretty and expensive and putting more effort into the camera work trying to get everything in one one shots rather than making the action actually exciting. You guys remember the parkour scene leading to the shootout at the embassy in Casino Royale?! Those action scenes have so much edge to them, you feel the danger bond is in. Editing is one of the most important components to action scenes and these just feel like constantly unnecessary long takes. Now we even have parts where he is just walking right out in the open, firing his gun vaguely in bad guys direction, on a set that probably costed 1/4 of the movies budget. Even holding his gun from the hip at times and still casually just hitting his mark every time. All the while with the bond theme blaring in the background. Did the same thing in spectre at the desert scene. Just seemed like a total waste and honestly a bit lazy. The SUV Chase was ok I guess but it has Bond literally nudging his car into the bad guys cars just once and they go flying in to some convenient obstacle or hit a ramp that launches them into a flip. A lot of the action is like this and it comes off as just lazy even though they spend hundreds of millions of dollars making these movies.
All that being said I didn't hate the movie, if you watch it just as a spy drama it's not that bad. I didn't get bored really that much even tho it's almost 3 hrs. So take that for what it's worth. There's annoying bits of comedy and one liners that come off as awkward rather than funny. Always thought that kind of stuff didnt fit for Craig's films. Rami Malek was good, but underrutilized. His characters ultimate goal was not really clearly defined, at least to me, but I think he served his purpose in the movie. Nothing more nothing less. For me I didn't mind bond dieing, and the film for the most part earned it, was done decently enough.
It's certainly better than quantum of solace and spectre. A serviceable end to Daniel Craig's era. Although, I have noticed things about these last 3 films and they make me feel that ever since The Dark Knight came out, the people behind these films have been trying to copy Chris Nolan's aesthetics, that should stop. But that's a whole nother conversation.
Thanks for reading.
"It really does feel like the kind of movie that would be made if some other production studio got hold of Bond and did its own thing"
This is how I feel about all the Craig bond films, apart from Casino Royale.
"Part of it is because back then, the effort was to frame things a particular way and to make sure everything was in focus and had depth of field.... much of that has gone out the window, with a more documentary approach and an artsy blurring of backgrounds and such. That's what NTTD relied heavily on, along with Fukunaga's brooding quality to the pacing. Or so I felt."
I agree with you @Gassy Man.
This sort of shooting style seems to have come from the Bourne films, which makes the action scenes and fight scenes confusing and boring. Like watching a film standing on your head after a few drinks.
I trust your take one hundred percent Napoleon, indeed that will not be a good feel being reminded of the NSN vibe......may just walk out after the Blofeld scene...
“Something persistently just not right”. That sums it up perfectly! Here are some things I liked about NTTD:
I liked the move overall. It had all the elements I expect in a Bond film. My wife enjoyed the family angle, so there's that.
The thread comments conceding or even somewhat lauding 007's, er, sorry, Bond's demise smack a bit of Stockholm Syndrome though. IMO I can't think of a better way to alienate fans of the franchise aside from politicizing it.
Typically my excitement and euphoria when I see a new Bond film clouds my judgment on first viewing. And, indeed, for about the first 45 minutes of NTTD I was wondering if this could possibly become the best Bond movie ever. But around the point where Blofeld dies the film started to lose me.
I know there’s a lot of hate over SP and most people act like they wanted the story arc developed in that one to never be mentioned again. But the Craig era presented the SPECTRE and Blofeld characters as the culmination of all his previous films. And Blofeld has been Bond’s arch-nemesis for nearly 60 years. I never wanted to see Craig’s final Bond movie to just dismiss everything and pretend like it didn’t happen.
But the way this was handled was really anti-climatic. Bond plays no part in SPECTRE’s demise. And do we really want the most satisfying on-screen Blofed death to be, by default, in DAF? I sure don’t. (Although I appreciate the “Die Blofeld! Die!” nod to Fleming’s YOLT.)
I feel Christoph Waltz was an exceptional Blofeld. He really needed to be the main villain in the Garden of Death just like from the original YOLT novel.
I could go on and on, but to keep it short I’ll just jump to my final thoughts at the movie’s conclusion. I remember when these movies used to be pure escapism and more fun to watch. And I feel many think it’s no longer acceptable for men to identify with the James Bond character so the Fun Police™ have to step in and tell us what we’re allowed to enjoy in movies, video games and other entertainment. Without going too much off on a tangent I feel like this movie suffers from that more than any other previous Bond.
Everyone’s life sucks these days, but I was looking forward to this premiere. Yet - something is wrong with the ending of a Bond film when I leave the theater more depressed than when I entered. While I admire the courage that the producers had to end the movie the way they did, I’m sure there were other ways to give the series a sense of finality without making you feel like you just attended James Bond’s funeral. Maybe in time my feelings will change about the ending.
That's a good review, @thextractor123 and welcome to the forum - though your arrival is a bit like someone turning up at a church where a funeral is being held in a bid to get to know the deceased!
The scene you describe, where Bond is established as being in utter peril and in overall dread but he walks into a Spectre meeting with a silly seeming novice then walks out just blasting away like you do... sums it up.
The bad jokes - the worst must be the one about how he showed someone Q's wristwatch and it blew their mind. Admittedly not too many of them however.
Someone got flamed a bit for insinuating they know which bits Phoebe Waller-Bridge wrote. I'm not sure we do unless we go on the dark web or something. But one might surmise that the whole Nomi 007 character was made up belatedly and the original Knives Out actress was to be his long-term sidekick in this. After all, Nomi just sort of tags along in that scene and every other. I can see the whole idea of it brings something to the table and made good pre-publicity to be fair but if you took her out, I can't see what she adds to the plot points. I mean, Leiter was the one trying to arrange the Spectre meeting so what is the new 007 doing out there?
Here's a thought - Craig's Bond could have found out that he had a daughter - and it was Madeleine! That he'd banged Mrs White all those years ago. That would be a twist.
Incidentally, does Bond cop off with anyone in this film other than Madeline in the pre-credits? Not sure he does.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Thanks, @Napoleon Plural -- that sounds like me! Enjoy your posts, too.
I initially assumed that Nomi was in the film to provide a sight gag - 'Where's 007?' and a black woman walks in. Shame they pulled the punch on that one.
I can't work out why they brought Blofeld back for one film as a major character and killed him off in the next film. I was hoping that the Craig films went on to have Blofeld and Spectre in at least a few other films. Indeed, I expected the Craig films to go on and "remake" Dr No, From Russia with Love, Goldfinger etc. Such a wasted opportunity.
You ask me for proof she didn’t write those words? 🤣
You have absolutely no idea of one single word she wrote - at all.
You just have your own prejudices, unless you have proof?
I think it was DC that said “ what you think she wrote, she didn’t” 🤷🏻♂️
Evening Gents,
I saw the film this morning in the Imax and upon reflection came out quite stunned or to borrow a lyric, dazed and confused. So this will probably be a bit rambling and more of a stream of conscious than considered review having read previous solid reviews from other members.
Objectively I enjoyed the film but as a Bond fan I am uncertain how I will feel about it in the long run. I never tire of Casino Royale, I think QOS is unfairly derided (but I see its shortcomings), Skyfall I'm not a fan of (whilst I initially enjoyed it and was swept up by the hype, it seems OTT with all the references, feels gimmicky, rips off The Dark Knight, the weak and childish "think on your sins" hacking aaaand they killed Judi Dench!), Spectre was just a bit meh.
I was giggling at some of the jokes and enjoyed seeing some gadgets. I thought the action was largely good such as Matera but often rehashed such as another stairwell fight and the serviceable driving scene in Norway. One thing I loved was the murder of Ash but that shouldn't have come at the cost of Wright's Leiter (I loved his version of Felix from the off so I was saddened to watch him die which I suppose is all the more credit to Wright for his portrayal). I was immediately reminded of FYEO and I liked that but I suppose this highlights another comment made earlier where amongst the fans some references are well received and others less so. Such as me not liking the nods in Skyfall but enjoying one in NTTD (I would argue its far subtler).
I personally wasn't that sold on Harris as MP and Whishaw as Q when first introduced (again not a Skyfall fan) however they acquit themselves well here and I was happy to see them. To the user who made the homosexuality comment, if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything. What was brought to my attention though was the complete lack of chemistry between Craig and Seydoux, I just didn't buy it. I felt there was better chemistry between Bond and Paloma and Bond and Nomi and looking back to Spectre it seems more glaring there now too. I can see Bond sacrificing everything for Vesper but not Madeline.
NTTD and its ending are the logical progression for Craig's Bond. When it began working up to it I could see there really being no way out, no nod or wink and it was a shock and somewhat depressing. Its a bold decision and in many ways I admire it but I don't think it works. The thrill of Bond is not wondering whether he'll make it out alive, it's how he'll make it out alive. I know Craig's tenure has been about adding more grit and realism and adhering closer to the feel of the books but I think the death of Bond is a step too far, for me anyway. I know I'll sound like a broken record but another thing that irked me about Skyfall is the talk about Bond aging and getting old, how he's an analogue man in digital world and other such. The reason I think that and killing Bond doesn't work is because he is a timeless character (in the sense that the films have been rolling on since the 60s, not that he can straddle any era) so surely if you want to keep them going then you have to accept that he'll get into some scrapes but will ultimately survive, have a bit of a break and then start on another mission.
The tying together of all the films whilst it initially held promise was wasted in the Spectre and the "I've been there all along, hiding in the shadows" by the famous author of "All Your Pain", Mr Franz Oberhauser.
I think I need to collect my thoughts and revisit this in the morning lol.
Goodnight
NB. Bond must have had blue balls in NTTD being spurned by Paloma (I am a big fan of de Armas) and no other lovers in sight
I'm always amazed at how much they spend to make movies these days and then how little they often show. Rather than Daniel Craig's 50-foot head projected onto the silver screen for minutes at a time, I'd like to see more of the lair so I get a sense of its weight and scale or the countryside, and not just some dreary, empty tract of road winding through some rainy mountains. And things don't need to shake so much -- the idea that a camera like that is more real only counts if we're trembling all the time.
Fair enough…. My point was only that the changes in dialogue style - to emasculate the character- were a far stretch from the previous Craig films.. acknowledging my hunch is purely speculative.. but reasonable speculation.. in the end.. Waller Bridge is a denizen of the new Hollywood “woke” culture.. as were the slants of these few examples of dialogue which were substantially different from what we’d heard before.. I could be wrong.. but.. I could also be absolutely on point..
regardless.. it was in no way meant to spark debate.. this is a “review thread” no? Reviews are opinions.. I’d reassert that my opinion- based on history of the series under DC’s tenure.. plus also DC stating she’d been brought in to “punch up” the dialogue…. And suddenly the film has some very different style in parts.. that coincidentally echo the woke feel of Fleabag.. (granted i didn’t last through one episode of that )
Id say my hunch is something that could be spot on.. and if not.. eh…. I’m wrong.. and that’s fine too…
in the end…. A Bond film had to bend the knee, even if just in minor nuance, to Hollywood “woke” sensitivity.. it’s just a matter of opinion and observation is all.
Well, let's not get all het up over what part of it Waller-Bridger wrote. We think it's the reverse sexism stuff because we can't see her coming up with major plot points or twists by herself rightly or wrongly. I don't want to come across like Justice minister Dominic Raab and his 'misogny' comments - though he doesn't know what he means, I can't spell it!
Killing Eve is all about a young female assassin with no moral scruples who runs rings around men. She's be a great Bond villain but it's all from her point of view and I admit I missed that, so thought Waller-Bridger would be a great writer.
One main gripe that's occurred to me is the music just isn't that memorable. I suppose if you go with something emotive it might just alienate some of the audience. That Craig Armstrong piece used in Romeo + Juliet, The Space Between Us, I think it's called, that's knockout stuff. There's nothing too distinctive or moving musically in this film save of course the old Barry stuff and while it's nice to see him back, it's something of an unearned emotion. With the last film, Spectre, I really did enjoy some of that Ibiza lounge stuff, it created an atmosphere, a mood. There seems to be none of that here, so the film resembles a bit of Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls, where Williams' score just doesn't evoke anything in contrast to his Temple of Doom score.
Music can do so much to enhance a film, particularly the emotional aspect, if handled well. At no point did I dislike Zimmer's score but bearing in mind the themes of the film, there's no musical cue I'm aware of that does anything here. Along with the theme tune which I still can't hum, there is no big thing going on here musically.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I disagree. I was concerned that this film would have too much of what you are describing, but it didn’t materialize in my opinion. I’ve got some issues with the film, but that is not one of them.
It's a damm good film (with some flaws) until the end. The ending is terrible and I fear a big mistake.
I don't know what they were thinking.
Some other observations I had:
When it comes to the women, Bond did feel a bit neutered. Regarding PWB's overhauling of the script I thought she was brought in to make sure the film treated the Bond women better whilst still allowing Bond to be his womanising self, unlessing I'm missing the fact that he was bereft at the breakdown of his relationship with Madeline so not overly interested in others?
Didn't really buy the joke from Bond about M "being thirsty", pot calling the kettle black from James "Half 00, half Martini" Bond but for me a lot of the other jokes landed well.
@Gymkata you do make a good point about Bond not living out into his golden years, with a gadgetised zimmer frame as he takes down Blofeld in the assisted living home. I think my preference would have been for an ambiguous ending but I still respect their decision to go with his death.
I can understand some of the feelings people have about "Bond going woke". But I also feel some people are layering this whole "He's too PC!" stuff on a little thick.
Personally, I didn't see any real problems with Bond's relationships with women in this film. He had Nomi pegged as a suspicious outsider the moment he saw her on the side of the road. And after his conversation with Felix, he knew there would be other players on the field and she was an obvious candidate. I've heard some people getting upset Bond rode passenger on her scooter. To me that was no different than Connery hitching a ride with Volpe (and getting nervous about her driving fast! 😮). Of course the Bond of old would have slept with Nomi. And maybe the fact that Craig's Bond didn't is a sign of our times. But I don't feel like Bond was emasculated because he decided to recognize a black woman as a fellow professional and leave it at that instead of trying to get her into bed.
As for Paloma: after the endless jokes of Moore seducing women who were clearly too young for him, I'm just fine with a 50+ year old Bond being a little uncomfortable with what he incorrectly perceives as Paloma's sexual advances. And I honestly thought the "Could you turn around, please" line was quite funny.
Yes I had issues with the whole "Bond the family man" aspects of the plot. But not because it was "woke". For me it was just poorly written. I get that it was supposed to be "character development". And, if the writing hadn't been so lazy, it could have added a new and welcome dimension to who he was and how he had grown. But in no universe did I ever imagine Bond dying holding a stuffed animal. It was a silly prop and took something away from the scene, imho. For comparison, I'd say the tone of Wolverine's death in Logan was a great example of how you can successfully kill an indestructable hero in a way that has genuine emotional impact and leaves the audience satisfied (at least in terms of a comic book movie.
For me, the absolute worst example of Bond getting emasculated is still the limo scene in TND. M and Moneypenny take turns mocking Bond's sexual prowess and Brosnan just sits there like a petulant man-child. I haven't seen anything in a Craig film that comes even remotely close to that bit of obnoxiously PC dialog (and that includes Bond literally having his balls beaten 😁).
Cheers all and enjoy your weekend!
I didn’t find the film woke at all. I wasn’t happy with the ending on my first viewing but reconciled that on my second viewing and enjoyed it more.