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@chrisno1@Golrush007 Thank you... and I've also much enjoyed catching up with your own insightful reviews, and the other reviews and comments in this thread.
For folk whose reaction to the film is feeling dispirited by the death of (this) Bond, I do 'get that'. And I guess for anyone feeling sore about it who also values the traditional do-it-for-real ethos of Bond action, Craig-Bond's expiration in a CGI missile attack adds insult to injury: the character might have better merited a send-off in a classic Bond inferno of petrol-fuelled flames plumed with black smoke!
In all seriousness, giving a DVD of any of the Lewis Gilbert Bonds a spin might be a good antidote over the next couple of days, while looking on NTTD - if one prefers - as an entertaining, extended alternate ending to the SP coda of Craig-Bond riding off into the sunset in the DB5 with Madeleine!
Critics and material I don't need. I haven't changed my act in 53 years.
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Let's continue. Bond and Nomi get picked up by a planet on Ørland air base, one of Norway's 1.5 fighter jet bases. I don't know where it was filmed, but Bond's pronounciarion wasn't half bad. A plane/submarine is a return to traditional Bond values, but also not because of the CGI. Safin's island was really good set, a welcome return to villans with large bases in big sets. The villan even has a plan that's threath ending the world, another core tradition for James Bond. But how and why did Safin go from wanting revenge on Blofeld and SPECTRE to wanting to kill large parts of the world's population? This is never explained properly ... or at all. I actually liked Safin as a villan. He's distinctive and creepy. I don't think it was explained how he survived getting shot in the heart by mini-Madeleine. Like many og us I assumes his heart was on the other side, but I don't think it was mentioned at all.
I liked how the writers updated the Garden of Death from YOLT, I've wanted this for years. I actually posted the idea here in AJB of a genetic weapon that can target spesific groups of the population years ago. I can't say it's a bad villan's plot then, can I? What I do dislike is Nomi's one-liner before she kills Waldo (a cartoonish henchman). "You know what time it is? ..... it's time to die!". Most of the dialoge in NTTD is really good, but this is more fitting for Steven Seagal than a Bond movie. The fight in Safin's base is a very well made gun fight, but it's just basically. A big, spectacular stunt would be better.
Now the biggest stunt - Bond's death. If they were to really kill Bond, this is the way to do it. It's for the greater good and he knows he can't safe himself because that means he kills the people around him. But there were other ways to do it. Nomi could sacrifise herself by opening the blast doors. Her motivation? She's infected and if she survives all black people get killed like Waldo wanted. While she opens the blast doors, Bond gets a big boss fight with Safin before he escapes with Madeleine and their daughter. This solution also fixes the problem of all the people who still belive she's "the next James Bond". Another solution is making Bond's death open to interpretation. Is he dead or isn't he? Bond can't be infected if this was the solution.
Bond's death also means we need a new Scooby Gang. We can't have Ralph Fiennes and the rest of them grieving for Bond in NTTD and merrily working alongside the next 007 in Bond26. It's a shame since I liked them and wanted to see them for decades to come. James Bond's death was well done, but was it the right thing to do? I doubt I'll ever decide.
The movie is very well made technically. Colours, cinematography, music etc. was great. The acting too. Madeleine and Blofeld were better characters this time. The action was better than in SPECTRE, but needed more memorable stunts. Especially stunts we haven't seen before in the many trailers. This movie will be debated forever in AJB and elsewhere. I look forward to it.
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Just seen it. I’m giving it 7/10 but still feel a bit disappointed. When I saw Casino Royale I couldn’t wait to see it again. This one I can easily wait for the home release. It’s definitely better than Spectre so that’s a major plus.
I thought Safin was poor but then I think all the DC villains after LeChiffre and Mr White have disappointed. Nomi was ok. Leiter was good while he was there. The big surprise in a good way was Paloma who was the best character in the film in my opinion. Blofeld and Madeline shouldn’t have returned although they were better in this than in Spectre, although not by much.
At times there was too much dialogue like when Bond was on his knees before Safin. The ending was dreadful, just no need for that. M’s poem was poignant though. Can’t remember at the moment but some of the things Bond said seemed a bit strange for the character.
The Mi6 gang was good particularly Q who had some great lines.
Anyone know why English Vesper Lynd was buried in Matera Italy?
Plenty of good things there as well so could have been better but could have been a lot worse as well. The whole Jamaica thing was great and the all the time in the world references quite touching.
Hammersmith riverside looked sublime as it always does.
I waited until the end of the credits and James Bond Will return so the show goes on 👏🏻
Not sure if someone already answered you question about Vesper being buried in Italy but it looks to be a family tomb.
After second viewing the list of names on the tomb door have the family name Saviano. But the name above Vesper’s is “Saviano xxx Lynd”. The xxx was an Italian word I don’t remember.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 28,006Chief of Staff
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Curious who that tool is on the last pic just on the very far right 😡
That depends if you are looking at the picture or outwards from it 😳👀
YNWA 97
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 28,006Chief of Staff
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First of all: it's great to see posts from members who haven't posted much before, perhaps especially new members. 😁
Second: I agree with Barbel that we need a thread or even a sub-forum about where Bond goes next. But if we do that now the members who haven't seen NTTD yet will understand what happend in NTTD. Even if we call it something pretty neutral we'll have to label it "spoilers", and that's a spoiler of sorts itself.
Regarding where the franchise is headed next, I predict that we will get a Nomi 007 series in which MI6 is attempting to deal with an international war in the wake of blowing up the island in NTTD.
It's not an idea I want. But it's what I think will happen.
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I think I’m actually in mourning. I’m devastated. In short, the film was superb. I did a DC Bondathon prior to refresh which served me well but….I think that’s it for me. Bond is dead. I will watch the replays of the past 25, but I don’t think I will ever watch another new Bond again.
Your username is 007Dan…. I think you’ll watch the next one mate!
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Oh dear God, yes please. Just a stand alone mission, no personal stuff. No mother subtext, no unexpected family members, no digging into Bond's past. Just a good villain (if that's not a contradiction in terms), loads of stunts, and some witty lines (ok, and some not so witty) like we used to get. It used to be not too much to ask for.
Please don't tell me times have changed- I know that. Good writing is what's needed here- I suggest Mark Gatiss & Steven Moffat.
Gatis would be superb! Have you read his Lucifer Box novels? A cross between Bond and Sherlock Homes but bisexual.
My reaction is following what is now a familiar arc : fascination and euphoria followed by disappointment and sadness.
I do think that NTTD is brave and remarkable and has much going for it. Eventually Bond was killed by his own overwrought Mythos.
Oh well only another 4 or 5 years to wait...not sure how much I care. The Craig era killed Bond in more than one way.
Hubris
Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence- Ludwig Wittgenstein.
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Folks, sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this, but has anyone identified the song after “ We have all the time in the world” plays in the credits? Is it in the soundtrack?
"We have all the time in the world" is sung by Louis Armstrong and was originally featured in OHMSS 👍
*EDIT* I have just realised you were looking for the song after it... No clue of it yet but I am searching to try find out.
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The problem with doing something as unflinchingly bold as killing off Bond is not the act itself, but the fact the franchise will go on undeterred by the act.
If the next iteration of the series is a total reboot and Bond is alive as normal, then it will render Craig's tenure a strange and ultimately pointless footnote in the series' history.
The emotional impact of No Time to Die will mean absolutely nothing in just a few years, and that itself is tragic.
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SO, as you guys can see, I am new. I class myself as a Bond fan but wouldnt have said fanatic. Up until friday, I wouldve said I enjoy the films.
Having watched NTTD knwoing it was Craigs last Bond, I clearly was not prepared for the ending in the slightest. My head was, and is still messed up.
Being a dad of 2 girls aged 5 and 2 have a lot to play in my emotions I think. I have never seen my wife in the state she was at the end scene. Once the 'insurance' vile was shown by Safin, she knew exactly what was coming but thank god never said anything to me as it didnt trigger at that point the severity of it.
@AgentCJ19 :- your idea of the bunny on the sofa wouldve been my soppy, probably eye-rolling kind of ending I think I was hoping for.
We couldnt cope. We said nothing all the way home. Thats got to say something incredible about the film I think? The sheer emotion its caused is insane. PLEASE DO AN ALTERNATIVE ENDING :) haha.
Unfortunately for me, I just dont know if I want to watch it again like I could many of the others over and over simply because of how painful the end was. Yes I am pathetic. Say your worst :).
Its been good to hear others views on here as I cant talk about or share the experience with many who havent seen it yet :).
I loved the fight scenes, especially with Paloma. She was hilarious and set the tone for what I thought would be a film to add to many others which could be put on as easy watching on a wet day. I just cant see me wanting to. He found out he was a dad for a matter of hours.... christ here we go again FFS.
I need another Bond film asap. Hopefully, Im dead fickle :)
Welcome to the forum AgentFC. I agree 100% with all you say. My experience and feelings were/are the same. You are not alone my friend.
No need to actually show Bond dying. Leave it ambiguous, open to interpretation. And yes, having the bunny on the bed as Matilda goes to her room, having her smile as the James Bond theme kicks in, would have been a perfect ending.
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I don't think the inclusion of Dame Judi counts as evidence of it being a continuation - she was chosen due to her popularity, in all likelihood:
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The Craig era is a total reboot and I never saw it a different way.
Let's put aside the geopolitical evolution of the world since 1962 and the recurring characters like M (classic, Mansfield, Mallory), Blofeld, Felix, Q and Moneypenny.
Just focusing on the movies and ONLY the movies, we know Bond gets his 00 status in CR06. If you pay attention, M refers to September 11 during the briefing in the Bahamas. We can go further with the precise date - July 6 2006 - when Bond traces the Ellipsis signal from his mobile in the surveillance room of the Ocean Club to find out who sent the SMS to Mollaka.
So far, it could work...until FYEO PTS and Tracy's tombstone with the year of death 1969 written on.
Well it's been a few days since I saw the film and I've decided I'm going to see it again this week as there was so much to digest.
I'm trying to think of the positives. The Jamaica scenes were as excellent as I hoped for and brought back memories of Fleming. Forget all the teasers and trailers that followed the early On Set with Bond video below is still my favourite and filled me with hope.
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Jeffrey Wright was good as Felix, Ana de Armas was a revelation as Paloma. The MI6 gang were all good and had some great lines. The short verse read out by M was moving and very sage and as we know a throw back to YOLT. Matera looked beautiful. It was wonderful to see Hammersmith get some screen time in a Bond film.
I think there was just enough to keep me a big Bond fan satisfied and was a massive improvement on Spectre. Any decent Bond film is better than no Bond film in my book. The producers can do what they want with the next one. They can decide if they want to mention this film at all or just ignore it. Let's hope they choose wisely.
"No Time to Die brings Daniel Craig’s tenure as Bond to a disappointing end. The latest 007 instalment is action-packed, but Craig’s Bond swan song is hindered by an unconvincing emotional storyline and an underused ensemble cast."
Hello all. I was very active around these parts during the CR era but have receded into something of a lurker role in recent years (now there’s a sentence). But this film has forced me, like Bond, out of retirement.
This film has had quite an effect on me, and sadly not entirely in a good way. There’s so much to like, and plenty to love. The PTS, Jamaica, Cuba, Paloma, all lovely stuff. Craig’s performance is perhaps better than ever. And I’m surprised to say I loved the daughter storyline. I found it unexpectedly moving. I wish the scriptwriters hadn’t had Madeleine muddy things with the “she’s not yours” line, only to have it revealed that she is by Safin in a throwaway line in his base later. Was the audience meant to be confused? I was confused. But I still loved this new territory for a Bond film.
The third act is shaky. The villain’s plot is undercooked. But my god, the ending. As a child, I used to imagine what a Bond death scene would look like. It was fun to imagine, because it was fantasy - it would never happen. And if it ever DID happen, they had better get it dead right. Alas, they did not.
The moment was unearned. Despite the film’s desperate attempts to tell us what an emotional moment it was through the music and close-ups, it just felt unnecessary. For the biggest surprise in a new Bond film NOT to be the fact that he has a child suggests said new Bond film contains too many surprises. It would have been a subversive enough conclusion for the final scene to involve Bond in some kind of domestic setting with his daughter. This just felt utterly deflating. If you’re going to kill one of the oldest and most iconic characters in history, at least play a sad version of his theme tune, not generic Hans Zimmer/Chris Nolan strings. I’ve seen it twice, and a lingering feeling of coldness has remained. Bond films aren’t supposed to make you feel like that. It’s cast a shadow over the entire film for me, and possibly even the preceding four.
Perhaps it’s being a fan. Perhaps it’s having invested so much into this character from childhood, and falling in love with Craig’s portrayal in CR. I just can’t understand why they got it so wrong here. James Bond will return, and I hope some of my excitement will have returned when he does.
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 28,006Chief of Staff
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You can say it had good Cinematography, good action, some good performances, bold thinking and ideas. But so did Die Another Day.
The constant cruelty and pathetic thuggish violence, the constant plot confusion, The weak charicters of Nomi & Safin, how they treated Bond and Felix, the poor way Bond's daughter was revealed, unnecessary woke detail about Q's boyfriend and Nomi showing off about 007, and the ending with Bond dying RUIN the movie. Just like the invisible car and Ice palace ruin Die Another Day, but on a much worse level. There are no location titles in the movie so we never know where the movie is. Zimmer's score is uninspiring whilst Eilish's song and the lame titles sequence were one of the worst in Bond history. The gunbarrel from Craig was also poor.
Is this a Bond movie you'd like to take your kids to see? So they can watch the good guy dying, people getting kicked in the face and get to learn about homosexuality. No.
After some thought I give it a 1 star out of 5 and I rank it 25/25 in the series.
Don’t mess about, tell us how you really feel!
I suppose, on the plus side, it didn’t leave you in any doubt. In many ways that’s a good thing.
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The film is FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!! as for the ending.
Bond films are individual films, but they are also part of a series, as such you can't make films about a character that is dead.
and they can not for ever more make preqils, as 2021 will become amchent history,as well.
so as Spock would say in Star Trek. The only logical couse of action open to Eon productionsin in the future is to say
that
JAMES BOND DID NOT DIE AT THE END OF NO TIME TO DIE.
Well, that or a reboot, right?
Would that really be such a bad thing? The universe that contained the Craig Bond now must be over and done with. The only option is a reboot and a new continuity, making the new movie the third timeline or series within a series.
I wasn’t angry at Bond’s death but I was disappointed. I thought the character deserved a better end than to die. James Bond is my childhood hero and his indestructibility is a key element of that.
The character takes a ding by killing him off. Like so many, I can appreciate the artistry of what happened - in many ways it is a triumph. I didn’t like it but it was very well done. However, the Bond formula is meant to be pure escapism - I think it’s why so many of us are here.
If our hero pegs it at the end - that’s not much of an escape!
It is a good movie for me - hell of a lot to love about it - but the hit the character takes for me, I really could have lived without.
I’ll be looking forward to the new continuity in the hope that old traditions are observed and we can go back to some good silly fun.
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Well yes, but nobody could argue that DAD, the predecessor to CR is in any way linked to the successor film. Judi’s in both, but there’s no story continuity whatsoever.
I think we’d all agree one actor crosses the story timelines, but I don’t think many would consider that story continuity. Just a happy coincidence.
Comments
I great review @Shady Tree. Thank you!
I wonder, why Brown and Dench have been chosen and not Bernhard Lee?
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Cos he already had one, in TWINE.
@chrisno1 @Golrush007 Thank you... and I've also much enjoyed catching up with your own insightful reviews, and the other reviews and comments in this thread.
For folk whose reaction to the film is feeling dispirited by the death of (this) Bond, I do 'get that'. And I guess for anyone feeling sore about it who also values the traditional do-it-for-real ethos of Bond action, Craig-Bond's expiration in a CGI missile attack adds insult to injury: the character might have better merited a send-off in a classic Bond inferno of petrol-fuelled flames plumed with black smoke!
In all seriousness, giving a DVD of any of the Lewis Gilbert Bonds a spin might be a good antidote over the next couple of days, while looking on NTTD - if one prefers - as an entertaining, extended alternate ending to the SP coda of Craig-Bond riding off into the sunset in the DB5 with Madeleine!
Enjoyed this summary.
Not sure if someone already answered you question about Vesper being buried in Italy but it looks to be a family tomb.
After second viewing the list of names on the tomb door have the family name Saviano. But the name above Vesper’s is “Saviano xxx Lynd”. The xxx was an Italian word I don’t remember.
That depends if you are looking at the picture or outwards from it 😳👀
And what a fine day it was 🍸 even if that bloody advertisement refused to come round again 🙈🤣
Well, it looked very good when we were walking up to it, a Piccadilly screen full of Bond, and all we got was fooking coke 😂
You know I was sure I saw Bernard Lee, now I realise it was a pic DZ posted on social media of his London tour 😁
Regarding where the franchise is headed next, I predict that we will get a Nomi 007 series in which MI6 is attempting to deal with an international war in the wake of blowing up the island in NTTD.
It's not an idea I want. But it's what I think will happen.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
I could say that no matter how you look at it, there is a tool on the very right 🤣🤣
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
Your username is 007Dan…. I think you’ll watch the next one mate!
Gatis would be superb! Have you read his Lucifer Box novels? A cross between Bond and Sherlock Homes but bisexual.
My reaction is following what is now a familiar arc : fascination and euphoria followed by disappointment and sadness.
I do think that NTTD is brave and remarkable and has much going for it. Eventually Bond was killed by his own overwrought Mythos.
Oh well only another 4 or 5 years to wait...not sure how much I care. The Craig era killed Bond in more than one way.
Hubris
"We have all the time in the world" is sung by Louis Armstrong and was originally featured in OHMSS 👍
*EDIT* I have just realised you were looking for the song after it... No clue of it yet but I am searching to try find out.
James Bond is a continuation series, there has always been actor overlap.
there has never been a total reboot.
and oh yes, James Bond cant die!!!!!
Never been a total reboot? In what way is Casino Royale linked to any of the previous movies?
J
Judi Dench
They could have gone with someone like Helen Mirren as M for CR and would have been total reboot.
Welcome to the forum AgentFC. I agree 100% with all you say. My experience and feelings were/are the same. You are not alone my friend.
No need to actually show Bond dying. Leave it ambiguous, open to interpretation. And yes, having the bunny on the bed as Matilda goes to her room, having her smile as the James Bond theme kicks in, would have been a perfect ending.
I don't think the inclusion of Dame Judi counts as evidence of it being a continuation - she was chosen due to her popularity, in all likelihood:
Casino Royale: Why James Bond 21 DIDN'T Recast Judi Dench's M
https://screenrant.com/casino-royale-james-bond-m-not-recast-reason/It's clearly a 'reboot' as it deals with Bond gaining his OO status.
The Craig era is a total reboot and I never saw it a different way.
Let's put aside the geopolitical evolution of the world since 1962 and the recurring characters like M (classic, Mansfield, Mallory), Blofeld, Felix, Q and Moneypenny.
Just focusing on the movies and ONLY the movies, we know Bond gets his 00 status in CR06. If you pay attention, M refers to September 11 during the briefing in the Bahamas. We can go further with the precise date - July 6 2006 - when Bond traces the Ellipsis signal from his mobile in the surveillance room of the Ocean Club to find out who sent the SMS to Mollaka.
So far, it could work...until FYEO PTS and Tracy's tombstone with the year of death 1969 written on.
It simply doesn't match for me.
Well it's been a few days since I saw the film and I've decided I'm going to see it again this week as there was so much to digest.
I'm trying to think of the positives. The Jamaica scenes were as excellent as I hoped for and brought back memories of Fleming. Forget all the teasers and trailers that followed the early On Set with Bond video below is still my favourite and filled me with hope.
Jeffrey Wright was good as Felix, Ana de Armas was a revelation as Paloma. The MI6 gang were all good and had some great lines. The short verse read out by M was moving and very sage and as we know a throw back to YOLT. Matera looked beautiful. It was wonderful to see Hammersmith get some screen time in a Bond film.
I think there was just enough to keep me a big Bond fan satisfied and was a massive improvement on Spectre. Any decent Bond film is better than no Bond film in my book. The producers can do what they want with the next one. They can decide if they want to mention this film at all or just ignore it. Let's hope they choose wisely.
"No Time to Die brings Daniel Craig’s tenure as Bond to a disappointing end. The latest 007 instalment is action-packed, but Craig’s Bond swan song is hindered by an unconvincing emotional storyline and an underused ensemble cast."
https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/reviews/no-time-die-brings-daniel-craigs-tenure-bond-disappointing-end
Hello all. I was very active around these parts during the CR era but have receded into something of a lurker role in recent years (now there’s a sentence). But this film has forced me, like Bond, out of retirement.
This film has had quite an effect on me, and sadly not entirely in a good way. There’s so much to like, and plenty to love. The PTS, Jamaica, Cuba, Paloma, all lovely stuff. Craig’s performance is perhaps better than ever. And I’m surprised to say I loved the daughter storyline. I found it unexpectedly moving. I wish the scriptwriters hadn’t had Madeleine muddy things with the “she’s not yours” line, only to have it revealed that she is by Safin in a throwaway line in his base later. Was the audience meant to be confused? I was confused. But I still loved this new territory for a Bond film.
The third act is shaky. The villain’s plot is undercooked. But my god, the ending. As a child, I used to imagine what a Bond death scene would look like. It was fun to imagine, because it was fantasy - it would never happen. And if it ever DID happen, they had better get it dead right. Alas, they did not.
The moment was unearned. Despite the film’s desperate attempts to tell us what an emotional moment it was through the music and close-ups, it just felt unnecessary. For the biggest surprise in a new Bond film NOT to be the fact that he has a child suggests said new Bond film contains too many surprises. It would have been a subversive enough conclusion for the final scene to involve Bond in some kind of domestic setting with his daughter. This just felt utterly deflating. If you’re going to kill one of the oldest and most iconic characters in history, at least play a sad version of his theme tune, not generic Hans Zimmer/Chris Nolan strings. I’ve seen it twice, and a lingering feeling of coldness has remained. Bond films aren’t supposed to make you feel like that. It’s cast a shadow over the entire film for me, and possibly even the preceding four.
Perhaps it’s being a fan. Perhaps it’s having invested so much into this character from childhood, and falling in love with Craig’s portrayal in CR. I just can’t understand why they got it so wrong here. James Bond will return, and I hope some of my excitement will have returned when he does.
🤣
Don’t mess about, tell us how you really feel!
I suppose, on the plus side, it didn’t leave you in any doubt. In many ways that’s a good thing.
I kind of wish Skyfall was Craig's final film so that his era wouldn't have ended on such a divisive note.
Well, that or a reboot, right?
Would that really be such a bad thing? The universe that contained the Craig Bond now must be over and done with. The only option is a reboot and a new continuity, making the new movie the third timeline or series within a series.
I wasn’t angry at Bond’s death but I was disappointed. I thought the character deserved a better end than to die. James Bond is my childhood hero and his indestructibility is a key element of that.
The character takes a ding by killing him off. Like so many, I can appreciate the artistry of what happened - in many ways it is a triumph. I didn’t like it but it was very well done. However, the Bond formula is meant to be pure escapism - I think it’s why so many of us are here.
If our hero pegs it at the end - that’s not much of an escape!
It is a good movie for me - hell of a lot to love about it - but the hit the character takes for me, I really could have lived without.
I’ll be looking forward to the new continuity in the hope that old traditions are observed and we can go back to some good silly fun.
Well yes, but nobody could argue that DAD, the predecessor to CR is in any way linked to the successor film. Judi’s in both, but there’s no story continuity whatsoever.
I think we’d all agree one actor crosses the story timelines, but I don’t think many would consider that story continuity. Just a happy coincidence.