Broccolli and Wilson
Polar Bear 0007
CanadaPosts: 129MI6 Agent
Deleted
This is where we leave you Mr. Bond. (Pilot, Apollo Airlines)
This discussion has been closed.
Polar Bear 0007
CanadaPosts: 129MI6 Agent
Deleted
Comments
What's so "woke" about it in your opinion?
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Politically correct? Are you talking about the female 00-agent? There was one in Thunderball and TWINE too. Female scriptwriter? Several of Connery's Bonds had a woman among the scriptwriters.
There was ZERO "woke" here. If anything, it was a lesson in the fact often times the best person for the job may still be the old, experienced white guy. Bond saves the world and the ladies take a boat to safety, while his replacement acknowledges his superiority. LOL
And most of the rest of the movie borrows heavily from the themes of OHMSS and YOLT - and the ending is nearly the same as YOLT. Much closer to Fleming's bond then the YOLT movie Bond.
DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.
Far too much to write about. I think anyone watching the movie and is familiar with what Ian Fleming wrote, knows.
The only people here are Bond fans, and there won't be many of us who aren't extremely familiar with Fleming. But no-one's quite understanding what you're talking about. James Bond saves the world in this one.
It would be nice if Polar Bear 0007 could offer some examples. It's hard to discuss the topic without concrete examples, and I assume that's why he started this thread.
Polar Bear 0007 said:
Its clear this was a “woke” inspired pile of nonsense.
Far too much to write about. I think anyone watching the movie and is familiar with what Ian Fleming wrote, knows.
I've watched the movie and am familiar with what Fleming wrote, and I have no idea what you're talking about.
Perhaps you could write a few sentences defining what you mean by this word Woke?
As is, it is a nebulous catch-all that could mean anything the paranoid reader chooses to infer.
I wouldn’t say zero. Craig’s Bond journey is a deconstruction of the toxic White male, culminating in his getting killed by bombs from his own navy from a strike he called in to stop a weapon his boss had developed in secret. Bond’s journey strips him of everything, and he dies in ignominy. People want to see it differently through a combination of wanting to imagine Bond through the traditional lens and because the satire is smart enough to still show Bond in heroic moments. But if anybody actually wins, it’s Blofeld.
He dies too, so that doesn’t make much sense. Yes, Bond saves the world and calls in a strike to stop a weapon which has been stolen from his boss: in what way is that a deconstruction of white males? Were white males not the problem in Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker etc? You want to see it this way but perhaps as I’m yet to see anyone agree it may just be you who thinks that.
And how does Blofeld win? He dies in prison and SPECTRE is destroyed. Let's compare with Bond. He dies too, but he stops the threath to the world, makes sure Madeleine and Mathilde lives, kills Safin and Blofeld. How om earth is Blofeld the winner and Bond the loser?
Bond's journey through this film also gives him everything: he pretty much says so at the end- everything he didn't even realise he needs. He's not 'stripped' of everything and dying in ignominy at all. How can he be in disgrace when we see everyone at MI6 raising a glass to him and Madeline celebrating his memory by proudly telling Mathilde about him? Clearly the total opposite of ignominy. Ah, but obviously I'm wrong because I want to believe the story that I'm being shown.
The only slight satire is of Bond's retirement life: he's living the Bond fan's idea of a cool retirement, doing Fleming things like spearfishing and living on a Jamaican beach- but the inference is that this isn't fulfilling to him and the actual grown-up life of love and family are really what's important. I don't mind that, it's more or less the same lesson he learnt in OHMSS and it's rather beautiful.
The DC Bond sure falls in love quick. How much time did he spend with Vesper and Madeline? Can’t have been more than a couple of weeks in total.
So still no explanation of what he means by 'woke' with regards to this movie, and just a misplaced and amusingly incorrect attack on other forum members instead. Yawn.
Fleming would very much recognize Bond's level of alcohol consumption in NTTD. Craig's Bond has been the closest to the literary Bond in this regard and he sets a new "bar" in the Cuba sequence.
I'll be here all week.
I'm fifty years old and I've read every single Fleming book. I also think Craig's Bond movies is in many ways closer to Fleming than many of the earlier Bond movies, perhaps especially Moore's.
Polar Bear 0007, please stop giving others here things to do to justify their opinions. You started this thread, the onus is on you to justify doing so.
Btw- I'm well, well over 40 and read all the Fleming books in the 1960s.
I think Gassy Man gave a very good explanation of what the movie is. Identity politics is all over this movie. What “list” are you looking for? If you don’t see it, that’s on you.
No, as pointed out by our moderator, you brought it up, it's on you to explain what you mean. if you can't then perhaps there's a reason for that.
I'm not sure who you are quoting when you say "list".
'Identity politics' is way too nebulous a term: what are you talking about specifically? Gassy Man gave a pretty poor explanation in my opinion, which is why a couple of us took issue with what he said. Perhaps he'll respond if he wants to, there's obviously no obligation to.
I didn’t attack anyone. I’ve simply asked what makes this movie “Fleming inspired”? Is this the world and characters Fleming created? Not character names, or a few locations- that’s nonsense.
Again, who are you quoting? The only person who has used the word 'inspired' in this thread so far is yourself. And your attack took the form of insinuation that anyone who disagrees with you is somehow too young or lacking in knowledge to understand what you're saying, which is a pretty weak argument, especially when you're so clearly wrong about that and have been told so many times.
Now do an analysis of Q, M, and Felix. You believe this Felix character is the Fleming Felix?
No, don't be challenging others to back up their statements if you won't do the same.
But as we're talking about Felix, why not show me an Eon film that portrays the close friendly relationship in the books between Bond and Felix better than in this one.
Fair enough. I’ve deleted my comments and apologize if this thread has offended anyone.
With those comments deleted, there's not much point in this thread remaining open.