Hi, sorry that'll be me. I do still have some of the originals left although the prices have gone up (I'm sorry to say) due to the silly amounts they've been going for when resold but I'm still a lot cheaper than those. Please feel free to contact me and we can go from there.
And thanks Asp9mm, a plug always helps.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
edited January 2022
Don’t tell danjaq-off that, or this thread will take another turn. Towards the gutter.
A valiant effort though and if I had to "nit-pick" then the green bit underneath Le Cercle should end above the tail. Plus, as you pointed out, there seems to be quite a bit of the green parts missing on the whole top/bottom. Oh, and the back of the unicorns aren't quite right.
And the pearlescent effect is not quite as "nice" but again, valiant effort and probably the best that they could get done.
Plus the inner raised part is not quite right either or the actual shaped corners.
The £100s don't have the inside raised corner bits quite right but not really had a close look.
But then they are "replicas" so.................I think we can let them off.
They probably intentionally did all of those things but mentioning that the serial numbers are changed due to them being a real cash item is a little daft as the casino itself closed years ago and the disclaimer on the back would have been enough. Although, I wonder if they checked with Les Ambassadeurs and asked for their permission to replicate them?
Fun footnote: anyone holding onto the originals might equally claim them as screen-accurate props from A Hard Day's Night, as that film shot a scene in the actual Le Cercle casino at Les Ambassadeurs.
And Bond fans will of course recognize one of the performers in that scene...
Oh, I tried that but no Beatles fans left it seems............
There is also a £10 and a £50 seen too but blink and you'll miss them. It probably doesn't help that it's in black and white but they are there.
And good old Victor Harrington gets his face in again.
There may well have been some £5s sent in the £35000 they had at the studio but they decided against using them. I'm still wondering why 2 of the £1 jetons are in the scene and it's a pity that the £1000s are hidden so they can't be seen properly (but they are there).
Joe, if you are on the fence thinking about pre-ordering the Le Cercle FE replica plaques, i'd say go for it and also if you are into vintage props give Garin a shout if you haven't already. I'd say IF you have spare, go for both. As stated before it's a nice set for a 100USD for people at State side, a bit more for us in Europe.
Knowing who to trust is Everything in this business.
TIS - "The moment you think you got it figured - you're wrong"
Their were signs posted re: prosecution, guards, and counting back the plaques into storage on Skyfall also (2012) but some of those plaques "walked away" too!
Were they from an open casino too? Mind you, by then, people knew that props would be worth something (as props) but I doubt they did in 1962 and would have been more likely to try to cash them in. I can't imagine Mr Mills would have given them some plus there weren't any in the archives so I'd be surprised if all weren't accounted for before the security guards left.
£5s, £10s and a £50 from what I could see but it really is briefly. I thought that the £1s were seen on roulette too but may have mixed that up with something else (that I can't remember at the moment). The photos that have been put up show the £10 (shape) and maybe the £50 too but I definitely saw one in the film, which would make sense.
And then there's the ones seen in "The man who haunted himself", they weren't in the ones I found but I believe they were found a while ago (the small dark blue 5/- one and others from the same set).
I assume the new ones haven't replicated that authentic smell of the originals...which I have come to love and is forever entwined with *that* "scent" of a casino at 3am in my mind - making them extra special.
No comment on the new ones which look perfectly serviceable - especially compared to some prop replicas - but I would say that the "obsolete materials", original serial numbers, design quirks all give the originals a charm and fascination that really brings me joy on a regular basis.
Oh, they definitely won't be able to replicate the smell!!
And I totally agree about the replicas, also sort of validates the originals in a weird way I suppose.
Glad you are still happy with yours too. I've had 1 person who bought a set recently tell me how disappointed he is now that the replicas have been released and probably wouldn't have bought the originals if he'd known they were being made. Hopefully there are no others that feel that way. Personally, I don't quite understand his thinking but each to their own although it's a pity the "shine" has been taken off the lovely set he got. Hopefully he'll change his mind and keep hold of them as it really was/is a gorgeous set.
The release of the replicas is what finally pushed me to contact Garin after 2+ years of umming and arring. I had been following the threads and reading the history of the discovery and the background stories. Dr. No is a great film and a piece of cinema and Bond history, and casinos are inextricably connected to Bond lore right from the start. The replicas may be fresher and brighter than the originals, but I would always prefer an original to a replica, and thanks to Garin, one will be winging its way to me shortly!
I can only echo what everyone else has said about how great it is to deal with Garin. It's been an absolute pleasure and he feels like a friend even thought I've only 'known' him for a couple of days.
"Safety motion picture film (so called because it is not flammable like nitrate base film) was almost always made of cellulose acetate plastic. A key issue in preserving this type of film is controlling the form of decay known as "vinegar syndrome." More properly referred to as acetate film base degradation, vinegar syndrome is a very similar problem to nitrate base deterioration. Its causes are inherent in the chemical nature of the plastic and its progress very much depends on storage conditions.
"The symptoms of vinegar syndrome are a pungent vinegar smell (hence the name), followed eventually by shrinkage, embrittlement, and buckling of the gelatin emulsion. Storage in warm and humid conditions greatly accelerates the onset of decay. Once it begins in earnest, the remaining life of the film is short because the process speeds up as it goes along. Early diagnosis and cold, moderately dry storage are the most effective defenses."
Thanks for that, I did ask BetG about the chemical composition and shelf life but they declined to answer. Probably a trade secret but I didn't press it as they'd been good enough to confirm amounts and dates made of the plaques/jetons. I know that it has changed over the years as the later ones smell "sweeter" and are in better condition (in the main). Considering they were all kept in open, plastic boxes and in a barn for 27 years or so, I'm still amazed any survived. Many boxes had liquid at the bottom so that there were great and nasty ones in the same boxes. I always recommend that they are kept away from heat, direct light, damp etc (like most older collectables) and as far as I can tell, none have changed since being with me, due to a better environment. Some people think that using a car polish (or something similar) may help preserve them for longer (and also makes them look a bit better) which I haven't tried myself but what do you think?
Have anyone's deteriorated (any more) at all since they got them? I know that one of the buyers is actually building a climate controlled room especially for them as they are part of a "museum showpiece" but most others have framed them and (as far as I know) there haven't been any issues so far. I'm pretty sure people would let me know if there was so I really hope not. Everything plastic/acrylic has a life span, I assume, especially with items that are 60 odd years old so personally I'm not worried, I hope others feel the same. I've put on my listings about the deterioration since the beginning but thanks, I can now give it a name instead of a long drawn out waffle that I can be prone to do. I always said they smelt "vinegary" so I was close.................
Would I be right in assuming that as film is much thinner and probably more volatile that the plaques have a much better chance of surviving longer due to their thickness? I don't know exactly what acrylic/plastic composition they are but the smell makes sense although the £500s are by far the worst from what I've smelt. I'm under the impression that (as long as I am mindful how I store them) they'll outlast me and many others.
Sorry, I can't remember, did you polish them with anything?
I'm probably going to get in touch with BetG and see if they can shed any light on the subject as I've had a "look around" to see what I can find out and it's over my head, acrylic, polymers, plastics etc so hopefully I'll find out exactly what they are made of (chemical composition I hope).
Doh, of course, sorry. Mad moment. That makes much more sense.
Considering we washed most of them at the beginning (very quickly and dried even quicker) due to a salty type of crud on many (and a lot of "dye" mainly on the chips)..............Well, wiped would be a better way of putting it but it needed to be done. The chips (and some jetons/plaques) had to be scrubbed (with a toothbrush) but as they seemed quite robust, it didn't cause a problem although a couple have sort of "peeled" at the edge but only a couple.
Comments
https://www.ajb007.co.uk/profile/DrNoPlaques
Hi, sorry that'll be me. I do still have some of the originals left although the prices have gone up (I'm sorry to say) due to the silly amounts they've been going for when resold but I'm still a lot cheaper than those. Please feel free to contact me and we can go from there.
And thanks Asp9mm, a plug always helps.
Don’t tell danjaq-off that, or this thread will take another turn. Towards the gutter.
I think I'm getting the idea so shhhhh.
Especially in that simple shape. No wonder they've still got stock!
Some variation in the paint scheme between the originals and the replicas (note the little green/not green sprigs dead center, above and below the 5)
.
A valiant effort though and if I had to "nit-pick" then the green bit underneath Le Cercle should end above the tail. Plus, as you pointed out, there seems to be quite a bit of the green parts missing on the whole top/bottom. Oh, and the back of the unicorns aren't quite right.
And the pearlescent effect is not quite as "nice" but again, valiant effort and probably the best that they could get done.
Plus the inner raised part is not quite right either or the actual shaped corners.
The £100s don't have the inside raised corner bits quite right but not really had a close look.
But then they are "replicas" so.................I think we can let them off.
They probably intentionally did all of those things but mentioning that the serial numbers are changed due to them being a real cash item is a little daft as the casino itself closed years ago and the disclaimer on the back would have been enough. Although, I wonder if they checked with Les Ambassadeurs and asked for their permission to replicate them?
Hope all is good, have fun.
Fun footnote: anyone holding onto the originals might equally claim them as screen-accurate props from A Hard Day's Night, as that film shot a scene in the actual Le Cercle casino at Les Ambassadeurs.
And Bond fans will of course recognize one of the performers in that scene...
Oh, I tried that but no Beatles fans left it seems............
There is also a £10 and a £50 seen too but blink and you'll miss them. It probably doesn't help that it's in black and white but they are there.
And good old Victor Harrington gets his face in again.
There may well have been some £5s sent in the £35000 they had at the studio but they decided against using them. I'm still wondering why 2 of the £1 jetons are in the scene and it's a pity that the £1000s are hidden so they can't be seen properly (but they are there).
Joe, if you are on the fence thinking about pre-ordering the Le Cercle FE replica plaques, i'd say go for it and also if you are into vintage props give Garin a shout if you haven't already. I'd say IF you have spare, go for both. As stated before it's a nice set for a 100USD for people at State side, a bit more for us in Europe.
TIS - "The moment you think you got it figured - you're wrong"
Formerly known as Teppo
Or do a little mix and match, get the replica set and then a £10 (plus the £1 jeton) from me..................
Their were signs posted re: prosecution, guards, and counting back the plaques into storage on Skyfall also (2012) but some of those plaques "walked away" too!
Were they from an open casino too? Mind you, by then, people knew that props would be worth something (as props) but I doubt they did in 1962 and would have been more likely to try to cash them in. I can't imagine Mr Mills would have given them some plus there weren't any in the archives so I'd be surprised if all weren't accounted for before the security guards left.
Hope all is well, Matt, take care.
Did you mean a £10 and £5's or have you seen a £50 in AHDN?
£5s, £10s and a £50 from what I could see but it really is briefly. I thought that the £1s were seen on roulette too but may have mixed that up with something else (that I can't remember at the moment). The photos that have been put up show the £10 (shape) and maybe the £50 too but I definitely saw one in the film, which would make sense.
And then there's the ones seen in "The man who haunted himself", they weren't in the ones I found but I believe they were found a while ago (the small dark blue 5/- one and others from the same set).
I assume the new ones haven't replicated that authentic smell of the originals...which I have come to love and is forever entwined with *that* "scent" of a casino at 3am in my mind - making them extra special.
No comment on the new ones which look perfectly serviceable - especially compared to some prop replicas - but I would say that the "obsolete materials", original serial numbers, design quirks all give the originals a charm and fascination that really brings me joy on a regular basis.
Oh, they definitely won't be able to replicate the smell!!
And I totally agree about the replicas, also sort of validates the originals in a weird way I suppose.
Glad you are still happy with yours too. I've had 1 person who bought a set recently tell me how disappointed he is now that the replicas have been released and probably wouldn't have bought the originals if he'd known they were being made. Hopefully there are no others that feel that way. Personally, I don't quite understand his thinking but each to their own although it's a pity the "shine" has been taken off the lovely set he got. Hopefully he'll change his mind and keep hold of them as it really was/is a gorgeous set.
The release of the replicas is what finally pushed me to contact Garin after 2+ years of umming and arring. I had been following the threads and reading the history of the discovery and the background stories. Dr. No is a great film and a piece of cinema and Bond history, and casinos are inextricably connected to Bond lore right from the start. The replicas may be fresher and brighter than the originals, but I would always prefer an original to a replica, and thanks to Garin, one will be winging its way to me shortly!
Glad I could help and it will indeed be on its way soon. Thank you for giving another one a good home.
There have been 3 or 4 people who have also recently contacted me about them although you are the only one who has "followed through" so far.
Thanks again, take care and we will speak again soon.
I can only echo what everyone else has said about how great it is to deal with Garin. It's been an absolute pleasure and he feels like a friend even thought I've only 'known' him for a couple of days.
Point him toward some of the auction prices these originals were fetching last year; maybe he'll rethink his misfortune.
And I sure hope casinos didn't smell like these plaques! That's the pungent smell of vinegar syndrome, which collectors of 35mm and 16mm films know well - https://www.filmpreservation.org/preservation-basics/vinegar-syndrome
"Safety motion picture film (so called because it is not flammable like nitrate base film) was almost always made of cellulose acetate plastic. A key issue in preserving this type of film is controlling the form of decay known as "vinegar syndrome." More properly referred to as acetate film base degradation, vinegar syndrome is a very similar problem to nitrate base deterioration. Its causes are inherent in the chemical nature of the plastic and its progress very much depends on storage conditions.
"The symptoms of vinegar syndrome are a pungent vinegar smell (hence the name), followed eventually by shrinkage, embrittlement, and buckling of the gelatin emulsion. Storage in warm and humid conditions greatly accelerates the onset of decay. Once it begins in earnest, the remaining life of the film is short because the process speeds up as it goes along. Early diagnosis and cold, moderately dry storage are the most effective defenses."
Thanks for that, I did ask BetG about the chemical composition and shelf life but they declined to answer. Probably a trade secret but I didn't press it as they'd been good enough to confirm amounts and dates made of the plaques/jetons. I know that it has changed over the years as the later ones smell "sweeter" and are in better condition (in the main). Considering they were all kept in open, plastic boxes and in a barn for 27 years or so, I'm still amazed any survived. Many boxes had liquid at the bottom so that there were great and nasty ones in the same boxes. I always recommend that they are kept away from heat, direct light, damp etc (like most older collectables) and as far as I can tell, none have changed since being with me, due to a better environment. Some people think that using a car polish (or something similar) may help preserve them for longer (and also makes them look a bit better) which I haven't tried myself but what do you think?
Have anyone's deteriorated (any more) at all since they got them? I know that one of the buyers is actually building a climate controlled room especially for them as they are part of a "museum showpiece" but most others have framed them and (as far as I know) there haven't been any issues so far. I'm pretty sure people would let me know if there was so I really hope not. Everything plastic/acrylic has a life span, I assume, especially with items that are 60 odd years old so personally I'm not worried, I hope others feel the same. I've put on my listings about the deterioration since the beginning but thanks, I can now give it a name instead of a long drawn out waffle that I can be prone to do. I always said they smelt "vinegary" so I was close.................
Would I be right in assuming that as film is much thinner and probably more volatile that the plaques have a much better chance of surviving longer due to their thickness? I don't know exactly what acrylic/plastic composition they are but the smell makes sense although the £500s are by far the worst from what I've smelt. I'm under the impression that (as long as I am mindful how I store them) they'll outlast me and many others.
Yeah, they'll still be in one piece once we're dead 😂
Film being thinner means it shrinks and warps, where maybe these plaques have bent.
The smell on my plaques has calmed down considerably in the two years I've had them.
Sorry, I can't remember, did you polish them with anything?
I'm probably going to get in touch with BetG and see if they can shed any light on the subject as I've had a "look around" to see what I can find out and it's over my head, acrylic, polymers, plastics etc so hopefully I'll find out exactly what they are made of (chemical composition I hope).
Have fun.
Really? I've never disdained any prop for which there was a replica.
Plaque A: Issued 2022 to honor Dr. No
Plaque B: May have been held by Sean Connery while filming Dr. No
"Really? I've never disdained any prop for which there was a replica."
Sorry, but I must be missing something as I never said you did, Matt. Hope you are keeping well.
Doh, thanks HMHH (below).
I think Matt means he can't understand that particular customer's reaction. I concur.
To answer your question, I haven't polished mine. I accidentally got a drop of water on one and it did not react well to it...
Doh, of course, sorry. Mad moment. That makes much more sense.
Considering we washed most of them at the beginning (very quickly and dried even quicker) due to a salty type of crud on many (and a lot of "dye" mainly on the chips)..............Well, wiped would be a better way of putting it but it needed to be done. The chips (and some jetons/plaques) had to be scrubbed (with a toothbrush) but as they seemed quite robust, it didn't cause a problem although a couple have sort of "peeled" at the edge but only a couple.
Mine have deteriorated more since I got them--they have melted into replicas in a bespoke box with pseudo-information on it. :)
Don't you just hate it when that happens? 😁