AVTAK may not be the best, and admittedly appears towards the bottom of my 25, but it's comfort Bond. Bank Holiday Monday Bond. Has a nice summer feel. Love the music. Christopher Walken is great and Roger is fun in all his Bond films.
Summery is a good description, yes. For some reason the scene that always sticks in the mind for me is the garden party at the chateau: I'd just like to be there- it looks lovely! 😁
Gymkata said:
Tanya Roberts and Patrick Bauchau are both uniformly terrible in the film. I've seen Bauchau be decent in other films so I'm not sure what was going on here.
The San Francisco fire chase scene with the incompetent cops. It's just terribly conceived and executed and it sinks the entire film by a complete star rating for me.
I think Bauchau is way worse than Roberts even, to be honest- I have no idea what's going on there! The bizarre bit where he meets 'St. John Smythe' at the gate for the first time and leaves a weird pause in his dialogue big enough to drive a Rolls Royce through... ?! But the rubbish bits are some of the things I love it most for; I find it all very endearing!
And yes, the fire engine chase is pretty poor, but the scene I really don't get is the 'fight' with the baboons in Stacey's house: how did that get put in the script- there's no concept there! 😂 The fight in the chip warehouse is at least a fight in a chip warehouse with a conveyor belt and robots and things (even if it's pretty poor)- written down it looks like there are things you could do with that when you get on set and the stunt guys can work some business out. But a fight in an empty house...
Still, as I say, I love all those flaws! It never bores me, it just charms me.
It's all subjective; I guess we should try to not feel upset by others' reactions to things, nor I'm sure would any of us aim to try and upset anyone else with our thoughts.
My own personal feeling on it is that there hasn't been a Bond movie yet which is an actual bad movie. Some are better than others, but it's been a run of 25 good films I'd say, so it's all relative for me.
You are absolutely right on that. While I may dislike a few Bond films, compared to many many many more non-Bond films, even those are vibrant canvases of art.
I agree. The only thing I liked was the fight scene in the train, which for once showed Craig's Bond as really having to fight his way out of it, rather than as usual finding his opponents easy to dispatch.
AVTAK had the makings' of a good film but was most definitely let down by Tanya Roberts and the fire brigade scene. In all honesty it was also let down by Sir Roger. He was far too old by that stage.
I think Casino Royale is awful. I don't get why it's at the top of most lists. Casino Royale is terribly paced with boring action sequences. The romance is unbelievable, with Bond's love for Vesper resembling a schoolboy's love for his teacher. Daniel Craig is completely miscast in a film written for a much younger actor. It's frustrating how Bond fails at everything except capturing Mr White.
I think Moonraker is a masterpiece and doesn't deserve to always be at the bottom. It's one of the most exciting films of the series. Dr Goodhead is one of the best Bond girls for how she is more capable than Bond is an serves the story so well.
Some classic production design and music aside, this is a yawningly paced film. Connery gives his worst performance as Bond, Donald Pleasance is good but underutilised (his failure to return in OHMSS means this version of Blofeld doesn't get a satisfactory rematch against Bond), and the secondary villains Osato and Helga Brandt are fairly thinly drawn and dull. This film's iconic imagery (volcano base, Blofeld and his cat) ensures its legacy far more than its actual quality.
Underrated: Tomorrow Never Dies.
Criticised by some as boring and lacking substance, Tomorrow Never Dies is a slyly satirical film with energetic action sequences (the motorbike chase, the BMW chase), an interesting villain concept in Elliot Carver, and a capable and memorable Bond girl in Wai Lin. It also has one of the best climaxes in the series in terms of sheer action.
overrated - Goldfinger, absolutely...iconic moments in an otherwise somewhat boring film imo.....
underrated - License to Kill ...it had the misfortune of being released alongside Tim Burton's Batman....Dalton's Bond here is the definition of a cool killer....
Thunderbird 2East of Cardiff, Wales.Posts: 2,818MI6 Agent
Overated... VERY Overated!
Spectre. This film just annoyed me from start to finish. So much wasted potential. Drawn and obvious exposition, arty farty ideas and nonsense concepts boiled together to rehash and stir events from QoS, SF and even piecemeal references to CR-06. All for nothing.
It all seems so unrefined, unevenly paced and poorly thought out. It could have been a fresh start after Skyfall neatly ended the threads previously.
What good points it has are weak and wasted. Dr Swann is a facinating character, but totally underused. Mr Hinx is a traditional Bond baddie ala Oddjob or Jaws, but he is appearance is sparse and removed from the story far too soon. Dave Bautista is powerful, both in character and physicality, but we are deprived of any cool character traits. Even his assaniantion method is only alluded to once.
The Blofeld mess is a sorry state of affairs,
and cliched beyond belief. The ham fisted splurge from Quantum into Spectre as an organisation is both clumsy and annoyingly predictable. Far better to make Quantum a real media savvy menace as QoS alluded to. 'We have people everywhere.' Instead we are led to think Spectre has no-ones all grouped in one place like chickens in a hen house! Been done far better back in the early Connery era.
A lackluster film from a director who continues being all scenic and theatrically symbolic, but in a light superficial way. Of course the critics love that kind off codswallop. Great actors, wasted. Only NTTD was worse and it got the rightious kicking it deserved! How this car crash of a film was considered aclaimed is beyond me. It was a mess that allowed for more.
Middling.... but I like it.
DAF... Diamonds was panned by critics and a lot of the audience (Bond diehards and the general public alike) gave it a bit of a 'meh' over the years, and I have issues with some bits of it myself... but it is still a decent Bond romp!
I say that as in spite of Tiffany's deminishing IQ over the film, Metz being an uptight patsy and Blofeld being a camp and cowardly shadow of himself, the actors put a lot of playful fun into what they are doing.
The best examples of this though are Bruce Glover and Putter 'Put-Put' Smith as Wint and Kidd. Their homoerotic bon homie as a working couple is astonishingly direct for the early seventies and its not overplayed or blatent. At moments very funny. 'Bitten by the bug!' or 'If God had wanted man to fly...' Kidd's interest in Tiffany on thr plane - manipulation to spark pained jealously in Wint is very on point. They also have a certain 'overcompensating' approach to Bond himself. Note their body language around him at the Slumber facility.
The film has obvious weak points, a serious lack of globe trotting, mafnified by so much time in Arizona. The dune buggy/lunar buggy and the tri-bikes with their overinflated wheels are just silly and the Ba-aha Oil / Gas rig is notably underwhelming, with painfully weak explosion effects. Comparrisons to YOLT with Little Nellie were inevitable. But even so there IS deliciously purile entertainent and a sense of fun in these scenes too.
A guilty pleasure? Oh Yes. One I enjoy every time.
Underrated... my fault! 😁
DAD. When It was released at the cinema in 2002 this film confused me, as it was trying so hard to be realistic dramatic and serious, then after Bond goes to Iceland takea a left turn into Moonraker Sci Fi on an almost surreal level, with a cringeworthy 'nostalgia' Q scene between the two.
A friend simply said when I complained at the time "First half Connery, Second half Moore, all played by Brozzer."
As is often the case, he was absolutrly right. The fact the actors all stay perfectly true to the course of their characters, simply adds to the speed bump effect, but once you recognise it, it becomes a rollicking good film!
Madonna's pointless cameo and the DAF repeat of the laser macguffin in orbit are small prices to pay for a catchy theme song and a damned good Bond Baddie Blow up weapon that gives us both 'and the plot went BOOM!' along with 'Its a miniature!' motifs and in the same scenes. The Ice Palace too is up there with Stromberg's Atlantis and Drax's Space station. The CGI waveriding is awful, but a small scene in otherwise entertaining action sequences. One to revisit, that has warmed up entertainment value. especially in the shadow of the'Woe is me' Craig era to come.
This is Thunderbird 2, how can I be of assistance?
Comments
Agree with that.
AVTAK may not be the best, and admittedly appears towards the bottom of my 25, but it's comfort Bond. Bank Holiday Monday Bond. Has a nice summer feel. Love the music. Christopher Walken is great and Roger is fun in all his Bond films.
Summery is a good description, yes. For some reason the scene that always sticks in the mind for me is the garden party at the chateau: I'd just like to be there- it looks lovely! 😁
Gymkata said:
Tanya Roberts and Patrick Bauchau are both uniformly terrible in the film. I've seen Bauchau be decent in other films so I'm not sure what was going on here.
The San Francisco fire chase scene with the incompetent cops. It's just terribly conceived and executed and it sinks the entire film by a complete star rating for me.
I think Bauchau is way worse than Roberts even, to be honest- I have no idea what's going on there! The bizarre bit where he meets 'St. John Smythe' at the gate for the first time and leaves a weird pause in his dialogue big enough to drive a Rolls Royce through... ?! But the rubbish bits are some of the things I love it most for; I find it all very endearing!
And yes, the fire engine chase is pretty poor, but the scene I really don't get is the 'fight' with the baboons in Stacey's house: how did that get put in the script- there's no concept there! 😂 The fight in the chip warehouse is at least a fight in a chip warehouse with a conveyor belt and robots and things (even if it's pretty poor)- written down it looks like there are things you could do with that when you get on set and the stunt guys can work some business out. But a fight in an empty house...
Still, as I say, I love all those flaws! It never bores me, it just charms me.
Yeah I almost feel like you can see Roger starting to think "what's he doing...?" 🤣
IMO, AVTAK is not underrated at all, it is one of the worst in the series and for me is always in a bottom three. That'll upset some [see above] but there you go. For more on my take: https://www.ajb007.co.uk/discussion/49422/moore-and-more-in-depth-critiques#latest
It's all subjective; I guess we should try to not feel upset by others' reactions to things, nor I'm sure would any of us aim to try and upset anyone else with our thoughts.
My own personal feeling on it is that there hasn't been a Bond movie yet which is an actual bad movie. Some are better than others, but it's been a run of 25 good films I'd say, so it's all relative for me.
Hey! Wrong thread!
You are absolutely right on that. While I may dislike a few Bond films, compared to many many many more non-Bond films, even those are vibrant canvases of art.
I agree. The only thing I liked was the fight scene in the train, which for once showed Craig's Bond as really having to fight his way out of it, rather than as usual finding his opponents easy to dispatch.
AVTAK had the makings' of a good film but was most definitely let down by Tanya Roberts and the fire brigade scene. In all honesty it was also let down by Sir Roger. He was far too old by that stage.
These are also my picks.
I think Casino Royale is awful. I don't get why it's at the top of most lists. Casino Royale is terribly paced with boring action sequences. The romance is unbelievable, with Bond's love for Vesper resembling a schoolboy's love for his teacher. Daniel Craig is completely miscast in a film written for a much younger actor. It's frustrating how Bond fails at everything except capturing Mr White.
I think Moonraker is a masterpiece and doesn't deserve to always be at the bottom. It's one of the most exciting films of the series. Dr Goodhead is one of the best Bond girls for how she is more capable than Bond is an serves the story so well.
Overrated: You Only Live Twice.
Some classic production design and music aside, this is a yawningly paced film. Connery gives his worst performance as Bond, Donald Pleasance is good but underutilised (his failure to return in OHMSS means this version of Blofeld doesn't get a satisfactory rematch against Bond), and the secondary villains Osato and Helga Brandt are fairly thinly drawn and dull. This film's iconic imagery (volcano base, Blofeld and his cat) ensures its legacy far more than its actual quality.
Underrated: Tomorrow Never Dies.
Criticised by some as boring and lacking substance, Tomorrow Never Dies is a slyly satirical film with energetic action sequences (the motorbike chase, the BMW chase), an interesting villain concept in Elliot Carver, and a capable and memorable Bond girl in Wai Lin. It also has one of the best climaxes in the series in terms of sheer action.
"The spectre of defeat..."
overrated - Goldfinger, absolutely...iconic moments in an otherwise somewhat boring film imo.....
underrated - License to Kill ...it had the misfortune of being released alongside Tim Burton's Batman....Dalton's Bond here is the definition of a cool killer....
Overated... VERY Overated!
Spectre. This film just annoyed me from start to finish. So much wasted potential. Drawn and obvious exposition, arty farty ideas and nonsense concepts boiled together to rehash and stir events from QoS, SF and even piecemeal references to CR-06. All for nothing.
It all seems so unrefined, unevenly paced and poorly thought out. It could have been a fresh start after Skyfall neatly ended the threads previously.
What good points it has are weak and wasted. Dr Swann is a facinating character, but totally underused. Mr Hinx is a traditional Bond baddie ala Oddjob or Jaws, but he is appearance is sparse and removed from the story far too soon. Dave Bautista is powerful, both in character and physicality, but we are deprived of any cool character traits. Even his assaniantion method is only alluded to once.
The Blofeld mess is a sorry state of affairs,
and cliched beyond belief. The ham fisted splurge from Quantum into Spectre as an organisation is both clumsy and annoyingly predictable. Far better to make Quantum a real media savvy menace as QoS alluded to. 'We have people everywhere.' Instead we are led to think Spectre has no-ones all grouped in one place like chickens in a hen house! Been done far better back in the early Connery era.
A lackluster film from a director who continues being all scenic and theatrically symbolic, but in a light superficial way. Of course the critics love that kind off codswallop. Great actors, wasted. Only NTTD was worse and it got the rightious kicking it deserved! How this car crash of a film was considered aclaimed is beyond me. It was a mess that allowed for more.
Middling.... but I like it.
DAF... Diamonds was panned by critics and a lot of the audience (Bond diehards and the general public alike) gave it a bit of a 'meh' over the years, and I have issues with some bits of it myself... but it is still a decent Bond romp!
I say that as in spite of Tiffany's deminishing IQ over the film, Metz being an uptight patsy and Blofeld being a camp and cowardly shadow of himself, the actors put a lot of playful fun into what they are doing.
The best examples of this though are Bruce Glover and Putter 'Put-Put' Smith as Wint and Kidd. Their homoerotic bon homie as a working couple is astonishingly direct for the early seventies and its not overplayed or blatent. At moments very funny. 'Bitten by the bug!' or 'If God had wanted man to fly...' Kidd's interest in Tiffany on thr plane - manipulation to spark pained jealously in Wint is very on point. They also have a certain 'overcompensating' approach to Bond himself. Note their body language around him at the Slumber facility.
The film has obvious weak points, a serious lack of globe trotting, mafnified by so much time in Arizona. The dune buggy/lunar buggy and the tri-bikes with their overinflated wheels are just silly and the Ba-aha Oil / Gas rig is notably underwhelming, with painfully weak explosion effects. Comparrisons to YOLT with Little Nellie were inevitable. But even so there IS deliciously purile entertainent and a sense of fun in these scenes too.
A guilty pleasure? Oh Yes. One I enjoy every time.
Underrated... my fault! 😁
DAD. When It was released at the cinema in 2002 this film confused me, as it was trying so hard to be realistic dramatic and serious, then after Bond goes to Iceland takea a left turn into Moonraker Sci Fi on an almost surreal level, with a cringeworthy 'nostalgia' Q scene between the two.
A friend simply said when I complained at the time "First half Connery, Second half Moore, all played by Brozzer."
As is often the case, he was absolutrly right. The fact the actors all stay perfectly true to the course of their characters, simply adds to the speed bump effect, but once you recognise it, it becomes a rollicking good film!
Madonna's pointless cameo and the DAF repeat of the laser macguffin in orbit are small prices to pay for a catchy theme song and a damned good Bond Baddie Blow up weapon that gives us both 'and the plot went BOOM!' along with 'Its a miniature!' motifs and in the same scenes. The Ice Palace too is up there with Stromberg's Atlantis and Drax's Space station. The CGI waveriding is awful, but a small scene in otherwise entertaining action sequences. One to revisit, that has warmed up entertainment value. especially in the shadow of the'Woe is me' Craig era to come.