SPECTRE
Dovy
Posts: 206MI6 Agent
I have many more questions for Spectre than for other films. So I will number all of them, and look forward to insights from participants.
1) Starting from the beginning I don't understand exactly what is happening. How did Bond first get involved following the Italians at the very start, and then getting into the chase and fight in the helicopter?
2) How did the producers manage the amazing helicopter scene in Mexico, over the masses of people on the ground, etc.?
3) If the new M was suspending Bond for his rogue action in Mexico, how did he get involved with Tanner, Q, and Moneypenny in efforts explicitly prohibited to him? Unless the new leader of Intelligence, C/Max had reversed M's decision?
4) Why did the British government approve the reorganization of British intelligence unifying MI5 and MI6, which would be like unifying the FBI and CIA (before we found out that C/Max was working for Blofeld)?
5) If Bond has that tracking chip via "Smart Blood" in him the whole time, why wasn't MI6 stopping him very easily, since they knew where he was all the time? What was the deceased M's personal reason to make a video telling Bond to kill Sciarra?
6) How is it possible no one in the entire western or even Russian intelligence departments knew anything about Spectre?
7) Isn't the whole idea of Blofeld setting up the gigantic organization of Spectre to punish Bond more than ridiculous?
8) How did Bond abscond the car given over to the newest 009 out of MI6 headquarters?
9) When Bond went by plane to find Swann in the mountains it looks like he's in a passenger seat, but when he leaves suddenly he's flying the plane. How did he and Swann arrange travel to Tangiers and all the new clothes?
10) There are always cases of changes of clothes, access to lots of money. How does this happen?
11) I always wonder how Bond's enemies miraculously know his location faster and easier than MI6. Whether it's Jaws or Hinx, or whoever (both of course show up on trains)?
Comments
1) We don't know at the start, but later we see a video message from the late M telling Bond to kill Sciarra.
7) A ridiculous idea in a James Bond film? How can that be?
10) Showing these details wouldn't be interesting and would slow the film down.
Another set of questions:
1. Why Hinx wanted to kill both Blofeld and Madeleine in the train, If Blofeld was expecting the both of them to come (alive)? What was that attack for? Had Hinx gone rogue? Making a revenge? For what?
2. Same in the train fight, where's all of the people in the train once the train fight between Bond and Hinx began? And a plus question, why did they suddenly went to the cargo train, in the middle of the fight?
3. Where's the other 00 agents and other MI6 staffs when that boat chase in the climax happened, did they know what's happening in the MI6? Does it compromised their missions abroad? Why it's seemed only Bond was affected by the issue regarding SPECTRE and the Nine Eyes, when in actual plot, the whole British Intelligence was at stake or compromised? It would be nice if all of the 00 agents were taking SPECTRE down instead of just Bond alone, right? Because it's the whole MI6 that's in hostage here.
4. Does the MI5 also knows this issue?
5. How did Max Denbigh holds such a high position like that in MI6 without even knowing his background? There's should be one who's looking at his background.
6. And did Blofeld just hired Max Denbigh to be a mole, or he's really a SPECTRE agent all along, or beforehand?
1) As far as we know, Blofeld was never on the train. It's possible he was there earlier, ie before Bond buys the tickets, but we are never shown this. It's also possible he was there all along but in a compartment by himself, and doesn't come out till Bond and Madeleine disembark then makes his way to his base.
Yes, I do get it but why Hinx wants to kill both Bond and Madeleine? What's the motive?
It's a plot hole. It's poor communication within Spectre. It's the writers or director thinking the film needs an action scene at this point and hoping we don't notice that it's illogical.
12) Where did Madeline Swann go when Bond put her on the train at the end of the film, and what's Bond's life for the next five years in retirement in Jamaica after Italy?
Quote
Is it plausible that Bond could live a simple unprotected life in an open villa in Jamaica for five years with no fear of revenge from any enemies against him??!!
Bond doesn't put her on a train at the end of the film. The pair are seen heading off together in his Aston Martin DB5.
You might be talking of NTTD?
He doesn't put her on a train at the end of that one, either!
Guys, he puts her on a train at the end of the PTS for NTTD. Not at the end of that or any other film.
Edit - though I personally would have 100% preferred that as an ending compared to what we got at the end of NTTD. In fact, I can think of very little I would not have preferred.
I don't remember Bond putting a girl on the train in any Bond film ending either, he does put Madeleine at the PTS of NTTD, that's the only one, but it's not happened at the ending.
Maybe you're talking of LALD, but Bond's there too, and he didn't dumped the girl in there either.
Maybe that scene is not in the Bond film?
Very funny, guys 😁. You've successfully pulled my leg, I'll stop there.
I mixed it up ...it was in No Time to Die when he said goodbye to her before the next segment 5 years later.
We don't know, but it looks like she split her time between working for MI6 in London and living in the cabin in Norway.
Is it me or do elements in the film Spectre mess up its own timeline?
I was working on another continuation theory recently and I was watching some scenes from Spectre when I realised that the film possibly messes up its own timeline. Ok let me explain:
When Bond is in his flat, he's looking through his personal artifacts from Skyfall. He comes across the Temporary Guardianship papers which seem to show that he was 12 years old when he was adopted by Hannes Oberhauser in the year 1983.
Blofeld mentions in the torture scene that Bond came to stay and over the course of two winters his father taught him how to ski, hunt etc. I assume these two winters refer to the winter of 1983, the second over the winter of 1984 until early 1985. Bond would have been 14 in 1985 and Franz is implied to be older. The article Moneypenny reads about the avalanche says that Franz was 16 years old so I assume he is older than Bond by 2 years. The avalanche is the event which causes both father and son Oberhauser to be killed which would explain why Bond gets sent back to England in early 1985 at the age of 14. However there seem to be inconsistencies with this event in the film because it's mentioned by Q in the clinic that the avalanche happened 20 years ago and also Franz says to Bond that he died as Franz Oberhauser 20 years ago then adopted the name Blofeld.
1) If the avalanche happened according to the evidence on the guadianship papers two years after 1983, then the film must have occurred in 2005 to be in line with the avalanche happening 20 years ago. However this messes up the timeframe in CR since the year 2006 appears a few times in that film and in NTTD Vesper's grave indicates she died in 2006. Therefore setting Spectre in 2005 makes no sense.
2) If we assume the film takes place in 2015 and the avalanche happens 20 years earlier, then it happens in 1995. However Bond would clearly have been in his twenties based on the evidence from the adoption papers and Franz would have been even older than Bond. So the article Moneypenny reads contradicts the event happening in 1995.
I can only assume that either the guardianship papers are false or the characters were meant to say the avalanche happened 30 years ago instead of 20 or that the article Moneypenny reads is also false. Can anyone shed any more light on this topic?
Also: There is also the fact that the article states that he body of Franz Oberhauser was not found in the avalanche but yet Q claims he was buried. So more evidence I guess that the article is false.
You have a lot of fun (at least I hope it's fun, rather than work) ahead of you trying to reconcile the irreconcilable. There's more of these instances through the movies if you look for them
It's funny you say that. I actually joined as a member all the way back in 2012 as I was going to share my ideas on the Bond continuity that year. I was one of the stead fast believers that Craig's Bond was no different to the other actors eras and was delighted by the fact the the DB5 in SF suggested that there was a connection. However as much as people love SF, I am not really in that camp and so kind of lost a bit of enthusiasm to share my thoughts at the time. Then prior to Spectre coming out in 2015 I started going through each film making notes to explain the chronology better and connections between the films. However Spectre was really a film I didn't like much and I think I went off Bond few a few years until NTTD came about. Again I was going to share my thoughts the year it came out but I had some personal difficulties back then. Recently I went through some old files on my computer and came across all my old Bond notes so I decided to try and share the things I found out on these forums at long last. Unfortunately my notes for Spectre were a bit sketchy and when I watched some scenes back recently, I realised that the film is kind of messed up with its chronology.
I would welcome a place where I could try and explain all the irreconcilable instances in the films as you say. Perhaps I could make a new thread where everyone can throw their questions about plot holes and inconsistencies and I will do my best to explain them ))
Please, go ahead. 🙂
I have been going through the Craig films in more detail compiling some theories. I thought as the original poster of this thread raised some questions about the film Spectre I thought I would have a stab at answering them. Another user added some more questions above and I have attempted to answer these ones as well.
Dovy's Questions:
1) Starting from the beginning I don't understand exactly what is happening. How did Bond first get involved following the Italians at the very start, and then getting into the chase and fight in the helicopter?
M leaves a video message behind instructing Bond to kill Sciarra. Bond plays the video when he's in his flat. M probably knows about Oberhauser but decides not to tell Bond since he’s meant to be returning to service and seems to be in a bit of a rough state. This would explain why Bond is questioned about Skyfall in the word association scene as she wants to check his mental state over his past.
2) How did the producers manage the amazing helicopter scene in Mexico, over the masses of people on the ground, etc.?
My guess is they used CGI or spliced too scenes together. There probably is a Making Of documentary somewhere.
3) If the new M was suspending Bond for his rogue action in Mexico, how did he get involved with Tanner, Q, and Moneypenny in efforts explicitly prohibited to him? Unless the new leader of Intelligence, C/Max had reversed M's decision?
Bond is given smart blood despite the fact he’s been suspended. Bond pressurises Q into giving him 48 hours of free movement. Bond seems friends with Moneypenny and gives her a new mobile phone to communicate with instead of using work phones.
4) Why did the British government approve the reorganization of British intelligence unifying MI5 and MI6, which would be like unifying the FBI and CIA (before we found out that C/Max was working for Blofeld)?
Probably for financial reasons and/or influence from Spectre. A number of intelligence agencies have folded over the years – The Stasi in East Germany and the KGB in the Soviet Union
5) If Bond has that tracking chip via "Smart Blood" in him the whole time, why wasn't MI6 stopping him very easily, since they knew where he was all the time? What was the deceased M's personal reason to make a video telling Bond to kill Sciarra?
Q complies with Bond’s request to give him 48 hours of free movement without being traced. Q then goes to meet Bond in Austria to persuade him to go to back to London. Chances are Bond tells Q in the hotel room that he is going to Tangier so MI6 could track his movements in there but he as he’s been suspended they assume that he might be taking more annual leave.
6) How is it possible no one in the entire western or even Russian intelligence departments knew anything about Spectre?
It is implied that Spectre have infiltrated nearly every intelligence service in the world. The German woman at the table in the Spectre meeting explains this.
7) Isn't the whole idea of Blofeld setting up the gigantic organization of Spectre to punish Bond more than ridiculous?
I think Blofeld is more interested in other things than just messing around with Bond. Take Le Chiffre – he was trying to crash stock markets to make a fortune. Also the situation in Bolivia over the water supply in QOS.
8) How did Bond abscond the car given over to the newest 009 out of MI6 headquarters?
He breaks into Q’s lab early in the morning and simply takes the car.
9) When Bond went by plane to find Swann in the mountains it looks like he's in a passenger seat, but when he leaves suddenly he's flying the plane. How did he and Swann arrange travel to Tangiers and all the new clothes?
You are right. Bond is a passenger when he arrives then he commandeers the plane when he chases after Jinx. Bond is a secret agent - He probably has access to thousands of pounds in credit cards. Refer to the scene at the airport in QOS when Bond’s credit card doesn’t work. To go to Tangier, Bond can simply go on a website and book flights to Tangier for himself and Swann. He can simply feign he's on leave again taking another holiday. They probably buy new clothes at the airport.
There are always cases of changes of clothes, access to lots of money. How does this happen?
Just explained the money situation above.
11) I always wonder how Bond's enemies miraculously know his location faster and easier than MI6. Whether it's Jaws or Hinx, or whoever (both of course show up on trains)?
It’s implied that Spectre have access to a lot of data and have a large team who can react to the data. Look at the control room when they are with Blofeld. There’s a lot of info being processed by a lot of people in that room!
MI6_Headquarters's questions:
1. Why Hinx wanted to kill both Blofeld and Madeleine in the train, If Blofeld was expecting the both of them to come (alive)? What was that attack for? Had Hinx gone rogue? Making a revenge? For what?
I always thought this was an odd moment in the film. Also when he walks towards them he kicks the table instead of taking a clean shot at Bond. After watching this film again recently, I deduce that Hinx was instructed by Blofeld to follow Bond and Madeleine on the train but not to intercept them since they were on their way to finding out where Blofeld's base was anyway. I think when Hinx walks through the train he isn’t expecting to come across the couple. He’s wearing a nice suit so maybe he just wants to have some dinner. When he notices that Bond can seem him in the reflection of the metal casing, he probably just panics and kicks the table out of frustration knowing that Bond is probably going to start attacking him.
2. Same in the train fight, where's all of the people in the train once the train fight between Bond and Hinx began? And a plus question, why did they suddenly went to the cargo train, in the middle of the fight?
There are people in the background. They run away. Wouldn’t you do the same if you saw two heavy weights swinging blows at one another? The cargo train looks like it might be a storage area for the kitchen.
3. Where's the other 00 agents and other MI6 staffs when that boat chase in the climax happened, did they know what's happening in the MI6? Does it compromised their missions abroad? Why it's seemed only Bond was affected by the issue regarding SPECTRE and the Nine Eyes, when in actual plot, the whole British Intelligence was at stake or compromised? It would be nice if all of the 00 agents were taking SPECTRE down instead of just Bond alone, right? Because it's the whole MI6 that's in hostage here.
I assume the other 00 agents are in other countries so they are possibly already on their way back to London or they are staying in safe houses like Hildebrand.
4. Does the MI5 also knows this issue?
No idea. Does it matter?
5. How did Max Denbigh holds such a high position like that in MI6 without even knowing his background? There's should be one who's looking at his background.
It’s implied that Spectre have infiltrated MI6. Big decisions probably get influenced by Blofeld.
6. And did Blofeld just hired Max Denbigh to be a mole, or he's really a SPECTRE agent all along, or beforehand?
It’s never made explicit in the film but I imagine he’s been warped like most of the other Spectre agents in the control room. Blofeld implies that he can use mind control - at the flick of a button all the agents in the control room stop working and stare at him. His conversation with Bond in the torture scene suggests he knows a lot about the human psyche and how he can manipulate it.
I think Bond's birthdate as seen on the guardianship papers has even changed since CR- he's got a bit younger!
It is never mentioned how old Bond is in any of the films (I welcome any comment that can refute this).
The only exception is in this film in the scene when Bond is looking at the guardianship paper. It states that Bond was 12 years old in 1983. However I would say there is enough evidence to suggest the date written on it is wrong or that the document is fake.
A lot of mistakes are made in adoption cases and this document with the wrong date on it would be no exception. It states his guardian at the time was Charmian Bond who was possibly his aunt. However she is never mentioned in any of the films. It's possible that she detested the idea of having to take over responsibility for her nephew (just like Harry Potter's case) and probably signed the paper sent to her without checking the document over. Bond also only seems to glance at the paper and might be thinking about how stupid his aunt was to sign a paper with the wrong date on it!
The papers are curiously in the box that contain the other personal effects recovered from Skyfall. It's possible that Blofeld faked the document (mistakenly putting the wrong date on it) and planted it there with the photograph to tease Bond.