OHMSS Timeline
Gebruder Gumbold
San FranciscoPosts: 549MI6 Agent
Thinking about my favourite film of all time, I noticed a slight timeline problem.
- Bond visits Draco in Settembro, 1969 according to Draco's own calendar, which Bond perforates with Che Che's throwing knife.
- Bond visits Piz Gloria in December (filmed Dec 1968) of 1969 and Blofeld wishes him a "Merry Christmas, 007." Bond and Tracy escape on either Christmas Eve or Christmas Day 1969. Stock car rally and "It's not New Years yet" line.
- Bond and Draco's army of "Distinguished representatives of the World Press" rescue Tracy and Bond fights Blofeld on the Bobsleigh cars. That has to be post Dec 25, 1969, but not too long as Tracy hadn't been Blofeld's captive for very long.
- Wonderful shot of Bond returning to Lisbon to buy the ring. It is sunny and warm, like the previous montage shown when he courts Tracy. Same light blue suit.
- Wedding scene in warm weather and clear skies in Portugal. Implying an April or May wedding, 1970.
- Here's the problem: Tracy's grave denotes a 1969 death (FYEO). Unless every event including Blofeld being treated for the severe neck injury, planning of the wedding, journey from London and Switzerland of wedding guests to Portugal all happened in less than 1 week, in high winter, we have a problem.
Obviously, the producers wanted a direct tie in to OHMSS, which was released in 1969. To be correct, though, the grave ought to read "1970" as year of Tracy's death.
Your thoughts?
Tom
Comments
That's a great point, never spotted that.
Thanks for breaking all that down, Tom. Interesting to see all the dates like that.
As you so rightly say, I think for simplicity and overall continuity they just put 1969, as if they'd put 1970, people would question it.
I would say thats somebody building a prop, not having done the research as you have, and nobody in authority spotting the error or caring
OHMSS follows Fleming's book very carefully, and everything you list is internally consistent within OHMSS, except the FYEO goof
but I do have one question: I know Lisbon is more temperate than some other places to the north or inland. Whats the weather like there in December?
Google says 15° or so max which I guess it could conceivably be, but even so that does require them arranging a massive wedding in less than a week.
I guess you could say that Blofeld is still in a neck brace, but then he might well be a few months later too depending on his injuries. The trees at the wedding look very green and not terribly wintery though.
Draco doesnt seem like the type of father who'd organise his daughters wedding with such short notice, it would be elaborate and well planned and a lot of important people and farflung relatives would be invited, so I agree its not likely in the last week of December after bond saves the world
since the film follows Fleming so closely, I'll see what Fleming said and report back
I supposed another "problem" is they chose a 1969 calendar as a prop for the film, as that means parts of the story are happening in the future. Never thought of that before.
____________________________________________________________________________________
EDIT: Fleming is specific! first line of Chapter 27. All the Time in the World
'I do.'
James Bond said the words at ten-thirty in the morning of a crystal-clear New Year's Day in the British Consul General's drawing-room.
but then in Fleming's version, the only guests are Draco, the Consul General, and "head of Station M" (Munich), who acts as best man. and they are in Munich, not Portugal, the weather'd be about what it was in Switzerland! so the film did change that, I guess for better visuals of a lavish wedding.
but even by Fleming's account, Tracy died the next year.
(Sorry I had to change my original post because I misread the original post)
This is an interesting observation. Maybe Bond and Draco both decide to put her official death year as 1969 since she may have died that year if she hadn't met Bond.
I could imagine that it's possible for Tracy to jokingly tell Bond to put '69 as her death year on her grave since she nearly attempted suicide at least once that year.
I just watched the film again (still has to be one of the best in the series). Here’s my over-the-top analysis:
When Bond first arrives in Piz Gloria, there are no Christmas decorations. One of the girls asks if he is going to stay for Christmas at which point he responds “Well, I might be”.
The Christmas season can be celebrated as early as late November in Switzerland. The fourth Sunday before Christmas day is the beginning of the first Advent when the Christmas season can officially begin. In 1969 the first Advent Sunday was the 30th November.
In theory the earliest Bond arrives at Piz Gloria is Saturday the 29th November. The next day is Sunday 30th which is when Bond is captured and the girls have their leaving party. There are Christmas trees put up at Piz Gloria so it would make sense that this day is the 30th November at the earliest.
Now, one of the girls when they are all sat together does say “Eggnog on Christmas Eve, just like home!” which implies that it is actually the 24th December but she may just be referencing that the eggnog they are drinking is like how she drinks it at Christmas Eve.
Bunt says that the presents are “going away presents” and not actually Christmas presents so there is a strong possibility it is still only the 30th November.
Bond escapes later on the Sunday evening and meets Tracy in the evening spending the night in the barn. The next day she is trapped in the avalanche on Monday the 1st December. Bond then subsequently travels back to the UK possibly by private jet later that day. It is possible that the next day he meets with M so that would be the Tuesday. He then calls Draco and they possibly fly into Switzerland either the same day or the next so the day would be Wednesday the 3rd December. Bond possibly picks up the ring the next day and the wedding is arranged for late December maybe even on New Years Eve so essentially 4 weeks later. I think Draco would want Tracy to marry Bond sooner rather than later believing that she would be happier once she becomes his wife.
The locations in Portugal are in the Algarve region which is known to be the warmest part of mainland Portugal even in the winter time. I would have to ask someone with more info about the region but the wedding taking place at the end of December 1969 is not completely illogical. Therefore she could have been killed in 1969 and so the date on the grave is correct.
That's very neatly slotted together @sinlum
Thanks! Maybe it's a bit over the top but I did enjoy watching the film again after a long gap.
Sinlum and All,
Sounds perfectly reasonable.
I think that the only real mistake was the Settembro 1969 calendar.
The Aston Martin DBS was made in 1968, and there is no model year really for those cars, as was Tracy's Cougar- shipped to the production company on 15 October 1968, called a 1969 Model (September denotes change in model year for US cars).
If you ignore the calendar, the rest of the film dates fall into place, with Bond visiting Switzerland in Dec 1968, goes through the Christmas time, blows up Piz Gloria, then gets married in, say, May 1969. (Actual filming of the wedding scenes took place in May).
Great comments, thank you.
The only issue with the film taking place in 1968 and the wedding happening months later in 1969 is that M mentions to Bond that he has had 2 years already to hunt down Blofeld as part of Operation Bedlam. Unless the events of YOLT happen at the very start of 1967, M's comment wouldn't fit with the events of OHMSS taking place in 1968 (unless M is rounding up!).
I have always seen the Bond films taking place in their respective release years with a few exceptions. For example the PTS of Goldeneye takes place 9 years before 1995.
QOS is problematic though for me to gauge the timeline since the opening scene takes place immediately after the events of CR in 2006.
I know it's all just a fun exercise, but there are too many "Merry Christmases" exchanged for it to be anything but right before Christmas.
The question of when Switzerland starts celebrating Christmas has no real bearing because no one at Piz Gloria seems to be Swiss.
To the OP's point, there is in fact NO problem with the timeline of OHMSS; there's a continuity error in FYEO.
Even then, some might just consider it a retcon; scan the dates on screen in Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, Spectre and No Time To Die; Bond's birth year shifts in Spectre, two years pass between the end of Casino Royale and the beginning of Quantum, etc.
Fleming himself moved Bond's birth year around to keep him eternally mid- to late 30s.
I think you are all needlessly complicating this issue.
The fact is, Tracy died in the avalanche. And there was no reason for Blofeld to keep her alive - she wasn't a hostage. She was replaced by an MI6 double to give Draco a motive for storming Piz Gloria, and for the mission to be 'off the books'. The double was made to be overly assertive so Draco would knock her out before discovering her true identity. You don't see them interact much afterwards, do you.
Double later bumped off by Blofeld - the whole thing being a State-led insurance job between them all. That's why you see the Double schmoozing Blofeld - they're all mates anyway, but she wasn't in on her end fate.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Blofeld might be saying Merry Christmas to Bond in an ironic way considering he has found out who he is and he is now trapped.
As for the girls, I did think of the idea that their departure may have been fast tracked by Blofeld since he fears being rumbled with Bond turning up. It' s possible that they may have been scheduled to stay the whole December. When Bond first arrives, one of the girls asks Bond if he is staying for Christmas which he answers with he might be to which she responds "Splendid, we could have a party". This implies that the girls were intending to stay for Christmas Day or very close to that day.
Ruby tells Bond the next morning that they are leaving very soon so it is possible that the girls were told that morning they would have to depart Piz Gloria the same day. Bunt says Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to the girls since she won't be seeing them again. What's wrong with saying this at the very start of the Christmas period to someone you know you won't see later in December?
I disagree with the comment that no one is Swiss at Piz Gloria. There are several lines by background characters spoken in German - for example when Bond escapes on skis ⛷️
Sorry forgot to ask 😅
How does Bond's birth year shift around in Spectre? Also does it say somewhere that the PTS of QOS is set in 2008?
I agree with your point that Bond's age does not change. It is a "miracle exemption" which has been applied to all the films throughout all the decades.
The burned up records he glances at in Spectre put his birth year as 1970, as he's 12 years old in January of 1982. (Eon/Sony's previous records have Bond's birth year as 1968, same as Craig's).
The invitation to Greene's party is dated 2008. Bond is also driving a 2008 model Aston Martin in the PTS. These details don't exactly have a line drawn under them, but they're as onscreen as a 1969 date on a headstone.
"I disagree with the comment that no one is Swiss at Piz Gloria. There are several lines by background characters spoken in German - for example when Bond escapes on skis ⛷️"
I can think of a couple other nationalities that speak German...
theres timejump in Quantum, between the chase round Sienna and the main body of the film, also another before the coda where Bond arrests Vespers ex
there was also a timejump in the previous film between Bond reporting Vespers death and his arrival at Mr Whytes house
these timejumps are not explicitly stated but there is no need for these different scenes to follow immediately one after another. Compare with Mathis, who spends a long time in his island prison before Bond gets him released, that time must have passed somewhere in Bonds experience. Otherwise Mathis has been a prisoner for what, a week at most? Bond is probably spending long months at his desk doing paperwork during those implied timejumps, its boring so that dont show that part. (EON have never shown us Bond doing the paperwork Fleming tells us is the bulk of his job, they only turn the camera on when he's doing something that looks cool)
Yes - I always assumed the business at Mr White's villa was at least some months after the Venice affairs, although as you say, it is not nade clear in CR, only in the ensuing scenes with Mathis in QOS.
Isn't the date on the guardianship paper 1983 (and not 1982)? The comment about Eon/Sony putting his birth date as 1968 was never shown in any of the films (unless I am mistaken).
Yes and I live in one of those countries that speaks German 😅
My mistake - January of 1983; the other doc lists his mother's death as November 1982.
Fair enough on his birth year not being shown, but the website bio they published was also used for things like prop passports, which showed his birth date as April 13th, 1968. But at some point that was given to prop makers as their bible, and at some point it was switched.
We'll never make it watertight, but the attempts can be fun.
https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/21277/the-daniel-craig-bond-timeline
Thanks for the link to the Craig Bond timeline. My goodness that person really went to town to write down every conceivable date possible!
It is interesting about the timeline of QOS. I have the film on my to watch list very soon so I will try to work out my own version of the timeline when I watch it again.
Not that it matters but I re-watched QOS to try to work out the timeline. My two cents are:
All the scenes up to and including Bregenz are in late 2006. This would tie in with the ending of CR with Bond capturing Mr White.
After the encounter in Bregenz, Bond then refuses to turn himself in to M after he is mistakenly identified as killing the agent who belonged to special branch. I gather from this point on, Bond goes underground for a few months and then meets up with Mathis. This happens probably in the spring/ summer of 2007.
The invitations to Greene's event do indeed have the date 8.23.08 so you could argue that the film is simply taking place in 2008. However I reckon the invitations could simply be fake because as they state "exclusive invitation" on them, how would Mathis be able to get hold of two to give to Bond and Fields? Surely these invitations would only be given out to select VIPs. Mathis probably speaks to the general who arranges with Mathis to have three extra ones made (with errata) which he can later use to expose Mathis to the authorities and set up for his "murder".
The scenes in Bolivia all therefore take place in 2007. The final scene in Kazan, Russia takes place in 2008 to bring the closure of the film up to the (then) current year.
Sorry to bring up this thread again but I just noticed that Draco says at the wedding:
"Teresa, just because you are Mrs Bond, don't forget my birthday next year. Both of you, or maybe all of you".
So my idea of the wedding taking place at the very end of 1969 holds water, since why would Draco say "next year" with the comments about his birthday? Therefore the year of death on the gravestone in FYEO is correct.