we've had several female agents over the years, from Anya Amasova through Jinx and we've had a few amateur adventurers, usually on missions of revenge, like Melina Havelock or Camille
Camille was an agent for Bolivian intelligence. When Bond and Camille are taking off in the old plane Bond says, "My sources tell me your Bolivian secret service. Or used to be."
I don't think it's confirmed that she's an 00. Miranda even says ''He's a double O, and a wild one,'' like she isn't one herself. But her file seems to say something else
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I don't think it's confirmed that she's an 00. Miranda even says ''He's a double O, and a wild one,'' like she isn't one herself. But her file seems to say something else
True, it does seem like Frost is a regular agent. We know they originally planned to use Gala Brand, with the name change being a last minute decision. Brand's file has her as 0089, and from what I can tell, all details from her file (except for the name, obviously) are the same as on Frost's file. Therefore, it would be reasonable to assume Frost became 0089.
In conclusion, either Frost is indeed a 00 in the film; OR Frost is a regular agent - and the last minute name change saw all other details (Brand's '00' status) remain on the props, possibly due to time restraints.
Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
Personally, I've had enough of Bond going rogue for the time being.
I think it works to great effect every now and again but I would prefer to see a return to Bond working directly for Her Majesty's Government, following M's orders (to a certain degree) on a proper stand alone mission.
I have less objection to the other aspect you refer to but it needs to be handled subtly and more delicately, in today's age.
We know they originally planned to use Gala Brand, with the name change being a last minute decision. Brand's file has her as 0089, and from what I can tell, all details from her file (except for the name, obviously) are the same as on Frost's file. Therefore, it would be reasonable to assume Frost became 0089.
I'd heard Frost in earlier scripts was named Gala Brand. I didnt know Gala Brand was intended to be a fellow double oh. if true, this misses half the point of Fleming's character, the real Gala Brand was an agent of a rival spy agency (Scotland Yard) and Bond was treading on her jurisdiction, thats why there was tension between the two characters. Just using a Fleming name for a fellow double oh does not adapt the character to screen, so just as well in this case she was renamed.
On the other hand, Holly Goodhead should just have been named Gala Brand, as she fit the original Fleming context better. Also, she hardly seemed the type for a silly BondGirl name.
I had a bit of a think about Miranda Frost over morning coffee...
OK so maybe she isn't working for a rival agency like Scotland Yard (or CIA), but in this story Bond himself isn't even officially employed, so regardless of the fact she's working for the same boss as Bond, Bond is not working for said boss, unwelcome on this mission and most definitely treading on her turf.
M briefs Frost on Bond, because he's got himself involved anyway and the official agent needs to know. M does not brief Bond on Frost because he's not supposed to be there at all (M would have preferred he stay in his Korean prison cell). Once he receives the invisible car, he must have some official status, as he's taking receipt for government property, but I cant remember if he also meets with M in those scenes or what she says about his status for the remainder of the adventure?
also, Frost may not be engaged to be married, like Gala Brand, but she does turn out to be seriously committed to another man, a revelation which is more of a threat to Bond than some corny old engagement ring!
so I concede maybe she is a clever update on the Gala Brand concept and should have kept the name.
but this idea that Bond is no longer employed, and a woman has taken his job, is essentially the same in both Die Another Day and the upcoming Bond25. Difference seems to be Bond is voluntarily retired and Nomi actively seeks his help.
I believe there certainly was a plan for Miranda Frost to have taken the 007 number at some point in the production. But they seemed to come down on the side of her not-quite attaining double-0 status. I'm not sure why really- the idea of Bond meeting his replacement is quite a nice idea I think, maybe they thought with Jinx in the film that might be too many superspies in one movie? Or maybe they thought it was unsuitable for the 40th anniversary movie to have anyone but Bond be 007?
I quite liked Q's "double-0 zero" name for him, kind of a shame that didn't seem to be his official new designation. Maybe that line was even a hangover from a script draft where Frost was 007.
Thinking about what you're saying it might have been nice for M to have been playing a bit more of a game with the two of Frost and Bond: maybe she could have suspected them both of being the traitor and wanted to see who survived. Something like that could have added a nice little bit of edge to it.
Speaking of jurisdiction, it's such a long time since I read it but how does M get round the issue of Bond working within the UK? I thought they couldn't operate here and that was the purview of the security services.
Before I wanted to see more 00-agents in the movies, especially female ones. But now that the MI movies have Ethan Hunt as the star of a group of agents in every movie it no longer feels new and different. Bond should work alone and other 00-agents should be in a scene or two in the od Bond movie, like in TB, OP and TLD. Bond is not the type who likes to work in teams.
Yes and no. There are very few Bond movies where it isn't him and the female lead going into the climax of the movie together.
I agree that maybe him teaming up with other spies can be a little less interesting just because they're sort of ready-made companions for him: there's not always been a lot of thought for why these women are in that situation.
I agree that all the female spies Bond gets teamed up with is getting old. I think it could be more interesting to see Bond with women with a different world view. Perhaps a journalist who is investigating the same case as Bond. A journalist's instincts and job is to report it if she learns about MI6 agents with a licence to kill.
Or perhaps a missionary in some exotic country? Many of them are doctor, nurses or working for the welfare of the locals in some other way. A missionary could end up working along side Bond, but her views on sex, alcohol and violence would be stods with Bond's.
Or perhaps a missionary in some exotic country? Many of them are doctor, nurses or working for the welfare of the locals in some other way. A missionary could end up working along side Bond, but her views on sex, alcohol and violence would be stods with Bond's.
yes but which actress would you like to get in the Missionary Position?
(sorry folks but a set-up like that must not be wasted)
Yeah I did think Camille's story was actually fairly compelling in QoS: she was fighting for the same things as Bond but with a strong personal reason. Very much like a Fleming heroine in fact.
There is nothing wrong with Bond teaming up with female agents once in a while. Sometimes the obvious is the right thing to do. But I think it's happening too often. Doing something completely different with the female leads could be fun!
Comments
Camille was an agent for Bolivian intelligence. When Bond and Camille are taking off in the old plane Bond says, "My sources tell me your Bolivian secret service. Or used to be."
Is this correct? Do we see her card in the Movie?
True, it does seem like Frost is a regular agent. We know they originally planned to use Gala Brand, with the name change being a last minute decision. Brand's file has her as 0089, and from what I can tell, all details from her file (except for the name, obviously) are the same as on Frost's file. Therefore, it would be reasonable to assume Frost became 0089.
In conclusion, either Frost is indeed a 00 in the film; OR Frost is a regular agent - and the last minute name change saw all other details (Brand's '00' status) remain on the props, possibly due to time restraints.
I am rather fond of Bond working nearly rogue and bedding every hot woman that comes within martini range. In short, don't change a winning formula.
Personally, I've had enough of Bond going rogue for the time being.
I think it works to great effect every now and again but I would prefer to see a return to Bond working directly for Her Majesty's Government, following M's orders (to a certain degree) on a proper stand alone mission.
I have less objection to the other aspect you refer to but it needs to be handled subtly and more delicately, in today's age.
Quentin Quigley said:
We know they originally planned to use Gala Brand, with the name change being a last minute decision. Brand's file has her as 0089, and from what I can tell, all details from her file (except for the name, obviously) are the same as on Frost's file. Therefore, it would be reasonable to assume Frost became 0089.
I'd heard Frost in earlier scripts was named Gala Brand. I didnt know Gala Brand was intended to be a fellow double oh. if true, this misses half the point of Fleming's character, the real Gala Brand was an agent of a rival spy agency (Scotland Yard) and Bond was treading on her jurisdiction, thats why there was tension between the two characters. Just using a Fleming name for a fellow double oh does not adapt the character to screen, so just as well in this case she was renamed.
On the other hand, Holly Goodhead should just have been named Gala Brand, as she fit the original Fleming context better. Also, she hardly seemed the type for a silly BondGirl name.
I had a bit of a think about Miranda Frost over morning coffee...
OK so maybe she isn't working for a rival agency like Scotland Yard (or CIA), but in this story Bond himself isn't even officially employed, so regardless of the fact she's working for the same boss as Bond, Bond is not working for said boss, unwelcome on this mission and most definitely treading on her turf.
M briefs Frost on Bond, because he's got himself involved anyway and the official agent needs to know. M does not brief Bond on Frost because he's not supposed to be there at all (M would have preferred he stay in his Korean prison cell). Once he receives the invisible car, he must have some official status, as he's taking receipt for government property, but I cant remember if he also meets with M in those scenes or what she says about his status for the remainder of the adventure?
also, Frost may not be engaged to be married, like Gala Brand, but she does turn out to be seriously committed to another man, a revelation which is more of a threat to Bond than some corny old engagement ring!
so I concede maybe she is a clever update on the Gala Brand concept and should have kept the name.
but this idea that Bond is no longer employed, and a woman has taken his job, is essentially the same in both Die Another Day and the upcoming Bond25. Difference seems to be Bond is voluntarily retired and Nomi actively seeks his help.
I believe there certainly was a plan for Miranda Frost to have taken the 007 number at some point in the production. But they seemed to come down on the side of her not-quite attaining double-0 status. I'm not sure why really- the idea of Bond meeting his replacement is quite a nice idea I think, maybe they thought with Jinx in the film that might be too many superspies in one movie? Or maybe they thought it was unsuitable for the 40th anniversary movie to have anyone but Bond be 007?
I quite liked Q's "double-0 zero" name for him, kind of a shame that didn't seem to be his official new designation. Maybe that line was even a hangover from a script draft where Frost was 007.
Thinking about what you're saying it might have been nice for M to have been playing a bit more of a game with the two of Frost and Bond: maybe she could have suspected them both of being the traitor and wanted to see who survived. Something like that could have added a nice little bit of edge to it.
Speaking of jurisdiction, it's such a long time since I read it but how does M get round the issue of Bond working within the UK? I thought they couldn't operate here and that was the purview of the security services.
Before I wanted to see more 00-agents in the movies, especially female ones. But now that the MI movies have Ethan Hunt as the star of a group of agents in every movie it no longer feels new and different. Bond should work alone and other 00-agents should be in a scene or two in the od Bond movie, like in TB, OP and TLD. Bond is not the type who likes to work in teams.
Yes and no. There are very few Bond movies where it isn't him and the female lead going into the climax of the movie together.
I agree that maybe him teaming up with other spies can be a little less interesting just because they're sort of ready-made companions for him: there's not always been a lot of thought for why these women are in that situation.
"..... him and the female lead going into the climax....." 🤣 🤣 (Imature laughter) 🤣🤣
To be serious (and fairly mature):
I agree that all the female spies Bond gets teamed up with is getting old. I think it could be more interesting to see Bond with women with a different world view. Perhaps a journalist who is investigating the same case as Bond. A journalist's instincts and job is to report it if she learns about MI6 agents with a licence to kill.
Or perhaps a missionary in some exotic country? Many of them are doctor, nurses or working for the welfare of the locals in some other way. A missionary could end up working along side Bond, but her views on sex, alcohol and violence would be stods with Bond's.
Number24 said:
Or perhaps a missionary in some exotic country? Many of them are doctor, nurses or working for the welfare of the locals in some other way. A missionary could end up working along side Bond, but her views on sex, alcohol and violence would be stods with Bond's.
yes but which actress would you like to get in the Missionary Position?
(sorry folks but a set-up like that must not be wasted)
I was aware that joke was obvious 🤣
Yeah I did think Camille's story was actually fairly compelling in QoS: she was fighting for the same things as Bond but with a strong personal reason. Very much like a Fleming heroine in fact.
There is nothing wrong with Bond teaming up with female agents once in a while. Sometimes the obvious is the right thing to do. But I think it's happening too often. Doing something completely different with the female leads could be fun!