We are not in Blade Runner 2049 ! It's a Bond film we are talking about, that's why I don't even imagine that.
We must be careful with this human cloning concept. Between what Safin wants and what he actually can, there's a world...
I read a theory about the fact Mathilde would be a clone of little Madeleine created by Safin. I think it would be silly for a movie supposed to deal with espionage and not Sci-Fi.
Didn't anayone ever wonder if the gap of five years between Matera and Bond meeting Madeleine again doesn't precisely correspond to Mathilde's age ? It would mean the child was conceived in Matera during the romantic escape (the link with the ending scene of Sp seems obvious here). It would be quite relevant and most of all, what a beautiful proof she's a biological human being and not a clone !
If one takes a dispassionate look at Bond's evolution during Craig's tenure, the death theory is quite plausible. You have two movies set minutes apart (CR + QoS) dealing with the beginning of the character's career, then a gap during which Bond has been 007 for an unspecified number of years until his "death" at the SF PTS. A few months pass and he returns to active service and his age is an issue (SF again). And then SPECTRE happens, one surmises, also a few months after SF (clearing M's bequeath shouldn't take that long).
If Matera is a few months after SPECTRE's finale and then NTtD properly begins five years later, and one of its themes is Bond returning from retirement for a last hurrah, I can see the appeal, storyline-wise, for closure of the character's story. I can picture the discussions, and DC and BB being ardently in favour of such a finale.
Whether they did do it and what the audience's reactions would be is anyone's guess until this Friday, I guess (or today for you lucky bastards going to the RAH premiere). I know I wouldn't like it and it would make Bond lose his "timelessness" to me, but then again we will know for sure in a couple days.
That being said, B26's introduction WILL be weird. Will they reboot again and give us a "green", fresh-off-the-military Bond? Will they make it so it's a complete mission while in the service to be silently "placed" in the years between QoS and SF? Will they rejuvenate the character and acknowledge NTTD's ending with Bond simply answering "I got better" to a "I thought you were dead" comment? Questions, questions, questions.
"Enjoy it while it lasts."
"The very words I live by."
I don't agree with the plausibleness of Bond's death. I even think it's the opposite. The fact CR06 was an origin story and the fact the five movies define a timeline clearly indicate the wish of the producers to show the evolution of the character from the first chapter of the reboot to the last.
And believe me or not, considering the following elements are present, it's not difficult to understand EON decided to choose a mythological approach to conclude the Craig era:
0) the chronological order of the chapters (necessary condition)
1) the importance of the past/childhood of the main character
2) the people the main character has met and the role of each one within his journey (mentor, friend, lover, acquaintance, enemy)
3) the choices/mistakes made by the main character and its consequences storyline-wise (achievements, failures, losses, pains)
Now, if you get interested in Bond's path since CR06, I can tell you it couldn't be more cynical to have him dying (being killed, sacrificing himself or whatever else) at the end of NTTD, unless the way he behaves in the movie can be ethically considered as wrongful, which seems unlikely from what the trailers and various TV spots feature.
That's the difference between Anakin Skywalker and Bond for instance. They both have endured very big traumas but the first one learnt nothing from his journey while the second one understood the only means to fight your own shade is to accept it, with all the pains it implies (what a shame QoS and Sp were so disappointing because Bond makes crucial choices in these movies). That's why their odysseys cannot end the same way.
If Bond actually dies, please remind me all of you guys to send the producers a copy of this:
I've only read bits and bobs on the NTTD plot so there's stuff I know about the plot, and stuff I don't know. Therefore, what I am about to say may have been disproven by other plot points, however: I always felt that the small girl on the ice was a flashback and that it was the young Madeline. I harken back to her in Spectre saying about Blofeld coming to the house when she was little and felt that the ice scene in NTTD and that recollection were connected. I'm probably completely wrong, but that was my feeling.
@SeanIsTheOnlyOne When I talk about plausibleness, I mean I can picture the discussion of Craig’s Bond’s death being on the table. I do not personally condone it, nor think it would be a good idea, nor would I consider it as it is my belief it would undermine the character and any future reboot, continuation or return. But the fact is, I do believe this aging of the character also undermines it. That being said, I will happily welcome any replacement making the character his and cavalierly dismissing any considerations on his age or death…
"Enjoy it while it lasts."
"The very words I live by."
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Quite agree. My inclination is that it's Madeleine, or (surely) Nomi. If they DO attempt to pull off a faux Bond death, I'll be fairly shocked. But he won't be any more truly 'dead' than Spock was at the end of 'The Wrath of Khan.'
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
There's a lot I can't dispute here. But THAT kind of spoiler would be utterly impossible to contain, and might have an unpredictable effect on the box office - not in the short term, but rather, the prospects of an extended run in the cinemas - which I believe that Eon (and the film industry) is counting on in the Covid era. But that could prove a thin rationalization, because it would also be a huge landmark in movie history.
The anticipation for us Yanks will be as agonizing as ever.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Oh, I think all of us will have a hard time awaiting our moment in the theatre, whether it's a couple of days or a couple of months (poor Australian fans have to wait until NOVEMBER).
Without going into spoiler territory (as I haven't seen the movie nor read anything spoilery about it yet), I don't think they'll go for THAT ending, no matter what the Zimmer track may make us fear. And I found an old Fukunaga interview where he explicitely stated that the credits WOULD have the mythic "James Bond will return" line. But I'm pretty sure the discussion was on the table at a certain point of the production.
"Enjoy it while it lasts."
"The very words I live by."
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,707MI6 Agent
Comments
A Vesper clone is my theory :)
A giant Vesper clone.
We are not in Blade Runner 2049 ! It's a Bond film we are talking about, that's why I don't even imagine that.
We must be careful with this human cloning concept. Between what Safin wants and what he actually can, there's a world...
I read a theory about the fact Mathilde would be a clone of little Madeleine created by Safin. I think it would be silly for a movie supposed to deal with espionage and not Sci-Fi.
Didn't anayone ever wonder if the gap of five years between Matera and Bond meeting Madeleine again doesn't precisely correspond to Mathilde's age ? It would mean the child was conceived in Matera during the romantic escape (the link with the ending scene of Sp seems obvious here). It would be quite relevant and most of all, what a beautiful proof she's a biological human being and not a clone !
If one takes a dispassionate look at Bond's evolution during Craig's tenure, the death theory is quite plausible. You have two movies set minutes apart (CR + QoS) dealing with the beginning of the character's career, then a gap during which Bond has been 007 for an unspecified number of years until his "death" at the SF PTS. A few months pass and he returns to active service and his age is an issue (SF again). And then SPECTRE happens, one surmises, also a few months after SF (clearing M's bequeath shouldn't take that long).
If Matera is a few months after SPECTRE's finale and then NTtD properly begins five years later, and one of its themes is Bond returning from retirement for a last hurrah, I can see the appeal, storyline-wise, for closure of the character's story. I can picture the discussions, and DC and BB being ardently in favour of such a finale.
Whether they did do it and what the audience's reactions would be is anyone's guess until this Friday, I guess (or today for you lucky bastards going to the RAH premiere). I know I wouldn't like it and it would make Bond lose his "timelessness" to me, but then again we will know for sure in a couple days.
That being said, B26's introduction WILL be weird. Will they reboot again and give us a "green", fresh-off-the-military Bond? Will they make it so it's a complete mission while in the service to be silently "placed" in the years between QoS and SF? Will they rejuvenate the character and acknowledge NTTD's ending with Bond simply answering "I got better" to a "I thought you were dead" comment? Questions, questions, questions.
"The very words I live by."
@writingsonthewall
I don't agree with the plausibleness of Bond's death. I even think it's the opposite. The fact CR06 was an origin story and the fact the five movies define a timeline clearly indicate the wish of the producers to show the evolution of the character from the first chapter of the reboot to the last.
And believe me or not, considering the following elements are present, it's not difficult to understand EON decided to choose a mythological approach to conclude the Craig era:
0) the chronological order of the chapters (necessary condition)
1) the importance of the past/childhood of the main character
2) the people the main character has met and the role of each one within his journey (mentor, friend, lover, acquaintance, enemy)
3) the choices/mistakes made by the main character and its consequences storyline-wise (achievements, failures, losses, pains)
Now, if you get interested in Bond's path since CR06, I can tell you it couldn't be more cynical to have him dying (being killed, sacrificing himself or whatever else) at the end of NTTD, unless the way he behaves in the movie can be ethically considered as wrongful, which seems unlikely from what the trailers and various TV spots feature.
That's the difference between Anakin Skywalker and Bond for instance. They both have endured very big traumas but the first one learnt nothing from his journey while the second one understood the only means to fight your own shade is to accept it, with all the pains it implies (what a shame QoS and Sp were so disappointing because Bond makes crucial choices in these movies). That's why their odysseys cannot end the same way.
If Bond actually dies, please remind me all of you guys to send the producers a copy of this:
I've only read bits and bobs on the NTTD plot so there's stuff I know about the plot, and stuff I don't know. Therefore, what I am about to say may have been disproven by other plot points, however: I always felt that the small girl on the ice was a flashback and that it was the young Madeline. I harken back to her in Spectre saying about Blofeld coming to the house when she was little and felt that the ice scene in NTTD and that recollection were connected. I'm probably completely wrong, but that was my feeling.
@SeanIsTheOnlyOne When I talk about plausibleness, I mean I can picture the discussion of Craig’s Bond’s death being on the table. I do not personally condone it, nor think it would be a good idea, nor would I consider it as it is my belief it would undermine the character and any future reboot, continuation or return. But the fact is, I do believe this aging of the character also undermines it. That being said, I will happily welcome any replacement making the character his and cavalierly dismissing any considerations on his age or death…
"The very words I live by."
Quite agree. My inclination is that it's Madeleine, or (surely) Nomi. If they DO attempt to pull off a faux Bond death, I'll be fairly shocked. But he won't be any more truly 'dead' than Spock was at the end of 'The Wrath of Khan.'
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
There's a lot I can't dispute here. But THAT kind of spoiler would be utterly impossible to contain, and might have an unpredictable effect on the box office - not in the short term, but rather, the prospects of an extended run in the cinemas - which I believe that Eon (and the film industry) is counting on in the Covid era. But that could prove a thin rationalization, because it would also be a huge landmark in movie history.
The anticipation for us Yanks will be as agonizing as ever.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Oh, I think all of us will have a hard time awaiting our moment in the theatre, whether it's a couple of days or a couple of months (poor Australian fans have to wait until NOVEMBER).
Without going into spoiler territory (as I haven't seen the movie nor read anything spoilery about it yet), I don't think they'll go for THAT ending, no matter what the Zimmer track may make us fear. And I found an old Fukunaga interview where he explicitely stated that the credits WOULD have the mythic "James Bond will return" line. But I'm pretty sure the discussion was on the table at a certain point of the production.
"The very words I live by."
One thing you didn't mention, in Casino Royale Bond says 00s have a very short life expectancy.
Indeed, Mr Martini. Another hint from the very beginning, should they have decided to take that route.
"The very words I live by."
For anyone who is interested, the two scripts I wrote and have held back from people being able to download, are now available.
Operation Vengeance was written between the end of Spectre's theatrical run and NTTD starting production.
Nothing is Forever was written between NTTD's first delay and September 12 this year.
I hope they bring some comfort to Bond fans at this difficult time. ;-)
All constructive feedback welcome.