He’s a better actor than many people think. He’s often made the best of thin scripts in blockbusters, and his work in both seasons of the Witcher is outstanding, in addition to being physically compelling.
I dunno, I don't think he's all that great. He's obviously not bad otherwise he wouldn't be working, and if he was cast as Bond I'm sure he'd do a perfectly fine job, but personally I'm hoping for someone a bit more exciting: better than fine, ideally.
We also rarely get to see/hear Cavill speak in his natural accent.
IMO, when he speaks in an American accent (which he does flawlessly) I think his line readings can become a bit stiff (ironically, I actually think this works fine for Superman). In Enola Holmes, he plays Sherlock Holmes and with his natural accent his line delivery is much more fluid and relaxed.
I just believe that Cavill, despite his wanting to be Bond just has too much on his plate with The Witcher being a hit on Netflix and his rumored return as Superman. Plus, I wonder if EON just would not consider him now for Bond because of his identification as Superman.
EON also has a history of not liking to overpay a new Bond in their first film but may be Cavill would be an exception since they liked him so much the first time he auditioned and he has a pretty good track record in big films.
I would not underestimate what Gymkata said. EON is still run as a family business where relationships are highly valued. Considering that a Bond actor would most likely be around for multiple films over a decade and the challenges, enormity, and team work required of making a Bond film, Cavill's on set reputation would certainly be another asset.
I don’t agree, but you’ve touched on something that I think does work against Cavill, and that’s the fact that he is such a well-known commodity. The casting of Daniel Craig—a relative unknown—has given many people the sense that they want/need to be surprised again. I think Ms. Broccoli buys into this as well. And why shouldn’t she? Her selection of Craig was vindicated many times over by critics, most Bond fans, and the general public. That said, it’s high-risk, high-reward to go with an unknown rather than someone like Cavill. Casting an unknown worked with Craig and Connery, not so much with Lazenby, which is why it was avoided for so many years.
Lazenby was an unknown for sure, but really an outlier because he really wasn't an actor. Moore and Brosnan were much better known when they were cast. Dalton was much better known as a stage actor but had been in some big films but primarily in supporting roles (and like Cavill had been considered for Bond earlier but was a bit too young). Connery was raw but had done films and TV but was barely a "B" lister and barely known in the USA (an exception being Lana Turner and her mobster boyfriend that Connery whooped ass on...I wonder if that was his real Bond audition 😎?). Craig was similar to Connery but had some stage cred like Dalton. We shall see where this all goes.
That's an excellent point. Craig didn't take the job from some "heir apparent;" the closest thing was some folks online pulling for Clive Owen. The next guy is going to have more of an uphill battle than even the Blond Bond 😂
Cavill is 38 ,same as Craig when he was cast, but higher profile. Eon won't let him be Superman and Bond. And as Miles Messervy says above, he's already a known commodity. I think Eon will be looking for someone a bit less known.
It's going to come down to charisma and screen presence along with the other Bond prerequisites. Lots of tall handsome young actors out there who spend a lot of time in the gym (and many have been brought up here) but not many who can pass muster when it comes to those special Bond qualities. And now after Craig, there is probably even an expectation that the new Bond is also a good actor, not just a guy doing a Bond impersonation. Could you imagine in these days of the internet and social media, etc how someone like Lazenby, an unknown non-actor, would be eaten alive.
Here’s one prediction: the next Bond won’t look like a body builder (this also works against Cavill). I see the trend moving away from that look, much like the 90s reaction to the steroidal heroes of the 80s. Even the recent comic book heroes are trending away from bulk. Most notably, Robert Pattinson’s upcoming take on Batman. A welcome development, in my view.
One of the toughest guys ever knew in 30 years of Service in the British army looked more like Charle Hawtrey than Charles Bronson..so never bought into that got to look tough to be tough thing!…. Always thought Kiefer Sutherland played the unassuming tough guy to perfection in his portrayal of Jack Bauer…
I don't think there's anything wrong with the way Brosnan looked or Moore looked most of his tenure. Bond should look fit, but not like someone who spends many hours every week lifting weights. Of course I know there's a lot of difference between real life and Bond movies, but here's a photo of US Marine Raiders training hand-to-hand combat. The Raiders were among the most elite US soldiers in WWII. None of them look like bodybuilders, but all of them are very fit commandoes.
Here's a recent example. The SBS is the British Navy special forces and the modern James Bond served in the unit. This is not a bodybuilder:
I don't really see that, I think the fuss about Elba has passed and most folks realise he's not quite the right age, and I see as much indifference to Cavill as I do excitement. As Phil mentioned, it's not really that different to Clive Owen back then. A few folks got excited about him but not really enough to make a dent.
Gymkata wasn't really talking about their build though (Roger was built like Johnny Bravo: quite a bizarre-looking human in fact!); they were talking about how they moved in fight scenes. I would agree that neither were hugely convincing.
Always interesting to think actors of the ilk of David Niven or Christopher Lee wouldn't be touched by Hollywood (generalising) today as at all believable in a role like 007...but of course, they actually proved more than up to the task in real life...
Perceptions and aesthetics for TV/Film have fundamentally shifted. Whilst I think you might get similar to the 90s fight club aesthetic pushback over 80s Conan I do think a level of muscle is fixed for the time being - Pattinson may not have been bulking in lockdown for Batman but the suit has lost none of the intimidating quasi musculature. He also seems the exception not the rule. Just look how excited everyone got over the Kumail Nanjiani transformation for Eternals, ditto Will Poulter for the upcoming GOTG3. And of course we now have instagram bursting at the seams with ex-special forces operators pushing muscle and mass - whatever the reality of those who are still in service.
Of course change has also come to the style of filming and acting...just one of the reasons Moore suffers in comparison to Connery is the abating of speeding up film to make violence seem more intense.
Well, he said "look/move convincingly", not just 'look'.
And Roger had shape and look, especially in a suit. He wasn't actually muscular but had genetics which gave him a powerful build. But, bless him, couldn't really throw a punch all that convincingly, as fun as it was to watch him (and I would imagine that he probably had double the amount of screen fights than any other Bond actor), and that's what we're talking about.
I hear you Gymkata, and you might be right. But I think EON will cast someone as different from Craig as possible. I agree a certain level of fitness will be required, but I think his physique will be more like Pattinson, Hiddleston, Page or Holland. I see this as a new trend, but it’s nascent. Bond could contribute substantially to the shift.
And let’s be honest, CR Craig and NTTD Craig are very different. The reliance on guns for action in the last film made the Brosnan years look tame by comparison.
Yeah I don't think NTTD was very representative of the Craig years in terms of action, in that its action wasn't... all that great. It did come down to just a lot of shooting, you're right.
in his Bond films, Roger resorted to breaking furniture over opponent's backs and such, but when he was Templar he engaged in freewheeling knockdown punch ups every episode, Lots of haymaker punches, like a character in Jack Kirby drawing.
as for the most recent actor, I don't believe Craig needed to be bulked up like a TV wrestler to play James Bond. I found it a distraction, and as a spy he should be trying to be more discrete, not call extra attention to himself.
Not necessary directing this at you, but I found it amusing so many people probably agreed with Bond being more discrete and not calling extra attention to himself and then begging for Henry Cavill to play him. Cause he looks really discrete.
As Sir Rog said himself Bond is the worst secret agent ever as every barmen around the world knows him!…. So I mho the whole discreet thing is not really an issue with cinematic Bond. Have always been in the Cavill camp and think if anything he would maybe slim down.. thought he looked perfect for Bond in MI apart from the Tash😂… Huddleston to would be good.
I think Aiden Turner has the perfect physique for Bond. Muscular, toned but not overly so.
I would be happy with Turner or Cavill in the role, the latter, as I think he's the perfect cinematic choice in the way Moore and Brosnan were and I would quite like a return to this feel of 007 films after the heavy going of the DC era. I also like the tradition of the actor getting the gig that was almost chosen years before.
Having said all that, I think they'll still go a bit leftfield and will plump for a lesser know actor or one of mixed race. Rege-Jean Page is still favourite I reckon.
Craig was only really "bulked up" for CR. In the rest of his films he was basically lean and very fit. But at around 5'10" or 5'11" Craig just has one of those bodies that develops a lot of lean muscle mass when he trains. Bond does not need to look like a body builder (which really makes no sense) but does need to look fit and formidable (although "formidable" is more defined by how he actually handles fight scenes and action in general). Cavil would obviously not train for Bond the way he trains for Superman. If anything, Cavil would need to lean down. Interestingly, Cavil is not as big as you might think. He is only a hair taller than 6 ft and weighs around 175-180 lbs (which would certainly be fine for Bond). For Superman, he bulked up to around 200 lbs but the film makers did a great job of creating the illusion of him appearing to easily look like he is 6'2" and 220 lbs as Superman.
What we do need in a Bond actor is the ability to excel in action scenes, especially hand to hand fights. Craig was exceptional at fight scenes (of course, we also need to give credit to the fight choreographers and stunt people also). One of the things that stood out to me in watching the "Being Bond" documentary was seeing (without the benefit of camera angles or clever editing) how well Craig moved in the fight scene rehearsals.
I think it's going to come down to whom Barbara Broccoli personally finds magnetic and sexy. In"Being James Bond," she all but admits she cast Craig from a shot of him walking manfully down a hall in "Elizabeth." (I'm exaggerating but watch the interview and you'll see what I mean.) The fact that Cavill was a runner-up before suggests she likes him fine. And I agree with Gymkata that Henry does action in "M:I - Fallout" more convincingly than Cruise who's no slouch himself.
I think Cavill's fighting style in the MI:Fallout bathroom fight reflected the personality of his character which was actually very effective. Cavill still looked pretty bulked up in that film (he was fresh off playing Superman). IMO as Bond, I would think the fight choreographers would give Cavill or any other new Bond character a style that would fit Bond; something a bit more clever and less bullish.
Also, Bond isn’t a spy really. He’s basically just a government-sponsored hitman.
Hiddleston though; no. I don’t mind them not having the build, but if they can’t carry themselves believably then I’m out, and the idea of him being an SAS guy in Kong was just silly.
Comments
Thinking outside the box when casting the next James Bond. 😁 (made after SF)
Who's the next James Bond? - YouTube
Yes I think you're right: dialogue doesn't seem to be his thing 😉
He’s a better actor than many people think. He’s often made the best of thin scripts in blockbusters, and his work in both seasons of the Witcher is outstanding, in addition to being physically compelling.
I dunno, I don't think he's all that great. He's obviously not bad otherwise he wouldn't be working, and if he was cast as Bond I'm sure he'd do a perfectly fine job, but personally I'm hoping for someone a bit more exciting: better than fine, ideally.
We also rarely get to see/hear Cavill speak in his natural accent.
IMO, when he speaks in an American accent (which he does flawlessly) I think his line readings can become a bit stiff (ironically, I actually think this works fine for Superman). In Enola Holmes, he plays Sherlock Holmes and with his natural accent his line delivery is much more fluid and relaxed.
I just believe that Cavill, despite his wanting to be Bond just has too much on his plate with The Witcher being a hit on Netflix and his rumored return as Superman. Plus, I wonder if EON just would not consider him now for Bond because of his identification as Superman.
EON also has a history of not liking to overpay a new Bond in their first film but may be Cavill would be an exception since they liked him so much the first time he auditioned and he has a pretty good track record in big films.
I would not underestimate what Gymkata said. EON is still run as a family business where relationships are highly valued. Considering that a Bond actor would most likely be around for multiple films over a decade and the challenges, enormity, and team work required of making a Bond film, Cavill's on set reputation would certainly be another asset.
I don’t agree, but you’ve touched on something that I think does work against Cavill, and that’s the fact that he is such a well-known commodity. The casting of Daniel Craig—a relative unknown—has given many people the sense that they want/need to be surprised again. I think Ms. Broccoli buys into this as well. And why shouldn’t she? Her selection of Craig was vindicated many times over by critics, most Bond fans, and the general public. That said, it’s high-risk, high-reward to go with an unknown rather than someone like Cavill. Casting an unknown worked with Craig and Connery, not so much with Lazenby, which is why it was avoided for so many years.
Lazenby was an unknown for sure, but really an outlier because he really wasn't an actor. Moore and Brosnan were much better known when they were cast. Dalton was much better known as a stage actor but had been in some big films but primarily in supporting roles (and like Cavill had been considered for Bond earlier but was a bit too young). Connery was raw but had done films and TV but was barely a "B" lister and barely known in the USA (an exception being Lana Turner and her mobster boyfriend that Connery whooped ass on...I wonder if that was his real Bond audition 😎?). Craig was similar to Connery but had some stage cred like Dalton. We shall see where this all goes.
That's an excellent point. Craig didn't take the job from some "heir apparent;" the closest thing was some folks online pulling for Clive Owen. The next guy is going to have more of an uphill battle than even the Blond Bond 😂
Cavill is 38 ,same as Craig when he was cast, but higher profile. Eon won't let him be Superman and Bond. And as Miles Messervy says above, he's already a known commodity. I think Eon will be looking for someone a bit less known.
It's going to come down to charisma and screen presence along with the other Bond prerequisites. Lots of tall handsome young actors out there who spend a lot of time in the gym (and many have been brought up here) but not many who can pass muster when it comes to those special Bond qualities. And now after Craig, there is probably even an expectation that the new Bond is also a good actor, not just a guy doing a Bond impersonation. Could you imagine in these days of the internet and social media, etc how someone like Lazenby, an unknown non-actor, would be eaten alive.
Here’s one prediction: the next Bond won’t look like a body builder (this also works against Cavill). I see the trend moving away from that look, much like the 90s reaction to the steroidal heroes of the 80s. Even the recent comic book heroes are trending away from bulk. Most notably, Robert Pattinson’s upcoming take on Batman. A welcome development, in my view.
One of the toughest guys ever knew in 30 years of Service in the British army looked more like Charle Hawtrey than Charles Bronson..so never bought into that got to look tough to be tough thing!…. Always thought Kiefer Sutherland played the unassuming tough guy to perfection in his portrayal of Jack Bauer…
I don't think there's anything wrong with the way Brosnan looked or Moore looked most of his tenure. Bond should look fit, but not like someone who spends many hours every week lifting weights. Of course I know there's a lot of difference between real life and Bond movies, but here's a photo of US Marine Raiders training hand-to-hand combat. The Raiders were among the most elite US soldiers in WWII. None of them look like bodybuilders, but all of them are very fit commandoes.
Here's a recent example. The SBS is the British Navy special forces and the modern James Bond served in the unit. This is not a bodybuilder:
I don't really see that, I think the fuss about Elba has passed and most folks realise he's not quite the right age, and I see as much indifference to Cavill as I do excitement. As Phil mentioned, it's not really that different to Clive Owen back then. A few folks got excited about him but not really enough to make a dent.
Gymkata wasn't really talking about their build though (Roger was built like Johnny Bravo: quite a bizarre-looking human in fact!); they were talking about how they moved in fight scenes. I would agree that neither were hugely convincing.
Always interesting to think actors of the ilk of David Niven or Christopher Lee wouldn't be touched by Hollywood (generalising) today as at all believable in a role like 007...but of course, they actually proved more than up to the task in real life...
Perceptions and aesthetics for TV/Film have fundamentally shifted. Whilst I think you might get similar to the 90s fight club aesthetic pushback over 80s Conan I do think a level of muscle is fixed for the time being - Pattinson may not have been bulking in lockdown for Batman but the suit has lost none of the intimidating quasi musculature. He also seems the exception not the rule. Just look how excited everyone got over the Kumail Nanjiani transformation for Eternals, ditto Will Poulter for the upcoming GOTG3. And of course we now have instagram bursting at the seams with ex-special forces operators pushing muscle and mass - whatever the reality of those who are still in service.
Of course change has also come to the style of filming and acting...just one of the reasons Moore suffers in comparison to Connery is the abating of speeding up film to make violence seem more intense.
Well he did mention shape and look!
Well, he said "look/move convincingly", not just 'look'.
And Roger had shape and look, especially in a suit. He wasn't actually muscular but had genetics which gave him a powerful build. But, bless him, couldn't really throw a punch all that convincingly, as fun as it was to watch him (and I would imagine that he probably had double the amount of screen fights than any other Bond actor), and that's what we're talking about.
I hear you Gymkata, and you might be right. But I think EON will cast someone as different from Craig as possible. I agree a certain level of fitness will be required, but I think his physique will be more like Pattinson, Hiddleston, Page or Holland. I see this as a new trend, but it’s nascent. Bond could contribute substantially to the shift.
And let’s be honest, CR Craig and NTTD Craig are very different. The reliance on guns for action in the last film made the Brosnan years look tame by comparison.
Yeah I don't think NTTD was very representative of the Craig years in terms of action, in that its action wasn't... all that great. It did come down to just a lot of shooting, you're right.
in his Bond films, Roger resorted to breaking furniture over opponent's backs and such, but when he was Templar he engaged in freewheeling knockdown punch ups every episode, Lots of haymaker punches, like a character in Jack Kirby drawing.
watch from 0:50 to 1:25 in this montage
Here's two Saint scrap-ups that still stick in my memory as being more violent than anything he ever did as Bond:
watch him say "let me introduce myself" starting at 22:30 minutes into S01 E11 The Man Who Was Lucky
watch the way polite conversation falls apart at the 35 minute mark of S02 E12 The Well-Meaning Mayor
as for the most recent actor, I don't believe Craig needed to be bulked up like a TV wrestler to play James Bond. I found it a distraction, and as a spy he should be trying to be more discrete, not call extra attention to himself.
Not necessary directing this at you, but I found it amusing so many people probably agreed with Bond being more discrete and not calling extra attention to himself and then begging for Henry Cavill to play him. Cause he looks really discrete.
As Sir Rog said himself Bond is the worst secret agent ever as every barmen around the world knows him!…. So I mho the whole discreet thing is not really an issue with cinematic Bond. Have always been in the Cavill camp and think if anything he would maybe slim down.. thought he looked perfect for Bond in MI apart from the Tash😂… Huddleston to would be good.
I think Aiden Turner has the perfect physique for Bond. Muscular, toned but not overly so.
I would be happy with Turner or Cavill in the role, the latter, as I think he's the perfect cinematic choice in the way Moore and Brosnan were and I would quite like a return to this feel of 007 films after the heavy going of the DC era. I also like the tradition of the actor getting the gig that was almost chosen years before.
Having said all that, I think they'll still go a bit leftfield and will plump for a lesser know actor or one of mixed race. Rege-Jean Page is still favourite I reckon.
Craig was only really "bulked up" for CR. In the rest of his films he was basically lean and very fit. But at around 5'10" or 5'11" Craig just has one of those bodies that develops a lot of lean muscle mass when he trains. Bond does not need to look like a body builder (which really makes no sense) but does need to look fit and formidable (although "formidable" is more defined by how he actually handles fight scenes and action in general). Cavil would obviously not train for Bond the way he trains for Superman. If anything, Cavil would need to lean down. Interestingly, Cavil is not as big as you might think. He is only a hair taller than 6 ft and weighs around 175-180 lbs (which would certainly be fine for Bond). For Superman, he bulked up to around 200 lbs but the film makers did a great job of creating the illusion of him appearing to easily look like he is 6'2" and 220 lbs as Superman.
What we do need in a Bond actor is the ability to excel in action scenes, especially hand to hand fights. Craig was exceptional at fight scenes (of course, we also need to give credit to the fight choreographers and stunt people also). One of the things that stood out to me in watching the "Being Bond" documentary was seeing (without the benefit of camera angles or clever editing) how well Craig moved in the fight scene rehearsals.
I think it's going to come down to whom Barbara Broccoli personally finds magnetic and sexy. In"Being James Bond," she all but admits she cast Craig from a shot of him walking manfully down a hall in "Elizabeth." (I'm exaggerating but watch the interview and you'll see what I mean.) The fact that Cavill was a runner-up before suggests she likes him fine. And I agree with Gymkata that Henry does action in "M:I - Fallout" more convincingly than Cruise who's no slouch himself.
Couldn’t agree more!
I think Cavill's fighting style in the MI:Fallout bathroom fight reflected the personality of his character which was actually very effective. Cavill still looked pretty bulked up in that film (he was fresh off playing Superman). IMO as Bond, I would think the fight choreographers would give Cavill or any other new Bond character a style that would fit Bond; something a bit more clever and less bullish.
Also, Bond isn’t a spy really. He’s basically just a government-sponsored hitman.
Hiddleston though; no. I don’t mind them not having the build, but if they can’t carry themselves believably then I’m out, and the idea of him being an SAS guy in Kong was just silly.